The Trump/Russia connection thread

[Paul]

A morally corrupt candidate would not want to spend more on dialysis services because he is morally corrupt and would so rather see money going to himself and his cronies.

You are confusing "morally corrupt" with"financially corrupt". I have known several people in the "intercourse related" industries (prostitutes, pornstars, pimps, porn film makers, etc.) Most of them would give you the shirt off their back. Two of them were two of the most generous people I know. If either of them became president, America would become an amazingly nice place to live (although you would have to put up with a lot of very liberal laws concerning the sex industry).

[Michael Murphy]

What I personally find offensive about the free stuff army is two things, it ignores the tremendous number of people who receive goverment handout from farm states and farm subsidies to southern states benefitting from subsides power to south western states  sucking up subsides water.  Finally I Medicare pays for my dialysis I had private insurance but at 33 months I had to switch to Medicare.  Plus I paid taxes to Social Security and Medicare for 46 years with the understanding that benefits would be paid.  In New York every one thinks that the average welfare recipients are inner city residents the reality is the average recipient is a women with children living in upstate New York whose husband does not pay child support.  People complain about other people receiving aid from the goverment but raise hell when their benefits are cut, remember the next time you are on a interstate That tax dollars built them and you are riding free.

[MooseMom]

You are confusing "morally corrupt" with"financially corrupt". I have known several people in the "intercourse related" industries (prostitutes, pornstars, pimps, porn film makers, etc.) Most of them would give you the shirt off their back. Two of them were two of the most generous people I know. If either of them became president, America would become an amazingly nice place to live (although you would have to put up with a lot of very liberal laws concerning the sex industry.

No, I'm not confusing the two.  Someone who is "financially corrupt" leaves victims in his wake.  Someone who is "financially corrupt" is also, by definition, a thief or a tax dodger or a slum lord, and that in and of itself makes him "morally corrupt".  "Morals" has a wider meaning than just one that is sexual.  It encompasses behaviour and values.  Besides, Trump lied about the whole thing, about the affair itself, the deal itself, the existence of the payment itself, the source of the payment itself...everything.  He promised he'd never lie to us, that he'd never let us down.  He lied to us, and he let us down by doing so. 

It's just all so icky.  With social media and all, we are just getting TMI.  If he had other redeeming factors, perhaps I wouldn't be so bothered, but I can't help it.  I can usually find SOMEthing good about a person.  George Bush was not the brightest spark in the presidential toolbox, and he let himself be led into tragedy, but I never thought he was a bad human being.  I have yet to find something about Trump and the people who surround him that I can trust or feel good about, despite the distractions.  He was going to surround himself by all of the best people.  Name me one.

[MooseMom]

And thank you, Michael Murphy, for pointing out who the FSA really is. 

[Simon Dog]

I don't consider Medicare paid dialysis as "free stuff", since I paid a Medicare tax (a/k/a insurance premium) my entire working life, though it was only in recent years that it was broken apart from social security on the statement to remove the earnings cap on the Medicare premium.

As to Trump - The way he screwed people over in business tells the story of character.   He would contract for an expensive service and, when it was complete, would make up some excuse like "your worker picked his nose on the job" and basically say "Sign this release accepting 80% of the agreed amount or spend a few years fighting my attorneys at your expense.".   Definitely a dangerous character to do business with.

Plus I paid taxes to Social Security and Medicare for 46 years with the understanding that benefits would be paid.

I do not consider you a soldier in the FSA.

Kennedy wasn't a particularly good president.  We've canonized him because he was assassinated.

And because he won the Cuban missile showdown.    Though, one can argue the bay of pigs gave Cuba the incentive to seek out Soviet nukes.

[Bill Peckham]

Just to say that another word for free stuff from public entities is investment. If giving someone a phone saves ten dollars in social services for every dollar spent that's a good investment.

[Michael Murphy]

The basic foundation of the US communication policy from the 1930`s till today has been subsidized local service. From 1930`s till the 1990`s the long distance network provided a tremendous amount of money to pay the cost of the local network.  Since then the focus has been on subsidized cell phone service since it is substantial cheaper then landlines.  The cell phone networks paid enormous amounts of money for radio bandwidth in addition to that money they  are required to provide free or subsidized phones to the poor.  It is just the cost of doing business for them and is factored in to the rate base.  The biggest single cost to the cell phone industry has been the absorbed cost of a subsidized new phone every couple of years for subscribers.  The cost of the subsidized cell phones has been the difference between American cell rates and the rest of the world where you buy your phone from the manufacturer at full price.

[Simon Dog]

required to provide free or subsidized phones to the poor.

Just another transfer payment to the FSA.   My wife worked in a hospital and sees may patients with two phones on their belt - the Obama phone we are forced to pay for and the fancier one they buy.

Just to say that another word for free stuff from public entities is investment.

Whenever a politician or Democrat starts using the term "investment" it's time to hold on to your wallet.

The biggest single cost to the cell phone industry has been the absorbed cost of a subsidized new phone every couple of years for subscribers.

T-Mobile is getting away from that model.   They no longer offer "free" cell phones in return for a contract, but offer interest-free financing as part of the cell bill.

[Michael Murphy]

Phone service for the poor is not new, in fact in most large cities police phone boxes and fire alarms have been eliminated since subsidized phone service for the poor. As a side benefit crank calls are more easily traced saving substantial money for urban areas for over 70 years this has been the policy for every American administration. 

[Paul]

The biggest single cost to the cell phone industry has been the absorbed cost of a subsidized new phone every couple of years for subscribers.  The cost of the subsidized cell phones has been the difference between American cell rates and the rest of the world where you buy your phone from the manufacturer at full price.

I just get a sim card and a 'phone separately. Can you not do that in America? It works out a hell of a lot cheaper. (about half the price).

[MooseMom]

Anything phone related is much more complicated and much more expensive than it is in Europe.  It is such a con.

[Bill Peckham]

I may have to rename this thread The Trump/Russia/SA/Emirates connection thread

https://nyti.ms/2IV6EpU  Trump Jr. and Other Aides Met With Gulf Emissary Offering Help to Win Election

The President's TV lawyer, Giuliani, has been saying lately there is nothing unusual about accepting help, no matter the source; I'm sure the denials in this first reporting will be slowly walked back over the coming weeks and months, as have been EVERY denial by the Trump campaign and Trump administration re: the russia meeting.

BTW it is not ordinary and usual to accept or encourage election help from foreign sources.

[Michael Murphy]

The bottom line, accessing files on a computer that you are not an authorized user is a felony.  The Russian breaking to the democratic servers was a felony.  Participating in the release of those files also a felony.  If the Trump campaign helped in any way a felony.  The release of those emails was the result of a felonious actions.  Now as the Mueller investigation is obviously beginning to identify the players in this felony the Presidunce and his minion Giuliani are becoming more panicked in their attacks on every body in an attempt to deflect the investigation.  Fake news I think not, just a fake Presidunce.
















Sp mod Cas

[iolaire]

Nothing to see here
https://qz.com/1297543/paul-manafort-tried-to-hide-from-the-feds-using-encrypted-whatsapp-but-he-forgot-about-icloud/

[Rerun]

Hillary using a Server for government emails that was Personal, and erasing 30,000 emails after you have been told not to erase them is a Felony. 

[willowtreewren]

Hillary using a Server for government emails that was Personal, and erasing 30,000 emails after you have been told not to erase them is a Felony.

Using her personal server is not a felony. Also:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/09/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-deleted-33000-em/

Where did you hear this felony claptrap? It just ain't so.

[Michael Murphy]

A previous Secretary of State used a private server for the 4 years he served.  But I guess that don’t count.  The real culprit was the tech support who allowed a out side mail server on their network not once but twice.  The other over looked fact is the State Department Mail Servers we’re comprised by Russian intelligence there is no evidence that Hillaries server was hacked.

[MooseMom]

Scott Pruitt's existence is a felony.   

[kickingandscreaming]

Scott Pruitt's existence is a felony.

I'd call it a crime against humanity.

[MooseMom]

Assuming he's human.

Maybe he thinks he has some super powers since he seems to need a $45,000 super secure phone box. 

[Michael Murphy]

What I find amusing is the only competent and honest person in the Trump administration is Robert Mueller. 

[Paul]

So the G7 is in session. It used to be the G8 but Russia was thrown out. Trump turns up and immediately starts arguing that Russia should be allowed back in. Do we need any more proof that he is behoven to Putin?

Oh, and is it time we revived the phrase "Unamerican activities"?

[Simon Dog]

Who knows, it may become the G6.

[MooseMom]

OMG, since when does an American president slam the Canadians while cozying up to the Russians and the North Koreans? 

Trump is giving Russia exactly what Putin has been dreaming of...the breakup of the Western Alliance.  To think that it will be an American president that destroys democracy is just harrowing and horrific.

It is extraordinary and baffling.  But now I understand why Paul Manafort was Trump's campaign manager.  I mean, talk about felonies!  Manafort has been indicted for witness tampering and may well be facing prison time.

Can you imagine the outrage if Obama's campaign manager had been indicted for witness tampering???  But no, it was all about Hillary's emails.

Thank goodness Trump has surrounded himself with all the best people, right?

Something is very wrong here when we have a president who is musing about pardoning himself.

But you know what?  I don't blame Trump.  We all knew who he was from the beginning.  I blame Congress.  They are the ultimate enablers.

Even Abraham Lincoln saw that if we were to cease to exist as a free nation, it would be because "we must ourselves be its author and finisher.  As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide".

We've handed Trump the weaponry, and we're letting him play with it.

#sad

[kickingandscreaming]

I don't think I've ever been so depressed (and disgusted).  And I've been depressed before.