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Author Topic: What's the deal with Astralagus and Angelica?  (Read 10670 times)
jreeve
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« on: January 18, 2010, 05:28:09 PM »

Hello everyone,
I figured someone already knows why western medicine hasn't embraced this Chines therapy of using both Astralagus and Angelica in conjunction with each other in kidney therapy. I read a study on their effect on kidneys and it looks impressive. Just wondered if it has been discussed somewhere here.
I welcome your comments, replies, re-directions, etc.
Thanks,
Julie
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2010, 05:59:50 PM »

I found this at Sloan-Kettering -
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69128.cfm
it sounds dubious, especially for transplant patients.
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Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
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She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 12:05:42 AM »

Hi jreeve

As someone whose integrated aspects of TCM(herbs and meditation) into my life and benefited from it. I'd say it is something that Western doctors should be seriously exploring.

Though I've stayed away from Astralagus since I view it as a short term power booster and use medicinal mushrooms(cordyceps, ganoderma, poria to name a few) instead.  I can say that they've helped me quite a bit in terms of giving me energy during my first year on dialysis so I could lift weights and do yard work despite having lousy KT/V readings( like .60). And now with better KT/V readings (1.60) things have only improved for me to the point I feel at times like my old self.

Be warned it's no cure, not by a long shot, but at least in my case it made a definite quality of life improvement.

Hope this helps.

Walter
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totosidney
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 04:21:32 PM »

Medical research always involves a good, credible story. But less than 1 in 1000 of these good credible stories pan out. Sure try it on yourself but with a doctor's help. Certainly not alone! And beware of excess faith or belief; that is not science at all.
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walterc
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 11:12:31 PM »

I'm a human being, faith and hope go along with that.

As a dialysis patient you are alone except for family and friends. You get nephrologists who don't care and clinics who see you as a revenue generator. Heck I'm lucky to get my KT/V results every three months and a visit from the Nutritionist every 2, sometimes it's every 3.

But that's Davita for you.  :stressed;

As for the herbs and fungi in question there's been credible research done on humans  and the results are positive.  Go to PubMed and read up on them, it's there and quite technical in nature.

As for me they work well and have for the last 3 years and that's good enough.

Walter.

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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 01:39:20 AM »

Should have read this thread more carefully, I've just finished my 4th can of asparagus in three days.
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 12:37:33 PM »

Should have read this thread more carefully, I've just finished my 4th can of asparagus in three days.

 :rofl;
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Good health is just the slowest possible rate at which you can die.

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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 02:28:59 AM »

i have worked extensively with licensed oriental medicine doctors here in seattle. i took the dang herbs (i say dang because in their best form you have to take them in a highly potent/stinky tea) for over a year after my initial diagnosis and before D. I do believe it improved my labs and slowed the progression of ESRD. Chinese herbal mediicine and acupuncture is thousands of years old.  All practitioners who prescribe these herbs have to pass an extensive state administered test. They know way more about the herbs than a western doctor ever will.

It is WAAAAAY safer than western medicine. Just ask my 80 year old friend who went for an angiogram and ended up in ICU with a severe heart attack. or the thousands of americans who go to their doctor and end up dead from side effects from their prescription medication (that is a statistical fact - more like to die this way that in a car accident).

i dont however reccomend you go to the local health food supplement shop and dose yourself - go to a trained licensed oriental medicine doctor. if you live in a large city and are lucky to have a school that trains such practitioners the cost is nominal - i get treatments for 25 bucks us. I go twice a month just for tune ups - helps with better energy, sleep, digestion, reduce hypertension.

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Diagnosised FSGS via biopsy 11/2006
Started Dialysis 5/2009
hemo-dialysis except 9.09-6.10 = peritoneal then back to hemo
currently in center hemo 3x per week
Evaluation for transplant July 2010
Almost received transplant 8.13
repeated calls and admissions for transplant since then but no kidney yet
3.1.14 got ideal kidney and having exceptional recovery - creatine went from 8.5 to 1.1 in less than 2 weeks.
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 02:45:34 AM »

This conversation about western medicine versus chinese (or any other country) reminded me of this documentary I watched called "Pregnant in America" Where they were showing how more women and babies die in the US, having children in hospitals then countries that have midwives and births at home. It was interesting to watch and reminded me that the US doesn't have everything figured out and medicince could be doing somethings better and giving patients more options....

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Born with autosomal recessive polycystic kidney disease
1995 - AV Fistula placed
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10 transplant years = spleenectomy, gall bladder removed, liver biopsy, bone marrow aspiration.
July 27, 2010 Started dialysis for the first time ever.
June 21, 2011 2nd kidney nonrelated living donor
September 2013 Liver Cancer tumor.
October 2013 Ablation of liver tumor.
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How about another decade of solid health?
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2011, 03:46:13 PM »

Science alone never cured me before , from esrf or failing transplant so why shouldn't herbal or Chinese medicine be worth a try ... I've always wondered whether acupuncture might stimulate the new kidney into working better sort of jiggle more life into it  :)
I've got to the stage where I might try anything (once) ...
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10 years of half a life
3 years HD 1st transplant Feb 08 failed after 3 months
Back to HD 2nd transplant Dec 10 failed after 11 months
Difficult times with a femoral line and catching MSSA (Thank you Plymouth Hospital)
Back on HD (not easy to do that third time around)
Fighting hard (two years on) to do home HD ... watch this space!
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The power of optimism over common sense :)
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2011, 03:57:49 PM »

I feel very fortunate that my Western trained GP has taken a year off from her practice to study Eastern medicine, including acupuncture and herbal remedies. I'm looking forward to the end of that year when we can see her again!

 :thumbup;
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 04:03:30 PM »

I'd like to give acupuncture a try but I don't know what my English conventional neph doc would think ???
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10 years of half a life
3 years HD 1st transplant Feb 08 failed after 3 months
Back to HD 2nd transplant Dec 10 failed after 11 months
Difficult times with a femoral line and catching MSSA (Thank you Plymouth Hospital)
Back on HD (not easy to do that third time around)
Fighting hard (two years on) to do home HD ... watch this space!
Oh and I am am getting married 1/08/15 to my wonderful partner Drew!!!
The power of optimism over common sense :)
Whamo
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2013, 11:57:06 AM »

American doctors want to see the data.  Unfortunately, pharma doesn't fund studies of products they can't milk for money.  So there is little research done, and effective therapies get ignored.
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Athena
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 05:51:20 AM »

This was a good thread and I'm sorry no one has posted on this subject since. I am going to be seeing a renal pharmacologist soon and will inquire about astragalus and angelica. As well as any other beneficial chinese herbs that may have been studied.

My Nephs can only guarantee kidney death/dialysis in the future so there is no harm in trying to find what else may work. I don't believe chinese herbal medicine can offer a cure, but progression at a very slow snails pace would feel pretty miraculous to me.
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 05:28:29 AM »

I found this article about the gut and CKD very interesting and hopefully usefull for all CKD patients
 2015 June Cinical Kidney Journal
Oxford University Press
Gut microbiota and inflammation in chronic kidney disease patients
Denise Mafra and Denis Fouque

Additional article information

Abstract
Inflammation is a multifactorial phenotype that in chronic kidney disease is associated with adverse patient outcomes. Recently, alterations in gut microbiota composition and intestinal barrier have been associated with inflammation and oxidative stress in CKD patients. Vanholder and Glorieux recently critically reviewed [Clin Kidney J (2015) 8 (2): 168-179] the current understanding of the role of gut microbiota in the production of uraemic toxins and the therapeutic implications. Where do we stand now? The basic mechanisms of the gut-kidney crosstalk must still be clarified. In addition, the efficacy and safety of therapeutic strategies to modulate the gut microbiota in order to decrease uraemic toxin production and inflammation in chronic kidney disease should be evaluated. Finally, an impact of such strategies on hard outcomes should be demonstrated before incorporation into routine clinical practice.

Keywords: chronic kidney disease, gut microbiota, inflammation
Inflammation is a multifactorial phenotype during chronic kidney disease (CKD). Many factors such as decreased clearance of proinflammatory cytokines, oxidative stress, metabolic acidosis, infections, dialysis access problems and obesity contribute to inflammation [1]. More recently, alterations in gut microbiota composition and intestinal barrier have been shown to be associated with inflammation and oxidative stress in CKD patients [1].

The gut microbiota plays an important role in regulating many aspects of immunity, protecting the host against pathogenic microbes and producing vitamins and other essential nutrients. The density of bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract is ∼1013–1014 cells/g of faecal matter, and the colon possesses 70% of the total GI tract bacteria [1, 2]. Firmicutes, Bacteroidetes, Actinobacteria, Proteobacteria and Verrucomicrobia are the five bacterial phyla present in the human gut and two of these, Bacteroidetes (Bacteroides, Prevotella and Xylanibacter) and Firmicutes (Ruminococcus, Clostridium, Lactobacillus, Eubacterium, Faecalibacterium and Roseburia) dominate the flora [3]. The gene content of the total DNA of this bacterial mass is greater than 4 million genes, whereas our genome is only composed by 23 000 genes. The cell number of this internal organism is 100 times greater than the total cell number of the human body and it has recently been shown that richness of this gut flora is associated with better metabolic profile in human [2].

Few studies have documented the composition of gut microbiota during CKD [4–8], and to date, there is not enough published data to confirm if CKD patients present an altered gut microbiota composition. In 1996, Hida et al., using traditional plating methods for the analysis of faecal samples did not find significant differences in the total number of colic bacteria in haemodialysis (HD) patients versus healthy individuals. In addition, in HD patients, these authors found an increased number of intestinal aerobic bacteria (Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae and Enterococcus) and intestinal anaerobic Clostridium perfringens as well as a decreased number of intestinal anaerobic bacteria (Bifidobacterium species) [4]. Wang et al. [5] were the first to analyse the gut microbiota by real-time PCR and found that Bifidobacterium species, B. catenulatum, B. longum, B. bifidum, Lactobacillus plantarum and Lactobacillus paracasei were detected at lower rates in peritoneal dialysis patients when compared with healthy individuals. Vaziri et al. [6], using microarray analysis, observed significant differences in the abundance of 190 microbial operational taxonomic units (OTU) between healthy individuals and haemodialysis patients, who presented an increased abundance of Enterobacteriaceae, particularly the OTUs containing certain clusters of E. coli sequences. A recent study supported the hypothesis that CKD patients may present an expansion of bacterial families possessing urease, uricase, and indole- and p-cresol-forming enzymes and a reduction of bacterial families possessing butyrate-forming enzymes, which contribute to the uraemic toxicity and systemic inflammation in these patients [7].

A recent study from our group showed that the average number of bands evaluated by denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE) was not different between healthy individuals and non-dialysis CKD patients. However, the sequencing of PCR products from representative bands showed Listeria monocytogenes and Flavobacteriaceae bacterium in patients, and uncultured Lachnospiraceae bacterium and Butyrivibrio crossotus in healthy individuals [8]. More research is needed to evaluate the gut microbiota profile in CKD patients and, with the advent of high-throughput sequencing techniques like pyrosequencing, a technology that provides rapid, short-read sequencing of bases, studies will be able to better identify the bacterial phylotypes of these patients.

There are a limited number of studies on the effects of gut microbiota composition on inflammation during CKD. Recently, Shi et al. [9] showed that bacteria detected in the blood were also distributed in the gut of CKD patients and the bacterial DNA concentration was positively correlated with plasma levels of C-reactive protein and interleukin-6. Studies have been more focused on the effects of uraemic toxin production by gut microbiota and its impact on inflammation [10]. In fact, a high urea load can be delivered to the intestine from the plasma of uraemic patients. Then, urease, expressed by some gut bacteria species, may promote urea hydrolysis leading to the formation of large amounts of ammonia further converted to ammonium hydroxide. Both ammonia and ammonium hydroxide can alter the intestinal epithelial tight junctions and promote the entrance of lipopolysaccharides (LPS) and uraemic toxins into systemic circulation [6].

Therefore the imbalance in gut microbiota associated with alterations in colonic epithelium contributes to the accumulation of gut-derived uraemic toxins. Toxic gases, indoxyl sulphate, p-cresyl sulphate, amines, ammonia and trimethylamine n-oxide (TMAO) as well as precursors for lipopolysaccharides (LPS) may be absorbed into the bloodstream and be responsible for systemic inflammation [1, 3]. These compounds are cytotoxic and will induce cardiovascular and immune alterations. Indeed, several studies have shown that these toxins are reliable markers of cardiovascular disease and mortality in CKD patients [11, 12]. One of the mechanism by which uraemic by-products may induce toxicity has been recently clarified. These toxins stimulate the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) through a pathway that likely involves NADPH oxidase (membrane-bound enzyme complex that generate superoxides). This ROS production triggers the mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK)/NF-κB (nuclear factor κB) pathway that results in the production of proinflammatory cytokines, chemokines and adhesion molecules [13, 14]. Furthermore, LPS is detected by toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4) on endothelial cells and monocytes/macrophages, leading to the activation of NF-κB and AP-1 (activator protein-1) [15].

Vanholder and Glorieux recently described the role of gut microbiota in the production of uraemic toxins and the subsequent modification of intestinal physiology in CKD patients. They discussed the therapeutic options that could help modify the negative effects (including inflammation) provoked by this gut microbiota imbalance [10]. According to these authors, studies in CKD patients using these therapeutic strategies are scarce, and mostly not randomized, or if randomized, results are often inconsistent. In addition, no study has evaluated the effects of interventions on gut microbiota profile.

A recent review hypothesized that a restriction in some amino acids through a low-protein diet could be an interesting strategy to reduce uraemic toxins in CKD patients on a conservative treatment [16]. The probiotic use may be effective to minimize inflammation and oxidative stress in CKD patients [1, 3]. Ranganathan et al. [17] after a probiotic supplementation in non-dialysed CKD patients, observed an improvement in quality of life and a reduction in serum uric acid and creatinine levels. In contrast, Hyun et al. [18] showed that there was no significant effect of probiotics on the reduction of uraemic toxins in paediatric dialysis patients.

The effectiveness of the use of probiotics in the treatment of inflammation in CKD patients has not been extensively examined. Recently, Wang et al. [19] reported a reduction on serum levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines in peritoneal dialysis patients after 6 months of probiotic supplementation. However, several confounding factors and errors in probiotics studies can hide their deleterious effects [20].

Studies with prebiotics are scarce. Meijers et al. [21] observed that a 4-week prebiotic oligofructose-inulin supplementation significantly reduced p-cresyl sulphate levels in haemodialysis patients. Recently, Vaziri et al. [22] showed that a high resistant starch diet as prebiotic source retards CKD progression and attenuates oxidative stress and inflammation in CKD rats.

Where do we stand now? The basic mechanism of the gut-kidney crosstalk must be first clarified. Then, we need more studies to evaluate the possible therapeutic strategies able to modulate the gut microbiota and reduce uraemic toxins, as well as the efficacy to alleviate the inflammation process in CKD patients. This promising field of research will certainly lead to the discovery of new therapeutic strategies for regulating the gut microbiota and reducing inflammation in CKD patients.

Conflict of interest statement
None declared.

(See related article by Vanholder and Glorieux. The intestine and the kidneys: a bad marriage can be hazardous. Clin Kidney J (2015) 8: 168–179.)

Acknowledgements
We wish to thank Coordenação de Aperfeiçoamento de Pessoal de Nível Superior (CAPES) and le Comité Français d'Evaluation de la Coopération Universitaire avec le Brésil (COFECUB).

Article information
Clin Kidney J. 2015 Jun; 8(3): 332–334.
Published online 2015 May 6. doi:  10.1093/ckj/sfv026
PMCID: PMC4440473
Denise Mafra1 and Denis Fouque2
1Fluminense Federal University (UFF), Graduate Program in Medical Sciences, Niterói-RJ, Brazil
2Renal Unit, Centre Hospitalier Lyon Sud, Carmen, CENS, Université de Lyon, Lyon, F-69622, France
Correspondence to: Denis Fouque; E-mail: rf.noyl-uhc@euquof.sined
Received 2015 Mar 28; Accepted 2015 Apr 8.
Copyright © The Author 2015. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of ERA-EDTA.
This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/), which permits non-commercial re-use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited. For commercial re-use, please contact journals.permissions@oup.com
See "The intestine and the kidneys: a bad marriage can be hazardous" on page 168.
Articles from Clinical Kidney Journal are provided here courtesy of Oxford University Press
References
1. Mafra D, Lobo JC, Barros AF, et al. Role of altered intestinal microbiota in systemic inflammation and cardiovascular disease in chronic kidney disease. Future Microbiol 2014; 9: 399–410 [PubMed]
2. Le Chatelier E, Nielsen T, Qin J, et al. Richness of human gut microbiome correlates with metabolic markers. Nature 2013; 500: 540–549 [PubMed]
3. Vaziri ND. CKD impairs barrier function and alters microbial flora of the intestine: a major link to inflammation and uremic toxicity. Curr Opin Nephrol Hypertens 2012; 21: 587–592 [PMC free article] [PubMed]
4. Hida M, Aiba Y, Sawamura S, et al. Inhibition of the accumulation of uremic toxins in the blood and their precursors in the feces after oral administration of Lebenin, a lactic acid bacteria preparation, to uremic patients undergoing hemodialysis. Nephron 1996; 74: 349–355 [PubMed]
5. Wang IK, Lai HC, Yu CJ, et al. Real-time PCR analysis of the intestinal microbiotas in peritoneal dialysis patients. Appl Environ Microbiol 2012; 78: 1107–1112 [PMC free article] [PubMed]
6. Vaziri ND, Wong J, Pahl M, et al. Chronic kidney disease alters intestinal microbial flora . Kidney Int 2013; 83: 308–315 [PubMed]
7. Wong J, Piceno YM, DeSantis TZ, et al. Expansion of urease and uricase-containing, indole- and p-cresol-forming and contraction of short-chain fatty acid-producing intestinal microbiota in ESRD. Am J Nephrol 2014; 39: 230–237 [PMC free article] [PubMed]
8. Barros AF, Borges NA, Ferreira DC, et al. Is there interaction between gut microbial profile and cardiovascular risk in chronic kidney disease patients? Future Microbiol 2015; 10: 517–526 [PubMed]
9. Shi K, Wang F, Jiang H, et al. Gut bacterial translocation may aggravate microinflammation in hemodialysis patients. Dig Dis Sci 2014; 59: 2109–2117 [PubMed]
10. Vanholder R, Glorieux G. The intestine and the kidneys: a bad marriage can be hazardous. Clin Kidney J 2015; 8: 168–179 [PMC free article] [PubMed]
11. Liabeuf S, Barreto DV, Barreto FC, et al. European uraemic toxin work group (EUTox): free p-cresylsulphate is a predictor of mortality in patients at different stages of chronic kidney disease. Nephrol Dial Transplant 2010; 25: 1183–1191 [PubMed]
12. Lin CJ, Liu HL, Pan CF, et al. Indoxyl sulfate predicts cardiovascular disease and renal function deterioration in advanced chronic kidney disease. Arch Med Res 2012; 43: 451–456 [PubMed]
13. Niwa T, Shimizu H. Indoxyl sulfate induces nephrovascular senescence. J Ren Nutr 2012; 22: 102–106 [PubMed]
14. Soulage CO, Koppe L, Fouque D. Protein-bound uremic toxins … new targets to prevent insulin resistance and dysmetabolism in patients with chronic kidney disease. J Ren Nutr 2013; 13: 128–133 [PubMed]
15. Muccioli GG, Naslain D, Bäckhed F, et al. The endocannabinoid system links gut microbiota to adipogenesis. Mol Syst Biol 2010; 6: 392. [PMC free article] [PubMed]
16. Mafra D, Barros AF, Fouque D. Dietary protein metabolism by gut microbiota and its consequences for chronic kidney disease patients. Future Microbiol 2013; 8: 1317–1323 [PubMed]
17. Ranganathan N, Ranganathan P, Friedman EA, et al. Pilot study of probiotic dietary supplementation for promoting healthy kidney function in patients with chronic kidney disease. Adv Ther 2010; 27: 634–647 [PubMed]
18. Hyun HS, Paik KH, Cho HY. p-Cresyl sulfate and indoxyl sulfate in pediatric patients on chronic dialysis. Korean J Pediatr 2013; 56: 159–164 [PMC free article] [PubMed]
19. Wang IK, Wu YY, Yang YF, et al. The effect of probiotics on serum levels of cytokine and endotoxin in peritoneal dialysis patients: a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Benef Microbes 2015; 21: 1–8 [PubMed]
20. Hempel S, Newberry S, Ruelaz A, et al. Safety of probiotics used to reduce risk and prevent or treat disease. Evid Rep Technol Assess (Full Rep) 2011; 200: 1–645 [PubMed]
21. Meijers BK, De Preter V, Verbeke K, et al. p-Cresyl sulfate serum concentrations in haemodialysis patients are reduced by the prebiotic oligofructose-enriched inulin. Nephrol Dial Transplant 2010; 25: 219–224 [PubMed]
22. Vaziri ND, Liu SM, Lau WL, et al. High amylose resistant starch diet ameliorates oxidative stress, inflammation, and progression of chronic kidney disease. PLoS One 2014; 9: e114881. [PMC free article] [PubMed]
 
 
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
2020 start Gambro AK96

       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
talker
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 08:28:39 AM »

This was a good thread and I'm sorry no one has posted on this subject since. I am going to be seeing a renal pharmacologist soon and will inquire about astragalus and angelica. As well as any other beneficial chinese herbs that may have been studied.

My Nephs can only guarantee kidney death/dialysis in the future so there is no harm in trying to find what else may work. I don't believe chinese herbal medicine can offer a cure, but progression at a very slow snails pace would feel pretty miraculous to me.
--------------------------------------------------
Hi Athena,
Did you get to see the renal pharmacologist? If so, and you are willing, what was the outcome?
Herbology 'singles and combining' is so vast that for me it is a slow process of experiencing.
Have from a long time back, gravitated to a different way at viewing and doing things that will / could / have, assisted this ancient body,
to endure life's health conundrum.
Yes, herbs can work alone for a specific health problem.
Yet, decades past, started looking at my body as an admixture of various parts and energies as being highly dependent upon each other. (Did start blogging about the decades old findings)

We can have similar ailments, yet it will be found that different approaches are required to get any type of healing to commence.
Somewhat a blend between Palliative care and Curative treatment.

Have found that one can passively settle for (1)'things as they happen', or (2)one can scream, yell, plead, pray, experiment and 'do'
what is felt as needing doing.

Much of what I've touched upon is controversial and doing the many things that I'm doing, is frowned upon. So what to do?
As you pointed out 'My Nephs can only guarantee kidney death/dialysis in the future so there is no harm in trying to find what else may work.'.

Indeed, is where I'm at, even with (to me) this temporary dialysis event.

------------------------------------------

What you eat, drink and think, affect the whole body.

http://www.thetalker.org/archives/436/22-which-hat-are-you-wearing-today-health-wise/

------------------------------

As mentioned in another post, I can fine tune a mix by adding, taking away, increasing or reducing a quantity of any used herb to achieve a desired end product

http://www.thetalker.org/archives/1515/talker-on-more-herbal-mix-tonic/

----------------------------
The overall action of this blend results in every gland, nerve, muscle, vein, artery, organ and bone getting fed the vital nutrients for rejuvenation and regeneration to take place.

Of course if you do try any of this, you do so at your own risk, nor am I making any claims about what these herbs do for anyone else. This formulation, by the way is not an original by me, it originates long before my time.

http://www.thetalker.org/archives/307/38-talker-on-whole-body-herb-tonic/
-----------------------------
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Be Well

"Wabi-sabi nurtures the authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect."

Don't ever give up hope, expect a miracle, pray as if you were going to die the next moment in time, but live life as if you were going to live forever."

A wise man once said, "Yesterday's the past, tomorrow's the future, but today is a gift. That's why it's called the present."
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