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Author Topic: Is Quitting Dialysis Suicide  (Read 112129 times)
bountyhunter_ga
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« Reply #250 on: September 23, 2009, 09:14:10 AM »

the decision should be yours, but first ask questions and be informed. Opinions are a dime a dozen, mix religion into the mix and then your off on another angle.

My friend try to live as long as you want to, look for something new everyday and maybe a new reason to live then.
If you think that  the rest of don't have some of the same feelings from time to time then your being lied to. Life is grand until its not anymore let it be between your God and you.
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« Reply #251 on: September 24, 2009, 12:24:42 PM »

I absolutely don't see dialysis as in any way painful or humiliating.

Everyone has a different experience on dialysis. For me, HD was pure hell and it was painful, horrible, and I just felt sicker as each day went by on it. PD however, was a life-saver while waiting for a transplant. It was not painful, I felt better everyday, and not only could I enjoy life, but I could -tolerate- life. Some people it's the complete opposite, and some have no problems with either.

As for the topic, I don't believe stopping dialysis or choosing not to even start dialysis is suicide. It's the patients right and choosing to let nature take it's course and not be on life support is no where near the same as being healthy and choosing to end your life.

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MomInDialysis
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« Reply #252 on: September 29, 2009, 04:22:00 PM »

If you concider quiting dialysis suiside, then you must concider unplugging life support, murder.  Both should be decided after much thought and concideration and never rushed into, but neither, in my opinion, should be concidered suiside or murder.  They are decisions and choices regarding quality of life, vs quantity of life.
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« Reply #253 on: September 29, 2009, 04:46:40 PM »

It's a matter of cause and effect. For example, if you jump off a 100ft high bridge to rocks below, everyone will get splattered and die. The cause of death was the person who chose to jump — it was suicide.

If a person was tied to a bungee chord before jumping, not everyone would get splattered over the rocks. Only those whose bungee chord was too long. Hence the cause of death was the length of chord — not suicide unless the person deliberatly chose too long a chord.

In the case of not undergoing dialysis, only those with kidney disease will die. Hence it's the disease that kills & it's not suicide.

Well, that's my logic.  :twocents;
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MomInDialysis
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« Reply #254 on: September 30, 2009, 12:40:11 PM »

Exactly! :thumbup;
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« Reply #255 on: April 18, 2011, 04:34:28 PM »

Making the Decision to Stop Dialysis
Dialysis at the End of Life

By Angela Morrow, RN, About.com Guide
Updated April 14, 2010

For patients with kidney failure, renal dialysis1 may be the only treatment keeping them alive, so the decision to stop dialysis is often a difficult one to make. By the time stopping dialysis even becomes an option, patients are often so sick and have such poor quality of life that the decision whether to continue or not may be quite easy for some to make. If you are a dialysis patient near the end of life or the decision maker for one, how can you be sure you are making the right decision to stop or continue dialysis?

Renal Failure

Kidney failure can be acute (sudden) or chronic (long-standing). Acute renal failure2 is a sudden loss of the kidney's ability to remove waste. It can be caused by certain diseases, extremely low blood pressure as a result of illness, injury, surgery, or certain infections. Chronic renal failure3 is the slow loss of kidney function over time. Chronic kidney disease is usually caused by diabetes or high blood pressure but can be caused by many other diseases as well. The final stage of chronic kidney disease is called end-stage renal disease (ESRD). Patients who find themselves faced with the choice to continue or stop dialysis almost always have ESRD.

When Might Discontinuing Dialysis be Considered?

Dialysis is a life-sustaining treatment and very beneficial when used appropriately, but it is important to recognize that dialysis also has limitations. It may not be beneficial to prolong life with dialysis if quality of life suffers dramatically. Prolonging life with dialysis may actually be prolonging the dying process4 for some patients, which is usually not desirable. It's generally agreed upon that patients might consider discontinuing dialysis if:

the patient also has an acute illness that will cause a great deal of disability if he survives (for example, a stroke),
the patient has a progressive and untreatable disease (diabetes, or cancer, for example), or
the patient has dementia5 or some other severe neurological disorder.
Discontinuing dialysis should never be considered in patients who can continue to lead a long and enjoyable life. If, however, a patient has kidney failure as a result of diabetes, has also gone blind, sustained double below-the-knee amputations of his legs, and is confined to his bed between trips to the dialysis clinic, he may question whether continuing dialysis is right for him. Another example is the healthy dialysis patient who suffers a massive stroke that has permanently damaged her brain. Her family may question whether to continue dialysis and prolong her life or whether they should allow a natural death6.

Making the Decision

Stopping dialysis for yourself or your loved one is a very personal decision and one only you can make. To make the decision that is right for you, I recommend taking these very important steps:

Talk to your physician about risks and benefits of continuing dialysis and the risks and benefits of stopping it.
Talk to your nurse, who often spends more time with your or your loved one, about quality of life. How would quality of life be affected by continuing or stopping dialysis?
If you are making the decision for someone else, check their Advance Directive7 for clues about how they would want to spend their final days.
Talk to your family and close loved ones about your decision. It's much easier to make a decision if you have the support of others.
Consider what death is like for someone with kidney failure. It may be preferable to stop dialysis and die of kidney failure than to continue dialysis and wait for death from cancer8, lung disease, stroke, or another concurrent illness.
With complete information, careful thought, and a compassionate heart you can be sure that whatever decision you make is the right one.

This About.com page has been optimized for print. To view this page in its original form, please visit: http://dying.about.com/od/lifesupport/a/dialysis.htm
©2011 About.com, Inc., a part of The New York Times Company. All rights reserved.
Links in this article:
http://dying.about.com/od/glossary/g/dialysis_def.htm
http://adam.about.net/encyclopedia/infectiousdiseases/Acute-kidney-failure.htm
http://adam.about.net/encyclopedia/infectiousdiseases/Chronic-renal-failure.htm
http://dying.about.com/od/thedyingprocess/a/process.htm
http://dying.about.com/od/neurological/a/dementia_cause.htm
http://dying.about.com/od/ethicsandchoices/g/AND.htm
http://dying.about.com/od/planningahead/a/adv_directive.htm
http://dying.about.com/od/thedyingprocess/f/dying_of_lung_cancer.htm
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
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edersham
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« Reply #256 on: April 18, 2011, 04:50:04 PM »

Okarol.

That about says it all. great post.

Thanks
Ed
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jbeany
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« Reply #257 on: April 18, 2011, 06:29:30 PM »


In countries where they deny dialysis for the poor or the elderly, are they committing murder?  :waiting;

YES YES YES and YES :stressed;

Okay, I agree that refusing medical treatment to people who want it can be considered murder.  (At least in a layperson's vocabulary, if not a legal one.)  It certainly strikes me as cruel and unethical, especially if the person, regardless of age, is still enjoying life and has family and friends whose lives they contribute to daily.

But what is then for those here in the US who are forced into it by their families?  Everyone who has ever watched a senile dementia patient wheeled into treatment and strapped down to keep them still so they don't yank out the cath or the needles, please raise their hand.
 :waving;
One of the patients at my center thought his own daughter was either the nurse or a taxi driver whenever she came to pick him up.
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« Reply #258 on: April 18, 2011, 11:40:58 PM »

heh is it suicide if u jump out of a plain and the parachute doesnt work?
sorry... it just seemed to fit ?

idk whether or not it is suicide, just like i dont know if doing dialysis is playing god... What i do know is, without it u die, with u it prolong death, so theres many sides to the issue.

As I always say quality vs quantity. choices...
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« Reply #259 on: April 19, 2011, 01:11:57 AM »

A quote from the movie Matrix Revolutions seems to fit in some situation. "The problem is choice" plus a few other words I kinda remember or piecing together from the movie.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 01:13:04 AM by Chris » Logged

Diabetes -  age 7

Neuropathy in legs age 10

Eye impairments and blindness in one eye began in 95, major one during visit to the Indy 500 race of that year
   -glaucoma and surgery for that
     -cataract surgery twice on same eye (2000 - 2002). another one growing in good eye
     - vitrectomy in good eye post tx November 2003, totally blind for 4 months due to complications with meds and infection

Diagnosed with ESRD June 29, 1999
1st Dialysis - July 4, 1999
Last Dialysis - December 2, 2000

Kidney and Pancreas Transplant - December 3, 2000

Cataract Surgery on good eye - June 24, 2009
Knee Surgery 2010
2011/2012 in process of getting a guide dog
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« Reply #260 on: April 19, 2011, 03:06:06 AM »

My doctor's PA (who doesn't always know what he is talking about) told me the other day "If things stay the way they are you could do this for another 25 years."  I think he thought THAT would make me happy???  I'm like... are you KIDDING ME?  OMG who would want to live like I'm living for another 25 years!  Really?

But.... I'd like to live another year.  I'd like to see a couple of more Christmases.  But, I just cannot think of doing this another 25 years.  I just can't think about it. 

                          :urcrazy;

I like having the option of quitting.  It keeps me going.  AGAIN.....   :urcrazy;

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« Reply #261 on: April 26, 2011, 11:08:07 AM »

Charles has been talking about this off & on since day 1.....he's told me at least once that the only reason he's doing all this (dialysis, dealing with the pain, the diet, etc) is because he doesn't want to let me & our daughter down any more than he already has. Some days, he feels as though his quality of life is just not worth it...he was a very active man prior to this...he can't even continue to do the job that he loves & was very good at (he installed hard wood floors...got some homes in Iowa in the parade of homes for the floors & detail he added). Now, when he gets "stable," he has to start a whole new career & he's not sure how to handle that. I know he wants, more than anything, to be able to play with our daughter like he used to, take the dogs for a run in the park...or even just a walk right now (he can barely get up or down the stairs of our apartment). It's something we've discussed at length. I look at the man he was before, & the man he is now....I understand where he's coming from, but at the same time, I am having to continually remind him that we are only at the beginning stages right now. It could very well get better. He could begin to get back some, if not most, of what he used to be. We have agreed, that if in at least 2 years time, things aren't getting any better for him, then we will discuss it again.
So, to make a long answer short....no, I don't believe that if you stop dialysis you are committing suicide. Dialysis is just an option for most who, like us, aren't ready to let go just yet. I thing that the people on dialysis who have dementia or other severe neurological disorders, maybe their families just aren't ready to let go.
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Wife of Charles --
   diagnosed with psoriasis in 2000?
   no diagnosed kidney issues until 3 weeks ago
   diagnosed with ESRD 2/24/11
   found out birth defect of kidney valve was cause 2/28/11
   started dialysis  3/1/11
   I still have a level head....most of the time
lmunchkin
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« Reply #262 on: April 26, 2011, 08:07:20 PM »

No stopping dialysis is not suicide. Don't pay any attention to those who say it is.  They apparently do not have "Living
Will" that states in that they do not want to go on a Dialysis machine to sustain their lifes.  Mine clearly states that along with a machine that helps you to breathe. Kidney's are Vital Organs, without them you die.

My grandfather, who was a preacher, had kidney failure and was asked if he wanted to dialyize and he said no, that he was ready to see his Lord and no problems in seeing him now rather than later!  He knew nothing about Dialysis. Guess some on this thread thinks he commited suicide.  How can that be if he never tried it in the first place.

Summer, my husband is going to stop it. He is tired of life tied to a machine. He, like your husband, was so healthy and full of love for life, not just in what he did, but for living for his children and wife. He worked hard to provide and people depended on him.  This DEADLY disease stripped him of all of that. High B/P and B/S (Diabetes) took his Kidneys (Vital), his limps, sight and mind (slightly). He is in a wheelchair now cause he can't get a prothetic on if he retains even the least bit of fluid.

Anyrate, when he decides to stop, I will be there for him just as Iam there for him now. I will do whatever he requires of me.  If he wants to live out his life tied to a machine for support, then I will be there.  If he doesnt, then I will be there.  I Love my husband, unconditionally!  I thank God for dialysis cause it has given my more time to get my ducks in line and more time with this precious man that he has sent to me. I also love him enough to understand that he is a man of Love, Pride & Dignity. He is also a believer in Jesus, so this is not a hard decision for him cause he does know where he is going when he dies.

I have learned alot from my husbands disease, but the one thing I do know is that I will not put myself through what he did. If I get terminal cancer or ESRD, I refuse to put our children through that.  I guess I'll be commiting suicide, huh?

It is true that God created man, but he did not create a Dialysis machine, man did.  If God did, it would RUN PERFECT!!!!!!
Seriously, I am so thankful & blessed to have whatever time I have with hubby.  We just enjoy every moment cause there wont be any more left when the time comes. I have also seen this wonderful man dewindle into a totally dependent on others for his needs.  It is so tough for me to watch this awesome guy suffer in the way that he has. But, I hold my tongue and go with my heart for this man that I love soooooo much! He does not want to go on living like this.  Some may think it is the kind of life they want for years, but to my husband, it is not living!

That's his choice and I will honor it as his wife! IT IS NOT SUICIDE TO STOP DIALYSIS!!!!!  It is a in the "Living Will"
that we all should have.

lmunchkin
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 08:10:14 PM by lmunchkin » Logged

11/2004 Hubby diag. ESRD, Diabeties, Vascular Disease & High BP
12/2004 to 6/2009 Home PD
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« Reply #263 on: April 26, 2011, 10:44:45 PM »

Very heartfelt message lmunchkin - it sounds like you've had a good life with your hubby and will give him the dignity he deserves to decide what is best for him.

I saw this article you may be interested in. It's called "Should I stop kidney dialysis?"
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/kidney-bladder/kidney-disease/treatment/stop-dialysis

Stopping dialysis is removing the artificial kidney, and allowing a natural death, in my opinion.
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
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« Reply #264 on: April 29, 2011, 06:00:13 PM »

I just know I'm so grateful, so far it has worked for me. Would I continue if needed again?
I don't know the answer yet and it will be between me and the voice in my head.
I love life but I now know dying not so bad, I believe I have seen or at least got real close. Thank you all

This question is very personal between the inflected person and how much they can take ,God knows.
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lmunchkin
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« Reply #265 on: April 29, 2011, 07:15:39 PM »

Very well put, B.Hunter! I do believe "God Knows". 

lmunchkin
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11/2004 Hubby diag. ESRD, Diabeties, Vascular Disease & High BP
12/2004 to 6/2009 Home PD
6/2009 Peritonitis , PD Cath removed
7/2009 Hemo Dialysis In-Center
2/2010 BKA rt leg & lt foot (all toes) amputated
6/2010 to present.  NxStage at home
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« Reply #266 on: May 16, 2011, 01:05:12 PM »

For some of who have lost all hope and dreams of being a father ,mother or anything else besides a burden to our family and self.
 Just think , those poor people on top of the twin towers who jumped to their death, Do we burn to death because that's what God would want us to do or jump, we could get there faster.

Life is what most of us understand and want. We all have a right to our own opinion so far.
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« Reply #267 on: May 16, 2011, 05:00:37 PM »

For some of who have lost all hope and dreams of being a father ,mother or anything else besides a burden to our family and self.
 Just think , those poor people on top of the twin towers who jumped to their death, Do we burn to death because that's what God would want us to do or jump, we could get there faster.

Life is what most of us understand and want. We all have a right to our own opinion so far.

That image of people jumping off the building is burned in my memory as the helicopter could not help them, sad, sad memory.
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Diabetes -  age 7

Neuropathy in legs age 10

Eye impairments and blindness in one eye began in 95, major one during visit to the Indy 500 race of that year
   -glaucoma and surgery for that
     -cataract surgery twice on same eye (2000 - 2002). another one growing in good eye
     - vitrectomy in good eye post tx November 2003, totally blind for 4 months due to complications with meds and infection

Diagnosed with ESRD June 29, 1999
1st Dialysis - July 4, 1999
Last Dialysis - December 2, 2000

Kidney and Pancreas Transplant - December 3, 2000

Cataract Surgery on good eye - June 24, 2009
Knee Surgery 2010
2011/2012 in process of getting a guide dog
Guide Dog Training begins July 2, 2012 in NY
Guide Dog by end of July 2012
Next eye surgery late 2012 or 2013 if I feel like it
Home with Guide dog - July 27, 2012
Knee Surgery #2 - Oct 15, 2012
Eye Surgery - Nov 2012
Lifes Adventures -  Priceless

No two day's are the same, are they?
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« Reply #268 on: June 11, 2013, 11:36:55 PM »

This article is referenced somewhere else in this thread, but I wanted to ask another question.
Would refusing to begin dialysis be considered committing suicide?

"Art Buchwald, 80-year-old humorist and columnist is suffering from kidney failure and recently made public his decision to forego dialysis that could possibly prolong his life."
WATCH HERE: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/jan-june06/buckwald_3-28.html
He lasted a year before passing away.



CONVERSATION    AIR DATE: March 28, 2006
Buchwald on Choosing How to Live and Die
SUMMARY
Eighty-year-old humorist and Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Art Buchwald is suffering from kidney failure. He recently made public his decision to forego dialysis that could possibly prolong his life, at what he considers too burdensome a cost. In the following interview, Buchwald discusses his life, death and laughter.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Buchwald died at his home on Jan. 17, 2007, at age 81.

Transcript
ART BUCHWALD, Humorist and Columnist: We can party now. We got the place until 5.

JEFFREY BROWN: Art Buchwald can't help but enjoy life and make others laugh, even as he nears his own death. The 80-year-old humorist and columnist is suffering from kidney failure and recently made public his decision to forego dialysis that could possibly prolong his life, at what he considers too burdensome a cost.

Buchwald's spending his final days here at the Washington home and community hospices in Washington, D.C., surrounded by friends and family...

JEAN-DAVID LEVITTE, French Ambassador to the U.S.: This is the moment...

ART BUCHWALD: Oh, boy.

(APPLAUSE)

JEFFREY BROWN: ... and being feted by dignitaries, including French Ambassador Jean-David Levitte, who recently honored Buchwald for his contribution to arts and culture during his 14 years as a journalist in Paris.

ART BUCHWALD: I didn't know dying was this much fun.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

JEFFREY BROWN: Through more than five decades, Art Buchwald has written some 8,000 columns, read by hundreds of thousands of readers, beginning in 1948 in Paris, where he lived and documented the highlife for the European edition of the New York Herald-Tribune, hobnobbed with an array of celebrities and, through humor, explained Americans and the French to one another.

Back in Washington, beginning in the 1960s, he turned his sharp wit on the foibles of politicians of all stripes. At its height, his column appeared in 550 newspapers worldwide and won Buchwald a Pulitzer Prize for outstanding commentary in 1982.

Starting with the Johnson presidency, Buchwald's writings were collected in numerous books, Democrats and Republicans, up to George W. Bush, all targets of his satire.

In the '90s, Buchwald published two memoirs, one on his Paris years, another on his early life and the trauma of never knowing his mother, who was institutionalized in a psychiatric facility soon after Buchwald's birth.

He and his sisters would grow up in a series of foster homes, before he left high school to join the Marines and serve in the Pacific during World War II. All in all, quite a life, and he's still at it, writing two columns last week and a new one just today.

When I called to ask if he felt up to talking about his life and his decision on dying, he said, "Sure, come on by."

I had a great time reading your memoir, "Leaving Home," in which you wrote: "I must have been six or seven years old, terribly lonely and confused, when I said something like, 'This stinks. I'm going to become a humorist.'"

ART BUCHWALD: Yes. I wasn't joking. I discovered at a very early age, because I was a foster child and everything, that I could make kids laugh, so I got all of my love from the crowds. And I've been doing that all my life.

JEFFREY BROWN: And so what did humor come to mean for you? What did it let you do?

ART BUCHWALD: I don't explain it as what it means to me; all I know is that I can be funny. And I've found out they pay for it, and that's when it really got good, when I started on the Herald-Tribune, and they were paying me for making people laugh.

JEFFREY BROWN: How did you know, from wine and restaurants and the Paris highlife?

ART BUCHWALD: I didn't. And when the editor asked me after I took the job that same question, "What did you know?" I said, "I was the wine taster in the Marine Corps."

JEFFREY BROWN: When you came back to Washington and you're writing about politics and all the foibles of Washington, it's great fun to go back and see that you wrote about Republicans, Democrats, Reagan, Clinton, Nixon, Carter. You're bipartisan, huh?

ART BUCHWALD: Well, I had a line in my talk which said, "I'm not a Democrat or a Republican; I'm just against who's ever in power." And they asked me about Nixon and I said, "I worshipped the very quicksand he walks on."

(LAUGHTER)

JEFFREY BROWN: So they all provided material for you, huh?

ART BUCHWALD: I'm still here. I've been doing this for 55 years. So, yes, they provided me with material.

To this day, this president has been very good to me. Humor is one thing; satire is another. And after all of these years in the business, I think you want to be known as a satirist, because you want people to nod their heads instead of laughing, saying, "Yes, he's right."

JEFFREY BROWN: You mean nod their head, as in, "I'm learning something, as well as laughing"?

ART BUCHWALD: Yes. Yes, I'm on their side.

JEFFREY BROWN: I see. You feel like you're on the side of the reader, is that what you're trying to do?

ART BUCHWALD: Yes, I'm not on the side of, I don't know, the reader, but I'm on the side of good against evil. I am a good person.

JEFFREY BROWN: Now, where does all of this material come from? Do you just sit and read the newspaper?

ART BUCHWALD: Where does it come from? You pick up the newspaper every day, you got Vice President Cheney.

JEFFREY BROWN: You mean, you read it, you get mad, but then you write it as something funny?

ART BUCHWALD: Yes, I do better when I'm mad. I learned that people want to laugh, and also the readers, or most of them, want somebody to say, "This is full of it. This is not what it's about."

And as you know, each administration does the same thing: They twist things; they do everything except possibly tell you the truth. So I figured, well, I think, for the heck of it, I'll tell them the truth, at least as I see it.

JEFFREY BROWN: We came to talk to you in this hospice...

ART BUCHWALD: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: ... because you've made a decision...

ART BUCHWALD: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: ... not to go on to dialysis...

ART BUCHWALD: Dialysis, yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: ... which could prolong your life.

ART BUCHWALD: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: Why did you decide that?

ART BUCHWALD: Well, it was a complicated thing. I had lost my leg -- nobody knows why, but gangrene set in, and I lost this leg. It had nothing to do with the kidney. This leg had to do with the kidney.

I examined it, and I said, "I'm not going to go into dialysis." They took my leg, and I was furious. So I finally made the decision, because we do have choices, and I said, "I'm not going to have it."

So I went into this hospice. I was supposed to go in two or three weeks. That was the average for people that didn't take dialysis. I've been here since February 7th.

The doctors don't know what's going on. I don't care if they don't know what's going on, because I'm having such a good time. And my mantra now is, "Death is on hold."

JEFFREY BROWN: Death is on hold?

ART BUCHWALD: Yes. And here I am doing a show with you, and I'm supposed to be dead.

JEFFREY BROWN: You don't mind at all talking about these things, living and dying, do you?

ART BUCHWALD: I don't, for several reasons. One is that, as I say, people don't like to talk about death. In fact, they don't mention it.

And if someone talks about it on television or radio, it makes it OK for them to talk about it. But we can't avoid the fact that we're all going to go.

We can talk -- and I wrote a column about this -- about the hereafter. Some people believe in the hereafter, that this is one step of their way to heaven or whatever. And other people, a lot of my friends, think it's over as soon as you go, that you die, it's over.

So I wrote a column on that, because everybody has a different opinion on it. Also, it depends on faith. If you're a believer, like several of my friends, then you believe they're going to meet their people in heaven, their loved ones. At the same time, I know people who say, "I don't know."

And I wrote at the end of the column, I said, "The question isn't: Where are you going? It's: What are you doing here in the first place?"

JEFFREY BROWN: You know, a lot of people, of course, are uncomfortable talking about dying, partly because they're just afraid.

ART BUCHWALD: Yes, fear.

JEFFREY BROWN: Are you afraid of dying?

ART BUCHWALD: No, apparently, I'm not.

JEFFREY BROWN: You're not?

ART BUCHWALD: Apparently, I'm not. I don't know what's coming. I'm not predicting anything, but it's an interesting thing.

But in the past month, when I decided to make my choice, it's been the happiest years of all. I've seen friends, caught up with all the people in my life from every different place. I've been talking to people. We talk about everything under the sun.

If I was at home, I wouldn't see these people. Like most people, you just die. But here, everybody knows it, so everybody is kind to me. And even people send me cheesecakes.

JEFFREY BROWN: And as you have a chance to say good-bye to people, what do you want them, friends and your readers, to remember about you?

ART BUCHWALD: Well, I guess being the person I am, I want them to remember me for laughter, that I made them laugh. And I also want them to remember me, that I was a good guy. I mean, that's part of the fantasy. And we have -- my children and I have already planned my memorial service.

JEFFREY BROWN: You have it all planned?

ART BUCHWALD: Yes, so it's going to be a beautiful ceremony, and it could be a very hot ticket.

JEFFREY BROWN: Art Buchwald, thanks so much for letting us come talk to you.

ART BUCHWALD: Delighted to be here. Better here than some of the places I could be.
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
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« Reply #269 on: June 12, 2013, 09:51:48 AM »

The Catholic Church recently came out with a ruling that refusing dialysis for ESRD was not considered suicide in the Church's eyes. They ruled that dialysis was considered an extraordinary measure and could be refused if the patient decided they did not wish to endure that.
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Henry P Snicklesnorter
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« Reply #270 on: June 12, 2013, 10:04:07 AM »

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okarol
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« Reply #271 on: June 25, 2013, 01:47:21 AM »

Thanks Henry.  :waving;
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
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« Reply #272 on: June 28, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »

Suicide is a touchy subject and I think everyone has their own definition. I don't think you can put a black and white definition on it. I know a lot about suicide having lost my best friend when he took his life at age 22 and losing a cousin last year who was 33. I've also considered taking my life several times, not sure what got me through those dark times, but I've been down that road.

I'm such a free spirit I have my own take on suicide that differs from our government and a lot of people. I believe ANYONE should be able to do what they want with their life as long as they don't harm anyone else in the process. That means to me if you feel like your life is not worth living and you have a compelling reason to check out, you should be able to without anyone interfering. I also can't stand it when people say, "If you take your life you are going to hell." That really irks me. If your life is so bad you choose to end it, I can't see how a loving God is going to send you to hell. Even more so, if you stop medical treatment, God is not going to punish you.

Now I know this raises a lot of questions because let's say someone isn't thinking clearly. Like the night I got so drunk and nearly jumped off a bridge but was saved by my friend. I wasn't in my right mind that night. I don't think I really wanted to die and looking back I'm glad I didn't. So, there is an exception to my own rule. I would want people to get help that could benefit from it but who's to say? I mean it's not so black and white then is it?

I will leave off with this, 15 years ago I really wanted to take my life. I had just lost what I thought at the time was the love of my life. I was miserable. I thought I couldn't go on.  I really thought my life was over.  A police officer was worried about me and approached me. I reached into my backpack and told him I had a gun. I was very young and stupid. I didn't have a gun, I just wanted him to shoot me. He backed away. I walked down the street and about 10 minutes later a police officer jumped out at me pointing a shotgun at my chest and screamed at me "Let me see your hands motherf$#%%@! At that moment I made a decision to live. But it really was 50/50. What if I didn't do it? Would I be alive today? Looking back I'm so glad I complied and lived to see another day. That woman wasn't worth it. Time heals all wounds. She doesn't mean anything to me now. She's not even on my radar.

My point is things do get better. You could give up but how do you know things won't get better? How do you know there isn't a major medical breakthrough in kidney disease right around the corner that will change your life forever? It's not even out of the realm of possibility. They just developed the first lab grown kidney in a lab here in Boston a few months ago. There's still a long way to go as this was done for a rodent, but it's on the map. 60 years ago if you had end stage renal disease it was a death sentence. Now there are people living decades on dialysis alone! This is what keeps me going. I know things will get better. But I still believe we all should have the right to decide how we exit this world ourselves. I don't condone suicide, but it's up to the individual. I don't know if any of this will make any sense to anyone else. This is just my take on giving up/suicide. I don't think we can put in a neat little box and classify it because it's all open to interpretation. 
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noahvale
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« Reply #273 on: June 28, 2013, 05:53:52 PM »

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« Reply #274 on: June 29, 2013, 12:05:52 AM »

Very heartfelt message lmunchkin - it sounds like you've had a good life with your hubby and will give him the dignity he deserves to decide what is best for him.

I saw this article you may be interested in. It's called "Should I stop kidney dialysis?"
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/conditions/kidney-bladder/kidney-disease/treatment/stop-dialysis

Stopping dialysis is removing the artificial kidney, and allowing a natural death, in my opinion.

Would you consider a diabetic who quits taking insulin allowing a natural death?

Withdrawing medical care even in the face of certain death is not considered suicide by the courts, nor by many religious institutions. It is instead considered the right of an autonomous person to chose to withdraw that care. Yes, they would die of the underlying disease and not by suicide legally and by many religious systems.
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Peter Laird, MD
www.hemodoc.info
Diagnosed with IgA nephropathy 1998
Incenter Dialysis starting 2-1-2007
Self Care in Center from 4-15-2008 to 6-2-2009
Started  Home Care with NxStage 6-2-2009 (Qb 370, FF 45%, 40L)

All clinical and treatment related issues discussed on this forum are for informational purposes only.  You must always secure your own medical teams approval for all treatment options before applying any discussions on this site to your own circumstances.
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