BP

[MooseMom]

So why does Obama harp on about British?

Truly, with all due respect, this is so very inaccurate that I simply can't let it pass.  No one cares what the damn company is called.  President Obama addressed the nation tonight from the Oval Office, and I can report that not once did he say the word "British" if that makes you feel any better.  We are not as stupid as you think here in the US, and we are all very well aware of the fact that BP is a global corporation.  It's just that right now, we don't care, and frankly I am getting a bit tired of the Brits obsessing not about the destruction of the Gulf of Mexico but instead about what the name of BP "really" is.

Once the well is contained and the clean up begins in earnest, I want to hear much, much more about Halliburton's role in this catastrophe.

[MooseMom]

Sorry, that was a bit harsh of me.  I do want to make it very clear, though, that there really is no Brit-bashing going on here in the US.  This is just a very frustrating thing, and I have no doubt at all that all of England would be in an uproar had a rig exploded off the coast of the Isle of Wight or off Aberdeen (which has beautiful beaches, but chilly), and quite right, too.  Can you imagine the coast off Dorset being destroyed?  Bournemouth?  Eastbourne?  The Thames Estuary?

[Poppylicious]

... and frankly I am getting a bit tired of the Brits obsessing not about the destruction of the Gulf of Mexico but instead about what the name of BP "really" is.

Yep, just a tad harsh.  As a Brit I can promise you that I'm not obsessing about the BP name.  Like billybags, I expected this thread to be about blood pressure. 

 

[MooseMom]

Like billybags, I expected this thread to be about blood pressure. 

 

Actually, I did, too!  LOL!

[paul.karen]

Wow yup this is a mess for sure.
And it is so FAR from being over.  Would have been nice if Oboma spoke on how we are going to stop the leaking.  Either the well will naturally dry out or maybe in september we will have relief holes drilled.

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Jones bill.  This would allow countires from around the world to HELP us with stopping the spill and we could use there expertise and there ships to help us clean up the oil.  But Obama is against this well really it is the BIG Unions that are against this but Oboma is in bed with the unions.  So we have countries that want to help us.  But in short Oboma wont let them in he wont waive the Jones act which the unions are against.  So truly do we want to clean this mess up by Any means.  I for one want all the help we can get.  Oboma well he wants to play politics.
Bush waived the Jones act during Katrina.

Environmentalist!!!   well correct me if I'm wrong but they SHOVED pushed cried and demanded that oil not be drilled in shallow waters.  Where if such a duster were to happen we could have had it fixed in a timely manner.  They in return pushed oil companies out to deepwater sites. 

Gee if BP goes bankrupt and they easily could, then what happens.

Oboma waive the Jones act.  Do what is right for the people and the animals not what the UNIONS WANT YOU TO DO>

[paris]

Wow yup this is a mess for sure.
And it is so FAR from being over.  Would have been nice if Oboma spoke on how we are going to stop the leaking.  Either the well will naturally dry out or maybe in september we will have relief holes drilled.

If the oil companies and all the specialist involved don't know how to stop the leak, how could the President possibly have any idea?    We've all heard over and over again the different scenarios.  Basically, no one knows what to try next.   Such a tragic situation.   

[MooseMom]

Poppy, I forgot to ask you, if you are not obsessing about BP's name, what DO you think, as a British citizen, about this crisis?  What do your friends and family think?  Do you even discuss it, or is it off the radar of the typical bloke in the street?  Out of all of the oil companies operating in American waters, BP is FAR AND AWAY the most fined...by 97%, so there is a culture there that is broken and haphazard.  This is one reason why BP is being so reviled.  Do you think the British would react differently if this was happening off the Kent coast?

It is my understanding that 17 different nations have offered help and that ships are coming from Norway.  I suspect that one problem with accepting outside help is whether or not BP could legally be held liable for the cost.  The American taxpayers should NOT have to pay a single cent toward this clean-up, but there may be certain legal limits on what BP can legally be forced to pay.  Their lawyers are going to have to look at BP's liability insurance policies, many of which may be underwritten in the London market, which may make this more of a British problem than some people realize.  But as BP is a global concern, their insurance is probably globally written, too.

Shallow wells are pretty much tapped out, hence the drive to drill in deep waters.  I have to wonder why we are not using our natural gas supplies, which are the largest in the world.

Obama did talk about how BP plans to stop the leak.  There are relief wells being drilled this very minute, and hopefully they will be ready to go in August.  That's the plan devised by oil and gas engineers, and no one has come up with a better idea.  I don't think there is one, given the technology available.

[BigSky]

Wow yup this is a mess for sure.
And it is so FAR from being over.  Would have been nice if Oboma spoke on how we are going to stop the leaking.  Either the well will naturally dry out or maybe in september we will have relief holes drilled.

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Jones bill.  This would allow countires from around the world to HELP us with stopping the spill and we could use there expertise and there ships to help us clean up the oil.  But Obama is against this well really it is the BIG Unions that are against this but Oboma is in bed with the unions.  So we have countries that want to help us.  But in short Oboma wont let them in he wont waive the Jones act which the unions are against.  So truly do we want to clean this mess up by Any means.  I for one want all the help we can get.  Oboma well he wants to play politics.
Bush waived the Jones act during Katrina.

Environmentalist!!!   well correct me if I'm wrong but they SHOVED pushed cried and demanded that oil not be drilled in shallow waters.  Where if such a duster were to happen we could have had it fixed in a timely manner.  They in return pushed oil companies out to deepwater sites. 

Gee if BP goes bankrupt and they easily could, then what happens.

Oboma waive the Jones act.  Do what is right for the people and the animals not what the UNIONS WANT YOU TO DO>

Not sure we need help from other countries.  There is not much that can really be done.  The problem is BP not taking care of their mess and spending the dollars needed to hire out boats and other equipment to clean it up.  It seems BP is more content on trying to get government to shoulder some of the costs.

What needs done is hold BP responsible for all costs to clean up and lost wages of all industries affected until those industries are back to where they were before this mess.

If that means BP has no profits and pays no shareholders a dividend for the next 100 year so be it.

[Stoday]

Out of all of the oil companies operating in American waters, BP is FAR AND AWAY the most fined...by 97%, so there is a culture there that is broken and haphazard.

 
That's rather unfair to BP. The other oil companies can also be the most fined. It depends on the statistical circumstances. So here Total is the most heavily fined polluter. Exxon is the most frequently fined. Click for reference
All this suggests that fines are not enough to motivate the companies to operate more safely. It seems to me that the companies should be more tightly regulated and management who circumvent safety controls should be prosecuted.

BP has gone further than any other company following a disaster by readily placing $20bn in escrow. Where is that money being taken from? Why, everyone who is building up a pension pot or has stock market based savings. American as well as British. BP is so big that it has to be included to a greater or lesser extent in every general portfolio.

Moosemom asks what the typical bloke in the street thinks.  Probably this is reflected in newspaper coverage. I buy and read two newspapers daily, the Times and the Mail. In the past week, both have covered the oil disaster with full page spreads. They also gave more or less equal coverage to the court case following the disaster at Bhopal by Dow's subsidiary, Union Carbide.

Finally, the suggestion that "BP has no profits and pays no shareholders a dividend for the next 100 year so be it" is not helpful. With no profits, the company would become bankrupt and would not be able to pay for all the damage it's done.

[MooseMom]

Stoday, the reference you quoted referred to fines issued in the state of Texas only.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=12199

Where will the $20b come from?  A lot of it will come from insurance.  If Transocean and/or Halliburton are implicated and their involvement in this disaster can be proven, BP's insurers will come after their insurers.

In reading the online editions of UK papers, like the Mail, most of the related stories seem to be more about pensions and some imagined anti-British rhetoric.  I am looking right at this very moment at the top story of the online edition of the Daily Mail, and it says, and I quote, "Obama bullies BP into STG13.5 billion fund for oil spill victims...but British pensioners will pick up the bill."  The article goes on to explain that therefore, BP will be "forced" into suspending share payments until at least next year.  I would like to think that BP made the conscious choice to use that money to fix what they have broken and will pay dividends when it is morally appropriate to do so.  I seem to be correct in suspecting that the average bloke on the street is concerned only about BRITISH pensioners and about Obama the Bully.

[BigSky]

[
BP has gone further than any other company following a disaster by readily placing $20bn in escrow. Where is that money being taken from? Why, everyone who is building up a pension pot or has stock market based savings. American as well as British. BP is so big that it has to be included to a greater or lesser extent in every general portfolio.


Finally, the suggestion that "BP has no profits and pays no shareholders a dividend for the next 100 year so be it" is not helpful. With no profits, the company would become bankrupt and would not be able to pay for all the damage it's done.

People's pensions benefited from the good times, they can suffer with the bad times.

Also not letting BP post profits would not cause it to become bankrupt.  It means that all profits and dividends go first to pay for cleanup, when those costs are paid for, then they can return to posting profits and paying dividends.  In short they are non profit until they paid for the damage they have caused.

The fact that anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 million gallons of oil are leaking into the gulf everyday since April 20 and it has not been stopped is a bunch of crap.

[paul.karen]

Bigsky you say your not sure we need help from other countries..
You say there is not much that can really be done?
I am sure you realize that the oil we see today is less then 1/10th if not less then that of which has spilled so far.  We dont have the resources nor the knowledge of some of the countries that offered to help us.
We need lots more skimmers, booms and siphoning  ships to operate them then we have.
Why would we turn down anyones help.  This is a disaster like no other.  The oil that isnt skimmed or put on the shore is still oil in the water.  Even if it settles we need to clean it up.  So it is best to have as many ships as we can to catch it while it is on top of the water.  Also it would be prudent to catch as much as we can before it starts heading around Florida and up the East coast.

[MooseMom]

General Honore was on CNN yesterday outlining a plan to have the military dispatched to assist with the cleanup efforts, that separate batallions could be sent tp specific parts of the Gulf.  This is an interesting idea, addressing paul.karen's view that more needs to be done using all resources possible.  But my question is who would foot the bill for dispatching the US Military?  Again, I don't believe that American taxpayers should have to foot the bill for any part of the clean up, and I am not sure that BP would have to pay for the costs accrued to the use of the American military.  I'm really not sure that any private corporation could be legally held liable for costs incurred for the deployment of the Army and/or Navy.  What do you all think?

I do think, though that we do have the knowledge found in other countries, but the sad truth is that no oil company has the knowledge or the technology to solve this problem right now.  I suspect that while BP does not have the greatest safety record in the world (it's rather appalling, actually), we are gradually coming to understand that this is an industry-wide problem.  No oil company has come forward and has claimed that they could have done better with better people and better equipment.  That's the scary part.

[BigSky]

Bigsky you say your not sure we need help from other countries..
You say there is not much that can really be done?
I am sure you realize that the oil we see today is less then 1/10th if not less then that of which has spilled so far.  We dont have the resources nor the knowledge of some of the countries that offered to help us.
We need lots more skimmers, booms and siphoning  ships to operate them then we have.
Why would we turn down anyones help.  This is a disaster like no other.  The oil that isnt skimmed or put on the shore is still oil in the water.  Even if it settles we need to clean it up.  So it is best to have as many ships as we can to catch it while it is on top of the water.  Also it would be prudent to catch as much as we can before it starts heading around Florida and up the East coast.

Yes but the problem is not that there are not enough skimmers or booms available for use, the problem is BP is not paying to have those available resources used.

IMO BP is being a tightwad with paying for the damage and cleaning it up because they are waiting for the US government to step in and shoulder the costs.

The US government is already spending taxpayer resources on this problem and they need to bill BP for those costs plus 20%.


This bs of corporations doing what they want and shifting the costs to the taxpayers needs to end. If it bankrupts corporations so they have no profit for decades so be it.

Even to date Exxon has still not paid for the entire damage they have done with the Exxon Valdez and they rake in hundreds of billions in profits since then.

[Stoday]

In reading the online editions of UK papers, like the Mail, most of the related stories seem to be more about pensions and some imagined anti-British rhetoric.  I am looking right at this very moment at the top story of the online edition of the Daily Mail, and it says, and I quote, "Obama bullies BP into STG13.5 billion fund for oil spill victims...but British pensioners will pick up the bill."  The article goes on to explain that therefore, BP will be "forced" into suspending share payments until at least next year.  I would like to think that BP made the conscious choice to use that money to fix what they have broken and will pay dividends when it is morally appropriate to do so.  I seem to be correct in suspecting that the average bloke on the street is concerned only about BRITISH pensioners and about Obama the Bully.

Ha! Ha! That's the reason I read two newspapers every day.

But The Mail is doing just the same as Obama. The Mail is playing to its readership; Obama to his electorate.

[MooseMom]

BP made a business decision.  They decided to put aside this money now instead of spending millions in attorney's fees down the line.  Whether or not you agree with Obama's politics or not is irrelevant; the escrow account to be established by BP is not "playing" to any electorate.  I would have thought that everyone would be grateful for this sign of some modicum of corporate responsibility.

[BigSky]

http://www.breitbart.tv/lots-of-sharks-lots-of-oil-seen-off-alabama-coast/

[paul.karen]

have you heard of

Ixtoc?
It was a 2 mile deepwater well that blew-up almost identically as the deep water horizon.  In the gulf of Mexico back in 1979.  It spewed oil for 293 days.

Just google 1979 oil spill.

To bad we dont learn from past experiences.

[MooseMom]

Question:  Is BP "too big to fail"?

[Stoday]

Dunno about BP but the performances of BP's CEO and Chairman are abysmal. They both ought to fail.

[paul.karen]

Yes they are to big to fail.

So if they start to Oboma will surely bail them out.  I mean he already bought a car company with our money why not buy an oil company as well.

PS.  Our presidents is pretty abysmal as well.  he plays more golf then tiger woods does..
During two wars, a poor economy and lets not forget the small leak in the gulf.

[Jie]

Hi your guys seem to know well about BP. Is anyone here longing or shorting BP?

[natnnnat]

What happens when BP spills coffee?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM

[cariad]

 

[Stoday]

Found this, which I think some here may find exciting.

Click for Doomsday