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Bajanne
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« on: February 14, 2007, 03:17:29 PM »

I wasn't going to post this after thinking about it, but when I saw Angie's post about hurting a nurse's feelings, I had to say this.
I am finding that nurses seem to think that a good dialysis patient is one who comes in, sits quietly until they are put on, then asks for nothing until they are taken off.
Last Monday, I asked my nurse to put my head down a bit.  Her sharp response was that it was at the wall (so? the thing has wheels).  I kept quiet until later when I saw the only nurse here from my country.  I had asked him to do something else before ( like pass me water, or something like that).  His response was an annoyed "you must get these things arranged when you come on". (But I had asked!)  He then proceeded to fix it, by wheeling it forward, and putting my head back.  I really felt badly. One of my lines had fallen, but I kept myself from saying anything because of this attitude.  Later when he came by to check my machine, he saw it and fixed it and I said nothing.   Of the five nurses in our centre, there is only one that doesn't seem to be slightly annoyed when you ask her to do something for you that you can't do for yourself.
What do you guys have to say to this?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 01:20:04 AM by bajanne2000 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 03:39:02 PM »

All I know is I wouldn't put up with it because sooner or later .... I get off the machine and then I'm mobile so watch out!

Get in their face!  That is what I would do. 

I get as much as I can done before I set down, but I will need another glass of ice before the run is over and I may need something like an alcohol wipe or tissue. 

But, again, you are the costumer.  The reason they are getting PAID. 

I also know what it is like to be in a center where they just don't care and you are just a number.  Luckily I have a choice so I moved down the street to a DaVita.  I may not like DaVita, but they do know who the customer is.

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jbeany
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 03:46:45 PM »

  I really felt badly.

Don't.  You weren't the one in the wrong.  They are there to take care of you. 

Here, I think we'd better start handing these out. . .

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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2007, 01:57:54 AM »

It saddens me to hear how you have been treated by nursing staff.  In the unit I was in for a placement (in Scotland), the nursing staff ensured that all patients were comfortable and settled prior to, and throughout the remainder of their treatment.  As a nursing student, I can only apologise for the lack of empathy you experienced, I wonder how well these particular nurses would cope in your situation, I doubt they would be anywhere near as tolerant as you are. 

 Kindest regards

Dorris
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angieskidney
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2007, 04:04:58 AM »

I wasn't going to post this after thinking about it, but when I saw Angie's post about hurting a nurse's feelings, I had to say this.
I am finding that nurses seem to think that a good dialysis patient is one who comes in, sits quietly until they are put on, then asks for nothing until they are taken off.
Last Monday, I asked my nurse to put my head down a bit. Her sharp response was that it was at the wall (so? the thing has wheels). I kept quiet until later when I saw the only nurse here from my country. I had asked him to do something else before ( like pass me water, or something like that). His response was an annoyed "you must get these things arranged when you come on". (But I had asked!) He then proceeded to fix it, by wheeling it forward, and putting my head back. I really felt badly. One of my lines had fallen, but I kept myself from saying anything because of this attitude. Later when he came by to check my machine, he saw it and fixed it and I said nothing. Of the five nurses in our centre, there is only one that doesn't seem to be slightly annoyed when you ask her to do something for you that you can't do for yourself.
What do you guys have to say to this?

Wow! I know exactly what you mean! I swear the same thing you do "... a good dialysis patient is one who comes in, sits quietly until they are put on, then asks for nothing until they are taken off."  They hate when I question because they say I distract them from concentrating on what they are doing. When I have asked for ice in the past the nurse said I shouldn't have that much while on dialysis (ice?? Geeze I calculate everything and always get to my target perfectly without my BP dropping lately!)

In regards to the chair being close to the wall: HOW is that YOUR fault? The wheels are locked and you didn't move it to the wall did you? It is manditory that they are able to put your head back incase you crash. What would happen if you crashed? Would they still stand over you and argue that your chair is too close to the wall while your BP drops and you pass out??

These nurse .. geeze!!  :banghead;  I am glad not ALL are like that!!



oh and to JBeany I cut out the white space from your image k? :)  I also saved it as a different format so that it can be transparent (notice no white?)
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 04:24:14 AM »

I guess people are so busy they forget they deal with....PEOPLE!  As far as I am concerned that behavior was reprehensible in general, and even worse for a health care worker. 

As I said in my intro, I like to have some fun, and the people in my center know I will get them anything they need, but it may take me a few minutes (coffee, ice, water--if everybody is not on their treatment).  But putting a chair back is too easy and personally I would have done it right away.  I usually make sure everything I can do at that moment to make sure you are comfortable is done before I walk away and bring someone else into the unit.  It's just common courtesy.

I'm sorry you had to endure this treatment.  It makes me and others who really care look bad.

Keep your spirits up, they can't take that away from you!



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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2007, 07:43:34 AM »

Most dialysis staff are pretty decent people but some can be rude, loud, and downright obnoxious.  While getting in someone's face might provide a moment of satisfaction consider this,  that person you are mad at might be the person who is sticking you in two days, is going to respond to your alarming machine, or a mid treatment complication you might have.  Do you really want to piss that person off?

One thing that worked for me in extreme cases like where a person was a lousy stick or an inexperienced "trainee", was just letting it be known that the person in question was not to touch me.  We all encounter a good number of trainee techs (all techs learn on the job) and it was my policy to not let those people practice their technique on my fistula.  It doesn't take much to wreck a new or immature fistula so experience really counts when dealing with one.

Dialysis units are a sort of small town in themselves.  Everybody knows everyone's business and gossip travels fast from staff to staff, staff to patient, and patient to patient.  Also for all the expense of dialysis, the people working in the unit without a nursing degree are fairly poorly paid.  The difference in pay between a nurse and a tech who do essentially the same job most of the time is spectacular.  A poorly paid person working alongside a well compensated one and doing the same work if not more is probably going to demonstrate that difference in attitude.

So chill a little and try to put up with some of the staff bs.  It's all over in four hours anyhow.
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angieskidney
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 08:39:53 AM »

One thing that worked for me in extreme cases like where a person was a lousy stick or an inexperienced "trainee", was just letting it be known that the person in question was not to touch me.  We all encounter a good number of trainee techs (all techs learn on the job) and it was my policy to not let those people practice their technique on my fistula.  It doesn't take much to wreck a new or immature fistula so experience really counts when dealing with one.

Oh there was a trainee just last week and I made it clear that she was NOT to stick me and I was soooooo glad when my favourite nurse (the same one who said I hurt the other nurses' feelings in the other thread) backed me up that time and said she agreed that the trainee should just watch when it comes to me. PHEW!!!

Just cuz they are learning doesn't give them the right to all of our arms!!


As for you saying we should just put up with it since it is just 4 hrs.. I am sorry but I want to take the best care of my fistula that I can. I think it depends on each individual situation. But when it comes to Bajanne wanting the head of her chair put back, there should not have been such a problem. I was told that they are required to be able to put it back . Just 4 hrs but at the last hour of that 4 hrs any patient can feel pretty crappy and you depend on the nurses (or techs) very much to do their job right. We didn't ask to be on dialysis but they did decide to get into this field.
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 10:06:20 AM »

I didn't really say just put up with it for four hours.  What I mean is that you have to be your own advocate  which means looking out for yourself.  You definetly have the right to refuse bad service (bad or trainee techs) but you want to do it in such a way that they don't end up hating you.  You don't want to be labeled the difficult patient which if that happens can mean badness for you over months and years.  It is more of a balancing issue between your interests and you being seen as fairly cooperative and not a complainer. 
I hope that made sense because I really don't know anything anyway!  :clap;





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angieskidney
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2007, 10:13:33 AM »

I didn't really say just put up with it for four hours.  What I mean is that you have to be your own advocate  which means looking out for yourself.  You definetly have the right to refuse bad service (bad or trainee techs) but you want to do it in such a way that they don't end up hating you.  You don't want to be labeled the difficult patient which if that happens can mean badness for you over months and years.  It is more of a balancing issue between your interests and you being seen as fairly cooperative and not a complainer.  I hope that made sense because I really don't know anything anyway!  :clap;
Ah yes! Good advice!  :2thumbsup; After all we know our care and future lies in their hands. Like when the docs see us as noncompliant it results in us not getting on the transplant, it is the same for the dialysis unit and our care there. If we are seen as difficult patients then we probably won't be put on in a timely manner and they will make sure not to walk past us so we won't be able to ask for ice :P
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2007, 01:56:22 PM »

It doesn't matter if you are a black sheep or a "model" patient they are never on time to get us hooked up.
I AM the black sheep.  It only took 15 months for them the listen to me when I told them that the needles
are too long for my fistula!!  THEY have made me angry and non-compliant.  I hate dialysis just as much today
as the day I started.  I hate how loud they act screaming and laughing non-stop.  I will not let any new tech
come near me.  My fistula still gives me pain and if they want me to still be their patient they better have an
experienced tech handle me.  I don't like them and they don't like me.  I have no respect for any of the
staff (doctors, nurses, social workers, tech).  I know my body the best. They THINK they know everything.
I despise them. I don't think changing centers would help. It is all the same crap no matter where you go.
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angieskidney
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2007, 03:33:12 PM »

It doesn't matter if you are a black sheep or a "model" patient they are never on time to get us hooked up.
I AM the black sheep.  It only took 15 months for them the listen to me when I told them that the needles
are too long for my fistula!
!  THEY have made me angry and non-compliant.  I hate dialysis just as much today
as the day I started.  I hate how loud they act screaming and laughing non-stop.  I will not let any new tech
come near me.  My fistula still gives me pain and if they want me to still be their patient they better have an
experienced tech handle me.  I don't like them and they don't like me.  I have no respect for any of the
staff (doctors, nurses, social workers, tech).  I know my body the best. They THINK they know everything.
I despise them. I don't think changing centers would help. It is all the same crap no matter where you go.
How do you know they are too long? I have thought mine was too long but I don't know for sure. I have noticed though that even in the best spot (which we have made into buttonholes) I can feel the tip of the needle in my arm. My fistula is very snakey so the needle sticks out at the curve. Good thing I am using blunts now! No more infiltrations! ;) But I know what you mean about the nurses not listening. I have been saying a few things all along and I get the impression they just want you to sit and shut up and let them do their job.
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2007, 04:59:31 PM »

Move over all your beitches, the president of the club has arrived.  I am going to take the sign and wear it to dialysis and see what they say.
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 06:44:59 PM »

Move over all your beitches, the president of the club has arrived.  I am going to take the sign and wear it to dialysis and see what they say.
Are you serious?? lol If you DO then make sure you get someone to take a picture of it! Too bad we can't see their reactions lol :P  :clap;
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 07:09:38 PM »

So chill a little and try to put up with some of the staff bs.  It's all over in four hours anyhow.

Chill?? Chill?? Hell no she shouldn't Chill, not only is she a patient, she is a human being and she deserves a decent and courtesy response to whatever it is she is asking for.  If we all just chilled everytime they said some stupid remark or made an ugly face, then they would continue doing it because we are just "dealing with it"  or "chilling"  i dont think so!!

Bajanne,  i remember visiting my Gramma in the Convalescent Hospital and she always had such a great attitude,  oh but let me tell you, she can tell who was having a "bad day"  she would tell them stuff like,  you would be so much prettier if you smiled, or i am sorry for whatever made you mad,  she was always telling them things like that and once they realized they couldnt fool my gramma, they would come in a little more pleasant  :2thumbsup;   Tell them a smart remark like that (but be pleasant about it)  it will be like a slap in the face to them  :clap;
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2007, 09:28:43 PM »

This works everytime for me.   Are you having a bad day or did I piss you off?  They start apologizing right away. hehe
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2007, 09:49:49 PM »

I'm sorry to read that many patients think so little of their nurses and other staff; yes, there are bad ones - some very bad ones - but there are also some that do care.  Often, they are overlooked (or outnumbered by the bad ones).  Believe me, outpatient dialysis is not a specialty of choice for many nurses (especially RNs) because - among other things - the hours are bad, the work is hard, and the respect is often lacking.  But some of us do it just because we like working with the patients (and some because they are burned out and just don't care anymore). 

DeLana

P.S.  Regarding one comment that techs and nurses do basically the same work and the techs therefore have a right to a bad attitude (because they supposedly are paid much less for the same work) - that's a common misconception, I assure you that nurses are responsible for a whole lot more than techs are, but it does not necessarily appear that way to the patients (and some techs call themselves "nurses" - who wears a name tag anyway? - further complicating the situation).  There is no excuse for anyone working with patients having a bad attitude - if they don't like their job (and the pay), they should leave.  JMHO.
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 01:39:29 AM »

Let me clarify this a bit more.  The nurses in my unit are friendly and professional.  And the annoyance when you have to ask for things is never openly expressed.  It is just made clear that they are busy and you are a bit of a bother.  If you stay quiet for the four hours and ask for nothing, then everything is hunkydory, and they are as pleasant as you could want.
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 05:41:26 AM »

Angie,
   I am not one of those that "follow" the crowd.  Dialysis IS NOT one size fits all even though they want you to think it is.
After 15 months of complaining about the arm is total pain, it came to ME that maybe a needle shorter than 1" would sit
better in my arm.  So FINALLY they ordered them and guess what?  I don't have the pain radiating thru my fistula and
hopefully never have them infalltrate again.  It amazes me that I had to come up with this conclusion. I try to be civil to
the staff but some days it just gets to be too much.  They should listen to us more!!!!!
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 09:07:07 AM »

I have a great team in my center, but if you get a bad nurse...don't take it!....I would not confront her, I would send a letter to the management and do a formal complaint. I have done it in the past and it works. A nurse with attitude or lack of compassion is like a bird without feathers (?)....don't take it. is hard as is to be on dialysis and on top of that to take bad service or attitude....don't think so!
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