MY CKD STAGE 3-4 VEGETARIAN VLP DIET

[MuddyGurl]

NEWBIE HERE. I am being very proactive in stalling the failure of my sole kidney.  Recent drop in eGFR from 32 last summer to 26 NOW is scary, as I feel well, and have been losing weight on a Low Carb Healthy Fats (ketogenic) diet.  Being of a scientific mind I am am altering my diet to do the best I can to save my kidney based on exhaustive  science research. And faith counts too, I am seeking a peaceful mind with meditation, calming music and prayer to "Let go and Let God" after I have done all my best.  No matter your beliefs or non-belief,  having a peaceful mind is an advantage in your survival no matter what may come.

1. Plant based diet. 2 Added Magnesium 3 Consume Hemp seed protein and eggs

1. I removed all meat, even fish from my diet.
- Several studies show meat waste is not removed by the kidneys,  further causing harm. I ate only grass fed organic as possible, not good enough.
- Vegetarian or Plant based (the new PC term)  allows protein BUT spares the kidney very hard work
- Dr. Walser, of "Coping with Kidney disease", was a  Johns Hopkins powerhouse proponent of VLP diet + amino acids to save the kidneys
- Calwood Nutritionals scientist who developed AAs  for Walserin 1980s has saved his own life >20 years on a VLP diet+AA
- now AAs are available very cheaply from any HFS- I'm still researching their quality for use in my diet.

2. I am low on Magnesium- 4th most necessary mineral, affects 800 chemical functions in the body
- MDs know almost nothing about it, prescribe calcium channel blockers and statins when natural Mg is the answer.
DEFICT of Mg means:  Leg/foot Cramps, Heart cramps (CVA risk), skin itchiness, weakness/fatique, calcium imbalance (too much good dairy means further  imbalance, we need 1:1 ratio in body, but only get 5:1 [5 Calcium to 1Mg.]

-MUST be added as a supplement because even organic veggies are NOT getting it in the soil. Farms must add rock dust to soil to raise Mg.
-80% men & 70% women are too low in Mg daily, <200.  Basic need is 320 W, 400M- but 700 is IDEAL- supplement only way

ADDING MAGNESIUM:
-From least to most helpful-
-Epsom Salts soaking in bath or foot bath- some transdermal absorption
-MgOxides- OTC pill- jusy 4% absorption- can cause loose bowels- this is how Mg dumps too much of a dose
-Mg citrate, chelaates- maybe 20% absorption
-Oil sprays of pure Mg oil onto skin 2x day- Excellent for CKD, safer
-MG in pico-meter liguid- added to drinking water-- ONLy method for full delivery, and SAFEST for CKD!!
KIDNEY DISEASE precludes taking OTC without MD approval
-the immediate reaction if you take brands: SloMag pill form (Mg + calcium) or MagOx pill, or even Epsom Salts bath is loose bowels.
-meaning it travels to fast thru the colon and removes constipation- since many of us HAVE constipation this can be a benefit
but you aren't getting the dose you need to help. ( I tried 1/2 slowMag pill and yes, it works that way!  Some people are so sensitive even a soak bath will  cause loose bowels.
- SPRAY oil on or massage of <1oz into skin (very relaxing) for slow transdermal absorption without risk of lose bowels. Safer for CKD patients.
-Dr. Deans pico-meter liquid ReMag product gives the needed dose by adding 1/4-1/2 tsp in a quart of water, drunk thru the day.
-ADDING Mg gave me almost immediate RELIEF of severe muscle cramping..after 3 days of oil spray I noticed a big difference in the AM, when crams most occur.
-I am in my first week of using the ReMag liquid, and keeping track of how I feel.

3. HEMP SEED PROTEIN
-I am a amazed at how wonderful this COMPLETE protein is. Hemp Seeds have all 9 essential amino acids…just like meat. Plus fiber & needed Omega-3
- Hemp seeds - just 3 tbl of hulled seeds (TASTES like walnut meat-mild, sweet) give me 50%!!!!! of my  ADA Mg…so 2 servings is 100% of the lower ada 320 dose. Eating other foods and using Mg supplement get me to the high dose.
-Seeds are imported from Canada, are organically grown, you can buy in the hull (crunchy like pumpkin seeds but tiny like rice grains) or hulled
-Calories are 180,  for 10 gr Protein, 1 gr carb, 15 gr fat, [also 50% of phosphorous, so don't over eat with CKD]
-I sprinkle on salads, add to steamed veggies, soups, in baked foods, and in smoothies. Or eat by hand!
-I eat them daily as my main source of protein along with fresh eggs from local farm.

+++++++++++++++++
My daily diet is ~1400-1600 calories. I am slowly lowering protein from 60 to 35. OnceI get to 35 I will take amino acids daily to avoid muscle waste.
I do have coffee with heavy cream and butter, and cocoa powder (also high in magnesium) High fat coffee kicks muy day off with fat burning and I am not hungry for hours after.
I eat a HB egg, or have two, chopped with avocado, real mayo, added almonds (high in Mg)  and Romaine lettuce to make egg salad 'wraps'
I scrambled eggs in butter, and use shredded cheese, and/or sprinkle hemp seeds on top.
I SPREAD my protein over the day..I do not eat 20-30 gr at one time. This allows the kidney to handle the waste products slowly.
I use the 15 DaVita  recommended vegetables- broccoli, carrots, cabbage, kale, spinach ( 6 % RDA per cup -high in Mg) zucchini, cukes,  tomatoes, AND BERRIES-low in sugar: Blueberry, strawberry, raspberry, blackberries (1 cup of berries run 16 carbs, BUT you only need 1/4-1/2 cup for smoothies.

Having berries in heavy whipped cream with stevia natural sweetener is a favorite 'dessert.'
SMOOTHIES- I make a huge blender full- and keep in the fridge, have 6-8 oz at a time. Shakes have: Kale/spinich/romaine as the thickener, no veggie taste. I add hemp seed or Warrior Force brand hemp protein powder in my shake- (2 tbl is 16 gr protein)- very clean-pure  made product, unprocessed no additives. Alos added are: Flaxseed-ground fresh, 1/2 c berries, stevia sweetener.
I also add Full fat  Bulgarian yogurt to the shake, or eat plain or with berries as lunch or dinner.
I avoid all low fat/no fat foods. period.

Cauliflower is a superfood..ground up in a blender, dry like flour , mix in an egg, and patted into a pizza crust, or baked, with added cheese and marinara sauce for dipping for "cheesy breadsticks". It is also ground fine  and whipped  with cream for "mock-tatoes"..I like it as it is with butter and cheese.
Chia seeds are very high in fiber, antioxidants, protein and Omega 3. We get too much Omege 6..so need to balance, use in salads, eat raw, very tiny-one negative is they stick between teeth!!  Keep dental floss sticks nearby. But MUCH BETTER than adding Benefiber, which adds carbs.. Chia has 6 gr fiber for 1 gr carb- @ 1 tbl.


Hippocrates  "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food"


 

[PaulBC]

Back when I was working on a diet spreadsheet, I used the USDA nutrient database. It's extensive and includes things that I think of as new (i.e. never saw them in stores as a kid in the 70s) such as flaxseed and quinoa. It includes supplements such as various forms of whey protein. It includes foods I would never eat, such as "CARIBOU,BONE MARROW,RAW (ALASKA NATIVE)". (Funny story, I had a script to find the best sources of low phos protein and "SEAL,RINGED,LIVER (ALASKA NATIVE)" came up; I think the phos entry is probably in error in this case, but I'm not planning to find out.)

Interestingly, there is no entry for hemp anywhere in this DB that I can find. You can see for yourself: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods

I'm not a hemp promoter of any kind, and I'm skeptical that it's better than other seed sources of protein. But I have seen it on sale many places include Costco. Is there some regulation barring USDA from posting nutrition data for hemp? I mean, I am not inclined to believe hemp conspiracy theory, but I do not see any other explanation in this case.

[MuddyGurl]

I'm skeptical that it's better than other seed sources of protein.   like which?  if you did a comparison then you might have a different answer.

uuuhhhhh STUPIDITY  is the only answer I see, and the newness of this food to the US crazy blockhead market.

Remember tis is the same USDA pushing a high grain  'pyramid', now "plate" on everyone…even diabetics who have severe insulin problems..answer-?- use more insulin. really?

If I turned down a protein EQUAL to meat in essential amino acids, and better for me than soy waste…I'd be the stupid one. But that's me.

people dont realize the TREE/lumber lobby in the US KILLED the hemp plant industry in 1923 with a law banning it because it competed so badly with tree products. ( this is NOTHING to do with pot smoking hemp)

If you look at all  lobbies in the US it is their power, from Milk to Soy to ANY lobby, who wants to kill the competition..and we blindly go along without question?
(in the 80's Soy waste from animal feed was brilliantly turned into "health food" to compete with the Milk lobby..right..now boy babies are born with inferior testosterone, and sterility issues from Moms guzzling only soy  milk, little girls, and MEN gain breast tissue from over drinking soy milk.  This is safe?  DO ANY search on line and find hard studies that reveal this. (fortunately for the adults stopping consumption reverts their bodies back to normal, and breast growth reduces.)  but brining on early menses for girls?

People are well meaning, and TRUST their FDA, feeding soy milk to children , daily, for a decade, thinking it safe?  now we know it is not.
 
The fear that Hemp seeds have Cannibis effect?    Nope.  But I's not my job to convince you.

The  Dutch word CANVAS comes from cananbis-- for sailing cloth, it is the strongest material for ship use since sailing began! , ALL ropes were hemp <1930s…and so the tree lobby destroyed that product too.   You live in the same country that let DR Ancel Keyes- who had the president's ear, and altered the NATIONS dietary habits, and PROMOTED the agri-grain lobby, with not one test or study to show that a high grain diet is good for humans. This has been claimed to be the biggest experiment on the pubic in our history.

Looking at where we are  today in sugary high carb, processed foods we have perverted AMericans from vegetables and meats and unprocessed foods..and now we are 30% obese..obesity did not  exist until AFTER the 1970s and the food pyramid pushing grains on us daily..as healthy..

HOW does the average person TRUST anything the US Gov says?  or ignores in not telling us for our own 'good'?

Right NOW the statins industry is growing by leaps and bound, they are looking for every reason to get everyone one them.  to lower cholesterol.. well your liver makes 80% of the cholesterol in your body…and now the drug industry wants to mess with that?

 I just posted about the failed SHARP study that helps only 30 in 1000…and then only at a 1/4 reduction in heart attack risk..and that is for CKD and dialysis patients. they WANT ALL of us  HERE on these 2 drugs so 3-4% can have a SMALL improvement? 

This is the same FDA and USDA  ignoring the nutrition and low cost benefit  of hempseed? uha…  It's a food..eat it or don't.

Also hemp takes 6x less space, water, etc to grow a crop for industrial use..this has NOTHING to do with smoking pot. growing weed for smoking, etc.


I have written to the NKF who also has a bunch of food recipe info, and NO reference to hempseed.

So what canI say?

[noahvale]

^

[MuddyGurl]

MY CKD vegetarian diet is specifically  written for why I as a CKD patient am finding what works    NOT advice for anyone else in Diaysis or transplant.
I understand it  you all need more protein, not less, and have other issues to resolve with nutrition.  As you have your knowledge of what works, I am discovering and sharing mine for CKD.  FortunatelyI have the medical support of experts in treatment of CKD, and nutrition support.

How wonderful it might be to be able to stall and slow the slide to dialysis with a specific diet for CKD, yes?

Unfortunately trying to provide info that can help CKD, NON -transplant people may alarm all others.

What to do?

Shut up on what can work for CKD?   or share the info and hope  readers who have extensive experience in their dialysis/transplant are not  going to runoff and get into trouble for themselves.

Posting in PRE-Dialysis, as most CKD stage 3-4 ARE in pre dialysis is the only option for IHD   …or if there were  a SPECIFIC Forum for CKD  in this site it may serve that audience separately as well.

It would bet sad to avoid or turn away/make unwelcome CKD patients only because they are not yet in dialysis.

[noahvale]

^

[MuddyGurl]

I agree, Having complete information is critical..for any disease or medical condition. 

It is such a shame that hemp seed/pumpkin seed and maybe flax seed too can cause issues for  kidney and dialysis patients.

However on the flip side,  was able to improve my CKD by 3 points within 30 days with a plant based diet and hempseed & eggs as my main protein.
I was tested again Monday and was surprised to see that an added 30 days of the same diet with hemp seed, eggs and magnesium  in my drinking water and as food have INCREASED my eGFR another 9 points.  My Creatinine went from 1.93 to 1.74 the first 30 day, then to 1.45 yesterday   with an eGFR of 38..higher than it was in 2012! (37)  when I first asked to talk to a Neph.

My BP improved, as did urea nitrogen,  so it looks this is a good solution for me at this time.  I also supplement with Tumeric, ALA and COQ10, as well as fish oil as approved by my naturpath Dr.

Since this WOE is working for me, and I have the support of Dr. Calton, the scientist who worked with Dr. Walser  to develop a safe low protein diet , with supplmened Amino Acids, I am satisfied to continue this program.  Nephs will and have told me I can do nothing to improve my  function on my own…so, whom to believe?  As Dr. Bert Herring says we must be wiling to be an N=1…our own study of one.

I certainly wish there could be better results for other CKD stage 3-4 patients with a plant based low carb diet.  I'm happy to share my research and data.

[Zach]

Congrats to your stick-to-it-ness!!
 

[MuddyGurl]

UPDATE… I continued on my VLP diet, vegetarian style, with no meat, and limiting high potassium foods, supplemented with essential amino acids.   

I had my first  renal blood test, since last Aug. and my GFR is now better than even 2012…I am now at 42….which was where I was in 2010...with Creatinine down to 1.2… it was 1.5 in Aug. 2015

Because CKD patients are so limited on phosphorous and potassium, sodium, I am tracking daily levels, and typically only salt is hardest to manage. I limit eggs and real cheese, Vegan cheese is the worst for taste, so I eat more cream cheese. I found a very low sugar pasta sauce, and limit how much I use, I make a 'baked spaghetti" with the Miracle Noodles that have no carbs or calories..and crumble 'riced' cauliflower with a Vegan sausage I like, and it recreates  "meat" without the meat.
 
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/saturated-fats-and-the-kidneys/

Doubling saturated fat in diet does not increase saturated fat in blood
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141121151104.htm

https://proteinpower.com/drmike/2016/02/03/will-the-new-dietary-guidelines-fatten-us-even-more/

https://www.ketovangelist.com/episode-34-dr-trudi-deakin-talks-about-the-importance-of-saturated-fat/

https://www.credit-suisse.com/ru/en/news-and-expertise/economy/articles/news-and-expertise/2015/09/en/fat-the-new-health-paradigm.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/alarming-rise-29-million-americans-diabetes-n127386

 

[hatedialysis2]

HIGH FIVE to you MuddyGurl!   More folks in CKD 3 -4 need to hear your success story.  I am so Thrilled that you conquered and persisted and were victorious!   It becomes very stressful and confusing when you consult with neph. At this early stage who give you doom and gloom dialysis/transplant/death iprediction with such authority.  I know I consulted with 4 nephrologist in 1994 when I was at stage 3 and they all told me I would be looking at the 3 gloomy options by 1997.    With diet and lifestyle I was able to push the prediction date by another 15 years.    Unfortunately I got exposed to an oil spill which was too much toxins to filter.  I wish I would have done more to detox naturally.   

I wish you continued success and blessings! 

[MuddyGurl]

HD2..I am so sorry to hear that exposure caused so much of a problem to your existing kidneys//  are you on dialysis now? How are you doing?

I think what helped me keep researching was the favorable results of a VL sugar diet.

Unfortunately what happens with "too much enthusiasm" is people are suspicious, and cling only to what the Neph knows. Many are good doctors and well trained in helping survive dialysis..that is their main goal. So they will not advise  eating a non meat diet as many people will develop malnutrition from doing it wrong, and cause further health weakness and issues when dialysis is needed.

 If you mention a product or nutrition method that is also suspicious, yet when I observed how the rest of the world's renal specialists are treating kidney disease with a VLP diet, and supplemented amino acids I was encouraged to trust it. ( only one  renal researcher  studying VLP nutrition is active in the US that I know of, Dr. W.E. Mitch at U TX at Baylor..others may be active too, and studies are all shown in Pubmed.gov) There are annual international renal nutrition conventions, but no US kidney doctors attend. None. it is not supported in the USA for reasons too convoluted to list here, based on a very flawed and failed MDRD study.

In China more than 100,00!! CKD patients are in a huge study with this diet and AAs..they have 20 million who may need dialysis, and MUST find alternatives as no country can support that many in dialysis, nor have the equipment to do so.  The USA  ESRD treatment  is projected to absorb  most of the Medicare budget   in 20+ years if CKD continues, along with obesity and diabetes.   This is harsh and scary news to hear.

Not everyone can be helped with diet, we are all our own N=1 study, so maintaining low potassium, and sodium helps some.

But I could not eat a vegetarian diet with reduced protein if I didn't take essential amino acids daily. 
 
Fortunately there is a huge gap between Stage 3 and Stage 5..there is not millions in Stage 4….interesting...so the body finds a way to manage CKD in Stage 3 that keeps them from failing. And there is no way MDs know WHO will need renal care, so it is case by case.. Again following a preventive diet seems like a good start, and taking responsibility wherever possible.

The Global Kidney initiative is unknown by most, and they work at education and science to help kidney disease awareness, and  we'll learn more in future if problems causing ESRD continue

[hatedialysis2]

I started dialysis in 2012 and the treatments caused complications I never had before.   Dialysis was not kind to me for the first year with lots of hospitalizations.  Thankfully I am ok now and working on reversing some of my conditions thru a more targeted diet and exercise. i am passionate about yoga and wish I can afford to go back to acupuncture.   

Doctors have to follow protocols or they can loose their license.  They are not trained in diet, nutrition, herbs, supplements.  .  Thank god they are there for trauma, diagnosis, and emergency treatments.  I am grateful that we are living at a time where we have options and availability of the best herbs from around the world.  We have to fight to preserve this for our future generations as there are forces that want to take those choices away.

By the way what was the cause of your kidney condition?   

[MuddyGurl]

Kidney cancer of course was the reason I lost one. Then having just HALF the normal function but not being told anything but "watch salt" caused  me to continue to drop in function. Kidney disease was NEVER mentioned, nothing said to educate me..despite all the GLobal Initiatives,  etc..

Until I found out by accident that I was at the BOTTOM of Stage 3, then I demanded to see a nephrologist (I have the VA for healthcare)  She was very annoyed to take time for me as she told me, and all the staff confirmed, they are most concerned with cancer returning, NOT the health of my kidney..because the option of dialysis was EXPECTED anyway..since everyone "knows" you can't fix this yourself".  So the MDs and NPs at the VA all firmly believe nutrition makers little effect. Maybe because they see so few patients willing to make real effort and require dialysis anyway.

I am fortunate I discovered Dr. Walser, and his book on Coping with Kidney Disease…in it I found why a vegetarian diet was protective, and why we needed added essential amino acids if we went with strict protein limits in food.

+++++++++++++++ 
 Doctors have to follow protocols or they can loose (lose) their license
-----A PROTOCOL is a treatment plan, who said they are to go against it?   

Thank god they are there for trauma, diagnosis, and emergency treatments.       
.----who said the opposite?   

We have to fight to preserve this for our future generations as there are forces that want to take those choices away.
---The forces you mention are the US Government and FDA/USDA who will  remove all non-patent medicine or  accepted PROTOCOL options, disallow import or selling of any claimed  'natural treatments', etc   ….like herbs you like, so are you defending them to advocate only one accepted plan of nutrition for ALL?

MANY sellers of all sorts of claimed cures are bogus, and can harm patients, and keep them from proper treatment.
 

[Charlie B53]

You seem well in control of your diet, having knowledge of what herbs, amino acids, protein food sources friendly to a renal patient.

As a clueless man, where do I begin?  What do I need, how do I figure put my body's needs, where do I find these particular herbs and amino acids, and lastly at what expense?  Unable to work any longer my financial position is far far less than it was when working.  Every month is worrisome when utilities come due.

As a newborn, I know next to nothing.  Most people do not have any idea of what their body needs, only to eat whatever is at hand when they are hungry.

Sounds like a lot of this should have been taught very long ago, perhaps as very young adults it may have kept us off dialysis for many more years.

[hatedialysis2]

By protocols I mean treatment plans set by the AMA and whatever governing boards.    Those protocols do not include herbs, or natural preventive treatments. If a physician told a patient to try diet and herbs for cancer condition and that patient dies, the family can sue and AMA would remove his/her lic.  But if he/she followed the  conventional protocol and the patient dies, he/she is covered.  I mention that because I sensed your frustration with the fact that your doctors were not knowledgeable went it came to nutrition to help you.   

I've been thru exactly what you went thru, my saving grace was a holistic nurse.  She changed my diet by in 2000. It was mostly eating organic and avoid processed stuff and along with yoga and medical massage , it helped get me off two blood pressure meds, slowed the progression of my kidney disease.   I then kept researching and called Ayurvedic doctors in India, and traditional Chinese medical doctors.    My  problem is I don't know the cause.  I had I biopsy back in 1989, and it was inconclusive.  That is why I am asking you if you know the cause of your kidney disease.   The diet will help bring down your creatinine and BUN, but are you treating the cause?   

As for forces, there are others that have lobbying influence and powers to change laws. 

[hatedialysis2]

You seem well in control of your diet, having knowledge of what herbs, amino acids, protein food sources friendly to a renal patient.

As a clueless man, where do I begin?  What do I need, how do I figure put my body's needs, where do I find these particular herbs and amino acids, and lastly at what expense?  Unable to work any longer my financial position is far far less than it was when working.  Every month is worrisome when utilities come due.

As a newborn, I know next to nothing.  Most people do not have any idea of what their body needs, only to eat whatever is at hand when they are hungry.

Sounds like a lot of this should have been taught very long ago, perhaps as very young adults it may have kept us off dialysis for many more years.

If I may weigh in, a stage 3 diet options and restrictions are different from the requirements of a dialysis patient.  Which leads to what is your goal/s?  Is it to preserve residual kidney function?  Treat other conditions? What are your current requirements nutrition  wise? The best person to answer that question is your renal dietitian as she sees your lab reports.   I would ask her to advise you what your daily requirements/limits for protein, phosphorus, potassium, sodium are in mg. She/he can help you devise a meal plan that includes more plant based foods.   That would mean planning your meals and food shopping list  on a weekly basis.   I know if I ate whatever was in the fridge around meal times I would eat cheese with cucumbers and arugula for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[Michelle2016]

As I know,CKD means chronically kidney disease. It can not be reversed because kidney cells can not repaired or regenerated as liver cells. The healthy diet can only slow down the progress of the chronic kidney disease.

[Michelle2016]

If it's acute kidney failure, it' would be a different story.