I'm Ending Treatment

[willowtreewren]

I don't know but there must be someway to hate dialysis but not hate living.   With all the depression and stuff going on here I'm amazed that anyone is sane.  This is a hard place to be for someone that hasn't started dialysis.  I was scared before and this place is making me think why continue living since it's only gonna be hell from now on.

River, that's just it. For some, dialysis hardly slows them down. That was how my husband saw it.... Sure, it was inconvenient. But the time that he was NOT on dialysis was LIFE!

You have no idea how your body will react to dialysis until you get there. Please don't waste the beauty of life BEFORE dialysis by making yourself miserable thinking about how bad it could be when you need to go on dialysis. Instead of focusing on those who don't do well, look through these forums at all those who are living full lives despite dialysis.

Aleta

[lmunchkin]

Very well said Aleta!

River, it just affects people differently. Some can mentally & physically handle it yet some don't.  We are all in this together and show support where necessary.  Just because someone wants to stop does not mean people are happy about that fact, but that we understand why.

I know my J. has expressed stopping, but has not as of this moment.  I do dread the day he is serious about it, but I will honor his wishes.  Since starting NxStage, he hasnt said anything about it.  I believe this modality has really helped him immensly, NO, I know it has helped him!

He has been through alot in over 7 years, but he hasn't given up.  He is a fighter!  I will fight with him, with every fiber in me and He knows it!

Its just some handle things better than others. We all have them days, thoughts, ect.... This most likely is where Beachbum is at.  I hope not, but if it is, then I will totally understand his wishes!

God Bless,
lmunchkin
 

[cuteangrylittlemuppet]

Thank you to everyone who has reached out both privately and publicly.

River-
I really don't want to cause you to fear what is happening. I would judge that since you have already found this forum you have taken the first steps of addressing your fears and asking for support (a huge leap in the right direction). I fail miserably in that arena. I've always tried to be tough and keep up the "nothing in wrong with me facade". I won't lie, my situation has been hard but it caught me completely by surprise, I got no transition. It won't happen like that for you. You'll go to the doctor and they will discuss your options (at length) with you and you will choose your modality. I would highly suggest PD to avoid the hemo centers completely if possible or start the process towards home hemodialysis another fantastic option.
And those days that everybody pisses you off or you have an idiot tech or nurse, come here scream at the top of your lungs. Blow off some steam, we'll be here.

So is any dark moment you will never have to suffer alone; that's why I'm here. 

[gothiclovemonkey]

River it is scary, but you wont know how you feel until you do it.  Everyone is different.
it could be a huge relief to someone who is very sick before starting, where it may be hell for another.
This thread IS depressing, but its a part of life. Not just life on dialysis, but life in general.

[Gerald Lively]

First of all; no one ever accused me of being sane!

The best attitude about dialysis is that it is inconvenient.  I grumble and complain but I’m usually searching for information.  The more I know about renal failure the better I understand it, the better I tolerate it.

About beachbum; if the Dude wants to off himself, then he should.  We have all had an opportunity to communicate our feelings in the hope of persuading him to take another course of action, and that is all we can do.  If I were sitting next to him now, I’d drag him out to some place where life is abundant and active, and I’d make him participate – like a topless beer joint.  But I am not there and he has gone silent. 

Let him rest.

gerald

[Rerun]

I'm concerned that if he did end his life with a gun that his family will come looking for answers HERE.  I'm not sure all of our words were kind and encouraging.   I didn't know what to say to him because I've felt the same way before.  But, the bridge between dispare and hope is a good night sleep.  Maybe I should have said that. 

Let's go on with this thread with what we "should " have said....   

[gothiclovemonkey]

Not to say that this is the case this time, but it has been my experience that if someone is truely considering actually killing themselves, not stopping dialysis,but actually actively killing themselves, the dont broadcast it. it would be rather pointless, dont you think? too many people could stop the act. If someone truly wanted to harm themselves, the would not tell anyone, and they would just do it. its a "selfish" act and nobody who wants to do that wants to feel others concern.
ive dealt with many people who have tried, or wanted to, and i myself have tried.

if he did, it was not anyone here's fault. He made his choice, I hope it wasnt that one, but reality is we may never know,  But next time someone presents with this, words of care, rather than tough love, would be encouraged...
Tough love never helps a damn thing when dealing with this...

[Gerald Lively]

The owners of IHD have no liability regardless of what was said or by who said it.  This forum solicits opinion and in America that is held sacred by the First Amendment.  For those who wish to argue the point;  nobody shouted the equivalent of “fire in a crowded theatre.”

Regarding beachbum;  my experience with renal failure and no dialysis tells me he has about a month to six weeks.  I had a partially functioning kidney and it took about six months before I was rendered unconscious with two weeks to live (per the Doctors).  He will feel so miserable that just dropping dialysis that his opinion might be changed. He may be hospitalized in any case as a “5150” – a danger to himself and others. “Tis the law in California.

However, I suspect we may never hear about him again and we will all wonder about him.

I never considered suicide.  I asked about it, or, rather I asked how long it would take to croak without dialysis.  I live for information.  For me, that helps.

As for the criticism about “tough love”; I have lost my oldest daughter, my grandson and others to tragedy.  Perhaps I have emptied my grief cup and there is nothing left.

[kristina]

I am very concerned that Tommy “beachbum” did end his life with a gun at a vulnerable moment
when no one of his family was around to talk him out of it.
 
It seems the only communication he had was IHD via a computer.
He made very clear that he felt IHD members did not comprehend
what he was really going through.

He had no hope. He was too deeply steeped in his desperate situation.
He had lost all hope to find a way out and he must have researched on the Internet
a secure way to commit suicide because the Internet recommends using a gun.

It has been said it “was his choice” to end his life.
 
Was he not too much overcrowded to make a choice ?

I would not be surprised if he never came back again, even if he is still alive.
We can’t really expect him to “entertain” us further with his despair
and this thoughts about throwing away his life?

It does not help him if our failing is due to the fact that
we “have emptied our own grief cup” and the “if’s” and “should’s”.

It concerns me how Tommy was treated in his total despair, turmoil and isolation.
He came to IHD for help and we failed him terribly. He was left on his own.

It concerns me further because I am pre-dialysis and I have not experienced dialysis yet.
I feel now that if I have any problems concerning my survival
I could not communicate my thoughts with IHD members.

I do not comprehend how terribly we failed him.

Do I by any chance misinterpret what was going on?

I am still very confused about it.
 
Thank you from Kristina.

[Riverwhispering]

I don't think "we" the IHD family have failed beachbum by our comments.  We have expressed our thoughts on what he posted and maybe we didn't say what a professional Councillor would have said but this is a forum of people that have CKD or caregivers of people with CKD.  I mean duh.

When I first read his post I had the feeling he was in a major depression but was just pissed he wasn't getting his way with the transplant business.  I felt he was just venting and making it a super drama like the kid that doesn't get his way and takes his ball home so others can't play.  I know I could have misread what he was saying and I'm sorry if I made his life worse with my comments.  I don't want to be the straw that broke the camels back by pushing him over the edge.  etc....

I'm here for support and to vent and that's what I've been trying to do.   I hope that when I get a response from someone it's from their heart and that's all I want.  No psycho babble just heart felt thoughts.

I want to thank you that have responded about my fears.  It has helped a bit.

[RichardMEL]

What follows is totally my own personal opinion.

I have finally had a chance to catch up with this thread.

SOme posts here have really pleased me, and some others have disappointed me.

I can understand what some have been trying to do - to almost use a bit of reverse psychology or similar to snap beachbum out of it. Maybe it worked, maybe it didn't. I also think GLM had a very good point that most people who really do consider and follow through with suicide do it quietly.. saying you'll do it is a clear call for help.

Some here have responsed, some have contacted the admin team with concern, others have attempted to contact beachbum privately I know.

There are no right answers I think. I would olike to think each and every person here who read the OP wanted to support someone clearly sending out a signal. Is it seeking attention? Of course it is - in any way you look at it - but isn'tit better to seek some kind of help, even if it is in this kind of way, than just silently go off and nobody has any idea of what or why?

Personlly I feel sad that beachbum, at the young age of 38, feels (or felt?) so frustrated with his situation that he felt the only solution was to end it. I'm not much older and while I do have the wonderful gift of a transplant, I don't have many friends and well 1/3 of my close family currently refuses to talk to me. Yeah. I've lost the sign in one eye.. it's not all rosy but it's life, and I'll take it with its ups and downs. I can still do a hell of a lot and experience a lot. I'm sure more crap will happen to me.. but again that's part of life. I can't pretend to know what it's like to be in beachbum's shoes but I've been depressed before - sometimes with kidney disease other times with life in general.  It's not easy. I wish, wherever he is now, he does have some peace and if he's still with uis, maybe reading still, I hope you find a way through to a place YOU are happy with.

My own mother decided to end treatment when she had a DVT related pulmanary embolism and basically was in a catch-22 situation where her organs were being killed by the drugs she was on to kill the pneumonia which was killing her. She saw no option but to go out on her terms with some dignity. So I have seen that myself. I saw how at peace she was with her decision and the final few weeks we had her were some of the better ones because of that - so from that point of view I can totally understand where bb was coming from with his thought processes. In a way I was able to cope better with my mother's passing because I knew SHE was at peace with her choice and went on her terms and had the chance to say goodbye to us in her own way. I am not saying the situation is  the same at all, but I do have some empathy for that way of thinking.

I hope if bb is out there still and reading... however attacked or upset you feel about some opinions posted here hopefully you take from this that everyone who bothered to post something actually did so because they cared enough to post.

[Deanne]

Beachbum hasn't logged back in since the middle of the night when he made his last post. His decision makes me sad and a bit scared for my own future. If he did commit suicide that night, I'm thankful that he came to tell us goodbye first. If his goal was to ask us for help, I'm sorry we let him down. Whatever his decision, I hope he finds peace. I remember the despair, rage, and frustration I felt when my first transplant center didn't work out. I was afraid it meant I wouldn't be able to be transplanted at all, not because I'm a poor candidate, but because of their politics. From that regard, I can understand a bit of what Tommy is saying.

[plugger]

I've watched this thread and resisted the urge to jump in - I think I don't do spontaneous well, and was thinking those who can relate more were handling it very well.

I will say I've had relatives who have gone through some severe depression, one described as being hit by a truck and having people standing around you telling you to get up!  -kind of hard.  Through the grace of God and some support they got through it - and if BeachBum is still out there, all I can say is give it some time, take care of yourself as much as you can, find somebody or people to lean on: someone close, someone spiritual maybe, possibly someone professional - or all three!  I've heard depression described as anger turned inward.

[The Noob]

when i was working the rig with dh, we would get calls that were horrendous. we'd get to the scene and jump like lemurs trying every intervention we had. sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. my dh said to me on one particular bad call, that when the tones went off, we'd go and work like mad to do what we could. but if it were that persons time to go, it was already decided before we ever got there.

Gerald and Richard and others..love you..

BeachBum: i hope your getting some help and decide to live. if not, i hope your in a peaceful place and your wife is surrounded by those who can help her too.
i don't think there are many here who can't relate to this..be it patient or caregiver. and no one can know what they will do until they are in that situation. much prayers brother.

to the transplant team: go to the administrator of the hospital. never forget to remind those that are making these decisions to: "smile, your on youtube"..

[cariad]

I have been so upset at some of these responses that it is difficult for me to write about it. Richard, as usual you have this remarkable and very nearly magical ability to make me feel better, even though I cannot pinpoint exactly what it is you said. Must be the accent.

Thank you, GLM, for saying so much of what I wanted to say. And CALM (I love that your screenname reduces to a soothing acronym) that was such a generous gesture, I really hope that Tommy takes you up on it one day because it sounds like the two of you could really help each other.

I do want to correct the common misconception that people who talk about suicide never do it. That is the myth that nearly brought down my marriage. It simply isn't true. Much as people seem hell bent on believing it despite all evidence to the contrary, I will say over and over that it is FLAT OUT FALSE. If you are American and think about the legacy of suicide that runs through certain families, you probably will all come up with the same name: Hemmingway. Ernest Hemmingway wrote a Nobel Prize winning cannon of work, these were books he knew the world would read, and he included discussion of suicide. He contracted with his then-8-year-old son that neither one of them would kill themselves. It's a hell of a way for a child to learn that contracts don't generally work. Anyhow, I once asked a psychiatrist to comment on this belief and he immediately said 'Oh, no. Quite the opposite. Most people who kill themselves will talk about it first.'

Can't you see the problem with setting up this test where you are essentially saying 'the only way to prove to us that you are serious is to kill yourself'. It's a hateful message. What does a little compassion cost any of us? If it bothers you so much, just don't respond, this is not the time for speeches about how we have it worse than he does. Comparing suffering - oh, how I hate it.

I personally did not think Rerun was alluding to a legal consequence if his family comes here for answers, they will be looking to answer the question why. I would be shocked if they ever were to post, but if his wife were to come on here, for example, would we want her to read our responses? This is not a question of legality but humanity. Who we want to be as a support forum.

I find it hard to believe that there is a single person on here who has not experienced depression on some level, but for that rare soul, let me try to explain. The bad ones feel like you are drowning, literally like you are not sure you have the will to breathe in the next moment. You are drowning and you cannot find the words to explain to anyone that it obviously does not look like you are drowning, but you are. Trying to convey anything coherent in that moment is well nigh impossible, but people do and not surprisingly it doesn't always make perfect sense or sound like it is any impossibly huge obstacle if you are not sat right in the middle of it living it. When you are drowning, often all you can think to shout is 'hey, help, I'm drowning' and then to be subjected to an argument about whether you are really, truly drowning or not, it makes me sad and frustrated for Tommy.

Anyhow, in the end, if he did kill himself, I agree, no one here is to blame. I truly believe that.

[YLGuy]

I have searched through the Boston Herald.  I have looked through all the local stories and the obituaries and do not see anything about a 38 year old man or anyone named Tommy, Thomas or Tom.  I hope that is a good thing and he is just taking time off from this site and is getting better.

[Lillupie]

hey
 has anyone have "beachbum" on Facebook? I have a few people who are on here who are also on Facebook. Maybe if he has not been on IHD, maybe he might of been on facebook.

 I feel bad for him. Because Ihave been where he is at. LikeI have posted  the thread "I wish someone would kill me and put me out of my misery". To me usually, I think this is the ultimate nightmare. I just wanted to let him know it is not alone.
 Noone has mentioned this, but at some point, if you believe in it, you have to give it up to God.

Lisa

[kristina]

I have searched through the Boston Herald.  I have looked through all the local stories and the obituaries and do not see anything about a 38 year old man or anyone named Tommy, Thomas or Tom.  I hope that is a good thing and he is just taking time off from this site and is getting better.

Thank you, YLGuy for searching through the Boston Herald
and looking through all the local obituaries, stories etc.
I am so relieved you could not find anything about Tommy.

I very much appreciate that you took the time to do that.

Thanks again and kind regards from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

There could be many things unbeknownst to us that have converged to make beachbum's life so miserable at this particular moment.  I don't think that a disagreement with a transplant center is enough in and of itself to cause someone to want to end his life.  There must be much more to this story that he has not shared with us, and this is why it is so very hard to find just the right words, especially over a computer screen.

There have been four pages of responses; that, to me, shows a lot of care and attention.  Some might feel that not everyone had the "right" words, but how much worse would it have been had no one responded at all? 

[wj13us]

I've read through this whole thread though I have no comments regarding beachbum out of very sad, these types of discussion often make me wonder.

Think about it for those on here who are or have been on dialysis.  If we were born say 100 years ago none of us would be here.  So is stopping treatment really a form of suicide or just letting nature take its course.  On the flip side if we were born 100 years from now maybe they could grow a healthy kidney from our stem cells and transplant that and never have a problem with rejection.

Why us?  Why now?  Why do we seem to be stuck in the middle of no cure and a full cure?

Something to think about.

Bill

[cariad]

There could be many things unbeknownst to us that have converged to make beachbum's life so miserable at this particular moment.  I don't think that a disagreement with a transplant center is enough in and of itself to cause someone to want to end his life.

I disagree with that last bit. There is no such thing as enough or not enough - we are talking about major depression and that is always enough. Kurt Cobain killed himself, Freddie Prinze killed himself. These were people who on the surface had everything and I have no doubt were told by well-meaning but misguided individuals in life that their problems were not enough reason to kill themselves. All that does in the end is minimize the person's despair and pile on guilt that you should be happy but you're not. That is my general feeling on the topic of why people choose to kill themselves.

My specific feeling about Tommy is that he had a close friend complete suicide (red flag) he was traumatized by a war experience (red flag) he feels isolated from his family (red flag) and has just been told that he cannot have a transplant not just at that centre but anywhere because he failed some secret test. Now, I have no doubt that he could overcome all of this and anything else that has gone wrong in his life, but that takes time and I can only hope that he will give himself that time. Honestly, those eval people should be imprisoned in my opinion, but they can rest easy in the knowledge that no one ever listens to me.

[MooseMom]

My specific feeling about Tommy is that he had a close friend complete suicide (red flag) he was traumatized by a war experience (red flag) he feels isolated from his family (red flag) and has just been told that he cannot have a transplant not just at that centre but anywhere because he failed some secret test.

Uh, I think you just proved my point.

[cariad]

My specific feeling about Tommy is that he had a close friend complete suicide (red flag) he was traumatized by a war experience (red flag) he feels isolated from his family (red flag) and has just been told that he cannot have a transplant not just at that centre but anywhere because he failed some secret test.

Uh, I think you just proved my point.

He told us these things, so it is not unbeknownst to us.

That is why I broke it down into the general and specific. Specifically, he does seem to have a lot going on. Generally, it is always enough if the person perceives it as enough. It is a mistake to dismiss anyone's struggles as not enough to be feeling suicidal.

[MooseMom]

Okay, you're right again.

[Gerald Lively]

Okay, let me thoughtless and insensitive here!

What is my responsibility to beachbum?

gl