How caregivers express themselves

[sandman]

I have been noticing that a lot of the caregivers I have taken notice to lately, seem to generally only express their helplessness toward their inability to help their sick spouses/family members in public.  I don't mean to sound insensitive or anything as I am not yet a legal caregiver but hope to be one to Angie someday.  I was wondering if this is the normal everyday life of a caregiver or do caregivers also try to make their spouses/family members days brighter by focusing on doing nice things and making them feel loved and hopeful?

I know that a patients life is stressful and depressing enough with having to deal with being sick and random feelings of helplessness for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.  I personally don't ever want to add to Angie's stress but I don't want her to think that I am not taking her illness seriously, because I am.  I really want to do anything I can to put her depression to rest.

I am hoping to open this up for discussion and I want to hear everyones opinions.

[okarol]

The worry and stress does wear you down, as caretaker. I think it comes out because we need help and support too, and voicing
it in the open is probably a healthy thing. But I personally agree with the good side of being a caretaker, which is bringing some
fun and optimism into the life of the patient! I always try to do things with Jenna - take her to plays or movies, go walking or
even just to the video store to rent a game. She really appreciates the little things, which makes helping her even more gratifying.

[Sluff]

Here's a little twist on this topic. See what you think.

My wife (legally separated for financial reasons) and I still live together and everything is the same as being married. The reason we did not divorce is because I need the health insurance. I know we love each other and everybody has their quirks, but relating to this topic I wonder if anyone else gets the feeling that even their spouse and/or caregiver gets angry at them and forgets that they have an illness as serious as ckd.

Here's my question, Does it seem that after awhile the spouse/caregiver becomes selfish and treats you better in front of others, possibly to make themselves look better? I mean is that Love? I wonder if I don't say thanks enough or what? It's not like I can't take care of myself, my disease hasn't even gotten to the point of needing to depend on others. All I'm needing is a little understanding. Everyday she'll ask what did you do all day, and it makes me feel guilty if I was too sick feeling to work that day. This is not meant to be a rant this is just a question to get others perspectives as Sandman asked.

[jedimaster]

Of all things, compassion and understanding of what we all are going though is the key. Life goes on, no doubt, and something that IS a burden, like connecting to a machine to be able to live becomes routine for everybody else but the ones doing dialysis. I have to acknowledge that I have great support from my wife, who works a thousand times harder than I do (or I can), and great support from my medical team, who call me, out of the blue, just to know how am I doing...they call to listen and they do. My point is that a caregiver must acknowledge that we are individuals with individual issues, fears and individual side effects to this illness. We are not "part of the job"...we are PEOPLE. Treat others the way you would be treated.

[paris]

As the "patient", I think it is so hard for my husband to understand all of this. He sounds like he does when he is talking to relatives, BUT I sometimes think he just doesn't get it.  Christmas has really wiped me out. He had to buy gifts for ---- oh yeah, just for me.  I had to shop for 4 children, 2 DIL, 7 grandchildren, 6 siblings, and other extended family. Which means I must have wrapped over 100 presents. I cooked the holiday meal, cleaned the house, decorated the house, made all the holiday goodies. Granted, school is out, so I am off for 2 weeks.  I can hardly move today and the phone keeps ringing off the hook! I know he is calling to see what I am doing. I am doing nothing--NOTHING--but I feel guilty for doing nothing. I feel compelled to have the house in order and dinner ready when he gets home.  Every day he tells me how much his head hurts or his knees or whatever.  He really is a good guy and I know he hates me going thru this, but he seems to choose not to think about it and so life should go on as usual.   So, caregivers, just do things. Scrub the floor without being asked. Bring home dinner. Don't keep asking "what is wrong?"  My life, that is what is wrong!!!  We don't like our lives being so different. It truly is the little things that make a difference. Let us be "down" once in awhile. We are going thru alot of emotional junk as well as physical.   Seems like I had a lot to say!! Sorry -- get this way when I am worn out!

[jasperkat]

As a caregiver and a wife I am committed to making my husband's life as pleasant as possible.  I try to relieve him of the conflicts and demands that go with his health issues.  I figure he has enough to do just getting through each day.  I take care of all the things that need done in our lives and I fight whatever battles that exist with insurance, dialysis and whatever else.  I do ask him is he is alright so many times that I drive myself crazy.  I think taking time for myself helps too.  If I need to get away I arranged for home healthcare services and transportation and get away for a few day.s  It makes a world of difference and I come back ready to take on the world again. 

[Kitty Cat]

We've had so much going on lately that this is perfect for me right now. I try to keep things as "normal" as they can possibly be for my husband. He feels bad enough having to depend on people for rides and such. Just walking for him is really tough and he's in a wheelchair most of the time.  I try to reassure him that all of this is okay, I'm just thrilled he's still here. On the other hand, I can't even count the hundreds of times I've cried the entire way to work and home from work. I don't want to break down in front of him, but sometimes I feel so hopeless I just don't know what to do. It's very rough especially now because he will be having surgery in just a few short weeks. But that's another topic...

[kitkatz]

I know your feelings.  Hubby is in a wheelchair at home and is using a walker when we go out.  It is hard to be the one who watches him try to cope.  But then I see both sides because I am in renal failure and on dialysis and he is a recent amputee.  We just lean on each other and go ever onward.  I do not know what "Normal" is anymore.  We are creating new ways of living everyday we make it together.

[glitter]

I too try to keep things as normal as i can for my husband-I don't ask him to do anything,as it seems surviving is his struggle right now.That being said,I do have days I am overwhelmed.I have days I cry a bunch,but I do try to not let these circumstances get the best of me....I refuse to let dialysis win....we still have many things to be thankful for,and if I expect anything from my husband,I expect him to count our blessings on occasion,just to remind himself what a bounty we do have. On the days when life feels the worst-I can usually act silly and cheer him up,or the kids and I sing to him all the happy songs-like'You are my Sunshine" and since we are wayyy off key it makes him laugh!!

But sometimes when people ask'And how are You holding up dear?' to me......I just don't know what to say-I know they mean well,but I do not do anything special,I just get up everyday,and do what I have to do.end of story

[Ohio Buckeye]

Life is so hard with its many challenges.

[Bajanne]

Just a totally irrelevant and unrelated comment.  Did you notice the proliferation of the feline species in this post - we have Jasperkat, then Kitty Cat, then Kitkatz. 

[mallory]

Sandman, Angie is lucky to have you, your post shows that you do understand and you want what is best for Angie, and I know she'll appreciate it.

Sometimes I think the life of a caregiver might even be harder than my life as a patient.  I worry all the time about how much of a burden everything has become for my sister.  She always says, just like Kitty Cat, that she's just glad I'm still here and she'll do anything she can to make sure I stay here.  But I know it's hard for her and I try to do as much as I can so that she doesn't feel like she has to be responsible for everything.

I think it's so important to have as"normal" of a life as you can, but, like Kitkatz said, sometimes that's not really possible so you invent new ways to make it work for you.  My sister and I still go to Yellowstone every year, but we don't hike. I still love to go, and we have a very good time.  That's what's important, just what you said, focus on doing nice things and making them feel loved and hopeful.  And don't forget to take care of you!

[Epoman]

I have been noticing that a lot of the caregivers I have taken notice to lately, seem to generally only express their helplessness toward their inability to help their sick spouses/family members in public.  I don't mean to sound insensitive or anything as I am not yet a legal caregiver but hope to be one to Angie someday.  I was wondering if this is the normal everyday life of a caregiver or do caregivers also try to make their spouses/family members days brighter by focusing on doing nice things and making them feel loved and hopeful?

I know that a patients life is stressful and depressing enough with having to deal with being sick and helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.  I personally don't ever want to add to Angie's stress but I don't want her to think that I am not taking her illness seriously, because I am.  I really want to do anything I can to put her depression to rest.

I am hoping to open this up for discussion and I want to hear everyones opinions.

Well, I am FAR from "helpless" as you put it. 

I personally don't ever want to add to Angie's stress

Well then a good start would be to not let her think you think of her as being "sick and helpless" I know it would depress the shit out of me if my wife thought of me as "sick and helpless".

- Epoman

[sandman]

I have been noticing that a lot of the caregivers I have taken notice to lately, seem to generally only express their helplessness toward their inability to help their sick spouses/family members in public.  I don't mean to sound insensitive or anything as I am not yet a legal caregiver but hope to be one to Angie someday.  I was wondering if this is the normal everyday life of a caregiver or do caregivers also try to make their spouses/family members days brighter by focusing on doing nice things and making them feel loved and hopeful?

I know that a patients life is stressful and depressing enough with having to deal with being sick and helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.  I personally don't ever want to add to Angie's stress but I don't want her to think that I am not taking her illness seriously, because I am.  I really want to do anything I can to put her depression to rest.

I am hoping to open this up for discussion and I want to hear everyones opinions.

Well, I am FAR from "helpless" as you put it. 

I personally don't ever want to add to Angie's stress

Well then a good start would be to not let her think you think of her as being "sick and helpless" I know it would depress the shit out of me if my wife thought of me as "sick and helpless".

- Epoman

I don't think of any patient as sick and helpless Bill but it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves that think they are just that when they want to do something but can't because of their limitation.  I feel it is my job to help Angie see the good things in life that she can do and still enjoy.

[Kitty Cat]

Even though the stress is sometimes overwhelming, there are things that we have learned that we would not have learned had he never become sick like this. We have learned to appreciate every little thing. Things we had missed before, like the little birds sitting at the bird feeder, we were at the table watching a mama bird feeding her baby. Had he not been sick, we wouldn't have been sitting at the table talking. I also think our relationship is so much stronger because of all this. Maybe it is because of what everybody has said and we are very dependent on each other to get through the days. But previous to this, we didn't take the time that we do now. Just cuddling on the couch means so much more than ever. I wouldn't trade these things for anything else in the world and it's sad that it took Renal failure to wake us up to see the world at a slower speed. We've been married 23 years, he's been very sick for the last 7 and really housebound for the last 3. There isn't a thing in the world I wouldn't do for him, but when he is suffering, especially as he has been lately, it breaks my heart. That is when I'm most likely to cry and dwell on everything. I just become so confused and depressed over the very bad parts. I'm really trying to keep my spirits up over the upcoming surgery. Which I just found out may be moved up quickly because of some major problems.

So, I don't mean to sound like I've given up hope. As long as we still breathe, there is hope. I just wish (as everyone does) that I had a magic wand and could cure him completely so he could again enjoy a lot of things that he can't do anymore, like hiking. We have a state forest near us and can take his automatic wheelchair in there on the flatlands and our daughter and her boyfriend bought him a fishing rod so that they can take him fishing next spring.

This is such a confusing disease for all involved that we do exactly as KitKatz said, normal now means what ever fits into that moment.

Sometimes I don't word things just right and it comes out a little weird, I'm hoping this comes off right and not that I've thrown in the towel. I just try. That's the best I can offer. But you have all been wonderful, I've learned so much and it's refreshing to communicate with people that know how you feel and really understand. This is the best site I've ever found!

[goofynina]

Amen Kitty Cat, AAAAAAMEN!!!  This post says it all for me too, especially the part about appreciating every "little" thing, things that i wouldnt of noticed before.  Yep yep, you are definetly singing my song....and as for this being the best site you found,  we are glad you found it too and that deserves another AAAAAMEN!!! 

[angieskidney]

I am touched that Jeff is thinking so far into the future! Thanks everyone for giving him advice! 

I just wanted to clarify that he isn't saying dialysis patients are helpless, but I think he just meant in the future if my health gets worse (I don't consider it that bad right now as I am stable, I can walk, work and my labs are pretty stable).

[Sluff]

Sometimes I don't word things just right and it comes out a little weird, I'm hoping this comes off right and not that I've thrown in the towel. I just try. That's the best I can offer. But you have all been wonderful, I've learned so much and it's refreshing to communicate with people that know how you feel and really understand. This is the best site I've ever found!

I'm glad that you can come here and explain the good and the bad that goes along with kidney disease, you're a special person (plain and simple) to be able to be a caretaker, it's no easy task to perform sometimes.  Your caring, Love and compassion speaks in volumes, there is nothing weird about the way you word things. It's hard sometimes to put into words ones own feelings. You did a fine job.

[Epoman]

I am touched that Jeff is thinking so far into the future! Thanks everyone for giving him advice! 

I just wanted to clarify that he isn't saying dialysis patients are helpless, but I think he just meant in the future if my health gets worse (I don't consider it that bad right now as I am stable, I can walk, work and my labs are pretty stable).

Let me quote Jeff:

I know that a patients life is stressful and depressing enough with having to deal with being sick and helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.

Then he says this:

I don't think of any patient as sick and helpless Bill but it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves that think they are just that when they want to do something but can't because of their limitation.

And again, I will say I have NEVER thought of myself as helpless, sick yes helpless, NO. Plus I would say that the majority of our members are pretty strong and not helpless at all. Members like Goofynina, Sluff, Bajanne, Rerun, Zach, Kitkatz, Panda_9, and many, many others come to mind. So I am not sure what Jeff means when he says "it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves"  Hell I have been in a wheelchair for 6 years and I hate it, but I do not think of myself as helpless. How many "patients" does Jeff know to make such a bold statement?

Don't worry Angie, I am not upset with Jeff at all (no need to defend him), I would just like a better clarification from HIM, so lets let Jeff speak for himself shall we?

Because I feel the last thing that a sick person ever wants to feel is "Helpless" and when they do reach that level, then they have lost their will and fight. I know that is why I do all that I do, even when I am sick and feel like crap.

- Epoman

[sandman]

I am touched that Jeff is thinking so far into the future! Thanks everyone for giving him advice! 

I just wanted to clarify that he isn't saying dialysis patients are helpless, but I think he just meant in the future if my health gets worse (I don't consider it that bad right now as I am stable, I can walk, work and my labs are pretty stable).

Let me quote Jeff:

I know that a patients life is stressful and depressing enough with having to deal with being sick and helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.

Then he says this:

I don't think of any patient as sick and helpless Bill but it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves that think they are just that when they want to do something but can't because of their limitation.

And again, I will say I have NEVER thought of myself as helpless, sick yes helpless, NO. Plus I would say that the majority of our members are pretty strong and not helpless at all. Members like Goofynina, Sluff, Bajanne, Rerun, Zach, Kitkatz, Panda_9, and many, many others come to mind. So I am not sure what Jeff means when he says "it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves"  Hell I have been in a wheelchair for 6 years and I hate it, but I do not think of myself as helpless. How many "patients" does Jeff know to make such a bold statement?

Don't worry Angie, I am not upset with Jeff at all (no need to defend him), I would just like a better clarification from HIM, so lets let Jeff speak for himself shall we?

Because I feel the last thing that a sick person ever wants to feel is "Helpless" and when they do reach that level, then they have lost their will and fight. I know that is why I do all that I do, even when I am sick and feel like crap.

- Epoman

Okay.  You want my reply?  Here it goes.....

First off, I don't think that this message was called for.  Everyone else who replied to this thread didn't take any offense to what I said because no offense was intended.  Sure, maybe I could have worded my statement better but what is done, is done.  Maybe a statement of "feeling helpless" would have been better?  You have been on dialysis for quite some time Bill and do you mean to tell me that over all these years, you have not felt one day of helplessness?  I know I sure as hell have and I'm not a patient or even a legal caregiver yet.  Seriously Bill, how did you feel when you were first diagnosed with kidney disease?

[mallory]

Okay, I have to say that I feel sick and/or helpless sometimes.  I work full time, usually about 50 hours a week.  I'm active in my church and in my community, I travel, I have a great life, but, I do have bad days.  I don't know if it's because of the vasculitis or the kidney failure, but I do have days and times when I feel helpless and even hopeless.  For instance, I feel helpless that I can't move my PD solution boxes because I can't lift them.  I used to be able to lift that much, but now I can't and someone has to move them for me.  I feel helpless when I need something from my basement, but because I can't make it back up the 14 stairs to the basement someone has to get it for me.  It makes me feel bad that my team at work has to find a conference room that is close to our work area (or at least on the same floor) because it's hard for me to walk a long way to a meeting.  I feel helpless on the days that I'm having a bad day and my sister has to do the grocery shopping because I can't walk that far, so I wait in the car.

Sometimes I feel hopeless, for instance, the day my doctor told me I couldn't have a kidney transplant unless I could get my vasculitis into remission so that they could take me off the medication for it.  I felt hopeless when they were changing the insurance I have at work and I thought I would have to pay more for my medication than my total monthly salary.  I felt scared, and a little hopeless, the day I started dialysis and the social worker gave me the forms for my living will and advance directives.

I'm not speaking for Sandman, but I understood his post to mean that he wants to make Angie's life as good and as positive as possible, in spite of her illness, however the illness makes her feel.

Maybe the rest of you never feel helpless, but I sure have times when I do.  And the things that help me are that when I am able to do something, I do it.  Also, there are things that are my responsibility that are never my sisters responsibility, for example, taking care of my dad's medications.  And, my sister does everything she can to keep a positive attitude, even when mine isn't.  The day the doctor told me he didn't think I would get a transplant because of the vasculitis and the med's I'm on, she kept reminding how well I've done with the vasculitis and how much my med's had already changed and kept reassuring me that someday I would get a transplant.  I needed that.  I needed someone to believe the best and to tell me that it would be okay, because, right at that moment, I didn't think it would be.

Having vasculitis, and the kidney and lung problems that have resulted from it, has had a very significant impact on my life.  I deeply appreciate those in my life that are helping me get through all my days, the good and the bad ones.

[angieskidney]

And, my sister does everything she can to keep a positive attitude, even when mine isn't.  The day the doctor told me he didn't think I would get a transplant because of the vasculitis and the med's I'm on, she kept reminding how well I've done with the vasculitis and how much my med's had already changed and kept reassuring me that someday I would get a transplant.  I needed that.  I needed someone to believe the best and to tell me that it would be okay, because, right at that moment, I didn't think it would be.

Having vasculitis, and the kidney and lung problems that have resulted from it, has had a very significant impact on my life.  I deeply appreciate those in my life that are helping me get through all my days, the good and the bad ones.

Mallory, that is the most perfect response to what Jeff was asking! Thank you!   

There are days I feel helpless as well like when my energy drops and the weather is bad out and I am sick from biking in the rain or snow. Or when my BP drops at dialysis and I can't seem to push that darned door open when I go out to the cab and the cab driver doesn't open the door for me because he sees me as a young healthy girl who can do it myself. Sometimes I get depressed at how I was getting somewhere in my career and then lost it all and had to claim bankruptcy. But Jeff encourages me every day and gives me hope! Jeff is amazing and makes me took to the future instead of dwelling on the past!

We definately couldn't do this alone could we? We DO need the people in our lives to help us out and be there for us! I find what helps me is when Jeff (or anyone for that matter) lets me go off and bitch like I do. I can be a very grumpy person not happy with anything .. but as long as I have my time to vent then I feel better and am instantly a more cheerful person. It really does help.

Thank you to all caregivers who understand 

[Epoman]

I am touched that Jeff is thinking so far into the future! Thanks everyone for giving him advice! 

I just wanted to clarify that he isn't saying dialysis patients are helpless, but I think he just meant in the future if my health gets worse (I don't consider it that bad right now as I am stable, I can walk, work and my labs are pretty stable).

Let me quote Jeff:

I know that a patients life is stressful and depressing enough with having to deal with being sick and helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.

Then he says this:

I don't think of any patient as sick and helpless Bill but it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves that think they are just that when they want to do something but can't because of their limitation.

And again, I will say I have NEVER thought of myself as helpless, sick yes helpless, NO. Plus I would say that the majority of our members are pretty strong and not helpless at all. Members like Goofynina, Sluff, Bajanne, Rerun, Zach, Kitkatz, Panda_9, and many, many others come to mind. So I am not sure what Jeff means when he says "it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves"  Hell I have been in a wheelchair for 6 years and I hate it, but I do not think of myself as helpless. How many "patients" does Jeff know to make such a bold statement?

Don't worry Angie, I am not upset with Jeff at all (no need to defend him), I would just like a better clarification from HIM, so lets let Jeff speak for himself shall we?

Because I feel the last thing that a sick person ever wants to feel is "Helpless" and when they do reach that level, then they have lost their will and fight. I know that is why I do all that I do, even when I am sick and feel like crap.

- Epoman

Okay.  You want my reply?  Here it goes.....

First off, I don't think that this message was called for.  Everyone else who replied to this thread didn't take any offense to what I said because no offense was intended.  Sure, maybe I could have worded my statement better but what is done, is done.  Maybe a statement of "feeling helpless" would have been better?  You have been on dialysis for quite some time Bill and do you mean to tell me that over all these years, you have not felt one day of helplessness?  I know I sure as hell have and I'm not a patient or even a legal caregiver yet.  Seriously Bill, how did you feel when you were first diagnosed with kidney disease?

Of course there have been times where I "FELT" (felt being the key word) helpless but mostly it was a feeling of anger that I had to go through these situations in the first place. When I first found out about my kidney disease I put a hole in the hospital wall with my fist. I was angry not helpless. Even when I laid in my hospital bed with 2 broken hips, sure I "felt" helpless, but I was not as you put it:

helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.

I fought and I got out of that hospital within a week, EVEN after the doctors wanted to put me in a nursing home. I left that hospital in severe pain and told the doctors no way I am going to a "home". Maybe it's the people you are around, Angie for example is always stating how sick she is and how much she has gone through, I.E. "Sick since birth", living in the past. etc, etc.

Sorry Jeff, but I took some offense to some of your comments, and one of those comment in particular:

helpless for the rest of their lives and that there is nothing that can be done to change that.

If you are a fighter there is ALWAYS something that can be done to "change that" you made it seem by this comment:

but it is a constant reminder from the patients themselves that think they are just that.

That this site is full of helpless, poor patients and all we do is sit around and feel sorry for ourselves. You also mentioned in your latest reply:

Everyone else who replied to this thread didn't take any offense to what I said because no offense was intended.

Well, if you notice Jeff, I had stayed out of this thread when you originally posted it several days ago, (Check the dates) because I figured it was just me who took it the wrong way, but after receiving 4 PM's from ACTIVE members stating that they were upset that you think of them as depressed, helpless, hopeless and "there is nothing they can do to change that" I decided to step up and speak for them. Just because people do not reply here does not mean you did not upset them. Some people just do not want to be confrontational, me personally I have no problem speaking up. So yes Jeff my reply was indeed "CALLED FOR".

So let me reiterate, yes I have had my moments of feeling helpless, however I am a fighter, I drew strength knowing that things would indeed get better. I have been depressed, and I have almost wanted to give up yet I never did. I have gone through more complications of kidney disease than most people here on this site. And I still continue and I try to be strong for my son and my wife.

I know I sure as hell have and I'm not a patient or even a legal caregiver yet

I am not yet a legal caregiver but hope to be one to Angie someday.

Jeff, how about you learn about being Angie's "HUSBAND" first and a legal caregiver second. I mean is Angie looking for a Husband or a caregiver? You make it seem like that as soon as you two are married you are her "legal" caregiver, how about you start off as her Husband first. My wife is my WIFE not my legal caregiver, and I am her Husband, not her sick helpless legal partner. It seems to me that Angie is very independent and believe it or not Jeff she may out live YOU, or she may become YOUR caregiver one day, so instead of trying to learn how to make her miserable/helpless (as you imply) life better, learn to live for now not for the future.

Sorry for speaking my mind, but that's what I do, "I call it like I see it" sometimes it gets me in trouble, but at least I am honest.

- Epoman






And to "Mallory" you are an amazing person. You are a fighter, and this quote proves it.

I work full time, usually about 50 hours a week.  I'm active in my church and in my community, I travel, I have a great life, but, I do have bad days.

You have every right to have one of those "days", hell even "weeks". I too feel hopeless sometimes, but that is a big difference than feeling helpless, which even I feel sometimes. I have not walked in about 6 years but I am still applying to be a coach for my sons basketball team again this year.

I'm not speaking for Sandman, but I understood his post to mean that he wants to make Angie's life as good and as positive as possible, in spite of her illness, however the illness makes her feel.

I understand that too, but my reply above will explain my feelings. I just feel he thinks "poor helpless Angie, I need to help her, she needs me to continue" I think he needs to think about being her husband first and caregiver second. As I stated above you never know in life, she may be HIS caregiver FIRST.

- Epoman

[sandman]

Jeff, how about you learn about being Angie's "HUSBAND" first and a legal caregiver second. I mean is Angie looking for a Husband or a caregiver? You make it seem like that as soon as you two are married you are her "legal" caregiver, how about you start off as her Husband first. My wife is my WIFE not my legal caregiver, and I am her Husband, not her sick helpless legal partner. It seems to me that Angie is very independent and believe it or not Jeff she may out live YOU, or she may become YOUR caregiver one day, so instead of trying to learn how to make her miserable/helpless (as you imply) life better, learn to live for now not for the future.

Sorry for speaking my mind, but that's what I do, "I call it like I see it" sometimes it gets me in trouble, but at least I am honest.

- Epoman

[sarcasium] Maybe I should just ask you HOW I should become a better husband to Angie since you seemingly appear to be the leading authority on marriage. [/sarcasium]  I hope you realize that I am taking offense to your publicly humiliating me when this could have been discussed privately.  I see now that you are taking offense to my statement of patients and spouses of patients feeling of helplessness but your taking it to far.  Two wrongs do not make a right.  If you have a problem with what I said then please, lets just take this in your office and talk about this privately.

[sandman]

I'm not speaking for Sandman, but I understood his post to mean that he wants to make Angie's life as good and as positive as possible, in spite of her illness, however the illness makes her feel.

You did understand exactly what I was aiming for.  Thank you.