Illegal Aliens Dialysis Transplant Poll

[livecam]

Illegal aliens like it or not are being dialyzed and transplanted at taxpayer expense all over our country.  We all know what costs are involved in dialysis, transplantation, followup, and medications.  When an illegal alien is placed on a transplant waiting list the illegal can and often will get that transplant before an American citizen.  Is it right that this be allowed to continue?  What safeguards should be put in place to protect American taxpayers and organ transplant patients from the costs associated with and increased wait times imposed by illegal aliens.  Should a national ID system be implemented to separate citizens and noncitizens from expensive lifesaving treatment?  Should illegals ever receive maintenance dialysis in the U.S.?  Should any illegal alien here ever be transplanted?  When are we going to kick them all out?






EDITED: Thread MERGED with this Poll/Thread. - Epoman. Admin/Owner

[livecam]

The cost of illegal aliens to dialysis and transplant patients can be measured in more ways than just the dollars.  When an illegal is transplanted an American is usuallly behind him or her in the line.  When taxpayers pay to dialyze illegals, Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance costs rise for legal Americans.  Should this be allowed to continue?

[Joe Paul]

Well, if our government is that lax, maybe its what we deserve. Someone might as well enjoy the taxes we Americans  pay, not just politicians.

[Epoman]

The cost of illegal aliens to dialysis and transplant patients can be measured in more ways than just the dollars.  When an illegal is transplanted an American is usuallly behind him or her in the line.  When taxpayers pay to dialyze illegals, Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance costs rise for legal Americans.  Should this be allowed to continue?

Hmmm, well this is going to be a good debate.  Personally I hate the fact that illegals have BETTER insurance than I do, the combination of Medicare/Medical is awesome. That will pay for everything. I remember when I was at a center when I first started dialysis my insurance would not cover Bone-Density tests BUT all the illegals or the ones on "Medical" would get the tests. Well here it is years later I am in a wheelchair because my bone loss was not monitored. I bet those illegals are still walking.  I really don't mind people coming to this country (USA) and want to become a citizen, work hard, LEARN the language and become a tax-payer. I do have a problem with people coming over here to this country and not paying taxes, and not learning the language and thinking they are entitled to the same rights as citizens. As to should they be allowed to have dialysis here? I really don't have an answer on that. As to them having transplants, I feel citizens should be given top priority.

[angieskidney]

Since I am not American I don't really have a say .. but I do like the idea that if I visited my American boyfriend and something happened that I would be taken care of even as a non-American

But damn! That sucks Epoman! Damn you should have gotten those tests if they got them! Paid for coverage should be better than free hand outs!

[Sara]

If you are not a citizen or legal resident, no I don't think you should be getting things like free medical.  I do think it should be easier/quicker to become a citizen or resident though.  I don't like the idea of saying 'no' to people in need, but if everyone were to take from the system and not give also, by paying taxes, the system would go bankrupt really quickly.

[Rerun]

I don't understand how this can happen.  When I went for my Transplant Evaluation the first thing they looked at was my insurance and if I could pay.  If my insurance would not cover transplantation I was out.  How do these illegal aliens get on the list? 

I know they get dialysis.  I don't know how that happens either. 

I guess we could contact UNOS and see what their policy is.  Who wants to volunteer to do that??

[BigSky]

The US does need to set up so some sort of identification system so that only its citizens and those that are here legally are able to have medical paid by our government. 

Anytime an illegal applies for government assistence they should be arrested and deported.  As it is any social worker or anyone else who helps illegals are criminals themselves and should be prosecuted.  They are aiding and abetting a known criminal.

Illegals cost this country far more than the government wishes to admit.

[angieskidney]

I remember when I was in the hospital in ER and there was a drunk young man who got into a fight and needed to be in the ER and had no coverage. We still took care of him dispite not having any coverage.

[Rerun]

Oh, but who will pick our peaches and apples?  BLAH, blah, blah.......

[Sara]

I wanted to add, I think emergency treatment is one thing, but routine, regular treatment is another.

[sandman]

I feel that American citizens and legal visitors in the US should be given high priority in US medical institution's and illegal visitors should be only be given emergency medical care ( enough to stabilize them ) and then sent packing for their home land.  I mean, if you can't be bothered by stopping at the border and make legal entry to the US then why should the US help you?  Seems fair enough to me.

It's bad enough where US citizens are unable to receive the medical treatment we need because of not enough insurance or whatever, but when illegal immigrants can slip by border patrols, find their way in to one of our medical institution's and receive everything they need medically, without having any way to pay, is just a slap in our faces.

[waitlisted]

I want to comment something as well... first of all I have personally went through the process to get permanent residency in US and I know many friends and colleagues, who have been stuck in that process many years when doing it according to the official way. Personally I think that the problem here in US is that this country does not run without the illegal immigrants, most of he work related to infrastructure are done by illegals. So the government does not want to "solve" this problem especially when all the politics here is sponsored by large companies needing this cheap labor.

What comes to the health care, I really don't know how it works for illegals, but when I had my first discussion with the social worker we talked about medicare. I mentioned that I am not eligible for medicare now as you need to work 10 years before reaching it, it somehow came up that the person had met with multiple illegal immigrants/newcomers to the country and they had all possible insurances.

I asked the social worker, how to do it illegally as it seems to be the faster option, but she just said she likes my way better...

I don't think this a problem exists only in US, but same issue exists in many other countries as well (developed countries having any medical care). I think that emergency care needs to be provided for anyone, but long term maintenance health care could be restricted.

Livecam, do you have some statictics behind your comment "illegal often will get transplant before legal person"?

[livecam]

Well EPO you answered your own question.  Basically you are wheelchair bound because you couldn't get the medical tests that are apparently no problem for any illegal.  We hear other stories from time to time as well like the recent separation of the conjoined twins of illegal aliens at taxpayer expense in Los Angeles.  The parents with the woman very pregnant decided to "visit" the U.S.  While here she was treated at taxpayer expense for another condition at which time it was discovered she was carrying the conjoined twins.  Of course she and her common-law husband "decided" to stay and have the babies here which made them U.S. citizens by birth.  The separation surgery cost us 2 million dollars with the cost of lifetime followup and monitoring incalculable.  How many people could be dialyzed and transplanted with the money spent instead on those kids.  I remember another case from a few years ago where Mexican parents purposely entered the country illegally with their sick child who was in need of a transplant.  If memory serves me right the transplant was performed I believe in North Carolina again at taxpayer expense.  An error was made and the child was transplanted with an organ of an incompatible blood type.  The child later died, the parents sued and were given the right to remain in the country permanently with their other children also brought in illegally.  I have other stories as well, one is personal witnessed myself from the dialysis chair.  That one comes later. 

[Rerun]

The one twin gets dialysis and will get a transplant from her Mother.  I'm sure our tax dollars will pay for that too.

[Sluff]

Take care of our own. If your here illegally, then get legal if you want the same kind of help that our Tax paying, hard working Americans receive. When every US Citizen is cured from kidney disease and cancer then we can help others. All the money that could be used to find cures for devastating diseases here in the US, are being used to treat illegals. Thats a bunch of hogwash.

Am I being selfish?  You bet I am.

[BigSky]

This country would run fine without illegals.

All illegals do is cost the US money.

Corporations use illegals to drive down the wages paid in this country.  Laws of supply and demand.  Corporations dilute the supply of workers by using illegals thus keeping wages down.

Without illegals corporations would actually have to pay what it is worth to pick apples, oranges and anything else that needs done in this country.

Another thing is that any corporation that is caught with illegals should be the one to pay directly out of their pocket all expenses to house illegals and the costs of deportation,  that is in addition to throwing their Presidents and mangers in jail for 5 years no parole.

[angieskidney]

I wanted to add, I think emergency treatment is one thing, but routine, regular treatment is another.

Ah okay! That I can agree with! You see I want the emergecy treatment to remain but yes you are right! Routine IS another thing!

I want to comment something as well... first of all I have personally went through the process to get permanent residency in US and I know many friends and colleagues, who have been stuck in that process many years when doing it according to the official way. Personally I think that the problem here in US is that this country does not run without the illegal immigrants, most of he work related to infrastructure are done by illegals. So the government does not want to "solve" this problem especially when all the politics here is sponsored by large companies needing this cheap labor.

I can believe that as the Mexicans also come to Canada and are willing to do the work and are more determined to do a good job than any Canadian or American who expect more pay for their work.

I really don't know how it works for illegals, but when I had my first discussion with the social worker we talked about medicare. I mentioned that I am not eligible for medicare now as you need to work 10 years before reaching it, it somehow came up that the person had met with multiple illegal immigrants/newcomers to the country and they had all possible insurances.

I asked the social worker, how to do it illegally as it seems to be the faster option, but she just said she likes my way better...

I don't think this a problem exists only in US, but same issue exists in many other countries as well (developed countries having any medical care). I think that emergency care needs to be provided for anyone, but long term maintenance health care could be restricted.

10 years? Holy CRAP!! I will never move to the States then

This country would run fine without illegals.

All illegals do is cost the US money.

Corporations use illegals to drive down the wages paid in this country. Laws of supply and demand. Corporations dilute the supply of workers by using illegals thus keeping wages down.

Without illegals corporations would actually have to pay what it is worth to pick apples, oranges and anything else that needs done in this country.

Another thing is that any corporation that is caught with illegals should be the one to pay directly out of their pocket all expenses to house illegals and the costs of deportation, that is in addition to throwing their Presidents and mangers in jail for 5 years no parole.

Wow! But it is true! It is the corporations that don't have unions in Canada they employ them with minimum wage and no benefits. Is that how it is in the States as well??

[BigSky]

Wow! But it is true! It is the corporations that don't have unions in Canada they employ them with minimum wage and no benefits. Is that how it is in the States as well??

In a free market it is suppose to work by supply and demand.  If there is not enough workers (short supply) then wages tend to go up to fill those positions.  If the market has too many workers(oversupply) the wages stay low because they can find just about anyone to work the job.

Time and time again corporations lie about it.  Tyson chicken is well known for this stuff.  They have submitted the same SS number for many employees and shrug it off as they didnt know.

In Time magazine it included evidence of this racket from the Tyson Foods  trial in 2003. Time printed the recorded phone conversation where the chicken plant manager arranged for up to 500 illegal aliens to come directly to work at Tyson plants after getting phony documents.



 

[meadowlandsnj]

Here's an article about that girl who had the botched organ transplant.  I remember reading somewhere about a certain percentage of organs were given to foreigners to the US and according to this it's 5%. 

Final Goodbye To Jesica Santillan

LOUISBURG, N.C., March 5, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(AP) Jesica Santillan, the Mexican teenager who died last month after a bungled heart-lung transplant, was laid to rest in a rural North Carolina cemetery Tuesday as the ethical debate over her treatment continued to swirl.

The 17-year-old girl's small white coffin was slipped into a mausoleum wall and covered with a slab of pink granite as her parents watched. On a sunny, springlike day, some 100 mourners gathered at the small graveyard east of Louisburg for the outdoor service.

Plans to bury Jesica in Mexico were abandoned because there was no guarantee her illegal immigrant parents would be allowed to return to the United States afterward.

Critics have said American citizens should have priority for transplants. But transplant groups say it is only fair to give some organs to foreigners because they also donate organs to U.S. patients.

At the funeral, Nita Mahoney, whose husband started a charitable foundation in Jesica's name, seemed to hint at the controversy over whether the girl should have been on the long list of desperate transplant candidates.

"Love has no colors to it, and it crosses all rivers and nations," Mahoney said. "That was the only thing we wanted to do, was help a child. And in Jesica's memory, we will."

In an operation Feb. 7, Jesica was mistakenly given organs of the wrong blood type. Her body rejected the organs, and a matching transplant about two weeks later came too late to save her. She died Feb. 22 at Duke University Medical Center.

Some have questioned whether the second transplant was proper and whether the organs could have saved the life of another patient. Others questioned why an illegal immigrant received such high-intensity medical care.

Ron Woodard, president of a group called N.C. Listen that favors restricting immigration, said Jesica's situation was tragic.

"But if I was a person on the waiting list," Woodard told The News & Observer of Raleigh, "I'm sure the thought would run through my mind: Why were organs given to someone who was here illegally?"

Hospital officials said they have the discretion to put foreign citizens, including illegal immigrants, on the national waiting list for transplants. And the United Network for Organ Sharing, which oversees the distribution of organs nationwide, allows up to 5 percent of recipients to be from other countries.

"Part of the rationale is that it may be hypocritical to accept donors who are not U.S. citizens, but not allow them to be transplant recipients," said Joel Newman, UNOS spokesman.

A major factor in deciding who gets a transplant is ability to pay. The federal government pays for some emergency medical services, but does not cover illegal immigrants who were unable to pay.

Jesica was unusual among illegal immigrants in that she had health insurance, provided through her mother's job at Louisburg College. Family friend Mack Mahoney said the insurance will pay for 80 percent and a foundation he created to help the Santillans could cover the rest.

Lawyers for the girl's family say they haven't decided whether to sue the hospital.

"She came as close to being an angel on earth as anyone," attorney Frank Cassiano said. "This girl was brave every day of her life. Duke needs to be aware there's nothing I'm not going to do to paint this picture."

[paris]

I live in the area and it was on tv and in the newspapers in great detail. The mother had insurance with Louisburg College.  Along with having some of the finest doctors in the US, Duke is a teaching hospital and also takes medical care of most of the indigents in the area.  N.C. has always had a large population of migrant workers working all the fields. Now we have had a huge influx of Hispanics in the area. But, most are hardworking, family people just trying to make their lives better. How many are illegal? Hard to tell. But, I never begrudged that little girl her transplant, even though I am waiting for one.  Each case must be decided on its own. Could you let a child die because he hasn't become a citizen?  Unless we are Native Americans, all our ancesters were illegal at one point in history.  That doesn't mean I am  "pro" illegals  - it just seems to be more complicated than a "yes" or "no" answer.

[sandman]

I really don't know how it works for illegals, but when I had my first discussion with the social worker we talked about medicare. I mentioned that I am not eligible for medicare now as you need to work 10 years before reaching it, it somehow came up that the person had met with multiple illegal immigrants/newcomers to the country and they had all possible insurances.

And how did you go about inquiring?  Were you a legal US citizen at the time?

[waitlisted]

Sandmansa,
I was not citizen and I am still not citizen, but resident. If I remember correctly it came up, when there were 2 people discussing with me and the other one was asking my status and was wondering if there is any requirement to be a citizen to get a transplant and then the social worker came up with the story about illegals.

Angie,

10 years? Holy CRAP!! I will never move to the States then

Don't count on this, I am not sure how this goes. Medicare web site tells:

Medicare Premiums for 2006:

Part A: (Hospital Insurance) Premium
Most people do not pay a monthly Part A premium because they or a spouse has 40 or more quarters of Medicare-covered employment.
The Part A premium is $216.00 for people having 30-39 quarters of Medicare-covered employment.
The Part A premium is $393.00 per month for people who are not otherwise eligible for premium-free hospital insurance and have less than 30 quarters of Medicare-covered employment.

Part B: (Medical Insurance) Premium

$88.50 per month.

It also says

If you (or your spouse) did not pay Medicare taxes while you worked, and you are age 65 or older and a citizen or permanent resident of the United States, you may be able to buy Part A. If you are under age 65, you can get Part A without having to pay premiums if:
You have been entitled to Social Security or Railroad Retirement Board disability benefits for 24 months. (Note: If you have Lou Gehrig's disease, your Medicare benefits begin the first month you get disability benefits.)
You are a kidney dialysis or kidney transplant patient.

So I understand this so that as ESRD patient I would get Medicare part A without premium. For part B there is always premium if I have understood it correctly.

[Panda_9]

What the hell is an illegal alien? Excuse my aussieness.

[sandman]

What the hell is an illegal alien? Excuse my aussieness.

Dictionary.com describes and illegal alien as this....

illegal alien 

1. a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization. 
2. a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, esp. a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson. Compare resident alien. 

Also called illegal immigrant.