GOP Presidential Debate

[Hemodoc]

That's a good point, Willis. In fact, I intend to do further research on this exact issue.

And I do appreciate that you refrained form labeling anyone such as "you folks" and "people like me" which calls to mind a tribal mentality. When I see arguments resorting to tribalism "people like me" against "you folks" it actually reminds me of the kind of prejudice of which you speak.

In order to be clear, Merriam-Webster defines tribalism thus:

1: tribal consciousness and loyalty; especially : exaltation of the tribe above other groups
2: strong in-group loyalty

Arguments that resort to this approach are weakened, and often make it more difficult for all parties to move beyond prejudice in order to listen to the content.

While I enjoy hearing (and learning from) a variety of points of view, I often dismiss "arguments" that are heavily laden with pejoratives.

Aleta

Dear Willis, I know you wish to interject in a calm and reasoning voice, but I truly don't believe that is where "these folks" are at that wish to skewer the right wing Christians people like "you and me" who often identify with the Tea Party. In any case, they say that they wish to talk in open and friendly terms and how much that they hate "pejoratives," yet at the same time that they say they are against this type of verbal and personal attack, in the very post that they say they are against pejoratives, they threw another one my way. Perhaps they need a lesson on what pejoratives are.

Definition of PEJORATIVE: a word or phrase that has negative connotations or that is intended to disparage or belittle : a pejorative word or phrase.

I will simply state that this is just the tactics of obtuse irrelavent inflammatory comments used in their so called debates by taking my statement of people like me who support the Tea Party and you folks who are against it. If they can turn that into a false allegation of a pejorative, since it was only a description of the debating sides, I can now add another false allegation to the growing list of racism and closed mindedness a new pejorative about me: tribalism.

In any case Willis, good luck, you will need it.

[Hemodoc]

Dear Aleta, lest I need to remind others on IHD of the pejoratives you were recently warned for personal attacks, making clear whose side you are on is a strategy utilized by the left. Listen to Christ Matthews on this issue when discussing Alinsky. Your apology is expected for one more pejorative against me once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvng7TVf-wo

[willowtreewren]

Dear Aleta, lest I need to remind others on IHD of the pejoratives you were recently warned for personal attacks, making clear whose side you are on is a strategy utilized by the left. Listen to Christ Matthews on this issue when discussing Alinsky. Your apology is expected for one more pejorative against me once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvng7TVf-wo

What?

[Hemodoc]

Dear Aleta, lest I need to remind others on IHD of the pejoratives you were recently warned for personal attacks, making clear whose side you are on is a strategy utilized by the left. Listen to Christ Matthews on this issue when discussing Alinsky. Your apology is expected for one more pejorative against me once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvng7TVf-wo

What?

Oh, sorry, did you forget so quickly?

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=25300.msg413888#msg413888

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=25300.msg413922#msg413922

[YLGuy]

Really? Right after you just get done calling her absurd and gullible?

[willowtreewren]

Really? Right after you just get done calling her absurd and gullible?

Thank you, YLGuy! 

[galvo]

Is there really someone called "Christ Matthews"?

"You folks" are a giggle. I'm glad I"m not going to heaven.

[cariad]

Is there really someone called "Christ Matthews"?

"You folks" are a giggle. I'm glad I"m not going to heaven.

You either, huh? Don't worry, Saul Alinsky will teach us the ropes wherever we end up, galvo....

[Gerald Lively]

As the American political system progressed midway through the GOP primaries, we are heavily immersed in the issues of Birtherism, the comments of Rush Limbaugh, contraceptives, recreational sex, how many sponsors Limbaugh has lost, and who can sit on the grass at the US Supreme Court.  I have read many conservative commentaries that claim the 2012 general election is the most important in the history of this nation. We also know that the GOP is controlling the national discourse since this, after all, their primary season.  Strange days! 

Early on we all heard from the right-wing that the U.S. Constitution is sacred but then we heard GOP candidates who wish to change a few constitutional issues such as the right of privacy and legislate personal medical care, instruct you on what sort of sex you may have, reinterpretations of the First Amendment, we have even heard that the Ninth District of the Federal Court system be abolished.  Where oh where are the hypocrisy police.  If that doesn’t dazzle you, how about mixing religion and government as suggested by at least one major GOP candidate.

Why haven’t we heard about the real issues of the day; war, the economy, or the state of education through its entire spectrum (K-12 and four years of college)? 

Perhaps the answer to that rests with the Democrats who have not yet entered the national discussion.  But that answer suggests the GOP has nothing realistic to say.  Can that be true?

Who has the answers to federal budgeting, sticking with commitments, the war in Afghanistan and the temptation to war in Iran and Syria?  And why are we not talking about that?  What about an analysis of the GOP refusal in the last House session to adopt any economic measures and the why of it all?

The highly fractured right-wing is a disservice to Americans.  We haven’t heard from the Democrats but we have heard from the Republicans and the tone and subject matter is a collection of fringe politics.  Imagine this, “Birthers” gaining a national stage from which to shout, a Christian litmus test for any GOP candidate, and women as sub-citizens.

If the GOP controlled headlines do not change soon, their party may be on a suicidal path.  Perhaps a brokered convention would give the rank and file a chance to speak out.  Perhaps not.  But someone on the right has to get their head screwed on correctly or the game is over before it has even began.

[Hemodoc]

The game is already over Gerald. Perhaps you haven't read that yet. Yes, America wants their dildos and every perversion of sex openly and in public and for us (the taxpayor) to pay for it as you and others mentioned on another thread. The concept of freedom of religion is being trampled by the latest Obama/Alinsky attack on the church over the contraceptive issues. You truly have a skewed viewed of what conservatives represent. Truly amazing but no sense trying to convince you otherwise of all your delusional thinking about conservatives.

The Alinsky rules for radicals are quite effective to say the least, but the end result will be destruction for this nation. You Gerald are part of that. But, for the record, you will get your godless America soon. We are almost there today. The majority of people enjoy the ridicule and mockery of any semblance of family values seen on all the late night comics shows around America. That in my opinion is sad and nothing to be applauded.     

Do be careful what you ask for, you will most likely get every single issue you are asking for right now Gerald. Free sex, well actually paid in part by tax money, open debauchery accepted as public discourse as evidenced even here on many IHD threads, further entitilements to all Americans so none of us will have to ever work again and good old Uncle Sam will pay for everything and regulate everything. Yes, what a great and brave new world you are building.

Sounds like a real utopia to me. Well, that is until someone has to pay the bill to keep the lights on. I wonder who will pay the bills after all the 1%ers pack up and leave as they have already begun to do?

[Gerald Lively]

You overlooked my point entirely, and that is;  that the GOP’s failing to engage in the important issues of the day, is a disservice to voting Americans.  There is little doubt that GOP politics today are extreme. 

We see a Limbaugh who is willing to slander people and justifies this by using insults of public figures by the democrats when we all know that public figures are held to a different standard per malice and slander.  We see a Santorum who says any sex for a purpose other than procreation is immoral.  And we see the twisted argument on contraceptives that this will cost the taxpayers’ money when it will do no such thing regardless of a ban or not.  What we have out there is a group from the fringe elements moving toward fascism.

Your penchant for bringing Alinsky into every discussion is bullshit.  That means to me that you have no answers to a rational comment.

gerald

[KarenInWA]

I still don't get where taxpayes are paying for "dildoes and other perversions" when the issue re contraception was about employer-sponsored health insurance paying for contraception.  Since when do taxpayers pay for my employer-sponsored health insurance??? Granted, I work for a private company, not the government. But, if the employee pays any part of their health insurance premium, then their employer should not dictate what healthcare they receive. I feel that way about any and all healthcare that a patient may need.

Does this mean I was a slut when I was taking the pill while I was on dialysis to control renal anemia??? According to rush limbot I was. I read the transcript of what Sandra Fluke read to congress. I thought she had very good points, and none had to do with young women having wonton sex with lots of men. I don't understand where everyone gets that idea.

Then there's this sad blog written by the mother of a 16 year-old girl who takes the pill to control her painful, life-interrupting periods. Because of a field trip she went on with the school band, and a policy of Rx meds being handled by a doctor-parent-chaperone on the trip, some mean girls at her school started a war on her and called her a slut at school repeatedly, all because their moms "listen to that man on the radio who said so, and he's right about everything".  Um WTF?? Here is the link if you care to read it. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/04/1070800/-I-ve-spent-the-past-2-days-trying-to-convince-my-16-y-o-she-is-not-a-slut-?via=search


This country is turning into Jerry Springer because of blowhards like limbot. He crossed a line and went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard. If I were a Republican, I'd be mad as hell at him and thinking he was working for President Obama, because it is obvious that this is taking away from the real issues at hand, and making the Republicans look like chumps.

Edited to add: The transcript from Sandra Fluke's testimony to Congress. Yeah, it reads like a Penthouse erotica letter  http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/statement-Congress-letterhead-2nd%20hearing.pdf

KarenInWA

[Hemodoc]

You overlooked my point entirely, and that is;  that the GOP’s failing to engage in the important issues of the day, is a disservice to voting Americans.  There is little doubt that GOP politics today are extreme. 

We see a Limbaugh who is willing to slander people and justifies this by using insults of public figures by the democrats when we all know that public figures are held to a different standard per malice and slander.  We see a Santorum who says any sex for a purpose other than procreation is immoral.  And we see the twisted argument on contraceptives that this will cost the taxpayers’ money when it will do no such thing regardless of a ban or not.  What we have out there is a group from the fringe elements moving toward fascism.

Your penchant for bringing Alinsky into every discussion is bullshit.  That means to me that you have no answers to a rational comment.

gerald

Great rational answer. BS. Yes, yes, yes Gerald.

This is indeed a classic Alinsky move by Obama. Rule #13:

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.  In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
     "...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
     "One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

Come on Gerald, you are over 70 and are you going to tell me you are shocked that Catholic church opposes abortion and contraception? This is a pure and simple Alinsky pick the target, CONSERVATIVES. Freeze it, that is all folks like you are talking about and ingnoring the entire center of the GOP postulates. Personalize it. "War on my uterus," how much more personal can you get than that? The Catholics haven't suddenly added a new issue, this has been their stance for centuries. Nothing new. Polarize it. I don't believe you can find any issue today BROUGHT UP and CREATED by OBAMA that is more polarizing than this issue.

If you wish to be manipulated by the Obummer, go ahead. I find that pitiful myself, but not my issue.

By the way, Limbaugh is not running for office. He is an entertainer just like the liberal talk show host that called Laura Ingrham a slut a while back. Too bad you didn't take umbrage to that insult as well, nor did any on the liberal side. Yes, yes, yes, the new rules are you can call conservative white women sluts as long as they are conservatives. I disagree with that language for anyone and Limbaugh was wrong and is paying the price for opening his mouth incorrectly on that issue. So be it.

Fighting to preserve religious liberty is not fascism Gerald. The first amendment is freedom of religion not freedom from religion. If you are so concernced about facism, how about commenting on the NDAA and Holder's defense of killing US citizens. Did you catch the comments by the head of the FBI to see if these rules applied within the US? Sure, you are concernced about facsism when the Catholics simply state that they are against contraceptives, not anything new, and abortion but you seem to overlook what Obama is doing right before our eyes.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1496349721001/fbi-unclear-on-targeted-killing-rule-within-us

What am I missing Gerald, Please explain?

[YLGuy]

You overlooked my point entirely, and that is;  that the GOP’s failing to engage in the important issues of the day, is a disservice to voting Americans.
Your penchant for bringing Alinsky into every discussion is bullshit.  That means to me that you have no answers to a rational comment.

gerald

I got tired of a completely different question being answered than the one I asked.  Good luck with that! 

[Hemodoc]

I still don't get where taxpayes are paying for "dildoes and other perversions" when the issue re contraception was about employer-sponsored health insurance paying for contraception.  Since when do taxpayers pay for my employer-sponsored health insurance??? Granted, I work for a private company, not the government. But, if the employee pays any part of their health insurance premium, then their employer should not dictate what healthcare they receive. I feel that way about any and all healthcare that a patient may need.

Does this mean I was a slut when I was taking the pill while I was on dialysis to control renal anemia??? According to rush limbot I was. I read the transcript of what Sandra Fluke read to congress. I thought she had very good points, and none had to do with young women having wonton sex with lots of men. I don't understand where everyone gets that idea.

Then there's this sad blog written by the mother of a 16 year-old girl who takes the pill to control her painful, life-interrupting periods. Because of a field trip she went on with the school band, and a policy of Rx meds being handled by a doctor-parent-chaperone on the trip, some mean girls at her school started a war on her and called her a slut at school repeatedly, all because their moms "listen to that man on the radio who said so, and he's right about everything".  Um WTF?? Here is the link if you care to read it. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/04/1070800/-I-ve-spent-the-past-2-days-trying-to-convince-my-16-y-o-she-is-not-a-slut-?via=search


This country is turning into Jerry Springer because of blowhards like limbot. He crossed a line and went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard. If I were a Republican, I'd be mad as hell at him and thinking he was working for President Obama, because it is obvious that this is taking away from the real issues at hand, and making the Republicans look like chumps.

Edited to add: The transcript from Sandra Fluke's testimony to Congress. Yeah, it reads like a Penthouse erotica letter  http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/statement-Congress-letterhead-2nd%20hearing.pdf

KarenInWA

That was part of a comment on another thread by Gerald Karen.

As far as calling people sluts, I agree that is over the top and should not be acceptable. I believe that is what you believe as well. I guess you will join in criticism against Ed Shultz for calling Laura Ingraham a slut as well?

UPDATE: MSNBC announced Wednesday evening that Schultz is going on one week of unpaid leave as a result of these comments.

Original Post: Ed Schultz called conservative radio host Laura Ingraham a "right-wing slut" on his Tuesday radio show.

Schultz was criticizing Ingraham for what he saw as her hypocritical criticism of President Obama for drinking beer in Ireland while a tornado was destroying Joplin, Missouri:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/ed-schultz-laura-ingraham_n_866909.html

[Hemodoc]

You overlooked my point entirely, and that is;  that the GOP’s failing to engage in the important issues of the day, is a disservice to voting Americans.  There is little doubt that GOP politics today are extreme. 

We see a Limbaugh who is willing to slander people and justifies this by using insults of public figures by the democrats when we all know that public figures are held to a different standard per malice and slander.  We see a Santorum who says any sex for a purpose other than procreation is immoral.  And we see the twisted argument on contraceptives that this will cost the taxpayers’ money when it will do no such thing regardless of a ban or not.  What we have out there is a group from the fringe elements moving toward fascism.

Your penchant for bringing Alinsky into every discussion is bullshit.  That means to me that you have no answers to a rational comment.

gerald

Great rational answer. BS. Yes, yes, yes Gerald.

This is indeed a classic Alinsky move by Obama. Rule #13:

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.  In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
     "...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
     "One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

Come on Gerald, you are over 70 and are you going to tell me you are shocked that Catholic church opposes abortion and contraception? This is a pure and simple Alinsky pick the target, CONSERVATIVES. Freeze it, that is all folks like you are talking about and ingnoring the entire center of the GOP postulates. Personalize it. "War on my uterus," how much more personal can you get than that? The Catholics haven't suddenly added a new issue, this has been their stance for centuries. Nothing new. Polarize it. I don't believe you can find any issue today BROUGHT UP and CREATED by OBAMA that is more polarizing than this issue.

If you wish to be manipulated by the Obummer, go ahead. I find that pitiful myself, but not my issue.

By the way, Limbaugh is not running for office. He is an entertainer just like the liberal talk show host that called Laura Ingrham a slut a while back. Too bad you didn't take umbrage to that insult as well, nor did any on the liberal side. Yes, yes, yes, the new rules are you can call conservative white women sluts as long as they are conservatives. I disagree with that language for anyone and Limbaugh was wrong and is paying the price for opening his mouth incorrectly on that issue. So be it.

Fighting to preserve religious liberty is not fascism Gerald. The first amendment is freedom of religion not freedom from religion. If you are so concernced about facism, how about commenting on the NDAA and Holder's defense of killing US citizens. Did you catch the comments by the head of the FBI to see if these rules applied within the US? Sure, you are concernced about facsism when the Catholics simply state that they are against contraceptives, not anything new, and abortion but you seem to overlook what Obama is doing right before our eyes.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1496349721001/fbi-unclear-on-targeted-killing-rule-within-us

What am I missing Gerald, Please explain?

[Gerald Lively]

My post is not about Alinsky despite your preoccupation with whoever he is.  And, you have the law wrong on slander with malice.  A public figure is held to a different standard than a private citizen.  Limbaugh , with obvious malice, slandered Fluke.  She should sue.  The other incidents were all about public figures and were perfectly legitimate under very long-standing legal precedent.  Why you failed to read this in my previous message is a mystery.

The First Amendment does provide for freedom of religion and you incorrectly stated that it does not offer freedom FROM religion.  You could not be more wrong.  I do not have to join a religion to be a citizen of the United States.  Worse, I oppose any religious organization for the simple reason that religious beliefs are very private – as in: none of your business.  The very day the Catholic Church begins to establish the law in America, is the day we turn fascist.  Already we have a mix of corporations and government because the US has failed to utilize anti-trust laws as intended.  Limiting personal freedom in the next step to fascism.  Too bad you didn’t know this.

If you cannot address the issues of war, economics and still find a need to quote the Bible or Alinsky, this conversation is over.

gerald

[MooseMom]

A little over three years ago, birth control pills saved my life.

Yes, you read that right and no, it is not hyperbole.  I will spare you all the gory details because it was gruesome, but it is a fact that birth control pills saved my life.

I would not have been responsible for the fallout if someone had denied me this medication because of their "morals".

So, I resent this underlying assumption that contraception is only for the prevention of pregnancy due to constant, slutty sex.  It's just not true.

I believe that having access to affordable birth control IS a pro-family position.  I believe that a husband and wife should have the ability to determine and control the size of their family if this is what they choose to do.  I do not see anything wrong with wanting to take personal responsibility for the size of your family. 

This debate about whether or not employers should be forced to cover any medication or services they might not "agree with" wouldn't be happening if we had single payer, universal health care.  Your employer should not have the right to infringe upon the decisions made by you and your doctor.  What if your employer decided he wasn't going to pay for your dialysis because you're diabetic, and he thinks that it's your fault that you couldn't be arsed to eat properly or lose weight or do whatever he ignorantly thinks would have prevented your ESRD?  Really, should your employer have that much power over your life? 

Why do we expect business owners to provide health insurance?  If we are really that interested in businesses and their economic health, why do we insist they shoulder this particularly heinous expense?  I thought the Republicans were supposed to be Pro-Business, but this notion of making businesses provide insurance doesn't seem pro-business to me.  Can someone explain this to me? 

I am a patient gal, and I will wait until the GOP select their nominee.  After that, I want to see what that nominee has to say.  I want to see what his plan will be for the economy, for taxation, for an energy policy, for an immigration policy and for a foreign policy.

I will give President GW Bush one thing, and that is he attempted to craft a comprehensive immigration policy that included a path to citizenship.  I think that was a good path to be on, but it does not look like any of the current nominees are thinking along those same lines.  This concerns me as I don't know what else should be done with the millions of people who are here illegally.  Can you imagine how much it would cost to identify, round up, detain and then deport 12 million people?  It can't be done, so what do we do instead?  If a GOP nominee utters a compassionate word about this group of people (like Rick Perry did in one of the debates), they're thrown to the wolves.  Little did I know I'd ever stick up for Rick Perry!!  LOL!

And Iran...OMG, what's going to happen there!  We all know that two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have broken our economy.  Even if you agreed with the basic premises of those wars, you still cannot say that they have done anything but ruin our economy.  And the GOP nominees are advocating entering another war with a country that's not the backwater like Iraq and Afghanistan.  Do we forget so quickly the tremendous cost of warfare?  And this is to protect Israel?  Why are we going to war to protect Israel?  Are we going to let another nation pull us into war?  This really, really scares me, and I can't tell if Romney et al really want to do this or if they are just saying what they perceive their base wants to hear.

I understand the appeal of, say, Mr. Romney to those people who see his business experience as a conduit to the eventual financial health of the US.  But again, I am very uncomfortable with the idea that government should be run as a business, and this is what Mr. Romney seems to be saying.  All of us with CKD/ESRD would be the first ones to be fired because we are not good for America's profit margin.

The love of family, of country, of business, of faith, of innovation and of fair play are not solely conservative values.  The desire to send your kids for higher education is not "snobbish".  Investing in America means investing in AMERICANS and in all of those who want to live here, learn here and work here.

I know that the role of religion in making policy has been a subject of debate.  I am no theologian, but I'm sitting here looking at my copy of the Constitution, and there is no mention of "God".  Now, in the Declaration of Independence, first paragraph, there is reference to "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God", but whose God?  Why are we assuming any and all references to "God" in any of our historical documents are to a Christian God?  It is my understanding that Muslims, Jews and Christians all pray to the same God; the differences come in the interpretation of the role of Jesus Christ, and I can't find any reference specifically to "Jesus Christ" anywhere.  I was watching an Indian movie the other day that took place in the Punjab, and even THEY were talking about "God".  My point is that I am not sure what is meant by the phrase "people of faith."  When Rick Santorum said that to think there is no place for "people of faith" in the public square made him want to throw up, does he mean to imply that devout Muslims and devout Hindus have a place in our government, maybe even in the Oval Office?  If the President was a devout Muslim, wouldn't he, too, be a "person of faith"?  Or does that kind of faith not count?  Whose faith is the proper faith?

It was proper that Ed Schultz was removed from the air when he called Laura I. a "slut".  I've looked at his apology several times, and he spent almost nine minutes apologizing for a comment that took 1 second to make.  Rush L. went on a tirade that lasted three days.  He's been married 4 times and he doesn't know how birth control works.  To even jokingly suggest that Sandra Fluke post sexually explicit videos of herself in return for her birth control is just too pervy and gross.  Ewwwww....

[Willis]

Why haven’t we heard about the real issues of the day; war, the economy, or the state of education through its entire spectrum (K-12 and four years of college)?

At least one candidate--Ron Paul--has consistently and emphatically discussed those very issues among many others such as the ridiculous "war on drugs." Now if we met face-to-face and had a nice friendly chat about politics you might wind up considering me a right-wing extremist. But there is a significant part of the conservative Right--Libertarian actually--that just wants the government to follow the Constitution and quit spending Other Peoples Money until we go bankrupt. Otherwise, we just don't care if someone is gay or smokes dope or doesn't believe in God. Just leave us the hell alone. These are the true conservatives and they are damn few in number as Ron Paul's delegate count is proving.

I must add very emphatically too that most of the entrenched Republicans in office and what little right-leaning press there is do their best to ignore Ron Paul. It's like he's a figment of everyone's imagination..."don't pay attention to that old fart standing next to Santorum."

Imagine this, “Birthers” gaining a national stage from which to shout, a Christian litmus test for any GOP candidate, and women as sub-citizens.

Now with this I must turn things around and call B.S. on you...I can tell that you are smart enough to know propaganda when you hear it (form both sides) and it doesn't do your arguments any justice to be spreading silly canards and opinions based on 15-second sound bites.

But either way Gerald...here's to ya! 

 

[amanda100wilson]

Why is it that Republicans believe in foisting their moral views on other people all the time?   We talk about fundamentalism in the Middle East, but we need to be VERY careful that the same does not happen in this country too.

[KarenInWA]

I'm going to have to agree with GL and MM about the left-wing media personalities calling right-wing media personalities or politicians "sluts" or "whores". There is a huge difference of doing that to public figures (especially, in the case of Ed Schultz, when it's personality to personality) than doing that to a private citizen who is speaking his/her voice. Granted, that private citizen is putting him/herself out there, but that does not mean that some radio blow-hard can go on a tirade about said person for literally *days* about something he doesn't even know anything about! Yes, Ed Schultz called Laura Ingraham a slut, but he didn't do it repeatedly for days on end. I saw him do his apology on tv, and I too, believed it was well done and humble.  And he did this on his own show's airtime. And, I think it's safe to say that he isn't going to do that again!

I do feel that those who call others names like that deaden the point of view that they're trying to get a across. It's immature, no matter what side is represented. But, once it's out there, it's out there, and the person who spoke it has to eat crow. Ed Schultz ate his, rush limbot barely ate a feather, especially when you compare calling someone a slut vs his whiney tirade. And that's what it was, nothing but a whiney tirade from a big, overgrown child of a male being. Just the thought of him is enough of a contraceptive! (although, not enough to control periods or help with ovarian cysts....)

MooseMom, as always, you get your point of view across very eloquently, and I feel like you speak my mind when I read your posts. Thank you for that! 

KarenInWA

[Hemodoc]

My post is not about Alinsky despite your preoccupation with whoever he is.  And, you have the law wrong on slander with malice.  A public figure is held to a different standard than a private citizen.  Limbaugh , with obvious malice, slandered Fluke.  She should sue.  The other incidents were all about public figures and were perfectly legitimate under very long-standing legal precedent.  Why you failed to read this in my previous message is a mystery.

The First Amendment does provide for freedom of religion and you incorrectly stated that it does not offer freedom FROM religion.  You could not be more wrong.  I do not have to join a religion to be a citizen of the United States.  Worse, I oppose any religious organization for the simple reason that religious beliefs are very private – as in: none of your business.  The very day the Catholic Church begins to establish the law in America, is the day we turn fascist.  Already we have a mix of corporations and government because the US has failed to utilize anti-trust laws as intended.  Limiting personal freedom in the next step to fascism.  Too bad you didn’t know this.

If you cannot address the issues of war, economics and still find a need to quote the Bible or Alinsky, this conversation is over.

gerald

Yeah, yeah. Yes. It is over Gerald, agree to disagree. You are simply wrong as always.

[Hemodoc]

I still don't get where taxpayes are paying for "dildoes and other perversions" when the issue re contraception was about employer-sponsored health insurance paying for contraception.  Since when do taxpayers pay for my employer-sponsored health insurance??? Granted, I work for a private company, not the government. But, if the employee pays any part of their health insurance premium, then their employer should not dictate what healthcare they receive. I feel that way about any and all healthcare that a patient may need.

Does this mean I was a slut when I was taking the pill while I was on dialysis to control renal anemia??? According to rush limbot I was. I read the transcript of what Sandra Fluke read to congress. I thought she had very good points, and none had to do with young women having wonton sex with lots of men. I don't understand where everyone gets that idea.

Then there's this sad blog written by the mother of a 16 year-old girl who takes the pill to control her painful, life-interrupting periods. Because of a field trip she went on with the school band, and a policy of Rx meds being handled by a doctor-parent-chaperone on the trip, some mean girls at her school started a war on her and called her a slut at school repeatedly, all because their moms "listen to that man on the radio who said so, and he's right about everything".  Um WTF?? Here is the link if you care to read it. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/04/1070800/-I-ve-spent-the-past-2-days-trying-to-convince-my-16-y-o-she-is-not-a-slut-?via=search


This country is turning into Jerry Springer because of blowhards like limbot. He crossed a line and went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard. If I were a Republican, I'd be mad as hell at him and thinking he was working for President Obama, because it is obvious that this is taking away from the real issues at hand, and making the Republicans look like chumps.

Edited to add: The transcript from Sandra Fluke's testimony to Congress. Yeah, it reads like a Penthouse erotica letter  http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/statement-Congress-letterhead-2nd%20hearing.pdf

KarenInWA

Dear Karen, when you are outraged by the Ed Shultz comments as well, then your dialogue will have more meaning than simply falling in line with Democratic presidential propaganda. I already stated I disagree with calling anyone that name, Period.

As far as insurance coverage, you pay for what you get. Insurance companies have various levels of coverage. Some just the bare bones, others pay for every aspect. The price of those coverages reflects what you buy.

Not to defend Rush, but the analogy he tried and failed to make is that if they are asking the government to pay for contraceptives, that is tantamount to paying for sex which would make her a prostitute and a slut. No one seems to quote it in the context he stated. I would not have stated that, but that is what he stated in a hypothetical that has obviously failed. Fluke knowingly went to a university that publicly opposes contraception. No one forced her to go there. She could have chosen a thousand secular schools, but instead she chose to go there with their very public no contraception policy. Now Obama is stirring up a hornets nest for his own poltical gain over a settled Catholic issue. That would be like going to BYU and asking where's the Starbuck's coffee shop? Ain't going to happen at BYU if you know what I mean.

This is a deliberite crises created by Obama to win the female vote in November. No one is stating limits on existing policies. He is instead trying to force religious institutions to go against their religious teaching which you or anyone else is free to dismiss and go to school somewhere else.

I personally believe we should get a Starbucks on every corner of Mormon schools and campuses, it is my right to have coffee anywhere I wish in this nation. After all, that is my right!!

Sorry, we have a right to privacy. I suspect folks don't understand that you are turning over your rights to privacy by insisting on government sponsored contraception. That gives the goverment the right to REGULATE that entitlement.

But if that is what you folks want, go for it. No skin off of my nose.

[Hemodoc]

Why is it that Republicans believe in foisting their moral views on other people all the time?   We talk about fundamentalism in the Middle East, but we need to be VERY careful that the same does not happen in this country too.

Dear Amanda, actually, it is the other way around on this issue quite blatently of forcing the Catholics to support contraception against their teachings. Abortion is the law of the land against millions of innocent children in the womb who have all of their rights aborted with their young lives. Who shall speak for their innocent blood?

By the way, look up the history of this nation and you will see it WAS and I emphasize, WAS a Christian nation that it was founded upon. We are long ways from being a Christian nation any longer much to our own demise.

[KarenInWA]

I still don't get where taxpayes are paying for "dildoes and other perversions" when the issue re contraception was about employer-sponsored health insurance paying for contraception.  Since when do taxpayers pay for my employer-sponsored health insurance??? Granted, I work for a private company, not the government. But, if the employee pays any part of their health insurance premium, then their employer should not dictate what healthcare they receive. I feel that way about any and all healthcare that a patient may need.

Does this mean I was a slut when I was taking the pill while I was on dialysis to control renal anemia??? According to rush limbot I was. I read the transcript of what Sandra Fluke read to congress. I thought she had very good points, and none had to do with young women having wonton sex with lots of men. I don't understand where everyone gets that idea.

Then there's this sad blog written by the mother of a 16 year-old girl who takes the pill to control her painful, life-interrupting periods. Because of a field trip she went on with the school band, and a policy of Rx meds being handled by a doctor-parent-chaperone on the trip, some mean girls at her school started a war on her and called her a slut at school repeatedly, all because their moms "listen to that man on the radio who said so, and he's right about everything".  Um WTF?? Here is the link if you care to read it. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/04/1070800/-I-ve-spent-the-past-2-days-trying-to-convince-my-16-y-o-she-is-not-a-slut-?via=search


This country is turning into Jerry Springer because of blowhards like limbot. He crossed a line and went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overboard. If I were a Republican, I'd be mad as hell at him and thinking he was working for President Obama, because it is obvious that this is taking away from the real issues at hand, and making the Republicans look like chumps.

Edited to add: The transcript from Sandra Fluke's testimony to Congress. Yeah, it reads like a Penthouse erotica letter  http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/statement-Congress-letterhead-2nd%20hearing.pdf

KarenInWA

Dear Karen, when you are outraged by the Ed Shultz comments as well, then your dialogue will have more meaning than simply falling in line with Democratic presidential propaganda. I already stated I disagree with calling anyone that name, Period so no need to display all of your public sexuality. None of my business, nor anyone elses.

As far as insurance coverage, you pay for what you get. Insurance companies have various levels of coverage. Some just the bare bones, others pay for every aspect. The price of those coverages reflects what you buy.

Not to defend Rush, but the analogy he tried and failed to make is that if they are asking the government to pay for contraceptives, that is tantamount to paying for sex which would make her a prostitute and a slut. No one seems to quote it in the context he stated.I would not have stated that, but that is what he stated in a hypothetical that has obviously failed. Fluke knowingly went to a university that publicly opposes contraception. No one forced her to go there. She could have chosen a thousand secular schools, but instead she chose to go there with their very public no contraception policy. Now Obama is stirriing up a hornets nest for his own poltical gain over a settled Catholic issue. That would be like going to BYU and asking where's the Starbuck's coffee shop? Ain't going to happen at BYU if you know what I mean.

This is a deliberite crises created by Obama to win the female vote in November. No one is stating limits on existing policies. He is instead trying to force religious institutions to go against their religious teaching which you or anyone else is free to dismiss and go to school somewhere else.

I personally believe we should get a Starbucks on every corner of Mormon schools and campuses, it is my right to have coffee anywhere I wish in this nation. After all, that is my right!!

Sorry, we have a right to privacy. I suspect folks don't understand that you are turning over your rights to privacy by insisting on government sponsored contraception. That gives the goverment the right to REGULATE that entitlement.

But if that is what you folks want, go for it. No skin off of my nose.

Hemodoc, I still don't get how or why you think this has anything to do with government paying for contraception?!?! Again, this whole issue is around employer-sponsored health insurance.  In the case of Fluke, it was University-sponsored health insurance that the students had to pay full premiums for. Nowhere in her testimony did she say anything about herself having sex. She did say, however, that the insurance in question would pay for birth control pills for medical reasons. They would call patients who were prescribed this to make sure it was for a legitimate medical reason. They did not pay for her friend's birth control because they apparently did not believe her - even though said friend was a lesbian, and therefore, would have no need to take birth control pills for contraception. As a result, she could not afford the $100 a month her doctor-prescribed pills cost each month, and she ended up having surgery, which has resulted in more medical issues. Can you not see what is wrong with that???

Also, I'm a bit confused. At what point in my above quoted post did I display my public sexuality??? Is it the fact that I was on the pill to help regulate renal anemia a part of my sexuality??? Really??? I looked at it as a way to lessen my periods so I wouldn't have to deal with a dip in my hgb each month.  When I started those pills, along with my epo shots at D, my hgb stabilized and I was even able to take periodic breaks from epo. Before that, I was stuck at under 10. My quality of life improved, and I was better able to do my job, drive my car, and live my life. I worked FT all throughout my time on D, and was lucky in that I experienced little to no side effects. And I did the horrible in-center, 3 times a week D. I was going to look into doing HHD, but a family member donated her kidney to me, so I didn't.

If rush limbot had called Sandra Fluke a slut once, and that was it, this whole issue would have died a much sooner death that what has transpired.  He didn't do that, he harped on it for *DAYS*. That is why I am outraged over what he did vs what Ed did. Also, Ed did a formal apology *on his own show's airtime* and had a week of unpaid administrative leave. There is no way that you can compare Ed to rush. Ed said a word and did a big apology. Rush had a whiney-boy tirade for days and barely burped to the media. If I were a conservative, I'd be ashamed and embarassed over his behavior, and I'd be mad as hell for him doing what he did in helping to make the Republican party a joke. More so if I was a fan of his.

KarenInWA