Family: Octuplets' mother has 6 other children

[okarol]

Family: Octuplets' mother has 6 other children

By THOMAS WATKINS, Associated Press Writer Thomas Watkins, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 23 mins ago

WHITTIER, Calif. – The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week already had six children but refused the option of reducing the number of embryos she was carrying last year, her mother said.

Angela Suleman said good news for her daughter is all the babies appear healthy.

"I looked at those babies. They are so tiny and so beautiful," Suleman told The Los Angeles Times on Thursday.

Suleman's daughter gave birth to the octuplets Monday at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center but had requested that doctors keep her name confidential.

She also was counseled about the risks of her pregnancy — then in its 12th week — and about the option of aborting some fetuses when she arrived at the hospital, Dr. Harold Henry said.

Suleman said her daughter had not expected so many embryos to keep developing, but rejected selective reduction.

"What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed," Suleman told the Times. "That is a very painful thing."

Doctors had been expecting only seven babies, but an eighth was born in the Caesarean delivery.

Media knew little about the woman until a family acquaintance told CBS' "The Early Show" on Thursday that the mother is "fairly young" and lives with her parents and her six children.

Within hours, media had camped out at the family's home in Whittier, where the babies' grandfather pulled up in a minivan in the evening and briefly spoke to The Associated Press. Beside him were two children — a 7-year-old and 6-year-old — who said they were excited to have eight new siblings.

But the grandfather warned that media may have a tougher time finding the family after the babies are released from the hospital.

"We have a huge house, not here," said the man, who would only identify himself as Ed. "You are never going to know where it is."

The mother's other children are 5 and 3, and 2-year-old twins, neighbors told the Times.

The six boys and two girls are only the second octuplets born alive in the United States. The were born nine weeks premature and ranged between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces at birth.

Dr. Mandhir Gupta said seven of the babies were breathing without assistance. One was still receiving oxygen through a tube in his nose.

All babies continued to receive intravenous nutrition. They were expected to remain in the hospital for several more weeks.

It's not clear if the octuplets' mother had embryos implanted. Another option is egg stimulation through fertility drugs, which provides less control. The doctor is supposed to use blood tests and ultrasound to monitor how many egg follicles develop. If too many do, the doctor is supposed to stop the drugs.

Doctors say they are not in the business of regulating family size. But they try everything to avoid higher-order pregnancies to prevent health problems for mothers and infants.

National guidelines suggest that doctors limit the number of embryos implanted to avoid multiple births. Women are also counseled to not go through with attempting pregnancy if too many eggs have budded when they're taking fertility drugs.

Dr. James Grifo, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the NYU School of Medicine, added: "I don't think it's our job to tell them how many babies they're allowed to have. I am not a policeman for reproduction in the United States. My role is to educate patients."

___

[thegrammalady]

as exciting and unusual as this is, i think the media needs to leave these people alone. getting updates, ie, the babies are doing well etc is fine, anything else is out of line. the choices the woman made were her own and no business of anyone else period, nuf said!!!!! i'm so glad all the little ones are doing ok.

[Rerun]

Everybody loves babies and I for one would like to see them and know more about their situation.  They are missing a huge financial opportunity by going missing.  People would probably love to help this family out.  Makes me wonder about the secrecy.  Each to their own, but for once we have a good story and they won't share.

[BigSky]

One of the reports I had seen said she was a single mother, that may well be the reason for the hiding. 

[okarol]

I have 4 kids and believe me, people told me over and over that I had too many kids!

I don't get how (in the story below) she thought her "fallopian tubes were plugged up" when she just had twins who less than 2 years old when she got invitro. That's just bizarre.

Tonight's news:

Make that 14: Octuplet mom already had 6 kids

By THOMAS WATKINS and LAURAN NEERGAARD, Associated Press Writers Thomas Watkins And Lauran Neergaard, Associated Press Writers
1 hr 26 mins ago
 
WHITTIER, Calif. – How in the world does a woman with six children get a fertility doctor to help her have more — eight more?

An ethical debate erupted Friday after it was learned that the Southern California woman who gave birth to octuplets this week had six children already.

Large multiple births "are presented on TV shows as a 'Brady Bunch' moment. They're not," fumed Arthur Caplan, bioethics chairman at the University of Pennsylvania. He noted the serious and sometimes lethal complications and crushing medical costs that often come with high-multiple births.

But Dr. Jeffrey Steinberg, who has fertility clinics in Los Angeles, Las Vegas and New York, countered: "Who am I to say that six is the limit? There are people who like to have big families."

Kaiser Permanente announced the mega-delivery Monday in Bellflower, with delighted doctors saying they had initially expected seven babies and were surprised when the cesarean section yielded an eighth.

Multiple births this big are considered impossible without fertility treatment, but the doctors who delivered the babies would not say whether the 33-year-old woman had used fertility drugs or had embryos implanted in her womb.

However, the children's grandmother, Angela Suleman, told The Associated Press her daughter resorted to in vitro fertilization because "her fallopian tubes are plugged up" and she had trouble conceiving.

Doctors said the woman rejected an offer from doctors to abort some of the embryos.

More common among younger women is the use of fertility drugs that stimulate egg production; doctors are supposed to monitor budding eggs and stop the drugs if too many develop.

Some medical experts were disturbed to hear that the woman was offered fertility treatment, and troubled by the possibility that she was implanted with so many embryos.

Dr. David Adamson, former president of the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, said he was bracing for some backlash against his specialty.

In 30 years of practice, "I have never provided fertility treatment to a woman with six children," or ever heard of a similar case, said Adamson, director of Fertility Physicians of Northern California.

Women seeking fertility treatment are routinely asked to give a detailed history of prior pregnancies and births, and "it's a very realistic question to ask about someone who has six children: How does this fit into the concept of requiring fertility treatment?" Adamson said.

The woman's fertility doctor has not been identified. The hospital has not released the mother's name, citing her desire for privacy. Suleman said her daughter is not married. It was not clear who the father of the babies is. Her six other children range in age from 2 to 7.

Records show that she held a psychiatric technician's license from 1997 to 2002. It was unclear whether she is now employed.

It was only the second time in U.S. history that eight babies survived more than a few hours after birth. The six boys and two girls were said to be in remarkably good condition but were expected to remain in the hospital for several more weeks.

The mother of the octuplets lives with her parents in a modest, single-story home on a quiet cul-de-sac in Whittier, a Los Angeles suburb of about 85,000. Children's bicycles, a pink car and a wagon were scattered in the yard and driveway.

On Thursday night, the children's grandfather came to the door and angrily told reporters to leave the property.

Court records show Suleman filed for bankruptcy last March, but after she failed to make required payments and appear at a creditors' meeting, the case was dismissed. She reported liabilities of $981,371, mostly money owed on two houses she owns in Whittier.

The births were a hot topic of conversation on the Internet, with many people incredulous that a woman with six children would try to have more — and that a doctor would help her do so. Some criticized the doctor and suggested that the mother would be overwhelmed trying to raise her brood and would end up relying on public support.

Jessica Zepeda, who identified herself as a friend of the mother, said the woman and family would have enough money to raise 14 children. "She is not on welfare," Zepeda said. "She is an awesome mom, and will be able to take care of her babies."

Several doctors said it is not their role to dictate family size.

"I am not a policeman for reproduction in the United States. My role is to educate patients," said Dr. James Grifo, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the New York University School of Medicine.

But Caplan said not enough attention is paid to the well-being of the children in high-multiple births. Such babies are often premature and underdeveloped, and are almost always found to have some health problem.

Caplan said everyone has a stake in mega-multiple births because they cause insurance premiums to rise when hospitals cannot get reimbursed for the huge costs such babies incur, and because those with disabilities typically require social services.

"To say all you need is cash and the will to have more kids should not be a sufficient standard to access services," he said. "It is insufficient for adoption. It isn't sufficient to be a foster parent. Why would it be sufficient to run down to the fertility clinic to get embryos transplanted or super-ovulated?"

A few years ago, Caplan and others did a survey of U.S. fertility clinics. They found few had policies for deciding whether to help a woman get pregnant. Most clinics said they had patients meet with financial coordinators, but only 18 percent had them see a social worker or psychologist.

With in vitro fertilization, doctors frequently implant more than one embryo to improve the odds that one will take. Mothers-to-be who are found to be pregnant with several babies are given the option of aborting some of them to increase the chances the others will survive.

The U.S. fertility industry has guidelines on how many embryos doctors can implant, with the number varying by age and other factors. The guidelines call for no more than one or two for a generally healthy woman under 35, and no more than three to five, depending on the embryos' maturity, for women over 40.

If eight embryos were implanted at once, that is "well beyond our guidelines," Dr. R. Dale McClure, president of the reproductive medicine society, said in a statement.

Clinics that clearly violate guidelines can be kicked out of another group, the Society for Assisted Reproductive Technology, which in turn affects whether insurance covers their services. But the guidelines do not have the force of law.

___

[Zach]

Maybe the mother is looking for a deal to do a reality television show.

[G-Ma]

I know none of us live in her world and have no idea what she was thinking. 42 years ago we had to go through and act of congress to have fertility treatments as we had a 2 year old son, and just when we gave up hope I got pregnant.  My Dr had said now you might have anywhere up to 8...we were fine with that.  9 months later we had another beautiful son..we didn't want to have any ultrasounds and didn't want to know the sex so it was a great surprise.  Unfortunately we were not able to have more treatments so my sons are even more special.

[Wenchie58]

She has all the markings of a hoarder....yanno, those people who's homes are over run with
cats or dogs.  In her case is going to be children.  14 kids!?!? Yikes, I am the oldest of 11 and
that made for one wild time!  We can all only wish her and her family the best and hope that
the children, all 14 of them,(shudder) get what they need to become productive citizens!

[G-Ma]

Growing up I had friends that were part of 13 children and they basically raised each other.  I don't know how people do it.

[Wattle]

Growing up I had friends that were part of 13 children and they basically raised each other.  I don't know how people do it.

I know I would never want to be pregnant for that many years....... or give birth to that many children.

It reminds me of a "Monty Python" scene.  (You know the one.... "Every ........ is sacred.....")   

[Chris]

Not a fan on how the media is conducting themselves with this. hey went into birth records looking for who was on the birth certificate on who was the father.There was an interview with her mother and she was advised to kick her daughter out by some psycholist some years back so she wouldn't get pregnant anymore. he couldn't do it and now the mother says when her daughter comes home, she is moving out because she can't handle all the kids. So now her husband has to deal with all that? That's not fair and I wouldn't let my kid have the run of my house. Instead of moving out of your own home, get her a place of her own that she needs to take responcability for is my thinking. According to the news report, the woman who had the kids told a neighbor that she was paid to do this this time. Very strange story.

[paddshubby]

They had an interview with the mother on the Today show this morning.  Afterward the staff psychologist basically said, yeah, she's nuts.

[Chris]

Glad she's not my girlfriend or wife!  She does seem a little 

[twirl]

oh Chris -
8 little Chris's running around could be so adorable

I read where her fertility doc is under investigation
wonder who gave or donated the sperm
IT WAS NOT CHRIS

[Chris]

I would be in a shocking suprise if it was   

Followed by calls to the doctors who have done surgery on me.

1 of me is enough, 8 of me = money pit beyond belief.

If I ever want kids though, she better be living with me.

[okarol]

From the Los Angeles Times

Octuplets' mom names fertility clinic in Beverly Hills

By Alan Zarembo and Kimi Yoshino

9:32 AM PST, February 9, 2009

Whittier mom Nadya Suleman told NBC in an interview that aired this morning that she sought treatment at a Beverly Hills clinic for all her in vitro fertilization procedures, including the one that resulted in the birth of octuplets.

She said she went to West Coast Infertility Medical Clinic -- now named West Coast IVF Clinic -- headed by Michael M. Kamrava. He describes himself on his website as "an internationally recognized leader in the field of in vitro fertilization" who has helped pioneer "breakthrough technology that revolutionized IVF, reducing risks to both the mother and child." That procedure also helped reduce costs, according to the site.

According to statistics collected by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, his clinics performed 20 in vitro procedures in 2006 on women under 35. Of those procedures, four resulted in pregnancies and only two of those resulted in birth. One of those women delivered twins. His pregnancy rate and live birth rate are far below the national average, according to the statistics.

At the same time, the average number of embryos that he transferred per procedure -- 3.5 -- was among the highest in the country for women under 35. Fertility specialists say that a high number of embryo transfers usually reflects either a patient population with an especially poor prognosis or problems with the laboratory.

Medical guidelines established by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine recommend transferring no more than two embryos per procedure in women under 35 except in "extraordinary circumstances."

Suleman told NBC's Ann Curry that her treatment was "very appropriate." He implanted six embryos, which she had remaining from previous procedures because of her medical history, which include miscarriages and scarred fallopian tubes.

"At the time I was so focused, so fixated on wanting so many that I just kept going," Suleman said. Because the success rates are low, Suleman said, "the most I would have ever anticipated would have been twins. It wasn't twins times four."

She said implanting that many embryos, even after having six young children at home, was "nothing different" from before.

"He did nothing different," she said.

Kamrava could not be reached for comment this morning.

Since the birth, Suleman has come under fire for going ahead with all the pregnancies when she already had six children at home. She is a single mother and a graduate student who lives with her mother.

She denied getting pregnant to make a lot of money and told Curry that money is "paper." She said she is not on government assistance.

She said that with six children, she was struggling financially to support them and likely would not have been able to make it without the support of her mother, who allowed the family to stay with her in her three-bedroom Whittier home.

"I will feed them; I will do the best I possibly can," Suleman said in the interview. "In my own way, in my own faith, I do believe wholeheartedly that God will provide in his own way."

[jbeany]

The news today said she lied about the government assistance - she's getting food stamps.

I feel sorry for all the kids - she's clearly not entirely stable!

[paris]

Three of the oldest are disabled and she gets $1400 a month for them.  It is quite a mess.  Very sad situation for all the kids.

[okarol]

The thought of having 6 kids under the age of 7 - and 8 new babies - OMG I would be nuts!

[kitkatz]

Well from what I have seen of her, she is nuts!

[Chris]

A. Jolie wannabe?
Fish lips, nose, hair, now kids up the whazoo (sort of now  ) = 
I caught a glimpse on the Nightly News and that was enough for me.

[TynyWonder]

Did anyone see the interview on Dateline?  I too, thought she was a bit crazy for wanting to have MORE children but after seeing the interview, I think she is definitely not all there and yes, it is really a sad situation for all of the children involved.   

[Romona]

She started a website for people to donate money.

I am puzzled by her way of thinking. She is odd.

[okarol]

Octuplets fertility doctor at center of another multi-pregnancy
1:22 PM, February 12, 2009

Kamrava_2  The Beverly Hills doctor who helped Nadya Suleman conceive octuplets also provided fertility treatment to a 49-year-old woman who is pregnant with quadruplets and is hospitalized at County-USC Medical Center.

Several sources told The Times that Dr.  Michael Kamrava transferred at least seven embryos made from younger donor eggs.

Fertility experts said that transferring that many embryos raises the odds of a multiple birth, which threatens the health of the mother and babies.

The California Medical Board is already investigating the octuplets case. In fertility medicine, any pregnancy greater than twins is considered a failure because of the danger it poses to the mother and the babies.

Quadruplet births are rare, with an average of 14 sets born in California each year, according to state records.

“I do think it is concerning, and dangerous, especially to the mother," said one doctor with knowledge of the case. "She is close to 50. When women get to be that age, our fear is the cardiovascular complications, such as stroke or heart attack. That’s how serious this is.”

The woman in the latest case arrived recently at Good Samaritan Hospital for treatment but was transferred last week to County-USC because she lacks insurance, the sources said. Doctors placed her on bed rest until the birth of the babies, which, they added, could be two or three months from now.

Reached by telephone, the woman, who is about five months pregnant, denied that Kamrava was her doctor. She said her doctors urged her not to talk to the media because she is already dealing with a high-risk pregnancy and doesn't need more stress.

"Please respect my privacy," she said.

(The Times has confirmed the information through several independent sources, who spoke on the condition that they not be named.)

The woman has three grown children from a previous marriage but wanted another child with her second husband, who is in his early 30s and doesn’t have any children. She works as an apartment manager; her husband is a contractor.

Kamrava could not be reached for comment and has declined previous interview requests. A woman who answered the phone at his West Coast IVF Clinic said, “If [a] mother wants to bring four kids, so what?”

Doctors at USC and Good Samaritan Hospital also declined comment about the quadruplet pregnancy, citing patient confidentiality.

The California Medical Board has said it is looking into the Suleman case to determine whether a doctor may have violated any standards of care.

The American Society of Reproductive Medicine said it is also examining the doctor's practice. Although it appears Kamrava violated professional standards, there are no laws that limit the number of embryos that can be transferred in a fertility procedure.

Suleman said in an interview with NBC that her doctor transferred six embryos. She gave birth on Jan. 26, and although the births were initially lauded as a medical miracle, public opinion quickly turned when it was discovered that Suleman had six other children, was a single mom and relying on some public assistance, including food stamps and Social Security benefits. In the only other octuplet birth in U.S. history, only seven of the babies survived past one week.

-- Alan Zarembo, Jessica Garrison and Kimi Yoshino

[kitkatz]

Some of these people are out of control. She gets State money already. She is not getting my hard earned cash to feed her babes!