Animal Renal Therapy...."NOW WITH VIDEO of a treatment"

[okarol]

 http://www.amcny.org/Symposium/symposium2006.htm




EDITED:   Moved post to proper thread - Goofynina/Admin.

EDITED 2: Added "Now with VIDEO of a treatment" to subject line" - Epoman, Owner/Admin

[boxman55]

ohhh my God!!! I went into shock when I saw that. How the hell do they keep them from ripping everything out. Man............Boxman55

[Rerun]

That is sick and wrong.   

[okarol]

This is designed to introduce the veterinarian to therapies available
for renal failure when medical management is failing.

Why is that wrong?

[Rerun]

Because animals don't understand why they are sick and to have to be confined and have needles etc...   I would never put my dog through what I have to go through. 

I'm an animal lover, but I love them enough to not let them suffer.

[okarol]

Well I love animals too. And if a reasonable quality of life is available to them
while being treated for a temporary loss of kidney function, rather than having
them die, I think I would choose to have them live. However, I cannot imagine
doing long-term 3 days a week dialysis - I think that would be too much intervention.
There's another website that explains more about the process:
http://www.amcny.org/department/hemodialysis.htm
It states:
How long will my pet need dialysis?

When dialysis is used for acute kidney failure, it is continued until the kidneys get better or it becomes clear that the kidneys are never going to heal.

Most of the time, whatever kidney repair is going to happen has occurred by 4 weeks.

Occasionally the kidneys will heal sooner, and half the time (50% of patients), they don't heal at all.

With chronic kidney failure, the kidneys are permanently damaged. Dialysis is continued three times a week for the rest of the patient's life.

Will this make my pet live longer?

Complete kidney shutdown will cause an animal to die within 4 days. However, it takes up to 4 weeks for the kidney to heal from acute injuries. Dialysis is intended to support the patient during that healing time.

Not all pets with acute kidney failure can recover, even with dialysis. About half of these patients die, despite all of our efforts.

However, about half of these patients live, and they were not expected to do so without dialysis to support them. They may recover completely with no lasting effects, or they may end up with chronic kidney failure and need special diets and medications to help support them.

Pets with chronic kidney failure on life-long dialysis may live a year longer than they would have without dialysis, although not all patients will live this long.

[Rerun]

There are two reasons why I would not do this.

#1 - the cost.  An animal is an animal and not a human.  I have a hard time with the costs for humans.  No way would I pay for my dog to be on dialysis at even a Thousand dollars a month.  I have a fit paying $160 to get their teeth cleaned. 

#2 If their kidneys have failed (even for a month) there is something very wrong with the dog.  I had a friend whose dog was determined to be diabetic.  That poor thing had to be drug from under the bed to have her shots and my friend would follow it around the yard trying to collect a urine sample.  HOG WASH!

Dogs are meant to jump. play, fetch, eat, sleep, and run.  Not to be hooked up to a machine (unless for medical research).

 

[jedimaster]

When I saw the picture I think that is the way I feel somedays....

[kitkatz]

I agree with you Jedimaster. Some days I feel like I am going to the dogs!

[boxman55]

Because animals don't understand why they are sick and to have to be confined and have needles etc...   I would never put my dog through what I have to go through. 

I am with on that Rerun. Ever since I saw the picture I can't get it out of my head. It is just to much. Boxman55




EDITED:  Fixed quote tag - Goofynina/Admin.

[okarol]

I removed the photo.
Anyone who wantes to learn about animal renal therapy can follow the link.

[Black]

If the dog has no other heath problems and it is a temporary measure to keep the dog alive until their kidneys recover, then the owner and the vet need to make the decision, especially regarding the dialysis expense.  Dogs have been used for many decades in medical research which has benefited many of us.  If we can afford to help one of them, then we should.  I think we owe them that much.

No way would I subject any dog, especially an elderly dog, to dialysis for more than a day or two if I knew they had a slim chance or no chance of recovering kidney function.  I can understand doing it a day or two to allow the family time to say good bye if the failure is unexpected and sudden.

[renal30yrs]

UC Davis has been performing organ transplants on pets for a mber of years.  Their record was satisfactory enough to a point they have moved to doing human organ transplants.  I'm going to check out their program sometime very soon.

[stauffenberg]

I saw a news report way back in 1994 on chronic dialysis for dogs in the United States.  This is pretty disturbing, considering that in many parts of the world, people with renal failure are simply allowed to die because the state cannot afford to buy enough dialysis machines to cover the entire endstage renal disease population.  When I was in the Philippines, none of the other patients at the dialysis center could believe that I was a dialysis patient, since in that country they all look horribly sick, given that they have to pay for dialysis privately, and can at most afford to come for treatment once a week.

Interestingly, it is very common to perform kidney transplants for cats with renal failure, because there are not the same tissue typing problems for cats as there are for humans, so every cat is a good match for every other cat.  This is surprising, given that cats have been domesticated since prehistoric times, and have travelled with their human masters over all the world, which should have caused enough genetic variation to arise in cats so that they would no longer be good HLA matches for each other.  But somehow their obvious splitting into different genetic types has not introduced the diversity typical of humans, who have 625 HLA groups, just counting those taken into consideration for organ matching.  If only humans had the luck of cats, the misery of renal failure could be enormously reduced for the human population.  What malevolent force of the universe decided to make cats more fortunate than people?

[Sluff]

I saw a news report way back in 1994 on chronic dialysis for dogs in the United States.  This is pretty disturbing, considering that in many parts of the world, people with renal failure are simply allowed to die because the state cannot afford to buy enough dialysis machines to cover the entire endstage renal disease population.  When I was in the Philippines, none of the other patients at the dialysis center could believe that I was a dialysis patient, since in that country they all look horribly sick, given that they have to pay for dialysis privately, and can at most afford to come for treatment once a week.

Interestingly, it is very common to perform kidney transplants for cats with renal failure, because there are not the same tissue typing problems for cats as there are for humans, so every cat is a good match for every other cat.  This is surprising, given that cats have been domesticated since prehistoric times, and have travelled with their human masters over all the world, which should have caused enough genetic variation to arise in cats so that they would no longer be good HLA matches for each other.  But somehow their obvious splitting into different genetic types has not introduced the diversity typical of humans, who have 625 HLA groups, just counting those taken into consideration for organ matching.  If only humans had the luck of cats, the misery of renal failure could be enormously reduced for the human population.  What malevolent force of the universe decided to make cats more fortunate than people?

Good question, and quite the viewpoint.

[BigSky]

Animals are a different breed from the human animal and things that happen to them that would kill a human can often be reversed.

If sudden kidney failure occurred in my dog and there was a chance it was just a short term thing I would do everything I could to give her a chance.   I would likely be selfish though and pay for a couple treatments just to give myself more time with her.

If it was something long term in that her kidneys would not heal I would not let her continue on in that manner of misery, as it is one thing for a human who has understanding to be able to cope with renal failure and quite another for a animal who has no idea to the extent or understanding of it to cope with it.

She didn't pick me to be her owner, I picked her. As such she is not disposable because of cost to me.  As long as there is a good future of healing and quality of life for her I have a moral obligation to pay and do whatever I can for her.

[glitter]

She didn't pick me to be her owner, I picked her. As such she is not disposable because of cost to me.  As long as there is a good future of healing and quality of life for her I have a moral obligation to pay and do whatever I can for her.

nice sentiment,she is a lucky dog

[Rerun]

Animals are a different breed from the human animal and things that happen to them that would kill a human can often be reversed.

If sudden kidney failure occurred in my dog and there was a chance it was just a short term thing I would do everything I could to give her a chance.   I would likely be selfish though and pay for a couple treatments just to give myself more time with her.

If it was something long term in that her kidneys would not heal I would not let her continue on in that manner of misery, as it is one thing for a human who has understanding to be able to cope with renal failure and quite another for a animal who has no idea to the extent or understanding of it to cope with it.

She didn't pick me to be her owner, I picked her. As such she is not disposable because of cost to me.  As long as there is a good future of healing and quality of life for her I have a moral obligation to pay and do whatever I can for her.

Ok, how much per treatment is too much?  I'm billed $3,000 per treatment.  In this scenario it would depend on each individuals pocketbook as to how much they are willing to keep their dog alive.  Is it worth putting the dog through what I go through for just 3 more days of life for "my enjoyment" and at this point is anyone enjoying life?

Man......this is making me question my own dialysis.

[BigSky]

Ok, how much per treatment is too much?  I'm billed $3,000 per treatment.  In this scenario it would depend on each individuals pocketbook as to how much they are willing to keep their dog alive.  Is it worth putting the dog through what I go through for just 3 more days of life for "my enjoyment" and at this point is anyone enjoying life?

Man......this is making me question my own dialysis.

I don't know. 

My treatments are only billed at $500 and Medicares approved amount is more lower. 

[okarol]

I just went home for a day and my husband said that Jenna's cat Woody had gotten
chased up a tree by a neighbors dog and was limping. I took him in for xrays and tests
($400) and they say he tore the ligaments in his knee. It will require surgery, which is
about $2000. They sent us home as they wait for the other lab results, as the vet
wants to determine that he is healthy enough to survive a surgery.

Of course the timing couldn't be worse as the transplant expenses are starting to come
in. But Woody is part of our family. He's 10 years old. I think he could recover well.

I have to call the vet after 2:00 today for the results.

[nextnoel]

Would your vet allow you to pay monthly rather than all at once?  My thoughts are as follows:

1.  Jenna has just gone through a very stressful (although positive) time in her life, and probably benefits greatly by having her loving cat of 10 years there for her.  There's a lot to be said for not having to lose something you love just now . . . .
2.  If the cat is otherwise healthy, if could live for a long time yet - my daughter's cat lived to be 19.

However you choose to go, my thoughts are with you - and with the poor cat!!

[kitkatz]

When it rains it pours around here, it seems.  Good luck with the cat.

[mcjane]

"You can judge a country by how it treats it's animals"

Ghandi

[Epoman]

Here is a video on YouTube showing dogs on dialysis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9DYuu0dm7o

Discuss?

  or 

- Epoman

[Amanda From OZ]

wow i never new they could even put dogs on dialysis!!

Two years ago my Mini foxy Midgy ate cockroach poison and his kidneys started to fail, luckily he came around! but he is left with only one kidney which does not work the best. What is the chance of everyone in my family having kidney problem?? lol 

In regards to Animal renal therapy, I am pretty sure they do not have that in Australia......... me and midgy could of dialyzed together lol