Sweat based therapy to treat or delay progression of kidney failure

[raymond keller]

While I am not and have never been on dialysis I know a lot of people that have been. I have been researching how sweat might be used to be an adjunctive treatment for or delay progression of kidney failure. I was convinced enough that I started a company that is looking to scientifically evaluate whether this is true. There are found a few trials, some others have mentioned on this site, and they all had positive results. The citations are on my company's website http://www.ThirdKidney.net.. I have also read many of the posts on this website and know that there are promotors and detractors, some who even use sweat based therapies. My rationale - Let's do quality research and find out.

I would encourage you to visit our website and look at the science. There is an article that I recently authored that was published in a peer reviewed international journal using a rat model of renal failure. The project was funded by the American Society of Nephrology. If there is enough popular demand we would likely be able to post the research articles to the website and have discussions about them. A sort of "virtual journal club."

We can't recruit people for studies yet, but are actively fundraising to be able to get things started. If you want to donate you can visit https://www.gofundme.com/2cxjgdva

[Rerun]

When I have too much fluid on I may go to a Sauna and sweat some off or go sit in my HOT car for a little while while the sweat rolls off.  It amazing how much water I get off.  I'm sure some other electrolytes come out also... salt, potassium etc.

Different stages of CKD may benefit, but when you need dialysis... you need dialysis.  It regulates the electrolytes in your blood to keep you alive between treatments.  Too much potassium will stop your heart and too little potassium will stop your heart.

I will look at your site but I'm thinking you may be playing with fire.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Sounds interesting. You might be interested in this if you don't know of it already.
http://www.townsendletter.com/May2016/kidney0516.html

It is written by a naturopath who is in dialysis herself.

And this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24060101  Hot bath for the treatment of chronic renal failure.

[Charlie B53]

I have no doubt that it may be beneficial for 'some people' that sweating may delay a measure of kidney degradation.

However, in my case my severe sweating combined with the long term use of nsaids may have accelerated my kidney failure.

I am a large person, with some weight but not morbidly obese.  I was strong, lifting and carrying weight as far as needed with no problem.  Weekends and Holidays I was out working in the yard, garden, or hiking along a riverbank fishing.  Winters hiking mountains through the snow hunting for big furry animals.

Sweating was a given.  Nsaids were a requirement to be able to stay active.

Even after I stopped the nsaids the kidneys continued to fail, until finally I started PD.  That was near 20%, I am now closer to 4%   another 16% failure in three years.

And I am STILL sweating.  LOTS.

Good Luck with the study.  I hope that it may help some, but it is far too late for me.

Take Care,

Charlie B53

[raymond keller]

Sounds interesting. You might be interested in this if you don't know of it already.
http://www.townsendletter.com/May2016/kidney0516.html

It is written by a naturopath who is in dialysis herself.

And this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24060101  Hot bath for the treatment of chronic renal failure.

Thanks Kickingandscreaming. I was not aware of this article. Thank you for sharing. I will add it to the list of references on my website though. I read it and looked at her reference list. It seems that she and I are familiar with many of the same authors. She is also in the same neck of the woods as I am (she is in Connecticut and I am in Maine)

[raymond keller]

When I have too much fluid on I may go to a Sauna and sweat some off or go sit in my HOT car for a little while while the sweat rolls off.  It amazing how much water I get off.  I'm sure some other electrolytes come out also... salt, potassium etc.

Different stages of CKD may benefit, but when you need dialysis... you need dialysis.  It regulates the electrolytes in your blood to keep you alive between treatments.  Too much potassium will stop your heart and too little potassium will stop your heart.

I will look at your site but I'm thinking you may be playing with fire.

 

Thanks Rerun. I have read many anecdotal reports, even on this site, of people who use their cars to lose fluid. You are also correct that sodium and potassium are excreted in the sweat. Sodium is always hypotonic to serum while potassium is almost always hypertonic to serum (2-3 times higher). Your concern about potassium is spot on. Part of the research parameters is for important electrolytes losses like potassium to be monitored.

If you don't mind, I have two questions for you. How long are your sessions, and does your dialysis prescription get altered or do you notice less interdialytic weight gain after you use the sauna?

[Rerun]

I go to in center Nocturnal dialysis.... so that is 3 nights a week for 8 hour sessions.  I am on a 2k.

It would depend on the outside temperature and what time of day but when it starts rolling off me I get out.  It makes a difference for my fluid maintenance.  I don't do it a lot, but if it is a weekend and I'm a little uncomfortable with fluid I'll go get rid of some.  I don't recommend it.  It is just my way of cheating the system.

[PrimeTimer]

I don't know if sweating delays the need to start dialysis but I do know that my husband sweats more since starting dialysis. Being diabetic and on insulin, that was new to him. Use to be that if I ever saw him sweat I feared he had a fever. Now during hot summers I see him sweat but fear he isn't drinking enough water to replace what he's lost because of his ESRD and being on dialysis. You'd think there has to be a balance. I know that if you become too dehydrated (due to illness for instance) your veins can collapse and that is very dangerous. While I somewhat understand the dangers of fluid overload I wish we better understood how to balance fluid intake as to not become dehyrdrated, either. 

[kickingandscreaming]

my husband sweats more since starting dialysis. Being diabetic and on insulin, that was new to him.

I would also be concerned about possible hypoglycemia.

[raymond keller]

Thanks Prime Timer and Kickingandscreaming.

For the balance between dehydration and fluid overload - that is exactly what I want to study. As for sweating indicating fever (this is my rumination as an almost 4th year medical student, not medical advice... yet) when people start to sweat to thermoregulate it is a normal process. That is why we measure core temperature. If sweating has commenced at a higher core body temperature than "normal" we begin to worry. We also worry about sweating at a normal body temperature that is due to an activation of the sympathetic nervous system. But it is interesting that your husbands body might have made some chemical changes to sweat out toxins naturally. I look at this as an analogue to diabetics having polyuria. They compensate by getting rid of glucose in their urine. And now we have medications that do the same thing.

And for hypoglycemia... Glucose is excreted in human sweat. So I share the concern about hypoglycemia. Yet another reason for therapy to be done under medical supervision.