Question to gardeners...

[kristina]

This is a question which has made me wonder for a little while:
Has anything changed with plants originating from local garden centres and garden shops ?
The plants I admire these days seem to grow faster, quicker, taller, bigger and this fact mystifies me ...
Has anyone an answer to this mystery?

Thanks from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

Propagators are always trying to come up with varieties of plants that are disease and/or insect resistant or are more adaptable to harsher climates.  Most people like hardy and vigorous plants that require little maintenance, so propagators aim to cater to that market!

[monrein]

The correct soil, day and night temperatures, watering and and fertilizing schedule make a huge difference too. Most plants in garden shops are propagated and grown under ideal conditions in greenhouses so they look pretty amazing. However many of these "gift" plants are difficult to keep going under normal home or apartment conditions and so they will need to be replaced.
I'm curious about which particular plants you might have in mind.

[kristina]

Thank you very much for your thoughts,  MooseMom and monrein.
I was wondering about this, because in recent years I have observed that many flowers (i.e. Impatiens and Gardenias)
have grown almost double their original size of years ago.
I am aware that many flowers and plants are often specially treated to appear in perfect flowering conditions
during special flower-shows like” The Chelsea Garden Show” and many other shows.
But these days many plants and flowers in ordinary window boxes and parks are growing extremely huge...
... I could well imagine that an automatic regulated water-system installed in window-boxes can assist the plants to grow much better and easier,
if the water-system is being put on for example three times a day for 7 minutes each time,
but not everyone has a costly water-system installed in their window-boxes ...
... and I have been wondering whether these plants have been artificially changed or genetically modified
and that has changed  their original growth and appearance over the years ?
Thanks from Kristina.

[monrein]

Well, with impatiens as an example....there are a large number of varieties ranging from 8" maximum height to 12" and so this can account for differing sizes. And some of the new hybrids (genetically modified is different) have been selectively bred for larger flower size. Currently, many varieties of impatiens in North America have been affected by a soil fungus and so many plantings of impatiens are the So- called New Guinea variety which can tolerate more sun and are a larger plant than other " shade" impatiens.
Even if one does not have a watering system for window boxes for example, some of the new potting soils are capable of retaining moisture much more efficiently than in the past and fertilizers are often time released so one application will last all summer.

[kristina]

Thank you again, monrein,
I have not thought about the new potting soils to retain moisture
and your thoughts are very much appreciated.
Here in London we have also lots of gardening-troubles with soil fungus
which affects plants very badly and I have recently had an interesting talk
with a very dedicated gardening lady and she even prepares her own soil
to protect her plants from fungus and any other possible diseases ...
... she thought everything was connected to the bought soil...

Thanks again from Kristina.

[Charlie B53]

A GREAT many moons ago, back when I kept eight tall green plants in a mirrored walk-in closet, I was seriously into my soil.  Bought lots of 'stuff', sterilized it all in the oven just to be SURE that there was NO living bacteria that I didn't put in there myself.  Wife wasn't too happy with the smell in the kitchen so I turned on the vent fan and opened the window.  I was afraid she might toss out the pans I used so I scrubbed them absolutely spot-less, cleaner than they've been in a long time.

Anyway,  I used red worms, more or less developed my plant beds into worm beds, they ate the sterilized organics and cast off casings, excrement, that helped feed my plants.

Let's just say that closet was a 'test bed' which later was expanded immensely, into whole houses, until I quit in 84 after the Feds started passing laws so they could sieze any and all personal property as 'ill-gotten gains'.

I've been 'retired' from that for a long time, but I remember, plants just need the proper food, water, and half decent weather, to thrive.  Start with the soil.  Look up exactly what your plant of choice needs and develop the soil to meet those needs without exceeding those needs by too much.  Remember, all things in moderation includes chemicals.  If you can find an organic supplement, a natural form, that is always better than resorting to a bag or jar of chemical additive.

Sterilize everything.  You don't know where that soil, or organic additive came from, what bacteria, or mites, may be living in it.  You do NOT want to add anything that may be harmful to your plants.

Rinse you worms and isolate them in a container of sterilized organic for a week, rinsing and changing containers until you are sure they are 'flushed' out, then rinse and transfer to your soil.  Add fresh sterilized organics a lightly turn into the upper soil regularly, like left-over vegetables from dinner, worm food.

It really isn't that much work once you get started, they pay off is watching how much difference it makes in the growth, speed and overall health of your plants.

I really miss those days, and nights.  It was great times.

[kristina]

Crikey Charlie, you certainly have gone into gardening very seriously and I am very impressed!
Thanks very much for sharing your experiences, it is very much appreciated.
I have noticed that it is most important to "be very much on the spot" from the very start,
otherwise, if the slightest mistake "slinks in", things can go out of hand very quickly and very soon...
Thanks again for sharing and best wishes from Kristina.

[Charlie B53]

There were a few of 'us' guys in school 'experimenting' by applying a few of the things we learned in botany, biology, chemistry, and physics, to 'gardening' are favorite 'green' plant.  It didn't hurt that the school had a government sponsorship to grow this then illegal green plant which is now legal in Washington and Colorado.  Somehow we came into possession of a few 'cuttings' which we were able to root, and the rest they say, is history.

I swear, it IS one of THE best strains on the planet, still.   And whatever I may have done has been soo long past there is NO longer any possibility of any statute of limiitations applying.

I've been clean since '84, but I remember, and still miss both the growing, and enjoying, whether burnt or ingested, which IS far better, absolutely no waste.

I am seriously considering looking and obtaining small quantity to capsulate and dose my wife for her diabetic eyes to relieve the increasing ocular pressure.  I can also help lower her blood pressure in small doses only, never even enough for her to 'feel' it.  She is having serious problems with both eyes.  I'd hate myself if I didn't do anything about it knowing perfectly well that this herb can, and will make a positive difference, even though this state still does not allow medical use.

Government can be so Draconian, even knowing they are wrong, they continue NOT to change JUST to prove they can be obstinate.

[JW77]

This is a question which has made me wonder for a little while:
Has anything changed with plants originating from local garden centres and garden shops ?
The plants I admire these days seem to grow faster, quicker, taller, bigger and this fact mystifies me ...
Has anyone an answer to this mystery?

Thanks from Kristina.

Coming in a bit late to this, but as an avid gardener and horticulturalist, I shall reply.

Plants, like clothes, cars, fashion, etc have become very commercial.  Sometimes grown for appearance rather than strength. Growers will spend a lot of money into breeding and propagating new 'Cultivars' of plants for sale the following season, either concentrating on scent, getting a flower that is very rarely blue, blue (like a rose). And so on.

Monsanto, would I think, love to OWN, all the seeds, all the varieties, and prosecute anyone who doesn't conform, however, that's another story!:)


Growing methods have changed, becoming a lot more mechanised, in terms of seeding, potting and labeling, so plants will be 'display suitable' when they reach the garden centre. Most garden centres and nurseries will grow in a controlled compost, usually with a slow release fertiliser to give the plant enough food to last its season in the shop.

One of the downsides is plants may loose their natural resistance to fight fungus and disease.

Veg is the same, a supermarket carrot is very different from a wild carrot, and most veg has been 'bred' for centuries for better results, although increasing appearance and faster growing sometimes reduces nutritional value, due to the speed at which veg is grown, partly anyway:) Ever notice how supermarket veg goes rotten faster than home grown?

If your growing indoors, you may need to add a little artificial supplements in terms of fertiliser, if your not changing composts.
  However if your growing normally, soil needs to be alive. Sterile soil is dead soil. Plants thrive far better with the correct soil and a positive number of bacteria and mycorrizae fungi for best results. Live soil and worms are a gardeners best friend:)


And yes, a few people grew and partook of 'the weed' at college. Myself, more of a passive experience! lol

@Kristina.  I too am a London gardener. In North London we have an issue with drainage, well some parts due to London clay. The answer to that is fibre, mulch mulch mulch.. Like a healthy human, soil needs fibre to aid its cycle and 'digestive' system. Healthy soil = healthy plants.. Less drainage means, excess water, lack of oxygen for the roots, and easy pickings for fungi. I suppose what you'd call unfavorable fungi.


One thing that HAS changed is the selling of peat free composts. This is an environmental and ethical debate of its own. Some substitutes come close, but no one, I think has come up with a 100 match for peat based composts. 


There's a very simple soil experiment you can do with composts.

Get 3 identical pots, and fill one with sterile peat, or substitute, one with shop bought compost and one with home made. Sow identical numbers of fast growing seed, such as beans/sweet peas, grow as you normally would.

2 weeks after germination measure the height of each subject pot.

[kristina]

Thanks again, CharlieB53 and JW77 for your informative gardening-thoughts.
It is very much appreciated and I am very grateful.
Kind regards and best wishes from Kristina.

[JW77]

A pleasure.. Which end of London are you, any plans for your garden next year?

J

[kristina]

Hello JW77,
I am in Central London and I am looking after my five window-boxes,
where I have mainly evergreens, but through the season there are lots of different flowers 
with lots of colour and it is great fun...
... Which end of London are you and what are your plans for your garden next year?

[JW77]

North London

Partly look after my parents garden (still with em, its tough to be independent in London on dialysis.

Might be moving to Shropshire next year with the girl, hopefully with our own garden, which I hope will one day be a small scale mix of permaculture/agroforestry, with food and fruit production in an ornamental manner.  A man can dream:)

Parents garden a very varied mix of fruit/nut, and ornamentals. 2 mature birch, plus pear, apple, hazel, fig, tamerisk, lilac, camellia, and various others.  Parents also have allotments so a fair few beans, spuds, and other fruit and veg grown there:)

[kristina]

Hello JW77,
Your parents have a very interesting garden and allotments and it sounds very busy!
North London? Many years ago I lived for a while in Bounds Green and later near Southgate...
...I have mainly evergreens like Buxus-plants in my window-boxes
and through the seasons lots of different flowers in many beautiful colours...

[JW77]

I'm in Haringey, Crouch End/Hornsey area,  was a bit rough when my parents bought the house such a long long time ago:) Bit of a rough area, now its cafe's, hairdressers, designer opticians, for some reason, and silly rent and rates.

Bit chilly out a but a fair bit of planning to do, and tidying up.

Would you believe it, we still have tadpoles in the pond. Its been so warm. Tadpoles, in December!
Its a shady sheltered pond so hopefully they'll survive if it gets colder!

[kristina]

Hello JW77,
I know Crouch End very well because they have one of the very best public art-libraries in London!
It is also a very lovely area, very artistic and I remember there are quite a few composers, artists and writers,
philosophers and thinkers one can meet in Muswell Hill and Crouch End and it is a most inspiring area...

[Charlie B53]

Red clay here in Missouri, so thick I swear you could cut it into blocks, bake it into bricks, and build a house.  Every other year I vacuum up the leaves from our 3 acres of yard with 60 odd trees, most oak and a few maple.  I spread that grass and leaves over the garden and til it in.  Most years it doesn't get tilled until mid spring after it dries well enough.  Alternate years I burn all the leaves and spread the ash on before tilling.  I burn lots of slash, deadfall and tree trimmings so all that ash gets included in the garden.  I figured it all came from the ground, why not put it back.    The County Extension Guy asked me if I knew what I was doing.  Well, No.  He said the organic swings the ph of my soil way off, however, the ash neutralized it so my end result was well centered.

Guess I got lucky again!  All I know is the two years the deer let me grow sweet potatoes, they averages over 30 pounds, bigger than a human head. This last two years I have been growing yellow fleshed watermelon, averaged near 35 pound.

I still want to add a couple of inches of sand and maybe an inch or two of gypsum, I'm told they will help 'loosen' the clay.

[JW77]

Hello JW77,
I know Crouch End very well because they have one of the very best public art-libraries in London!
It is also a very lovely area, very artistic and I remember there are quite a few composers, artists and writers,
philosophers and thinkers one can meet in Muswell Hill and Crouch End and it is a most inspiring area...

@kristina,

The library gallery is where I do my Chi Gung exercise class, they also have an art exhibition running there, with paintings by one of my friends. A few chain shops moving in but that's unavoidable I think.

[kristina]

Hello JW77,
What you mention makes me feel a bit nostalgic...
... many years ago I had one of my very first exhibitions in the same Gallery
and I remember my great excitement about this exhibition and how hard I had tried
to create a beautiful poster to advertise my exhibition ...
This library with all the different art-books and the Gallery with many changing exhibitions
is a most inspiring place for artists to find out the publics reaction to their artistic creations...
... It is also a very strange experience for artists to feel a little "exposed with their innermost feelings"
whilst they display their own (very personal) artistic creations...
... and for the artist to hear what people say about their art...
... whilst the artist stands there - unrecognized - and listens...
.... it is quite an interesting learning-process...
I do hope your friend's exhibition is very successful
and I send you my best wishes, Kristina.

[JW77]

@kristina

Talking of gardens, I don't know if you can remember, there is a little courtyard below the gallery, called the Zen garden.  Sadly its fallen into disrepair, but a big move, mostly volunteers to get it going again.

[kristina]

Hello JW77,
Unfortunately I have not seen the Zen Garden yet ...
... perhaps I moved away from the area too early to come across it?
Thanks for the information and I do hope the volunteers are successful in restoring it ...
Best wishes and thanks again from Kristina.