The troops are coming home...

[MooseMom]

I find this very strange...the war in Iraq is over, and tens of thousands of our troops are coming home in time for the holidays, but there seems to be no national joy about this.  Why is that, do you think?  No matter what you may think about the politics surrounding the war, you'd at least expect the general civilian population to be thrilled that so many of our young soldiers are coming home for good, yet there seems to be no fanfare, no excitement, nothing.  I know the families are happy, but the rest of us?  Maybe it's because the rest of us haven't really been asked to sacrifice?  What do you all think?

[okarol]

I think it's stories like this from the LATimes http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/01/nation/la-na-killed-in-action-20111202 that make me feel as though it's not over until the troops are safely home. I will be celebrating when they arrive! 

[MooseMom]

But when WWII was declared to be over, there was dancing in the streets even though many US troops had not arrived home.  This was supposed to be a war where we were defending our very way of life, yet even though it is over and so many of the troops are streaming into US airports on their way back to their families, we just don't hear much about it.

Will we even know when ALL of the troops are safely home?  When do we get to celebrate?  Will there be parades through the streets?  Does anyone care?

[Riki]

I think that Iraq differs from WW2, since there was no real victory.  Unfortunately, there was no real victory to be had in Iraq.  It was a war that was started on false pretenses, and when that all came out, it made the US (and Britain as well, as they went along with it) look bad to the rest of the world, and made an already bad American reputation in the Middle East even worse.  I think that, even though it's great that the war is over and the troops are coming home, most people just want to move on and away from this particular war.

[kristina]

I find this very strange...the war in Iraq is over, and tens of thousands of our troops are coming home in time for the holidays, but there seems to be no national joy about this.  Why is that, do you think?  No matter what you may think about the politics surrounding the war, you'd at least expect the general civilian population to be thrilled that so many of our young soldiers are coming home for good, yet there seems to be no fanfare, no excitement, nothing.  I know the families are happy, but the rest of us?  Maybe it's because the rest of us haven't really been asked to sacrifice?  What do you all think?

When WWII ended, people were promised that WWII put an “end to all wars”
and they danced in the streets and hoped it was the beginning of real civilisation...

But wars continued, and particularly Vietnam caused a great shock to many people worldwide...
 
...and there has been no peace ever since and wars continued...

Many people suspect now that wars are only there to feed
a few people's desire for conflict, aggravation and greedy desire to oppress other countries...

...and the population worldwide feels sorry for soldiers
because many soldiers come from poor families
and being a soldier is often the only “job” they can possibly get...

[MooseMom]

Yes, I realize that Iraq is very different from WWII, but does that mean we still should be treating its end with nothing more than a yawn?  Does that mean that the soldiers' homecoming is any less significant?

Here is the disconnect for me, and this is something that has been bewildering for some years now.  I don't know how many of you watch sports on TV, but I watch a lot, and for every big team sporting event here in the US (big NFL games, World Series, etc), there is always an enormous presence by the military with the big American flag and the flyovers etc.  There is always mention of "our brave men and women in uniform"; there seems to be this militarization and nationalization of our domestic sporting events that I find to be very peculiar.  For a period from 1985 to 2003, I lived abroad so didn't get to see many American sports, but upon my return, this presence of so many representatives of the armed forces at these events really surprised me.  We talk endlessly on and on about our miliitary and the welfare of our troops, always lauding them and praising them.  When Pat Tillman was killed, you couldn't see an NFL game without some mention of him.  But when the details of his death became public knowledge a few years later (and only after his parents pressed the point), we heard little about it.  So it seems that as long as the troops are THERE and not HERE, then they are worthy of our praise and attention.

Kristiina, I think you've nailed it, and you've expressed what I've believed for a long time.  This war was not fought by all of us.  It was fought by volunteers who believed they would struggle in civilian life.    Didn't Mitt Romney once say that his strapping sons were "serving their country" by working on his campaign?  I guess they had the money to make themselves believe that.

Anyway, it just struck me as odd that there just isn't any general conversation about these soldiers finally getting to come home for good.  Even on this forum where we talk about all kinds of things, this didn't register a mention.  I just happened to catch a quick story over the weekend on CNN about a group of soldiers returning to Fort Hood before going home, and I thought it was rather sad that this event is being virtually ignored. 

I sense a vast chasm between the US military and the civilian population they serve, and this worries me.  In this era of competitive cost-cutting (Let's see who can cut the most!!), how are we going to integrate these soldiers back into our society?  Are we going to find a meaningful way to say, "Thank you for your service."?

[Poppylicious]

As awful as it sounds, maybe people just don't care anymore?  Many people didn't believe in the justification of it and it's been going on for a long time.  Also, many more people have not been personally affected by it than have been (unlike, for example, WWII). 

I would also imagine that some people will just be wondering when the next war will begin; do you really think these young soldiers are coming home 'for good'?

Of course, I'm just a cynical munchkin living in a 'glass half-empty' world.  I'm sure that once they're all home there will be public celebrations (although I doubt that either the USA or the UK will ever see the entire nation joyously dancing in the streets again, except for in the event of an alien invasion.)

[MooseMom]

Many people didn't believe in the justification of it and it's been going on for a long time.  Also, many more people have not been personally affected by it than have been (unlike, for example, WWII). 

I was living in the UK when the US went into Iraq, so I am very mindful of the view of the British public regarding the war, and I know that Tony Blair was vilified for joining the effort.  I can't say that I disagreed.  But in the US, there was still anger at 9/11, and the public along with Congress DID approve of the war at the time.  Americans were told that these soldiers will be fighting to preserve our way of life, and 10 years on, we are still being told that these soldiers are bombing Al Qaeda strongholds so that we can be free to navel-gaze and wonder if Herman Cain is lying or not.   If these young people are, in fact, fighting for our freedom, then why are we not celebrating their homecoming more?

(These are really hypothetical questions because 1., they were never fighting for our freedom and 2. they sacrificed so that we did not have to and 3. I think we feel very guilty about that, hence the OTT military pomp at our sporting events.  If anyone disagrees with this assessment, I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts.  I am not looking for political debate, rather, I'm looking for some explanations for these things.)

[Kitty Cat]

Moosemom,

I for one was unaware that so many troops were coming home. There has been nothing in the news about it.

I can't speak for what happened with WWII, I can say that with this, I have seen 2 young men that I have known since childhood go off to this "war" and come home maimed for life.  Both I've known since they were aprox 8 yrs old. Now, neither one complains, they did what they did for the love of their country and would do it again. I respect them heart and soul for that.

I honestly believe that there would not be so many skirmishes, wars, etc whatever they want to call them if the politicians children had to  participate. If the military is good enough for the British Monarchy, then it's good enough for the US politicians children. Maybe they would then think before they launched another whatever.

Anger over 911, absolutely. But we went in there aimlessly without a plan. All these years later, we've accomplished some things, but in the long run, were the casualties worth it?

I'm not looking for a political debate either, I find it very sad that all of these wars back through the generations very simply were all politicians wars and that's how it will always be.

I would love to see parades for the troops, keys to the cities, treat them the same as we would a winning basketball/football team. They've worked harder to earn our respect than any sports team. People would come out to see these troops in droves. Sadly, the media worships the wrong things...

[MooseMom]

Kitty Cat, I couldn't agree more.

I don't know if the casualties have been worth it, but I suspect that this is a question that none of us dare ask of ourselves nor of our politicians.  And that speaks volumes.  I don't think we could bear it if the answer was, "No."

[kristina]

A few “cynics” mention already how very odd the timing of 9/11was...

 ...9/11 seemed to “happen just at the right time” and it was mentioned
how peculiar it was –historically seen – that  Pearl Harbour happened at a very convenient time as well...

Tony Blair (many people re-named him Tony Bliar) stated,
 that “we would be blown up by Iraq” within 45 minutes...

... only one British scientist and expert on biological warfare, Dr. David Kelly, disagreed
(he worked for the UK Ministry of Defence and was formerly a United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq).

Dr. David Kelly’s disagreement made many people think...after all, he was an expert...
Dr.  David Kelly was found dead under very mysterious circumstances shortly after....

...About caring: I do care and I have met and talked to a few ex-soldiers
many of whom were unable to cope any longer...
...some of them ended-up living in the streets...
...they were no longer able to fit into ordinary life after their experiences in war...

That made me wonder if men are actually much more sensitive than women...?

[okarol]

I care too. I just don't know anyone who has served recently, but if I did I would join in the celebration. Whenever I see a soldier I thank them. I will buy them coffee or lunch, whatever is appropriate at the moment.
I will never forget the young men (my age) who returned from VietNam and were shunned, called baby killers, it was horrendous and unforgivable. We need to honor and respect all veterans.

[Jean]

Okarol is as always, 100 % right. As for myself, I feel that the service people are coming home, but it is not " for good". Some one said we went to Iraq without a plan and I agree with that.If we had had a plan, this " war" would have been ended much sooner. In a very real sense, we may have not "won" the "war" but the bombing of 9/11  killed a tremendous amount of people and the fear that it could happen again drove our military to get over there and " kick some ass". That is a normal reaction. The "bad guys" of those desert countries are never going to stop. We are the enemy to them in their minds and this is never going to go away. Just my  worth.