The Trump/Russia connection thread

[Michael Murphy]

So far Muller has guilty pleas from Flynn and Gates 2 major players in the Trump campaign.  Other minor players, Cohen is clearly in some federal prosecutors crosshairs and Manafort facing serious charges with serious jail time.  No report, Muller is building a case block by block without a rush to judgement, he seems to be willing to follow this case through the twists and turns and as the convictions pile up  report or not the public can see the guilty line up in court.  The best part of this is that the players in this farce mosltly live in New York and if the Presidunce try’s to end this by firing Mueller or pardoning the key players the New York Attorney General can continue the case under New York law.  Trump has no power to pardon or control New York legal cases.  If Mueller is fired Schneiderman the New York AG can hire him to continue the investigation, the discovery phase of the Democratic lawsuit cane be used to fill in the gaps of the missing federal grand jury.  Is the Presidunce worried, just look at this weekends tweet storm, it appears late at night he is becoming more and more unhinged.

[Rerun]

The ones "guilty" have not admitted to Russian collusion.   It is like .... Bank Fraud .....  lying.....  They are trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip and it just isn't there. 

[Michael Murphy]

I’m sorry has Mueller released grand jury testimony about what Flynn or Gates has testified to.  At this point in the investigation Mueller is keeping his cards close to his chest.  I don’t know the final out come but if every one is innocent why are every one from the Republican side complaining, and Trump is trying to tweet it away.  If no collusion he is innocent but since every word out of the Presidunce mouth is either a lie or a exaggeration I will wait for the Mueller investigation to either clear or indict Trump.  As I read the cards it is not looking good for Trump.  However it is only time that will tell.  The strange thing it appears the only competent appointment in the Trump revolving door administration is Mueller.

[Rerun]

Yep, wait and see........

 

[Bill Peckham]

Once upon a time a foreign country refusing to cooperate with a U.S. judicial process in exchange for missiles would be an enormous story.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/world/europe/ukraine-mueller-manafort-missiles.html

[willowtreewren]

But, but, but, Bill. That has to be fake news! No self-respecting tRump supporter would trust anything from the NYT!

[Bill Peckham]

Oh come on - this is theatrical corruption now. Everyone from ATT to Russian Oligarchs have paid millions of dollars to a slush fund for Trump's personal use.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-cohen-took-cash-from-russian-oligarch-after-election?ref=home

ATT is confirming the numbers, as are some of the other Fortune 500 "donors".

Muller is a Marine combat hero, head of the FBI, unblemished record of service to this country. Believes in the rule of law.

Trump is an inept crook

[iolaire]

Think Eric Schneiderman leaked it to Stormy’s lawyers as he sent in his resignation papers?

[iolaire]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-questioned-payment-to-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen/2018/05/09/6ad3a7d6-538d-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?utm_term=.fba6cc049ef2
Separately, Korean Aerospace Industries confirmed to The Washington Post that it paid $150,000 to Cohen’s company, but spokesman Oh Sung-keon said that it was not aware of its connection to Trump.

The company said that it paid Cohen’s firm “to inform reorganization of our internal accounting system.”

I sure wonder how they found this expert on "internal accounting systems"?

[MooseMom]

Yeah, Cohen is pretty damn swampy.  Trump should fulfill his "drain the swamp" promise to us and give him up to Mueller.  This is really so third world. 

[kickingandscreaming]

I sure wonder how they found this expert on "internal accounting systems"?
   Report to moderator   Logged

Oh, haven't you heard.  Michael Cohen is a modern day DaVinci.  A true Renaissance man.

[Simon Dog]

The company said that it paid Cohen’s firm “to inform reorganization of our internal accounting system.”

That makes as much sense as Uranium One giving millions to the Clinton Foundation because they wanted to support its mission.

[Bill Peckham]

The company said that it paid Cohen’s firm “to inform reorganization of our internal accounting system.”

That makes as much sense as Uranium One giving millions to the Clinton Foundation because they wanted to support its mission.

Come on. What-about-ism is not a legal defense. I don't recall the what-about clause of the US Constitution, but the Constitution does mention bribery.

[Rerun]

It sounds like Cohen sold back doors to Trump.  I don't think Trump knew of that. 

[Bill Peckham]

This whole Cohen business is like a Sopranos story line.  So then we know you have to kick up or you will get whacked. Cohen wasn't whacked so he must have kicked up.

[iolaire]

I found this story interesting:
Documents Reveal How Russian Official Courted Conservatives In U.S. Since 2009
https://www.npr.org/2018/05/11/610206357/documents-reveal-how-russian-official-courted-conservatives-in-u-s-since-2009

[MooseMom]

Has anyone here seen the latest season of Homeland?

[Simon Dog]

This whole Cohen business is like a Sopranos story line. 

If you want to see a Soprano's story line, just look at home many people near the Clintons turned up dead

[MooseMom]

If you want to see a Soprano's story line, just look at home many people near the Clintons turned up dead

First of all, just how many people near the Clintons' DID turn up dead?  Were the police called?  Has anyone been arrested and charged?

Second of all, why do you reply to any and all posts about Trump with some goofy made-up Clinton story?  Clinton is not the President, so why the obsession with her?  Seriously, though, just look at Trump's lineup and tell me it doesn't look like the East Coast mob...Giuliani, The Mooch, Cohen, Mnuchin.  No "Midwestern values" there!  Now we have not only The Swamp but also The Mob!  Except that Scott Pruitt mope from Oklahoma who wants to spend your taxes on his special $45,000 sound proof room because he thinks he's so damn important.  I guess the rapidly diminishing EPA needs special protection.  These guys are all con artists.

There have, to date, been 23 indictments of people who are in Trump's sphere.  There will be more.  I'm sick of these people, these elites, who are exactly the types who Trump supporters claimed to want to be rid of.  I'm sick of their corruption and their pay to play BS.  And before you go and rabbit on about The Clinton Foundation, even YOU have to admit that these Trump hangers-on have taken this to a whole new level of brazenness.  They don't even TRY to hide it!  They're PROUD of taking us all for a ride (and making us pay the first class fare). 

Bill Peckham is right.  This "what about" type of "defense" is lazy.  I personally prefer the "What if that had been Obama?" game.  What if it had been Obama who paid a porn star to keep quiet?  What if it had been Obama who got his foreign policy from watching BET?  What if it had been Obama who had been elected as a result of an election everyone agreed had been tampered with by the Russians?  THE RUSSIANS!!!!!!! 

[Simon Dog]

I didn't say the Clintons did it, just that it is statistically interesting.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz5FHoRSe7F

I don't understand why paying a porn star to STFU is a problem.  Who is the victim?   When Clinton lied in the Paula Jones case, it was in an attempt to prevent her from winning a civil judgment, which is in a manner the equivalent of theft.   No Democrat was bothered by that, just as no Republican is bothered by Trump paying a sex partner for silence.  The bad person here is Daniels for going back on her deal.

[MooseMom]

Again, it's back to the Clintons.

To be fair, I did not live here during the Clinton years, so I can't comment on Paula Jones.  But it is my understanding that Clinton was impeached, right?

Paying a porn star to STFU before an election is OK with you?  You don't care that the President of the United States is a morally corrupt human being?  But besides even that, Trump DID lie about it.  But if even THAT doesn't matter, and it really doesn't seem to, the investigation as a whole follows the evidence, and that evidence is now pointing to Trump's PERSONAL LAWYER amassing a slush fund of Russian money to use to pay off other women with whom Trump had affairs in return for access to the President.

You have always pointed to pay to play as being particularly heinous.  I trust that now that Trump's circle of mobsters have been shown of doing exactly that, you'll be sufficiently outraged. 

It is now irrelevant that Daniels wants out of the deal.  The problem was that there was such a sordid deal in the first place, probably with multiple women.  Can you imagine the moral indignation had Obama acted in this way, cheating on his wife?  He would have been crucified by the GOP.  You know, the "pro-family" party.  The party that claims to have the moral authority.  The evangelicals.

But the problem isn't really Trump.  It's the voters who don't care, the apologists, the folks who will follow any path this man will carve out, who leave their morals behind and loves this man for being the way he is, for being the PERSON he is.  No one expects a President to be a perfect human being, but this man is so morally flawed in so many ways.  Does it not bother you that he is absolutely right when he says that he could kill a person in the middle of Fifth Avenue yet people would still follow him?  Yet Stormy Daniels is the "bad person" here?

[Paul]

You don't care that the President of the United States is a morally corrupt human being?

To be honest, if I lived in America my main desire would be for a president who did a good job of being a president. I'd take a morally corrupt good president over a morally pure bad president any day.

Although sadly Trump fails both tests - good luck with that!

[Simon Dog]

It's the voters who don't care, the apologists, the folks who will follow any path this man will carve out, who leave their morals behind and loves this man for being the way he is

It's an unsolvable problem when one either (a) has a choice of two corrupt candidates, as with the last Presidential election or (b) One has to choose between a corrupt candidate who supports their viewpoint on public policy or a morally pure one who goes against one's values.

For example, if there are a corrupt Democrat and a righteous Republican(*), do you really expect members of the FSA to vote for the Republican?

How would you choose between a candidate who patronized numerous hookers while married who wanted to increase dialysis funding or a morally pure candidate who wanted to cut dialysis to twice a week to save on expenses?

People will not vote against their self-interest.


* - Yeah, I know, many will consider this term an oxymoron

** - Free Stuff Army

Paying a porn star to STFU before an election is OK with you?  You don't care that the President of the United States is a morally corrupt human being?

Yes, because his sexual morality has no impact on how he will represent my interest, and he was not trying to defraud anyone in a litigation by perjuring himself.

Hardly anyone thinks Kennedy was a bad president because of his affairs.

[Michael Murphy]

Yes Clinton was impeached, not convicted.  However when he left office the Republican leadership that lead the  Impeachment charge were mostly out of office.  The one exception is Dennis Hasert later convicted of fraud in the paying off a a former student he molested while coaching high school wrestling. Compare this to the current presiDUNCE allowIng members of his administration to joke about Joh McCain dying of cancer.  McCains grandfather a carrier admiral during WWII died leading his carrier group after refusing to go back stateside for treatment.  His father a sub commander in WWII was CincPac when t he senator was flying in Vietnam Nam.   compare this to trump who developed bone spurs to avoid military service.  He plays golf frequently despite never having the bone spurs treated.  My admiration for the 3 generations of McCains is boundless, the only person in American History that would like  The disgrace we have for president is U S Grant who until now was the worst president in American history.

[MooseMom]

Kennedy wasn't a particularly good president.  We've canonized him because he was assassinated.

A morally corrupt candidate would not want to spend more on dialysis services because he is morally corrupt and would so rather see money going to himself and his cronies.  Trump is morally corrupt in more ways than one, and not only that, he surrounds himself with equally morally corrupt people.  I could overlook his sexual sordidness if he could manage to keep his promise about surrounding himself with "all the best people", but he can't even do that.  An Administration is more than just the President, yet he can't get out of his own way.

"Free Stuff Army" is a lazy term and doesn't take into account those who really need services, like dialysis.  Using this sort of terminology doesn't advance your point.

You are right in saying that people will not vote against their self-interest, but the problem is in defining just what your personal "self-interest" is.  If you're only self interest is being able to have all the guns you want, then I suppose you're right in saying that it doesn't matter just who Trump has screwed (in all senses of the word).  In fact, there are probably loads of men who think, "Well done!"

You keep saying that Hillary Clinton is corrupt, but there have never been any charges brought against her, despite the shedload of hours she spent testifying before Congress.  Just because you keep calling her corrupt doesn't mean she actually is.  But we had evidence of Trump's corruption even before he was nominated, so there's that...