Trusting people?

[George Jung]

Here's a little story of mine that has been and continues to bother me.
I had been hit with the reality of renal failure and dialysis basically overnight.  It was, and to a certain point, is a very difficult time, especially emotionally.  While in that state of unknowing I had felt like my "number" had been called and I was expressing many emotions.  I felt like my time was close to an end.  Well, I chose to express my feelings to certain friends and family.  Feelings of gratefulness for knowing and loving them and all we had shared that is precious.  Thing I wanted to say in case I wouldn't have a chance to say again.  I had conversations and e-mails that described my fears as well as my appreciation for the life I have been so privileged to live.  I had a tremendous amount of anxiety and some depression (still do) and any contact with people who care was/is very limited and on my terms.  I would go a week or two without responding to attempts of people trying to contact me.  I felt like I needed that time and when I was ready for intervention I would find a way to get what I needed.  I am now.

Let me set the stage for an example.  In this past August I was reunited with my most loved girlfriend from ten years ago.  I was 20 at the time and she was 18 so we were very young couple.  This girl is an angle in my mind.  We dated and lived togeather for a couple of years.  I moved out of state to go to school and she was to move also.  Well she didn't and like most people that age we went our ways.  Understandable.  I had always dreamed we would meet again someday, to be friends would have made me happier then anything, just to know she is enjoying her life.  We did meet again this past august, almost ten years later.  She was living in Boulder but was in town for her moms birthday.  She looked me up and my dream came true.  We spent the weekend togeather.  I wound up going to visit her (I had been planning a move for myself) so I wanted to see if I would like Denver.  I was there for two weeks.  During that time we spent every free minuets togeather.  It can be a long story but to make it short, I asked her to marry me and we got engaged!  This was truly a dream come true.  I mean I love this girl, she is a dream!  Two months later after several visits back and forth, it's over for some reason unknown to me.  She says "I cant do this.  I had already sold my furniture and my two motorcycles and packed my apartment to make the move to be with her.  We had found a house in the Highlands, just outside of downtown Denver, and I had signed a lease and was ready to send our deposit.  That night she says that she can't do it.  She's sorry, she says.  Life goes on and I get over it.  It was to good to be true anyway I said.

Recently I have come to learn about certain people suggesting to have me committed.  She is one of them, along with a psychologist girl at the hospital and some family members that I talk to once or twice a year.  I am having big issues with this.  I don't feel like I can trust these people.  All I ever did was talk about my feelings and yes, at that time, I felt like it was hopeless and I was angry.  However, my actions never constituted any major concern for worry.  I had never missed a dialysis appointment and I have never been a type of person to "hurt myself".  Since, I have written these people off due to the fact that I feel like I cannot trust them.  Anybody that knows me should know better than to go to such an extreme.  Commit me for what?  For working through a time the best way I know how?  Well now that they see that I am doing fine, not my old self obviously, but doing fine under the circumstance, and they want me to talk to them.  I can't find it in me to talk to them.  I have no trust in them.  Someone who wanted to commit me without exhausting other options scares me.  I think that would have been the absolute worst place for me.

How would you handle this situation?  Any advice?

[KICKSTART]

Im sorry but if you post like that, i dont mean to be blunt , but you come across as hard done too, feeling sorry for yourself and wanting peoples sympathy. We all go through the anger , the depression, the frustration, but instead of dwelling on it , you have to somehow move on. No-one wants or enjoys this illness, but we all have to try anyway we can to make the best of it . I'm sorry to be so harsh but it comes across like you are after sympathy more than advice.

[George Jung]

Who do you propose I am seeking sympathy from?  You?
I come across as what?
What am I dwelling on?
This bitch just e-mailed me 2 months after she told my family to commit me.  This is someone I had put all of my trust into.  Someone who I thought would have the best interest for me. 
WTF are you talking about?
Your reply is ignorant and way off base.
??

[glitter]

I think I am understanding that you WERE in a bad place for awhile after diagnosis-you worked through it for the most part-including issues with your mortality-and the people that you went to for support,violated your trust, by not trusting you enough to know you were trying to come to terms with ESRD,and instead talked about having you committed because they were afraid for your safety.

Is that right?

I think wether they could actually have you committed it not the issue..just the fact that they would even consider it...and I am not going to give you a useless platitude about how 'well-meaning they were in their worry' -because that kind of behavior pisses me off too. I can understand your dis-trust....

as for wether your post sounds like you felt sorry for yourself-note -that is past-tense...and when my husband abruptly became a ESRD patient...we also went through a period where we had to re-define what our lives were going to mean.In his grief and depression,it was easy to question wether it was worth it... he had to spend a time coming to terms with it.He still has issues with anger and depression but I think the worst is past for him too. There was a time I asked him if I should move the guns out of the house,and he told me no-it would leave him defenseless...which would be adding to his depression...so I had to trust that I knew him well enough to know he would not self-destruct. But I was scared for awhile. Maybe they were truly frightened for your safety...maybe they were just butting in without knowing the facts...you are the only one who knows how well they could have judged your intentions...maybe your just ashamed that you had considered it,and you know they know it. Don't be ashamed of your feelings,not past or present. I am sorry for rambling on,your post touched a nerve...

and I do think KICKSTART should re-read your post..

[Sluff]

I think you were just going through a tough time and you worked your way through the best way you could. The same remedy does not work for everyone.

George if those feelings you were having suggest you should be committed than I'm going to buy an island for people like us.

Hang in there buddy! It's not easy feeling that way, and then feeling comfortable enough to share your feelings with others is a big step in the healing process.

As far as KICKSTART, she is entitled to her opinion as well.

[George Jung]

Yea I was in a bad place.  Who wasn't?  Tell me that.  Who was happy this happened to them.  People have different ways of working through things.  I wanted time to myself without everybody harping on me and fearing the worst.  As they did!!!!!!!!  I didn't and don't want a part of that.  I want to stay positive and optimistic.  I'm sure their interest was for my well being gut that doesn't make it right.  There are no perfect plans only perfect intentions.  Point is, they were wrong about what was best for me and these people that I am referring to simply jumped to that decision without exhausting alternative methods.  Very distrusting!!!

Feeling sorry for myself is part of the set up of the story, not my point.
I am not, and there will never be a reason to be ashamed of how someone feels.  Feelings are a major part of living and you have to appreciate them and learn.  Do I think that I am the only person to feel the way I have/do?  Yea, I'm that naive.  

Glitter, thank you for reading my post as it was intended.  I commend you for trusting your husband, he really needed that I'm sure.  I would also like your opinion on weather or not you think I should talk to this girl.  I don't really want to.  How do I establish trust with the other members of the mental health Dream Team?

[George Jung]

Thanks sluff.  Any advice on where to go from here concerning these individuals?

As for Kickstart....her opinion has absolutely nothing to do with what I am asking.  She is simply passing judgment on something I wrote and her failed interpretation.  Way out of line in my opinion.  Why even say anything like that?  Piss poor reply!!!

[Deanne]

I'm sorry you were hurt / betrayed. It's hard to trust after feeling such betrayal. Maybe a bit of mistrust isn't an awful thing though? I don't know. I don't trust people very much myself, but I guess I don't see this as such a bad thing. I'm just taking care of myself in the best way I know. I trust people to a degree (I'm not paranoid!), but I do have limits.  

You need to find a sense of balance that works for you. People WILL say or do things at times that are hurtful. But ya know what? You'll say or do things that hurt other people, too! It isn't intentional. It's just a part of being human. If you lock yourself into a box, you aren't really living. If you throw too much information out there for everyone, you aren't keeping a healthy set of boundaries. Somewhere in the middle is the balance that works for you. It sounds like you're giving too much of yourself too soon and the people you're sharing with don't know how to respond. They see your sharing as a request for help when it was really maybe just an outlet for you. Maybe instead of sharing quite so much with everyone in the future, you could share your feelings in a journal or wth just one person who you've taken a lot of time building up trust with?

[MJB]

Hey George,

I completely understand where you are comming from. I will not make excuses for the people in our lives. You had every right to have the thoughts you were having. This is what pisses me off about family and friends that do not understand what ESRD puts you through. I have found that most of the people that WERE in my life that gave me similar advice were the one's who could not handle it. It, being the emotional side of ESRD and the finality of it and that dealing with it for the rest of our lives aspects. They are the one's who need help. If they would spend a minute trying to understand your position and talking to a dialysis social worker maybe they would know WTF 's up. I have seen the worst in people and now know who my true friends are and who just does not want to hear it. They will ask how you are, but cringe at the thought of really hearing you.

I had a very very similar situation with a girl I loved and we were together for over 10 years off and on. ( Off- she moved across country). We reunited back in 1998 and became engaged in 2001 and she did almost the exactly same thing. We had remained friends for about 3 years after the engagement, but one day back in '05 she just stopped taking my calls and we haven't spoke since. It really hurts when these people betray us, weather as a friend of more.

I think that Kickstart is way off and is lucky if she has not had to endure this kind of behavior. It NOT sympathy that were looking for. It is true amazement that these people think we were going to kill ourselves because we have something that they cannot comprehend and will never understand and believe that we must want a way out. It is a cheap shot by all who do this and I for one could give a shit about those people anymore.

Keep your chin up and embrace those who do CARE about you.

Mike

[George Jung]

Mike, thanks brother.  You're right.  I will keep on and you do the same.

[KICKSTART]

Thanks sluff.  Any advice on where to go from here concerning these individuals?

As for Kickstart....her opinion has absolutely nothing to do with what I am asking.  She is simply passing judgment on something I wrote and her failed interpretation.  Way out of line in my opinion.  Why even say anything like that?  Piss poor reply!!!

I'm not even going to rise to your comments  and PLEASE stop the swearing, i dont recall using any.

[Joe Paul]

Excellent replies for the most part. Not much I can add, except that you have to listen to your heart, if you feel you cannot trust these people, forget them. You sound like you are getting along OK without them anyhow. Trust is earned, not something thats just handed out.

[meadowlandsnj]

Recently I have come to learn about certain people suggesting to have me committed.  She is one of them, along with a psychologist girl at the hospital and some family members that I talk to once or twice a year.  I am having big issues with this.  I don't feel like I can trust these people.  All I ever did was talk about my feelings and yes, at that time, I felt like it was hopeless and I was angry.  However, my actions never constituted any major concern for worry.  I had never missed a dialysis appointment and I have never been a type of person to "hurt myself".  Since, I have written these people off due to the fact that I feel like I cannot trust them.  Anybody that knows me should know better than to go to such an extreme.  Commit me for what?  For working through a time the best way I know how?  Well now that they see that I am doing fine, not my old self obviously, but doing fine under the circumstance, and they want me to talk to them.  I can't find it in me to talk to them.  I have no trust in them.  Someone who wanted to commit me without exhausting other options scares me.  I think that would have been the absolute worst place for me.

How would you handle this situation?  Any advice?

I can understand what you're going through and the trust issues.  When I lost my transplanted kidney I went through a period when I didn't want to talk to anyone, not even my sister who is my best friend.  She knew to back off too knowing eventually I'd deal with it and come to terms with it in my time.  I had a few relatives and friends who just didn't get it and worried more about their hurt feelings than my situation.  They got over it.  If they didn't then oh well.  Their loss.

Donna

[George Jung]

KICKSTART, Thank you.  Please don't "give rise" to anything I comment on.  You have no credibility/value with me.  This site is here to help people and support them when called for, not to pass judgment as you have so freely done.  Your opinion/post was not even on the topic I started.  Had I asked to for my writing to be psycho-analyzed, your opinion would have been fine (as an opinion), But I didn't.  And if I want to say WTF, or piss poor, to describe my emotions/feelings I damn sure will.  I never said that you were a bitch or anything toward anybody here.

To everyone, else I apologize about this. I can't let this behavior toward me go without saying my piece.  I don't like to start fights but I will under any circumstance defend myself and those who I believe in.  I am done now, however, I would still like very much to hear what you have to say on the subject of WHAT TO DO, how to handle, this dis-trust with people in my life.

[jbeany]

Whoooo! - Okay, back to the original question here - how deal with these people.

I say tell them the truth.  Be blunt about it.  You don't trust them because of the way they treated you, and you have no interest in renewing a relationship with them under the circumstances.  Some actions can be forgiven, but not forgotten.  Those of us on dialysis are on life support.  We cannot live without medical intervention.  It's completely normal to have trouble adjusting to this "new normal" and anyone who expects us to go thru such a change, especially in such a short time period, without going thru a bit of trouble emotionally has some pretty unrealistic expectations.  (And let's face it, if we really wanted to harm ourselves, we wouldn't be dragging ourselves off to the dialysis center 3 times a week, suffering thru all those indignities just so we can stay alive.)  You had no warning that you were getting sick, so all of this would have come as a tremendous shock to you.  If they can't understand that. . . well, they better pray their health stays with them so they never have to understand, I suppose!

[Rerun]

You are living in reality.  You have ESRD.  You will die without a machine.  Who can live a "normal" life with that hanging over their head.  When my transplant was failing I went and got my Estate planning done.  Everything is arranged down to the songs at my funeral.

Now, if you are perfectly healthy and you go to this extreme then something is wrong with you.  But, come on.  We've all got one foot in the grave on dialysis.  AND if you disagree with me you need to be committed for "denial".

When the reality of mortality hits you it puts you in a different playing field.  Your girlfriend didn't want to face the truth.  She needed counseling on "marrying a chronically ill person". 

No one is going to put you away for feeling this way.  If they do, I'll be right there with you. 

What you went through was absolutely normal.  But, after a while you pinch yourself and realize your are "still here" living and breathing.  That is when you learn to live on, take one day at a time, make plans for the future because you "may" actually be here for awhile.

Take a deep breath George.  You are just fine in my opinion.

[glitter]

and hey-What is wrong with a little sympathy anyway?  Sometimes having someone to commiserate with is very helpful when your down and life is kicking the poo out of you. I am among friends here....

[Sluff]

George,

First off anyone who is supposed to be your friend should want to be there for you, and show at least some empathy, if not sympathy. I sometimes think I'm still in denial somedays because all I'm fighting right now is protein loss and trying to keep the kidneys alive, i come here and read some of the things that people here have gone through and I almost feel guilty because I  haven't reached the point where they are at. My family doesn't understand my feelings either.

I would contact these people and tell them how you feel, and I would let them know that your future relationship will not be the same as it use to be, and make sure you express the way their actions made you feel.

Just my opinion.

We do have people of all ages that see this site so we should keep the swear words to a minimum.

[George Jung]

Sluff, thanks.  That might be the way to go.  Do you think I should communicate verbally or written.  I think I would prefer to write but will it get the message across?  Maybe both, huh?  As far as the language goes, I wasn't raised on a sailors ship so no worries mate!  None of my other post have contained any four letter words but every now and then words in our traditional vocabulary don't carry the necessary meaning.  And I did apologize for it so it's not like I am unaware.  Thanks again, and I hear you.  George

keep the advice coming if you have any.  it gets the mind working and makes things a bit easier.

[jbeany]

I'd write it all out, George.  Even if you don't give it to them and end up talking face to face, it will help you organize your thoughts to put it all on paper. 

[paris]

George, We do understand what you have gone through. This really is a tough disease on the mind as well as the body. Most of us have lost friends or family because they can't handle our kidney failure.  Sounds like you have worked through alot and we are all here to help each other, so keep posting.

[Sluff]

Sluff, thanks.  That might be the way to go.  Do you think I should communicate verbally or written.  I think I would prefer to write but will it get the message across?  Maybe both, huh?  As far as the language goes, I wasn't raised on a sailors ship so no worries mate!  None of my other post have contained any four letter words but every now and then words in our traditional vocabulary don't carry the necessary meaning.  And I did apologize for it so it's not like I am unaware.  Thanks again, and I hear you.  George

keep the advice coming if you have any.  it gets the mind working and makes things a bit easier.

I would write it out and mail it. That way if there were any rejection you wouldn't have to feel like justifying your feelings. Your feelings are your feelings. Good Luck!

[brenda]

That's an awesome idea Sluff. Write it and mail it. Maybe it will give you closure George. Do what ever works for ya. If there's one thing I've learned from having this disease is people can go weird on you. It's like all of a sudden you've grown horns on your head  and warts on your nose or something. It divides your friends but at the same time lets you know who's who as far as friends go.

[Triker]

George, I felt all the same emotions that I'm sure you felt. I lost a wife. She couldn't deal with it, and began using drugs and staying out all night. At least no one threatened to have me committed. I don't blame you for feeling betrayed. I was pretty miserable in the early days, but never considered doing myself in. For myself, I can only be miserable for so long, then I have to make a change in my attitude. I would have to write a letter. I've had a couple of strokes, and had to have speech therapy in order to learn to talk again. Also, my memory isn't what it used to be. Under stress it is difficult for me to convey my meanings. I can express myself much better writing than by talking in person.

[goofynina]

Hi George,  Just a reminder that we are here for you, always will be too  ,  you take care of you and you just Keep on Keepin' on my friend,  dont let the stupidity and ignorance of others get the best of you