War on Women

[Gerald Lively]

Let's see now; Santorum is against contraceptives because the use of them would lead to recreational sex and only God knows what, Limbaugh chasens outspoken women by calling them sluts and other original adjectives, the GOP is still the anti-abortion club, Akins R(Missouri) says women can somehow squeeze their butt muscles and avoid pregnancy during a legitimate rape, or do as a Texas lawmaker said, Lay back and enjoy. 

This is called Vaginaphobia.  Or, is this really a war on women?

You know, I had vaginaphobia and it wasn't like the GOP version.  I kept sticking my nose in her business.

gerald

[stringbandbeth]

HA !!!
   "squeeze their butt muscles"   
  Thanks for that I needed a laugh this morning !

[billybags]

OK girls, lets all  "squeeze our butt muscles"  on the count of three.

 Gerald are these all people vying for positions in your government, if so "what a lot of ars*oles. I apologize if I have got this wrong.

[jbeany]

 Gerald are these all people vying for positions in your government, if so "what a lot of ars*oles. I apologize if I have got this wrong.

Yes, mostly.  Limbaugh is an obnoxious radio talk show host.

[Gerald Lively]

Hey, I didn't make the bad guy remark, it was a Republican from Missouri.  He said women couldn't get pregnant from a "legitimate rape".  So, I pondered this assertion using my vast encylopedic memory on physiology.  Which made me squeeze my butt muscles.  Sure enough, I didn't get pregnant.  Of course, I didn't get raped either.

But there are people who will vote for this guy.  They walk among us.

gl

[jbeany]

But there are people who will vote for this guy.  They walk among us.

gl

And he's refusing to even consider withdrawing from the race, so they are going to get their chance.

[YLGuy]

Hey, I didn't make the bad guy remark, it was a Republican from Missouri.  He said women couldn't get pregnant from a "legitimate rape".  So, I pondered this assertion using my vast encylopedic memory on physiology.  Which made me squeeze my butt muscles.  Sure enough, I didn't get pregnant.  Of course, I didn't get raped either.

But there are people who will vote for this guy.  They walk among us.

gl

Not in a sexual manner but Congress has done a pretty good job of having us all bent over. 

[smcd23]

This is called Vaginaphobia.  Or, is this really a war on women?

It's a new war on women - the first one (really the 2nd in terms of the feminist movement) came about in the 60s and 70s when all that bra burning and such went down so women could have equal rights - equal pay, equal opportunities in school and the workplace etc. This is just part of the third wave. Now that women are "equal" to men as far as work, pay, education etc (and in a lot of areas, passing men) the grumpy old men are now focusing on the one thing that sets women apart - their vaginas. And lets face it, no matter what is done, you can't change biology and body parts, and those ignorant men out there that still think a womans place is barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen will never get over it, and will keep putting it in the spotlight. Sadly, that spotlight right now is the friggin presidential election... because our country doesn't have anything else to worry about, so they are picking on vaginas.

But personally (this goes a little off topic but this post made me think of it again), and I am thinking of the whole birth control debate here, if an insurance company doesn't want to pay for my birth control then they shouldn't pay for ED drugs either. If you are not going to let me protect myself from horny old men, stop creating them!

[Gerald Lively]

I believe females should run the whole show.  They should be on top too.

[billybags]

Gerald, I love that. Women running the world and being on top. Yes I like that.

This Presidential race sounds a right bummer. I think, no, I know I like our UK way. Its simpler.

[YLGuy]

I believe females should run the whole show.  They should be on top too.

Hillary 2016!

[smcd23]

I believe females should run the whole show.  They should be on top too.

 

Here I have this thoughtful response, and you make it a joke. Love it. And I disagree with women being on top, gotta let me *think* they have control somewhere 

[willowtreewren]

I can't get over that this creep is still ahead in the polls! 

Sorry I haven't been on much lately. Still battling Lyme disease, now with IV antibiotics.... Lots of brain fog and still having trouble talking. But I can write a bit.

 

Aleta

[KAF454]

Actually the latest Rasmussen poll has him 10 points down. My wife and I were discussing the situation this evening and find it disappointing that the party brass who are condemning Mr. Akin do it from the standpoint of the good of the party. Nobody of any stature has come out and said, "He's wrong and he should pay the price for what he said". Instead they say, "He was wrong and he should drop out of the race so the party still has a chance to win that Senate seat."

[jbeany]

To me, the worst of it is the use of the word "legitimate" - as if the only real rape occurs when some thug in a ski-mask drags you into an alley.  Clearly, if you know the guy, it can't be rape, right?  You MUST have led him on...   And hey, just ask Limbaugh - if you are on birth control, you were asking for it.    And while we're at it, if you ever dated him, slept with him willing, had a kid with him, or, god forbid, married him - hey, no whining if he slaps you around a little. 

[willowtreewren]

I thought this mugging analogy put it in perspective!
 
Aleta

[Rerun]

Almost like JOE BIDEN telling a room full of Africian Americans that they will be "back in chains again".  OMG  Glad Ryan didn't say that.....

    

[MooseMom]

Almost like JOE BIDEN telling a room full of Africian Americans that they will be "back in chains again".  OMG  Glad Ryan didn't say that.....

   

He wasn't in a "room full of African Americans".  He was at a campaign event in Danville, Virginia where the audience was described as "diverse".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48706802/ns/local_news-anchorage_ak/t/bidens-unscripted-moments-keep-campaign-its-toes/

In this world of instant news, twitter and such, it is worth seeking out the context of the "gaffes" that any politician makes.  In the case of Mr. Akin, the man clearly does not have accurate knowledge of how a woman's reproductive system actually works.  This, to me, is the true tragedy, that any American population could vote into Congress a person who is so poorly educated and whose party platform denigrates the value of education for all American children.

Mr. Ryan doesn't make "gaffes".  He truly believes in what he says and he says what he means.  When he says he wants to cut funding to social services and public infrastructure and increase funding for defense, he means it.  And when he says that he opposes abortion in ALL cases, even in cases of rape and incest, he means it.


 

[MooseMom]

I find it very interesting that many societies have historically put so much importance on a female's sexual behaviour/status/whatever.  We see "honor killings" in certain Asian cultures.  Many Latin cultures historically link their family honor to their women's virginity.  Even here in the US and in other "western" cultures, there is the ever present double standard with sexually active women still being called sluts.  In the business world, you still hear of women "sleeping their way to the top".  Are men invisible here? 

I can't quite decide if this debate about "the war on women" is yet another manifestation of this seeming cultural need to control women's sexual behaviour or if it is really about abortion.  I don't think anyone is "pro-abortion".  There are many who are "pro-choice", but that is very different from being "pro-abortion".  It's like saying "pro-gun" is the same as being "pro-killing".  Abortion is always a tragedy, and it is always sad.  But what I don't understand is why the pregnant woman herself and her spouse/other children lose all of their value just because she is carrying an unborn embryo.

I have always wondered why we don't ever hear from men whose wives have been raped and have been impregnated as a result.  If you are a man and your wife is raped and is made pregnant, why should you be forced to raise and pay for that child?  Could you ever love that child as much as you love your other children?  But I guess you, as the husband, are not important because it seems that the only thing that is important is the embryo.

People forget that most women have a man or children in their lives who will also be affected by that woman's reproductive choices.  So, it is not a war on just women.  It is also a war on families and the freedom of choice that those families should have.  There seems to be a disconnect between the "sanctity of life" and the "sanctity of the living".  It's seemingly fine to "protect" the life of the unborn, but once that child is born, especially if it is born deformed or disabled or to a poor family, well, suddenly that child just doesn't seem quite so important anymore.

[Rerun]

What do you mean "that child doesn't seem important anymore?"  I guess I don't understand that statement.  Do you mean our society drops the ball on kids with problems? 

The embryo is a child.  The embryo is not going to grow into a puppy or a kitten but a human baby.  Yes I agree abortion is always sad to me and to you, and I truly hope to everyone.  Adoption is an option not used much in America today.  Americans have to go to China or other countries to get a baby.  I would hope that option would be given to a woman before removing the "embryo".


And on the Joe Biden thing.... Anyone in that room should have been offended by what he said.  I just brought it up because that seemed to be swept under the rug so I thought I'd go get it.

[MooseMom]

What do you mean "that child doesn't seem important anymore?"  I guess I don't understand that statement.  Do you mean our society drops the ball on kids with problems? 

Yes, I mean exactly that.  The state I live in ranks 49th in the amount of funding that goes to educating and treating children with disabilities.  Having lived abroad with a child who is autistic, I can tell you from personal experience that American children with disabilities get the short end of the stick, much like American dialysis patients.  And if that child "with problems" is born into a poor family that perhaps relies on Medicaid, then they are really in trouble. 

The embryo is a child.

That's a philosophical argument; not everyone would agree with you.  Why do you get to define "child" for everyone?  Can't a woman be free to come up with her own definition of when an embryo becomes a "child", based upon her own religious and spiritual beliefs and upon her own personal worldview?  Or is this the job of the federal or state government?

Adoption is an option not used much in America today.  Americans have to go to China or other countries to get a baby.  I would hope that option would be given to a woman before removing the "embryo".

I'm sure that most women are smart enough to know that adoption is an option.  Still, I can understand why a woman who got pregnant via rape wouldn't want to continue the pregnancy.  If you don't understand it, that's fine, but that doesn't mean you get to limit a woman's choices.  A woman is more than just a vessel.  Maybe that particular woman doesn't agree with you that her embryo is a "baby".  Maybe she believes that life begins when that life is viable outside of the womb, or maybe she believes that life begins at birth.  Where has this idea come from that life begins at conception?  Even the Catholic Church has not always believed this way!  Goodness, the Catholic Church hasn't even always believed that priests should be celebate?

And on the Joe Biden thing...it has been talked about incessantly and is even now still in the news, what with Rangel's remarks.  I'm unsure as to why you would say it has been "swept under the rug".  Now the media is going to be microscopically picking apart Romney's birther joke and will continue to do so until the next silly thing said by some politician or campaign spokesperson.  And not everyone was offended by what he said because they heard his entire speech and understood the context of the comment.  And Joe Biden is right.  Those big banks ARE going to keep the rest of us in chains, no matter what color you are.

  And on the Joe Biden thing.... Anyone in that room should have been offended by what he said.  I just brought it up because that seemed to be swept under the rug so I thought I'd go get it.

Fixed Quote Error - Bajanne, Moderator

[Rerun]

No, a woman or a man cannot decide that life begins at birth?  Nor can they decide life begins at 2 years old.  That is why the government has to be involved.  Crazy mothers would kill their kids all the time otherwise and get away with it. 

wow imagine that.... mothers killing their kids and getting away with it. 

I'm not going to argue with you on Abortion, pro choice, pro life anymore.  We are going to have to agree to disagree and vote for who we feel will best lead our country.

[MooseMom]

No, a woman or a man cannot decide that life begins at birth?

Men and women decide for themselves all the time when life begins.  If everyone believed that life begins at conception, there would never be this debate in the first place.  There are varying thoughts on when a developing embryo becomes a "baby".  Not everyone feels that a group of cells that may or may not grow into a fully formed child is a "baby." 

Where in the Constitution does it say when life begins?  Where in the Constitution does it say which government body gets to decide how a woman uses birth control or how a woman must be forced to continue a pregnancy?

The Supreme Court has already ruled in the matter, so if you really believe that the government has to be involved, then you can also say that they already have been via the Supreme Court ruling.  If you don't agree with the ruling, then that's your right.  But you have no legal right to make such choices for anyone other than yourself.  If I vehemently believed that no woman should ever have an abortion under any circumstances, my personal belief doesn't give me the right to dictate to anyone else.  That's my point.  It doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe; neither of us have the right to dictate to any other woman which choices she may make.  I personally wouldn't want that responsibility.

[Rerun]

Okay, but why don't we have a RIGHT to vote on what we believe and winner takes all.  The Supreme Court made the decision for us and they could have ruled the opposite way as well and we would all have to live with that.  So, I just think we should get a chance to vote our hearts.

You wondered whoever came up with the thing that life begins at conception?  Well I found it in the Bible and I know your views on that but since you didn't know where it came from like we just pulled it out of our ass (Not being a good christian right now) it is in Jeremiah 1:5.  When God was speaking to Jeremiah he said "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart...."

That right there is higher than any Supreme Court in my eyes.  But, like you said it doesn't matter what I think or you think but I bet it matters what God thinks.


I'm going to stop because I think we are off topic and Gerald is getting too much fun out of this.

[MooseMom]

No one said you shouldn't have the right to vote on what you believe.  That's, of course, if you have the proper ID to vote in the first place because it looks like THAT right is being eroded, especially if you live in a swing state.  I'd like to know what God thinks about THAT. 

I'm concerned that you are framing this discussion in a "you versus we" sort of way because I am not sure who exactly "you" or "we" are.  I am also rather surprised that you seemed to be so sure about my views on the Bible because I am not even sure about my views on the Bible other than that a lot of people seem to cherry pick various passages and come up with wildly differing interpretations.  I am never sure what God thinks, otherwise I'd know why Haiti had suffered such a catastrophic earthquake and now has a tropical storm barrelling toward it.

Why would God choose to form anyone via something as offensive and violent as rape?  Does the Bible address that question?