Do I need to take this further?

[cariad]

Hello! Issues with my little boy and his maddeningly poor luck with teachers:

I have to tell a lengthy back story that speaks to my relationship with his teacher, and this school's priorities. Stop me if you've heard this before (skip down the page), cannot remember if I've already mentioned some of it.

In December Liot came home and casually reported that he had been 'tackled' on the playground by two of his friends and 3 boys that he did not know who were accusing him of hurting their friend. That's five kids ganged up on my little guy. No one from his school mentioned this. I went to his teacher the next morning and repeated Liot's very consistent story, including the part where he said he couldn't tell a teacher because he couldn't find one. To which his teacher replied 'Elliot!' in a scolding tone. K (the teacher) told me that she was not on playground assignment that day and I told her that I needed to know who was. She went over to her calendar, checked, and gave 3 names: M, A, and a woman I do not know. Both M and A are Aidan's former teachers and I adore them both, so I said I would talk to M and K replied "He usually only watches the older kids" Then I said "Fine, then I talk to A" "She's not in today." Jesus, my child was assaulted. Fine, third choice it is, what grade does she teach?

I was on my way to the office to demand to speak to teacher #3 when I ran into La Directoria and told her I must speak with her immediately. She took it seriously, I told her Elliot's story and how he reported little details like "I don't know all the kids who tackled me because I couldn't see" and when I told him how scary this all sounded and asked if it was scary, he replied "Well, it was painful." How I got through that conversation without crying I do not know. La Directoria requested that I not speak to #3 because she would like time to do her own investigation, and I said fine. At least she was listening to me.

There was only a week or so to go and we all went on Christmas holiday. Then the boys returned to school for 3 days or so in early January. During that time, Liot's teacher K emails me to say that Elliot has been singing a song with the word 'booty' in it and how this is giving her the vapors and offending the delicate sensibilities of her class of delicate, high-minded five year olds. I think back to New Years Eve and blasting silly songs like 'Shake Your Booty' and 'Get Down Tonight' with the boys while dancing round the great room. I write her back and say I will talk to him about it and that I need to know what has been done about Elliot being tackled on the playground because I need to be able to report to him that the school considers his safety a top priority. I reiterate that to her in person, walking through the door and hearing another little boy say "Elliot was bad today! He keeps saying bad words!" while K tries to impress upon me the unparalleled horror of being subjected to hearing my son sing a song with the word 'butt' in it. She said to me "I'm sure he could sing it for you - not that you want to hear it." This woman does not know me at all.

In the car, I try to get Elliot to sing the song, but he thinks he'll be in huge trouble so refuses. Finally, he blurts out 

I like big butts and I cannot lie! 

It is just about the cutest thing ever, so I tell him that he knows that there are things he can do at home that he cannot do at school or at the afterschool, so please stop.

We go to California.

We return and the 3 of us are dragging through that first week. Every day I go there that same little kid is there to tell me how naughty Elliot is. I tell him that I only want to hear these reports from their teacher. On the third day back, K tells me that Liot was "slow to clean up" (really??) and I say "he's exhausted" and the crazy lady argues with me and tells me that no he's not, he doesn't look exhausted. I tell her in a sharp tone that I am troubled by the lack of privacy shown to my son, that this is the third time some kid has told me that Elliot's been so bad, and that I only expect to hear this from her from now on. She is startled and mutters "that's understandable". As an aside, the next day I walked in and a little boy said "Elliot was so nice today!" This is one of the little kids that attacked him on the playground, but he is just too adorable and I know five-year-olds do those things and go straight back to being best friends, so I thanked him for telling me and being so sweet.

I think Liot's teacher must have recalled that I'd demanded to know what happened on the playground, because the next morning, just as I was about to say something, La Directoria greeted me with "There you are! I just wanted to follow up with you about the incident on the playground." So, anyway, it was mostly just administrative political bollocks, but at least she got back to me.

K emails me again at some point. I offer to meet with her to discuss and she dances around that suggestion. I want to bring in S from the afterschool program who has offered to mediate discussion and give suggestions, but this woman does not strike me as the type to take that suggestion well, so I leave S out of it.

Then we get to Valentine's Day. I have been so sick. Over the weekend I had to decide whether or not to send any Valentines to school with the boys. It is usually expensive and annoying. Well, a note sent home by K made the decision for me: you must write all kids names on the Valentines or they will not be given out () please no candy, any candy will given will be sent home with the kids not and not allowed in class, you must send a Valentine to every child (no problem there, I would never dream of excluding kids). I talk to the boys and decide it is not worth the hours of effort and they understand. Valentine's Day was a Tuesday so normally I would have gone direct to school to collect the boys, but I was so sick that I told them to take the bus to aftercare and I would collect them from there. They love afterschool, so were fine with that.

I come to find out, haltingly, through my child's quivering voice, that K would not let him take his Valentines home because he did something, but he was not even sure what it was that he did. Two other kids also had their Valentines withheld. So, I have to deal with a sad child on Valentine's Day, with his dad across the country and being feverish and nauseated, and she has broken her own rule about not excluding any children. My nine-year-old offers I got a lot of candy today, I'll share with you, Elliot. What the hell kind of teacher is this? What right does she have to withhold gifts from other children to my little boy, taking away my right to decide whether my child should get a special treat on a supposedly special day. I am fuming. I am really starting to detest this woman. Gwyn was ready to ring her up and let her have it, but I told him not to bother. I told little Elliot that I would get his candy for him the very next day.

So, I get to school yesterday and see 3 bags sitting there, one has Elliot's name on it. I grab it, turn to the art teacher (a real sweetheart) and say 'is this Elliot's Valentine candy?' She says she does not know. I tell her I am really angry at how this was handled and she is clearly uncomfortable but nods sympathetically and says that she wasn't there on Valentine's Day. I say fine, I'll leave it there and I expect it to be given to him by K and the art teacher says "I'm sure you can just take it" to which I answer that I will do that, and if K asks, just tell her I took it without asking because I don't want to cause any trouble between the two of them. I added "She'll believe you. She and I have had words in the past...." and I left. Well, apparently K did not notice until the afternoon when the art teacher had gone. She asked Elliot if I took the candy, he said "I think so" and she said (to my child!!!) "That is unacceptable." When Elliot told me that she said that, I replied Oh, did she? Unacceptable? You know what is unacceptable? Badmouthing me to my own child. THAT is unacceptable. Then Liot reported that he was so good today that K let him have an extra snack. Gwyn and I both interpreted this in exactly the same way: she knew that holding back their candy was wrong and she was trying to make up for it rather than just address it and apologise like a mature person.

So, not sure where to go from here, if anywhere. You must be very consistent with small children, and she should have a procedure in place for discipline that does not rely on it being a holiday. What is she going to do next? Take a special treat out of his lunchbox because she's annoyed with him? Gwyn wants to phone La Directoria. K is all about giving me the evil eye but she has not emailed me, perhaps because she knows that I am so angry at this point that I will tell her off if given an opening. Should I address this with her or just let it blow over? Should I go talk to sympathetic S about this down at the aftercare? Thank in advance for reading and offering any opinions.

[jbeany]

Sounds to me like she doesn't get along with the other teachers either.  Because of that, you are unlikely to end up in a situation where confronting her gives you a problem in the future with other teachers at school. I say let her have it.  Honestly, there's nothing worse than a bad teacher at that age.

I tutored an incoming freshman in college.  She was insistent that all the teachers hated her and none of them were ever going to give her a fair break.  I knew these professors, was friends with several of them, and couldn't figure it out.  I finally got her to talk about herself.  Her parents went through an ugly, ugly divorce when she was in 4th grade.  She was acting out in class, and getting in squabbles with her classmates.  Not exactly unusual under the circumstances.
Her teacher decided to handle this "delinquent" child by separating her from her classmates.  She did so by pushing the girl's desk into a dark corner of the room, and shoving two empty bookcases around it, leaving only enough room to squeeze into the seat.  The poor kid spent the entire year wedged into a corner, unable to see or be seen, ignored, not called upon, and left out of every class activity.  This was her punishment for needing help coping with her parents' constant fighting.  Her parents, of course, were too wrapped up in themselves to even realize what was going on, so neither of them went to bat for her against this witch.
Well heck, no wonder she thought teachers hated her.

My 3rd grade teacher constantly picked on one of our main-streamed special ed students, thinking public humiliation would make him pay attention in class and act like everyone else.  She expected the rest of us to laugh at him with her.  It was horrifying to watch, and even worse to be a part of because I had no power to stop her, and didn't have the life experience to figure out how to cope with it.

Elliot, unfortunately, is going to learn the lesson I did in 3rd grade - that adults are not always right, or sensible, or kind. Just make sure that he knows you are going to stand there for him.

[cariad]

Oh, thanks so much, jbeany. Wow, those are despicable stories. How completely sad, my heart breaks for kids who have to endure these tortures, and it is torture.

I will go speak to her. I think I am going to see if S is available for a pep talk first. She likely won't be able to come with me as her schedule conflicts with when I can expect to find K available, but I do not think it is healthy for any of these kids to see this tension between K and me play out before them.

Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction.

[cariad]

Oh, and jbeany, that was a completely rock-star thing you did for that incoming freshman. Poor girl. I am so glad she had you to talk to as I doubt most tutors could have been bothered to scratch beneath the surface.

Well done, you!

[jbeany]

Oh, and jbeany, that was a completely rock-star thing you did for that incoming freshman. Poor girl. I am so glad she had you to talk to as I doubt most tutors could have been bothered to scratch beneath the surface.

Well done, you!

 

[amanda100wilson]

Have it ou with her.  When my son was in preschool, there was a teacher who I don't think liked her job very much.  I gleaned this from helping out one day when she had a really bad attitude towards a little girl who asked her for an idea for something to draw.  However, I don't think that she liked my son too much eithet because he had gone past napping at nap times and From what Blake has told me, she used to be mean to him.  I didn't know this at the time, but several years later we were talking about his preschool and I said how great I thought that the place was and Blake suddenly said "except for Miss Lisa, she was mean and I don't think that she liked me.". Just wish that I'd known at the time.  The point that I am making is that something that is seemingly trivial to an adult can be important to a child and leave an impressionable memory.

[billybags]

Yes there are some mean teachers out there. My grandson had lots of problems with one when he was 8, he had been doing really well in school until he hit here class. Apparently she was not fond of boys. He had a terrible time work wise. The following year when he move up it was wonderful to see his grades picked up and his confidence came back. My daughter did have words with the teacher and the head and when it was time for the granddaughter to move up she told the head master in no uncertain terms  not to put her into her class. There were also other parents who had problems with her. I always say, listen to your child. .

[kitkatz]

If you decide to have it out with the teacher, remember teachers are only human beings trying to do a monstrous job often with little or no help.  Try to see both sides and go talk to her. Sometimes teachers are having bad years personally and do not realize it has spilled into their classroom life.

[kevinswife]

It doesn't seem right that the teacher would not let some of the kids take their Valentines home.     I probably would have done the same thing that you did and collect the Valentines myself.  What would she have used for punishment if it wasn't Valentine's Day?  At my son's elementary school, the kids get "color changes" if they do something "wrong".  Everyday, each child starts out on "blue".  If they get in trouble for something (like talking when they were asked to be quiet) their color changes to "green".  This is kind of a warning to the child.  Some kids cry when they get a color change because the teacher will write a note in the child's take home folder.  That way, the parent will know that their child got a color change and why.  If the child continues to act out, their color changes to "yellow".   Next is "orange" and then "red".  If they get on "red" the child has to go to the principal's office.  Lucky, my son has only gotten on "green".

As far as the other child telling you that your son had been "bad", the teacher probably doesn't have much control over that.  However, she should tell him to stop tattling.  My son hardly ever gets a color change, but when he does, his class mates can't wait to tell me!  When he does get in trouble, it is usually for talking in class. 

[willowtreewren]

I wanted to weigh in on this earlier, but it has been a rather stressful week and I just did not have the time until now to do so.

But let me pick up where Kitkatz left off. I take it this is a rather young teacher. And, no, I’m not going to excuse her, because she definitely should NOT have withheld the Valentines. I do want to look at the larger picture, though.

I am imagining this whole scenario from both a teacher’s and administrator’s perspective, because I have to fill both those roles in communications with parents. And first off, I’m going to say that the absolute worst time to try to deal with ANY issue is during arrivals and departures. There are many reasons that this is not a good time. For one thing, teachers are trying to juggle messages, children, parents, and sometimes discipline issues all at once. Any transition time is an opportunity when kids intuitively know the teacher is distracted. That makes those times ripe for acting up…. So please don’t add to the frustrations of this teacher by making her immediate job harder for her.

Another important reason that this is not a good time to conduct a discussion is that children (including yours and others) and parents often overhear these exchanges. That is not good at all….like the child who “reported” on Liot. It just shouldn’t be happening. Plus the teacher cannot give her full attention to the conversation.

So, I really want to elaborate on why it is important that Liot not be listening in on these conversations (with later clarification). Children have this wonderful sense of how to say things in a way that will get their parents to champion a cause. Of course, as a parent you WANT to be his champion, but there are times that this may not be the best thing to do. Children intuitively know how to give the “facts” with a strong bias to cast themselves in a favorable light. As an example, I remember my daughter coming home form school once complaining about how unfair a teacher had been. She went on and on and painted quite a “wondrous” picture of unfair treatment. She effectively fanned the embers of the mother hen in me and I was ready to leap into action. When I indignantly said that I was going to call the teacher and demand to know what she was thinking, my daughter backed down very quickly. It was an interesting experience for me, since I had been my daughter’s  teacher for most of her life. This happened the first year she was in public school. I realized that she had embellished her story and left out certain pertinent aspects of it. It isn’t exactly lying, but kids want to tell things to parents that they think the parents want to hear and/or that they think will encourage parents to give them attention. That attention can be good, bad, or ugly. Kids simply want and need attention. So if Liot learns that it is likely that you will be confronting his teacher (giving him attention) because of certain kinds of reports of things happening at school, those kinds of reports will increase, without his really thinking about doing that. One of the things I tell parents who start getting all sorts of “bad” self-reporting, is to start giving it less attention and start giving lots of attention for reporting of the enjoyable things about school. This actually helps children to focus on more positive things, too.

Please understand that I am advocating that we don’t listen to children. I don’t believe that for a minute. BUT, it is important to watch how we listen and how we react.

Getting back to having Liot hearing your conversations with his teacher, I would make an exception in this way: you are having a conference with his teacher and you would like him to be a part of it. There is an important reason to do this. As several people have said, impressions that children get when they are young can be lasting…. And sometimes their perceptions of what has happened may not be accurate. That doesn’t matter, because it is the perception that makes the difference. So if children develop the perception that there is an adversarial relationship between parents and teachers, this will flavor their whole school experience. So it is especially important to include them in conferences to help them see that the adults in their lives all want what is best for them. This creates an atmosphere of support across the school and home venues. It also helps the teacher see the child more through the parents’ eyes. At any rate, it is important to do everything possible to avoid an adversarial relationship, because the only loser in that situation is the child. This is why I strongly suggest that you do not “have it out” with the teacher. Certainly, take time to find out what is happening so you can offer your perspective, your support, and your input.

I can imagine that this young teacher may have her hands full. And, I know you realize that Liot can be challenging at times. I would strongly suggest that when you do go to talk with her, you approach the conference as a time to share observations, and brainstorm strategies to help Liot be more successful. That is what teachers want for their students, too.

Teaching children is one of the hardest careers around. People go into teaching with high ideals and good hearts. The first 5 years are the hardest, often without enough support from administration and parents to grow in experience that produces master teachers. Teaching children is tough, tough, tough, and not getting any easier. Your support can help this teacher and in so doing, help Liot and countless children coming after him.

 

[cariad]

Thank you so much, everyone.

It's been a hectic week so I have not taken the time to address this yet. After reading what Aleta wrote and letting a week go by, I think I am in a much better place to talk to this teacher, and have requested a few minutes of her time after the kids are gone for the day. She said fine.

Aleta, your response was so informative and simply amazing. It's true that arrivals and departures are terrible times to try to talk to her, but of course they are the times I am there, so I have not been giving that proper consideration. I did email her last month and suggest we discuss strategies for dealing with Liot's challenging behaviour and she basically wrote me back to say 'we can meet if you want, but WHAT challenging behaviour?' Perhaps I was misinterpreting her, but if a child's own mother is saying to you 'look, I know this kid can push every button you have in the first 3 minutes of school' and she cannot even say 'I would welcome the opportunity to trade strategies with you' then my feeling was she was feeling threatened, like I was going to start dictating how she does her job.

I have been told she is older than she looks, which she would have to be since she looks about 20. I am also told she came out of the M-Tech program (I think that's what it's called?) This is where they recruit teachers from math and science-based professions, and I believe it is obvious with her that teaching 5-year-olds was not her original plan for life. She strikes me as regimented in her approach, I get no feeling of warmth from her, though I think her organizational skills would be a huge asset. I think this is her fourth or fifth year in her role at the school. She clearly has been doing something right - Elliot can read fluently in English and Spanish (I only just discovered his Spanish literacy over the weekend). I suspect Liot's intelligence actually annoys her. That is part of what I could help her with, but she does not seem interested. It is difficult to be corrected by a five-year-old, especially one with whom you have no particular emotional bond. You have to have a sense of humor about it, especially for those occasions where he is right and you have to gracefully admit defeat. One struggle I really have with her is that she has a tendency to take a defensive stance almost immediately, and she is one who will just keep talking so that you do not feel you have the opportunity to state your position. Gwyn has suggested a strategy I think I'll use: let her say everything she has to say, then state "OK, now please let me respond."

Anyhow, keeping in mind what Aleta and others have written, I am going to tell her today that I was not happy that she kept his Valentine candy. I suspect she will tell me how wrong I was to take the bag without asking. Since I do not want to tell her that I did ask (and if the art teacher had not been there I would not have asked) I will tell her that I had promised Elliot I would get those Valentines for him at my next opportunity, and to be honest, I was too angry to discuss this calmly with her and she was too busy since she was leading a gaggle of children toward the room as I was leaving. I can understand why she would feel my behaviour was wrong and I can accept that and resolve to handle it more maturely in the future, but at the time I was reacting to her mistake and so I will stop short of apologising for taking the candy if she brings that up.

Beyond that, I just need to tell her that I think she made a mistake, I know she deeply upset my child, and that I would hope she would just stick with standard disciplinary procedures in future. I feel that it should be a parent's choice whether or not he receives candy on a holiday and that I felt my authority as a mother was being undermined. She could have written me a note in his folder (our 'parent communicator') or phoned or emailed and told me whatever he did, then I would have been better prepared to address it with him and team up with her instead of feeling like I had no choice but to back my child against her.

Well, if I manage to say all that it will be a miracle, but I will try to at least hit the important points.

Thank you all for the support. I am so grateful that you all took the time to read my sob story about something as trivial as Valentine candy and that you all got that to a five-year-old this was one of the greatest injustices imaginable. 

[jbeany]

 

Waiting for the rest of the story!

[cariad]

Ah, it's a bit anti-climactic, I'm afraid.

I made an appointment to meet her after school, explained my position and she did not interrupt me, but i don't think we made any progress. She said Liot "just wasn't ready" to take his Valentines home and when I said "what does that mean?" she did not really have an answer, she just countered that another teacher also withheld Valentines. I so wanted to rejoin with some teacher-y response like "If another teacher jumped off a cliff, would you?" She said another parent came to collect their child and asked why the child was not allowed to take their Valentines home and the teacher said she explained (with the 'just not ready' line) and the mother answered 'OK'. Well, I'm not that mother, am I? I finally got tired of her non-answers and said we were going to have to disagree, but if I had been there to collect Liot on Valentines we would have had that argument in front of all the children. I forgot to tell her that it was totally wrong of her to speak ill of me in front of my child. It did allow me to give a powerful lesson to my kids though: there is a point where you just have to let it go and move on. That was really all I was able to salvage from this.

Now, however, she's back on my list. Today, not one, not two, but THREE children reported Liot's behaviour to me before I could even get to the door. The third kid said as she was leaving the classroom "Elliot said he was wearing underwear" to which I shot back "I don't see the problem with that to be perfectly honest" The teacher was right there and said nothing, but yes, she was in the midst of dismissal. Then a fourth child said to me "You know what?" and I did not even wait, I snapped "I don't want to hear it" and his little jaw dropped. What is the culture of this classroom that all of these children are rushing to report Liot to his mother? It makes me feel like the whole class is ganging up on my son and that this is being encouraged by the teacher.

Liot never wants to tell me what the problem is because he has no sense of whether he will be in trouble or not. He finally told me that when the teacher handed out a flier about Wacky Wednesday (which is tomorrow, thanks so much for the notice!) it talked about how they can dress up in a 'wacky' fashion. Anyhow, as they were discussing this and she was passing out this flier, Liot told me that he said "I'm going to wear underwear on my head" then he quickly added very nervously to me "which is not going to happen." I called Gwyn immediately when I got home. I am just done with this woman. I seriously want her so far away from my son that I am thinking of begging the afterschool program to take Liot back. I so wanted him to learn Spanish but his mental health is more important to me than that. He makes an innocent little joke and she threatened to not give him a flier so that what? I wouldn't know about Wacky Wednesday? He would be excluded from something else? Gwyn has a call in to La Directoria, not that she has ever returned a phone call, but we'll see. She has been out and Aidan's English teacher has been acting principal. If La Directoria is not back tomorrow I am going to talk to him, I would much rather deal with him because he has way more incentive to keep me on his side than the current headmistress. I don't understand why my son is not even allowed to joke and more importantly why she cannot handle this without threats.

When Aidan was 3 he was full-time at the daycare centre which becomes an afterschool program when they are older. His Master Teacher at that age was a lovely woman (she's still around) and she told us that 3 is the age where they start with the bathroom talk and it becomes the funniest thing in the world to them. Liot is still in that phase. She once advised Gwyn and me that when that happens try saying "Oh, you're using a lot of bathroom words, you must need to go to the bathroom" lead them to the bathroom and walk out, leaving them there. She said it completely derails them because they are just so bewildered as to how they wound up in the lavatory. I've tried it, it does work. Liot is being penalized and excluded for his personality, which is much like his brothers in that he loves to joke and try to make people laugh. I asked him if he wanted to leave the school and he said "Well, I don't really like it there but I have a friend named O. and I would miss him." (I love that he told me his friend's name as if I had no idea this boy existed.) He actually has quite a few friends there, but also has many friends at the other school. I have even unloaded on Aidan and told him that I don't know what to do anymore. He feels the stress of this, too. He hates seeing his little brother mistreated.

[cariad]

Massive update!

After all the fuming yesterday and multiple phone calls about Liot's teacher threatening to not give him a flier for Wacky Wednesday, and the prof in my night class continuing to talk 10 minutes past the end of class (finally had to just walk out) I woke up early to collect Liot's 'wacky' outfit. I pulled out a pair of plaid trousers from LL Bean that we call his 'pajama pants' because they look like flannel pajama pants but are meant for daywear. Over that I put a pair of red shorts, and he wore his Superman shirt backward and two different color socks. No underwear on his head! I then attempted a fauxhawk. My kids have thick hair with quite a bit of curl, so the gel I had was just not strong enough. I even tried hairspray and pure aloe vera gel, but could not really get it to stick up. It was rainy all day so I do not think the humidity helped. I then pulled out the purple and green hair paint and gave him a green stripe on top with purple on the sides. This caused a sensation at school. One friend of Aidan's, a young girl who always passes by his class, called out 'Elliot has the coolest hair today'. The 5-year-olds were so stupefied they could barely comment. Then they all line up as usual to have their daily greeting. Absolutely no recognition on the teacher's part of any of the effort the kids had gone to to really have fun with the day.

I decided I was going to go talk to S. at the aftercare program. Walked in with their piano books because they have their lessons today and she asked how I was and I said I frankly think I may be losing my mind. I have no idea what this teacher expects of Elliot and so how is he supposed to figure it out. Now S. works for the top daycare in the state, this place is legendary. The administration of the university keeps trying to cut the school all together and the parents, consisting of students, alums, professors, support staff, and members of the public, continue to rise up and sort them out on that one. They have finally permanently bowed to pressure to keep the school but are relocating it next year. Anyhow, S really knows her early childhood development. When I told her about Elliot's underwear comment she said 'That's pretty wacky, wouldn't you say? He's getting into it.' She demonstrated what should have happened, and it went something like this: 'Wow, underwear on your head, that is really wacky. Hmmm, but do you think that's appropriate for school? I think that would be really funny for you to try at home, your mom might appreciate that.' Then she said 'And if the kid then comes to school with underwear on his head, you deal with it.' (Why can't she be Elliot's kindergarten teacher? )

Then I mentioned the Valentines. She absolutely lost it. You should have texted me and I would have shot right over to that school and got those Valentines for him. I would have said 'I am the mother's representative and you are going to hand them over now.' Oh, it was so refreshing talking to her. I mentioned the teacher saying my behaviour was unacceptable TO MY CHILD and she said 'you need to document all of this.' She then gave me a quick lesson in my legal rights: She told me that I need to draw up a list of what I will and will not allow in terms of discipline and present it to the school. She said that I should never let him be denied recess (I think I mentioned that they did this over a stupid art project) that anything he does not finish needs to be sent home as homework, that for health reasons he needs his time to run around and play. She also said that I have a legal right to mediation with the teacher and la directoria, and that I can bring whomever I want as a support person, and as many people as I want. She said 'they will never tell you this, my daughters teachers never did and I struggled for years.' I asked 'So, I have a legal right to demand these things'. She just looked at me as if she couldn't believe I would ask this and she responded 'You are his mother!' I said 'That's what I thought, but this school has me doubting everything.'

So, I was all wound up and ready to state my case to la directoria. I charged over to the school, told the receptionist that I had hit my breaking point and needed to discuss this immediately, and miracle of miracles, la directoria was available. She said she was very surprised and distressed to get the message from Gwyn. I told her everything. The reports from the other kids, the Valentines, Wacky Wednesday, the statement from Liot that he doesn't really like school, the suspicion I have that K does not even like my child, the arguing with me over whether he was exhausted or not, and I did not forget to mention that she told my child that my behaviour was unacceptable. At one point I told her how Aidan had to fix the Valentine situation and I said 'R, my nine-year-old should not be forced to be the adult at this school.' She said she agreed with me completely about the Valentines, that that should never have happened. We had a bit of a spirited chat about the recess part because apparently she took over for K in that incident. La directoria said "Elliot has not always been the most cooperative child when I've had him" and I quickly retorted "I never said he was an easy child. He's very intelligent, and he's only five years old." Then I mentioned that this was a health issue and she agreed. I also said that they spent two years in California at a Piaget-method school and that I thought these punishment/reward approaches did not work. She of course is familiar with Piaget and I even gave her the phrase 'moral autonomy' and she liked that. (That is the goal with Piaget.)

She asked what I wanted. I showed her the list. I said I wanted a conference with K and her and that I was bringing S from the afterschool. She was very reluctant about that until I told her "S. said I have the legal right to a support person.' So she scribbled down that S. would be attending and said she would like to be able to take some time to observe K in action before talking to her one-to-one and then setting up the meeting between all parties. I agreed. I so hope she is as good as her word.

[jbeany]

 

You go, girl!

[cariad]

Thanks, jbeany!

Liot reports that La Directoria did observe his class Thursday and Friday. Apparently, they were building with blocks during one visit and I asked if his teacher interacted with them at all. (Try to define 'interact' to a 5-year-old....) and he repeatedly answered no to interaction of any description.

I spoke with my mother (6 kids) about this and she thinks I should demand he be switched to a new classroom. I just don't know if that's the right thing to do. She called the atmosphere 'permanently tainted'. I doubt La Directoria would even entertain that idea. I asked Elliot if he wanted to switch to his friend's class. That little boy is so confused, he just says 'do you want me to switch classes, Mom?' I said his nana thought he should and he said 'Even though I have bad luck with teachers, I don't think I can do that.' I think he just does not want anymore change in his life - things are too unstable for him already. I feel sad that he has internalized my thoughts about his 'luck' because I don't want him to feel doomed. I told him "You're not happy at school and that is not your fault, it's the adults' fault, and we have to fix it."

K greeted me this morning with a big, smiley 'good morning!'. This is a first.

[Gerald Lively]

Cariad:

I have just been reborn into the human race, so, I haven’t read much more than your original post. But hear this:

I like this kid.  He and I should form a club because this boy has talent.  Most of all, he likes big butts and so do I.  I measure them all of the time, visually.  There is nothing like wide hips for the male viewer.

Secondly, this kid is intelligent, so do nothing to stifle his intellectual growth.  I mean it; let the kid have his say.  Never tell him, “I don’t want to hear it.”  I was that kid, Mother was the person who coined, “I don’t want to hear it”.  So, after playing with matches (my bad) I let the fire burn because she said, “I don’t want to hear it.”  Suits me.

There was a Mr. Talent who had it in for me.  I was always the kid who tossed the second punch.  The kid that started things never got punished – and in those days corporal punishment was the name of the game.  The Nuns were the worst. Stand behind the boy at all times.  If there is ever a fib, it will come out and he will learn responsibility from the experience.

Where is this school, I will go there and sling hellfire for your boy.

gl

[gothiclovemonkey]

I admittedly havent read all the posts, just the first and last one by cariad,
Wow! Thais is terrible! I dont even know what I would do!! I can tell you that I havent had nearly this much trouble and I am about at my witts end. I know that my sons situation isnt really his teachers "fault" but ya.... anyway, I think since it is near the end of the year, (here anyway, i assume there as well?) that perhaps for the next year you can just make sure he doesnt have her!!!

One thing I want to say, from reading many of your posts, it sounds like you have some really great boys! I have no doubt that having great parents, and the love they have, that everything will be alright, if he can just get passed this one terrible year.
Luckily, at this age, they seem to forget things pretty quickly.

On the "butt" song issue, thats just stupid! For one thing, jareth has come home saying far worse things he learned from other kids! AND, as much as this infuriated me, he actually got kicked out of day care due to his 'potty mouth' (he kept saying damn it. curtousy of meeeee he was just learning how to speak and i hadnt quite stopped saying that when things were going down hill lol) point being, we cant censor them 24/7 and butt is the least of our worries! There are worse songs on commercials! (not to mention Nickalodeon tv shows!!)


It really is unfortunate that the school cant be more on top of things. My sons school is... eh... not so great... when it comes to this, and it is highly possible that my son lies, but id like to think he isnt, when he tells me that hes getting in trouble because a kid is picking on him, so he turns around and yells or slaps the kid... Ive tried many times telling him to tell the teacher if the kid is bugging you, he says, I tried but the teacher wouldnt listen, or I tried but she never called on me and i had my hand raised forever.

Ive seriosuly thought about homeschooling on more than one occasion!
Being a parent is tough !
Good luck!

[cariad]

Cariad:

I have just been reborn into the human race, so, I haven’t read much more than your original post. But hear this:

I like this kid.  He and I should form a club because this boy has talent.  Most of all, he likes big butts and so do I.  I measure them all of the time, visually.  There is nothing like wide hips for the male viewer.

Secondly, this kid is intelligent, so do nothing to stifle his intellectual growth.  I mean it; let the kid have his say.  Never tell him, “I don’t want to hear it.”  I was that kid, Mother was the person who coined, “I don’t want to hear it”.  So, after playing with matches (my bad) I let the fire burn because she said, “I don’t want to hear it.”  Suits me.

There was a Mr. Talent who had it in for me.  I was always the kid who tossed the second punch.  The kid that started things never got punished – and in those days corporal punishment was the name of the game.  The Nuns were the worst. Stand behind the boy at all times.  If there is ever a fib, it will come out and he will learn responsibility from the experience.

Where is this school, I will go there and sling hellfire for your boy.

gl

Hey, thanks, Gerald. I wish more people appreciated my littler boy. The laziest teacher in the world could teach my older son - he is a people pleaser and hates disappointing anyone. Mr. Elliot makes you earn his loyalty, and some cannot take his intensity. He really has the makings of a great thinker. This morning he asked me how world wars start. Whew. Where do you begin? I told him about what I knew about World War II (military history absolutely being an educational gap of mine) and after I was done he said "Do you get to take time our for food and water?"

If given the green light, neither of my kids would ever stop talking. It sounds like I owe your mother a debt of gratitude for coining a most useful phrase.

The film Shark Tale is supposedly to blame for his love of big butts. I asked him to sing me more that day, but he said that was all he knew. I looked up the lyrics. Perhaps it is just as well. The last thing I need is to hear my five year old sing to one of his little female friends My anaconda don't want none unless you've got buns, hun. The great naturalist would likely follow this up with a thorough lecture on the anaconda.

(I just asked Liot if I could have a pet anaconda, and he laid out the harsh reality for me with bullet points: I don't think so. One, they're huge. Two, you would need a pond because they need water to survive. And three, they are constructing snakes [constricting, actually] and they would kill you.)

School is in Milwaukee. Wisconsin schools, once some of the best in the nation, have gone straight to hell since Walker took office. I know everyone there is overworked and underappreciated. Hopefully that will change when Walker is recalled. He and his deputy are not even challenging the 3/4 million signatures. Anyhow, thanks for the thoughts and I will take your sound advice with me when I (probably) meet with all parties next week.

Oh, GLM! Kicked out of daycare for saying 'damn it'? That's deplorable! When Liot was two he would say 'Oh my God!' and they did not want him to say that at daycare because I suppose it is disrespectful to a variety of religions. They just taught him new phrases "oh, bother' was one. His teacher at the time had me doubled over with laughter explaining to me how he challenged her on this. He would slip 'oh my god' in just to see if she would correct him. He tested her for quite a while with different emphasis to try to figure out which part of that phrase was objectionable: OH my god, oh MY god, oh my GOD. It is what kids do and is the very definition of a teacher's job to be able to redirect them without making them (or their parents) feel humiliated for something so normal. I am so sorry they did that to you. I wish you had lived up here because I can promise you that would not have happened at my kids' daycare.

I'm with Gerald on the lies part. I have gone in defending my older son only to find out that he had omitted the part of the story where he jumped on the other kid and pummeled him. If you're at a good school, everyone laughs about it. If you're at a crap school, I don't know. Luckily, I have not had to find out. Being a parent is beyond tough. The toughest job you'll ever love? Oh, wait, that's been taken. As Tony Blair said back when he was PM of the UK and his son had just been caught underage and passed out in Leicester Square from too many pints, Being a Prime Minister can be a tough job, but I always think that being a parent is probably tougher. (The real embarrassment came from the fact that Tony Blair had championed cracking down on underage drinking. Ouch.)

So there you have it. Our job is harder than running a country. And I know you are doing marvelous work with your little Jareth and that you know that he is so worth your efforts. Good luck right back to you. 

[gothiclovemonkey]

I absolutely love you! and your kids sound wonderful and so smart!
Yes, it is a tough job, but i love it very much, even when hes being a smart behind!
(but he gets that from me, so maybe i secretly love it??)

Oh, yes, on the matter of songs, I didnt really stop my son from listening to my music, which is probably not exactly kid friendly, and one song he loves in particular has a phrase that *i* cant even say in front of certain people. (love me dead, by ludo is the song) since then, i have tried to scan in my memory if a song is child suitable, before playing it!
Like i said, some movies and cartoons are saying and playing things that arent good! And Idk if you have ever looking into all the disney stuff, but you can actually youtube disney hidden messages... it will blow your mind.

The day care he was in was for while i was in treatment, it was a huge upset at the time.I know ive definitely made a few mistakes in rasing him, im still learning, but i think we do relatively well. My current situation isnt helping, living with my dad and step monster... they let him get away with murder. They tell me im too hard on him, when i made him write out his spelling words 4 times because he wasnt getting them correct and he has a test tomorrow, he still doesnt know them, hes going to probably fail, but i was being too hard on him.... mmhmm...
anyway!
Part of me wishes to run off to a deserted island, grow a farm, invite some good people, like yourself and family! and make our own rules! Society only seems to make things more difficult! And all the schools want to do is drug our children... Free thinker?! OH NO! wheres the drugs?

[cariad]

You are such a sweetheart, GLM. Please stop being so hard on yourself - I've made an astronomical number of mistakes with my kids. I was part of a panel discussion on public schooling once and we were talking about what our parents taught us, and what they neglected to teach us. One guy quipped "you learn either way". It's true.

Grandparents should never try to override the mother's decision! This has been drilled into my parents' head. Parents are the first and last word on their kids.

Oh, a deserted island! Make sure it's in the tropics and we are so there! (Step-monster should be sent straight to the arctic.... or maybe we can get her sent into space. Anywhere but around you and your son!) I hear you on the drugs. It was suggested that one of my older boy's best friends be put on Ritalin. The mother refused. Good for her. Maybe they wouldn't act so crazy-energetic if schools continued to pay for decent, daily physical education. No, instead it's blamed on us rotten, lazy parents who let their kids watch television.

I meet with the school Monday! Wish me luck!

[willowtreewren]

Get. Eliot. Moved.

Period.

So, the director and the teacher meet with you and your support person. And everything is laid on the table. And this teacher is found to be lacking. What then? The teacher loses face and who is going to get the blame??

I realize that you don't want more change for him, but you have to really consider what leaving him in this teacher's "care" will look like.

He needs to be in a classroom with a teacher who has more experience and a better sense of humor.

 

Aleta

[cariad]

Thanks for the encouragement, Aleta! La Directoria and I did talk about K's lack of humor and flat affect. She said that that was just her, which is unfortunate, but probably mostly true. Although, she has been making an effort to be a bit sunnier with me, so hopefully this will be a permanent change.

I had the conference - S was unable to attend. Leave it to me to pick 8AM the Monday after the clocks go forward! We were all a bit draggy.

S was right - K most certainly did change her tune with La Directoria present. When I gave the Valentines as an example, she said that she did not know what else could be done since (are we ready for this?) she apologised and it won't happen again. Um, what? She then said very directly "I'm sorry." Which was nice. However, I said to her "My understanding was that you saw nothing wrong in keeping his Valentines. All I am saying is that I do not want him excluded from any other class events." I could tell by the look on her face that she knew she was pushing the truth. If she did say sorry originally, it was only to do with the fact that I was ill that day and that Elliot was sad, it certainly was not for her actions. I think La Directoria told her outright in their earlier conversation that she was not to do things like that in future, so she was hoping to slide that by me and make it seem like she came to that conclusion on her own.

We talked about a few ways to make the atmosphere in class more positive. We spoke at length about the underwear comment. I told her that I would never let Elliot go to school with underwear on his head, and I doubted any parent would allow that. She said that Liot had been the one to propose underwear on his head and then all the kids jumped on that idea and said they were going to do it, too. So she talked about suddenly having five kids jumping up and down saying they were going to wear underwear on their heads. (And these were probably the same kids who then tried to get Liot in trouble with me immediately after.) I repeated S's suggestion on how to handle such a circumstance, and La Directoria was nodding along. (She spent some 20 years teaching this age group.) K did clarify that she told the entire class that they were not going to get to a flier for Wacky Wednesday, but I can see why Liot took this personally. That was good information, though, so I can help him see that he is not necessarily being singled out even if it feels that way.

So, I think K was quite relieved when it was over because it stayed civil. I felt I got to say everything I needed to say, and I certainly felt like La Directoria just wanted to see this settled to everyone's benefit. We are leaving for SoCal soon, and then will most likely be there for another week in April, plus they get a week off before that trip. Classes end mid-June - so only 3 months left, and they are essentially going to miss an entire month of that. If she cannot keep up the effort to bring a little more humor and compassion to her work, then I guess I will have to just do what needs to be done for my little boy, but hopefully we can get through two more months of this without further trauma. Fingers crossed.

Thanks once again everyone!

[cariad]

Now that school is out, I thought I would let everyone know how this all played out:

A week before school let out a little boy who does not generally have the nicest things to say about Liot came up to me and said "Some big kids were trying to be jerks to Elliot. They were really bad! They were trying to bully Elliot" I asked for more information, like what level, and he said "I don't know, they were really big, like first grade! They were really bad." That was adorable, since first graders would be all of seven at the oldest, and he seemed genuinely shaken and concerned that these kids were too scary for me to deal with. I asked their teacher K. what I was hearing about older kids bullying Elliot and she just said in her really condescending manner "Well, I think I heard Elliot say some not very nice words to them." OK! Look, I am quite familiar with district policy. I said the word bullying to you, and one of your other students said it to me and seemed genuinely terrified. Once the word bullying is said, she has no choice but to escalate this. It is not for her to judge who was at fault or if it was really bullying, she must tell someone in admin. Instead, she just kept saying she did not actually know what happened, then said "Elliot's brother was there." (Aidan always suspected that this woman never bothered to learn his name. Now we know he was right.)

So, I grabbed Elliot and went out to find his brother. We had a bit of a wait in which Liot tells me that the kids were actually in Aidan's class. Aidan is in grade four! This was shocking news. I see Aidan's teacher V. rounding the corner with all the kids trailing behind her. Elliot says he sees one of the boys who was picking on him. I walk up to V and ask the same question "What's this I hear about kids in your class picking on Elliot?" She and I get along fine, I think she's a great teacher. She responds with alarm "These kids?? Were picking on him??" Elliot then points to a child in an Angry Birds shirt (one he is bound to remember someone wearing) and says he was one of them calling him an idiot, and the boy vehemently denies this. Meanwhile, I am told that Aidan is not with them because another boy had been messing about and accidentally bashed him in the nose and he was in the front office where they were trying to stop the bleeding. Not a great afternoon for me! V. follows me to find Aidan and tells me en route that she will have all of her kids write what they saw first thing the next morning, and that she knows the names will come out.

When I get my kids in the car, I asked Aidan what happened. He gave me the names without much prodding. We went over and over what happened but the story was so convoluted it was difficult to follow. Elliot might have been the instigator, but the fact that there were 3 of them and only one of him, and that he is half their age, I was mostly furious with K for not having one drop of concern for what happened.

I took the boys in early the next morning. We told V who was involved and she said she would take care of it. K never mentioned it again. When V said she would talk to K because she wanted Liot to come upstairs to get a personal apology from the 3 boys, I told her about my brief conversation with K and V responded "That makes me really mad."

That evening, not only did I hear that the 3 boys apologised sincerely to Liot, there were 3 apology notes addressed to me from these boys. I was so moved at how thoroughly these kids were addressing this, I went to Whole Foods and bought 3 thank-you cards and wrote them each a letter telling them how amazing it is to see such young kids able to admit when they are wrong and work to remedy the situation. The next day I picked my boys up from school again, and two of the three boys (one was absent that day) asked Aidan to have me come upstairs to speak to them because they wanted to apologise in person. It was so sweet. V even said that people had been commenting that there was something different about them, and V has stated many times that teaching life lessons is much more important to her than teaching facts from a book.

So, I decided to give both of Aidan's teachers (V and B, his teacher who teaches them subjects in English and who acted as his volunteer basketball coach) gift baskets from Whole Foods. I totally snubbed K. Liot wanted to get to give something to a teacher, so I bought gift baskets for his two teachers at his afterschool and now summer program. They helped us all get through this very difficult school year. I told Liot that he's out of school now and we never have to talk about K again. He's started to say that we better not use "the K-word" so I think he really is determined to put this behind him and move on.

I received Elliot's report card from K on the last day of school. She used the opportunity to take final shots at my son. One of her comments, that Liot's summer program teachers and I were laughing over, was "Needs to play fair - when he gets tagged in a game he says it's unfair" A five year old thinking it's unfair when he starts losing a game? I must be a terrible mother to have the first child in history to falsely claim that something is unfair. I'm so glad she's brought this to my attention! 

[jbeany]

Makes you wonder why some people go into teaching, when they obviously don't really like kids, doesn't it?  Or they only like them when they are behaving absolutely perfectly, which for most kids is a small percentage of the time!