Slowing down online

[Rerun]

This is a "Temporary" ban on those 7 countries because they were already approved by Congress under Obama.  I think Saudi Arabia is on the next list.  the order targets people from countries originally listed by the Obama administration as terrorist hotbeds -- Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.

325,000 in a 24 hour period were let in our country.  109 were detained?  What is wrong with that?  How do these people who are protesting even know to go to the airports to protest and have time to make all these signs?  They are paid and this was planned long before. 

This is going to be a long 8 years.

[Simon Dog]

This whole refugee ban thing seems to have been poorly thought out with no analysis of unintended consequences, with a lot of people already cleared getting shafted.

On the other hand, I suggest a mathematical exercise:

Using historical data:

Estimate p(m) - Probability a Muslim male in the US between ages of 20 and 40 will commit a terrorist act
Estimate p(n) - Probablity a non-Muslim make in the US between ages of 20 and 40 will commit a terrorist act
Calculate R=p(m)/p(n).   Observe if it is significantly > 1.
Apply a student-T test to both datasets to determine the statistical significance of any difference between p(m) and p(n).

[Rerun]

It only takes 1.

[Michael Murphy]

It may not last 8 years, the tariff trump is calling for would effect Americans more than Mexicans those tariff will raise prices in the US until the manufacturing is returned to the Us.  Plus if the Mexicans do what most often happens in this case they will put a dollar for dollar tariff on American products being sold in Mexico.  currently 40 % of Mexicans imports come from the USThis would shift Mexican imports to come from non taiffed places like Europe or china.  Economists estimate 6 million jobs are involved in the trade with Mexico.  Finally if you price Mexico out of the market the jobs will return to America but most of them will go to manufacturing robots.   There is reason to panic,  if this moronic action continues the out come may be worse then the last Great Recession.

[Deanne]

It only takes 1.

Did anyone else see the picture of the little girl in handcuffs at an airport? She looked to be about 5 years old. She must've been the one, right?

[Simon Dog]

Many dialysis products (solutions, line sets, etc. ) are made in Mexico.   Definitely room for an unintended consequence here.

[Charlie B53]

I believe we can all agree to the fact that 'War is Hell'.  No doubt about that.

Religious War, even worse.

When you have two or more factions each declaring 'My God is Greater than Your God'.  It gets downright ugly, FAST.

Add to that the mid-set that there is no greater glory than to die for your God, and the violence escalates extremely rapidly.  With no Fear of Death, some of these people are willing, eager even, to sacrifice themselves in attempt to kill whom ever they perceive as the enemy.

Granted again that only a percentage of any Religion is so Radicalized as to be willing to commit suicide.

The question is, "How do you determine exactly WHO those persons are?"

Faced with mass migration, how do you vet with 100% accuracy all of these people?

This is going to take much serious study, planning, before implementation. 

Are YOU willing to adopt some of these people, have them live in YOUR home, prior to this Vetting?

If not you, then Who?

I have to admit that I do not have the answers, but I believe I do have a handle on the question.   I just wish I had an answer.

[Simon Dog]

People get misled by numbers, citing "we have home grown terrorists too" (think McVeigh).     Think of it by example:

Pneumonia kills far more people than Ebola, so one could call that the "more dangerous disease".  That being said, consider which would pose a greater threat - a plane load of persons suffering from pneumonia arriving at a busy airport or a plane load of Ebola carriers.

[Rerun]

Ebola...    

[Simon Dog]

Ebola...   

Ricoloa.....

[Michael Murphy]

During WW II on the west coast the US government confiscated all of the assets of Japanese Americans and locked them up in Concetration camps.  This was done to protect real Americans from those Jap spy's and Saboteurs.  Funny though in Hawaii with a larger Japanese American population during the war there was no sabotage and after the war it was discovered that the only espionage in Hawaii was done by the Japanese diplomats assigned to the Councilate. 
This is one of the most shameful acts in American History.  What Trump is doing against Moslems is the same thing.  The American Moslem Community is the best defense we have against terrorism., alienate them and we become much less safe. 

[nursey66]

, Trump should not make it to the summer at this rate !!  When are the Washington Congressmen going to stand up to him ?? Oh, that's right , they don't want to get "fired " by Trump. They are so scared of that bully its pathetic .

[MooseMom]

The question is, "How do you determine exactly WHO those persons are?"

Faced with mass migration, how do you vet with 100% accuracy all of these people?

This is going to take much serious study, planning, before implementation. 

Are YOU willing to adopt some of these people, have them live in YOUR home, prior to this Vetting?

If not you, then Who?

I have to admit that I do not have the answers, but I believe I do have a handle on the question.   I just wish I had an answer.

There is no "mass migration" of Muslims into the US.

Anyone can google "vetting process for Syrian refugees" and can read how onerous it already is.  "Extreme vetting" is already here.  This administration has not outlined what their new turbo-extreme measures will be.  No one knows what the hell is going on.

No, I would not be willing to let in ANY refugee into my home without some vetting, but if a refugee family from Syria is already here, that means they've not only already been extremely vetted but that actually will continue to be vetted, at least for the first year that they are here, so yes, I would certainly allow that family into my home.  It would be the American thing to do!

I'm not sure what the "question" is.  Is it "what do we do to combat terrorism on our own soil?"  The answer to that question is NOT to ban all Syrian refugee families for an undetermined period of time.

THIS is not the answer:

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/syrian-family-denied-entry-sues-trump-administration/PARAMS/article/42659

[Simon Dog]

  What Trump is doing against Moslems is the same thing.  The American Moslem Community is the best defense we have against terrorism., alienate them and we become much less safe.

While the merits of the Trump action are debatable (I think it was not well thought out and should have been more limited in scope), it is NOT the same thing.   In the case of the Japanese interment, US Citizens were deprived of their freedom and property.   Nothing in Trumps orders restricts the ability of US Citizens, naturalized or natural born, of any religion, to travel freely or live wherever they want.

[MooseMom]

Simon Dog, you are correct.  It's NOT the same thing.

However, saying that it was not well thought out is a pretty vast understatement, don't ya think?  I mean, no one in security or immigration were notified, and airline/airport officials overseas were caught completely off guard.  No one knew whether or not to allow this person or that family on to an airplane bound for the US.  Even Republican leaders were not notified; some of their staff secretly helped draft the EO but had to sign a confidentiality clause so that their bosses wouldn't know.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-immigration-congress-order-234392

I kept hearing both here on IHD and in the media that liberals were taking Trump literally but not seriously and that his supporters were taking him seriously but not literally.  Perhaps we should all have taking him both literally AND seriously.

I keep coming back to my original question that I have asked on three different discussion threads, and that is, "What can you all tell me that will ease my fears about having a Trump administration?".  No one has answered, which is in and of itself a very pointed and illustrative reply.

Trump supporters were often quoted as wanting Trump to 'blow up everything so that we can start over".  Many claimed they were excited by the entertainment value of chaos.  Chaos is what we have now.  There is no discussion about economic policy.  All of this noise about banning people from countries that have never killed anyone here on US soil hasn't yet brought any new jobs. 

Is there anyone here who thinks that having Steve Bannon in the White House is a good thing for our nation?  If yes, why?  What does he add?

Before the election, I said that I was not fearful only of Trump but also of who he will put in positions of power.  Witness Steve Bannon.  Remember, he's a big Goldman Sachs guy.  Great for "the forgotten people". 

[iolaire]

It only takes 1.

As in only one Canadian Trump supporter?

[iolaire]

I do think that constantly being online and watching TV is not healthy.  I'm not a TV watcher but from twitter I followed the protests on Saturday and Sunday.  Unfortunately I don't think we can ignore the major upheaval happening in our country.  If we ignore it we run the risk of being complicit in something bad.

[MooseMom]

Very well said Charlie, I couldn't agree more with you. The massive collective hysteria that now exists over every word or deed by the new President Trump is beyond any measure of rational or sane. So far, he is working very hard to deliver on the promises he has made & he is working very hard towards this.

Does a King rule your little mystery country?  Methinks you do not remembereth the protestations wrought by Congress over the Obama Presidential Executive Orders.  Why doth Congress not protest now?  Dost thou not know, oh fair maiden of a far and distant land?

My apologies, Athena, for this snarky post of mine.  I'd delete it, but I don't think that's allowed on IHD, so I'll publically apologize, instead.

I'm just really worried.  When Bush was elected, I was living in the UK, and the Brits were furious.  You would be astonished to know how often I was stopped and either quizzed or admonished by people when they heard my American accent.  The anti-American sentiment at that time was very unsettling for me.  I'd never lived in the US under a Bush administration, and I was dealing with CKD and an autistic child, so many of his deeds went relatively unnoticed by me. 

Trump is just so different from anything we've ever seen before, and many people are worried, afraid or just simply confused.  I'm one of those.  I can't find anyone, not one single person, who offers me any reassurance, and I am just scared.  I know that might sound stupid to you, but living here in the US at this moment in time is sorta creepy.

So, I apologize for taking my fears out on you.  I've gone back and looked at your posts from when you first joined, and it made me remember that we renal patients are all in this together.  I'm sure my country will survive, but I'm just not sure in what kind of shape it will be in.

 

[Charlie B53]

Whiners are going to Whine no matter what Trump says or does.  spoiled brats that didn't get their way and expect to fit a fit until they do.  It isn't going to work.  They may have gotten away with type of behavior with their Parents that didn't bother to teach these Children to Respect others, to learn to be a part of a Team, to get off their collective Butts and get out and Vote. Parading in the street is not the way to promote change anywhere except to disrupt society enough to get the attention of the Police to come in and restore Law and Order.  Idiots.

No matter what the Trump Administration does, the Sun will still come up tomorrow.  There may be clouds blocking the light, like in Seattle, but People will still get up and go to whatever jobs they have, do an honest day's work, and go home to their Families.  Because that is what Honest People do.

We don't have the time to Parade in the street protesting, leaving a huge mess for the sanitation department to come clean up afterwards, as spoiled children do.

We Work.  We pay our Bills.  We save what we can.  We Plan ahead.  When Election Day comes we get to the Polls and VOTE.  And when the Polls close we live with our choices and go on.  We do NOT protest and complain that the results 'should have been' anything else other than what they are.

Stop bitching, get over it, get on with your life.  Start planing on what YOU can do to better yourself.  What can YOU do to better you community? Your Country?

How can you even begin to think all those Career Politicians that have drug this Country down will actually do anything to improve the Country?  All they care about is how much taxes they can funnel into their Bank accounts.  They do not care one bit about the People.

[Simon Dog]

However, saying that it was not well thought out is a pretty vast understatement, don't ya think?

Smooth understatement is part of my suave style.

[MooseMom]

Parading in the street is not the way to promote change anywhere except to disrupt society enough to get the attention of the Police to come in and restore Law and Order.  Idiots.

People who paraded in the street to promote the right of women to vote or who paraded during the Civil Rights movement would disagree vehemently with this statement.

[Michael Murphy]

I don't think it's whining to point out that Drumph the Idiot is as crazy as a loon.  Every 8 years a wave of moronic voters vote in a republican president who precedes to destroy the economy.  Each of thes administrations leave the economy in a smoldering ruin. It happened in 90-92, and 2007-2008. This time it appears to be worse.  In 2003 when bush the lesser invaded Iraq I stated the invasion was going to be a unmitigated disaster I as loudly accused of whining and of being unpatriotic by my coworkers.  Turned out I was not whining but merely right.  One more time the right is in charge and the economy and our allies are in danger so are American beliefs.

[iolaire]

Whiners are going to Whine no matter what Trump says or does.  spoiled brats that didn't get their way and expect to fit a fit until they do.

I hope you will at least admit that many people spent 8 years winning about Obama.  If so I will admit that I found everyone's fears of Obama unfounded.

[Charlie B53]

Parading in the street is not the way to promote change anywhere except to disrupt society enough to get the attention of the Police to come in and restore Law and Order.  Idiots.

People who paraded in the street to promote the right of women to vote or who paraded during the Civil Rights movement would disagree vehemently with this statement.

That I recall, these People did NOT physically attack and harm anyone.  Nor did they leave a trail of trash and destruction in their wake.

They held Peaceful, Orderly  Protest to garner News reports, exposure to promote their cause.

HUGE difference.

[MooseMom]

That I recall, these People did NOT physically attack and harm anyone.  Nor did they leave a trail of trash and destruction in their wake.

They held Peaceful, Orderly  Protest to garner News reports, exposure to promote their cause.

HUGE difference.

 

As you "recall"  What, were you there? 

Where have you seen wholescale violence at any current rally?  Yes, there were people at first who were breaking windows, etc, but people who do that are not interested in any real cause.  They organize, mask up and then create chaos.  There's always someone like that.  So, I'm not sure what you mean.