I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Other Severe Medical Conditions => Topic started by: annabanana on May 09, 2008, 05:04:51 AM
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I'm so worried about my husband. He quit drinking (beer) last year because of HepC and CKD. He is an alcoholic...for 30 years. He's now in stage 4 CKD and has become very depressed about the way he feels, what he can't do anymore, etc. So last Saturday he talked to me about wanting to start drinking again. He will not see a counselor or go to AA, etc. I told him he would not be able to get on the liver transplant list if he continues to drink. He started back drinking anyway. He says life is not worth living if he can't feel good...OK...but is drinking the answer? It is for him. He's one of those "productive alcoholics." He's never abusive or even unkind. But it will kill him. I guess I have 2 questions. How will this affect his kidney? and how can I help him through this horrible depression? I've told him about a lot of you here, waitiing for a kidney, being on dialysis for years, doing everything to stop decline in health. But he won't come here to read your stories, which I think would give him hope. He won't take anti-depressants, either. Made him mad when I suggested it. I feel like there's nothing I can do.
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You should be able to copy and paste the stories into word or print the page you want him to read. That's a start. There isn't much you can do once someone makes their mind up, except explain to him how his decision effects you and your life. I understand depression and it's a tough one. Hang in there, thanks for being there for him. :grouphug;
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Thanks, Sluff. I will copy some of the stories and read them to him. It does sound like a start. It's very difficult to see him give up...makes me want to give up, too, but I can't. I want to respect his wishes but I also want to give him hope. My whole world has changed. I have a hard time now figuring out what is right.
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Dear Annabanana
It's really tough what you're going through since it is not something that is in your control. It's hard to see someone you care about hurting themselves and your husband, by drinking the way he does, is probably trying to medicate the depression himself with the alcohol. Problem is that alcohol often leaves people more depressed so it's a wicked cycle. Your support, like Sluff said, is a great gift to your husband but please take care of yourself too. I don't know if it would be helpful to you but Al-Anon offers support to people living with alcoholics. My Dad was depressed and alcoholic his whole life except the last 8 years and I wish that as a kid I had had a place to talk about how it was affecting me. My Dad also was never abusive or unkind but his drinking took a toll on all of us.
I think the most important thing to remember is that no matter what you do it is he who must decide to give up drinking or not (well you already know that duh) and that it's not a reflection on YOU, your efforts or your love for him.
Take good care of you as well.
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I come from a family of alcoholics and I have been going to Alanon for over 20 years (it's a support group for anyone affected by someones drug or alcohol abuse.)
You cannot change someones behavior but you can change how you respond to it. If an alcoholic will not get help or support, it's the same as someone who will not take chemo for cancer or insulin for diabetes. If they refuse to get treatment for their disease you cannot cure them. But Alanon helps those around them learn to cope and get tools to help themselves. You can find meetings in your area, or get more info online at http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/. Alanon is free, it's a self help group. I would encourage you to go to a meeting annabanana - you'd be surprised how your change will ultimately improve your situation. Lots of HUGS for you!
:grouphug;
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Thank you, monrein. I have often thought about going to al-anon. Interesting that you mentioned that it's not a reflection on me, as that is how I've been feeling...like I am not enough. I fight this feeling because I know the addiction for Randy is overwhelming....but I just wish with all my heart that things were different.
okarol, I guess al-anon is the place for me. I do need tools. And hugs! Thank you!
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:grouphug; :cuddle; :grouphug;
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I'm so sorry your husband (and you) are going through this. Depression is a wicked difficult thing to get ahold of, and addictions on top of it are just hell. I hope that Al Anon can give you some good support and tools and your husband eventually turns things around for himself. Meanwhile, keep talking about it here all you want -- there are a thousand ears open for your words and a thousand hands reaching out.
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Thank you so very much, Psim. When this first came up, last Saturday, I wanted to immediately post on IHD then I just went under, and stopped pretty much everything. It took me a week to come here with this problem. There are so many emotions involved that I can't get a grip on what's right and wrong. The other day I saw Randy with a beer and I told him I didn't care. Then later I told him that I cared very much, but didn't want to care. Then, even later, I told him that I will never stop my caregiver role with him but that it was very difficult to hold it together for both of us. I feel as if I've already lost him. I just tell him I love him all the time now and maybe that will help him.
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annabanana - When they have done something I don't like I've sometimes told my boys that "I don't like you just now but I will ALWAYS love you" I think that is how you feel about Randy. You can't stop caring but boy wouldn't it be easier if you could. I feel for both of you, I'm sure he doesn't want to put you through this but depression is dreadful and to add addiction to it is almost too much. Al-anon sounds a good place to start but please post here whenever and whatever you need to get out of your system, ultimately we can't solve things but we can try to help by 'listening'. We love you :grouphug; I'm sending you a special Sluffbunny to keep your spirits up :bunny:
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Dear Annabanana, you touched my heart. My father was the sweetest, most gentle man I have ever known, but he was an alcoholic and the drink was more important than anything else. He, also, was never mean or hurtful. Just quietly drank his life away. I realize now, that he had many emotional problems and never seeked help. You are doing the right thing by finding places for you to go for help. You can't make him stop or even change his mind about his life right now. I do like Sluff's idea about printing out some of the inspirational posts here. I am not sure why men are hesitant to take medication for depression. My sister's husband has liver disease and will eventually need a transplant. He is depressed and in a bad mood all the time. He won't tell the doctor. He would rather be miserable. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. This is rough time for both of you. I am so sorry :cuddle;
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i can't say any more than what has already been said. know we love you and are here for you anytime you have anything that needs saying. the best way you can care for your husband is to be sure you care for yourself. and to know that his problems aren't because of you. he has to make the choices you can't do it for him. you'll be in our prayers. :grouphug;
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Rose, it's so true: "I don't like you just now but I will ALWAYS love you." That's exactly how I feel. And true that he does not want to put me through this, so he hides his feelings a lot. He cried when he told me he wanted to start drinking again. He knows how dangerous it is. He knows how it hurts me, too, that he's not happy and I can't make it okay. I try so hard to respect him, though. Thank you for listening and thanks for the Sluffbunny! :)
Paris, I think Randy is like your father...he, too, has many emotional problems that he won't seek ANY help for, not even from me. There have been a few times when he almost started sharing with me but he shuts down. It's too hard for him so he drinks and buries his problems. He's such a beautiful human being, so gentle and kind. We used to laugh and have fun so much and now that's pretty much all gone. He tries and he thinks about it, but it never gets that far anymore. I'm going to an Al-Anon meeting on Monday. I think it will help me and maybe it will help him, too. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.
thegrammalady, I think that's the hardest part, giving up trying to talk him out of drinking. I know I can't make that choice for him. I tell him how I feel about it and then I feel bad because he feels bad, etc etc, so I make the decision to respect his wishes and that feels bad, too. But as long as there's a chance he'll change his mind I will let him know how I feel and hope that's the right thing to do.
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Other than fluid restrictions, drinking probably wouldn't hurt as long as he doesn't overdo it. I still enjoy a drink or two in the evenings and my doctor hasn't voiced any disapproval. I don't have any other medical issues and I don't have any depression. You probably need to discuss his situation with his doctor.
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:grouphug;
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flip, he's got Hepatitis C. They all say no to drinking with this disease. I told him we'd have to tell the drs. but he said no to that. But I want to thank you for telling me about your evening drinks and that it hasn't done you harm. This is one thing I'm really worried about...the effect it would have on his remaining kidney.
Thanks for the hugs, OB!
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Anna, my BIL can't drink at all with liver disease. The doctor will need to know.
Also, flip, if you are an alcoholic, a drink or two in the evening isn't the problem. One leads to bottomless bottles, closing yourself off from family and friends and wasting away. It is a sad disease to watch a love one live with.
Anna, I have been thinking of you all day. You have taken a good first step for yourself by opening up to us. Glad you found a meeting to go to on Monday. I know you are very worried about Randy :cuddle;
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I tried about 4 different meetings before I found one that I liked. The women who have been my support all these years have become like family I rely on when things get tough. I hope you find the same kind of support!
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Sorry, Anna, I overlooked the Hep-C thing. Here in the Bible Belt many people believe that anyone who has a drink on a regular basis is an alcoholic so I wasn't sure where your husband fits in. People with liver problems and/or diabetes should not drink but, for many of us, a couple of glasses of wine a day is good for the health.
Being retired from law enforcement, I have seen the damage that excessive alcohol consumption can do and I hope and pray that yours in not one of these situations.
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Anna,
I think you need to intervene. It is not enough for you to go to Alanon or to tell him you are willing to be a caregiver anyway.
He needs help! His life does not have to be this way. He is reaching out to you the best way he knows how and you need to throw him
a life line. Call his doctor and tell the doctor what you have told us. Then tell him that he needs to see the doctor about this and maybe
even take anti-depressants for a while along with go to a therapist till he gets through this. It is hard for me to admit to this, but this is what happened to
me after I was diagnosed with ESRD. I told my husband I wanted to die and didn't care what happened to me. And I truly didn't. He called my general
practitioner and they threatened to have me committed unless I agreed to try anti-depressants and see a therapist. It was the best thing I ever did and
it saved my life. Please don't let this slip through the cracks. Ask the doctor for help. Most importantly, DO NOT ACCEPT THIS because things do not have to be this way.
I am rooting for you both.
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I don't drink alcohol because i lived that life my entire childhood and didn't want my children to grow up the way I did. I loved my Father dearly but he was violently abusive and drank everyday in excess. I know the damaging effects on the rest of the family. I hope you get some help as needed and realize what the others are saying out of love. :grouphug;
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I was gone for the weekend and came back to find all of this loving support. Thank you all very much! I have thought of intervening. It's difficult to do that. I had to do it with my sister once and 3 days later she was out of rehab because she didn't choose it herself. 3 doctors even signed off on commiting her. That's the law here in TN. unless you are considered a danger to yourself or others. I know he is endangering his life...but they will not see it that way. They will say he has a choice and I know if I intervene he will get out in 3 days. But I will ask his doctors anyway, just in case the laws have changed. I've offered him every option and he refuses. He's been in rehab before and he thinks it will not help him. Then maybe they can convince him. But he's full-force drinking now, as I knew he would be after he took that first drink. He was clean for 8 months. And he says he was miserable the whole time. I don't believe that...and it's impossible for me to understand how anyone with a liver disease and ckd could pick up drinking after 8 months of being sober.
Before he started drinking again I gave him so much hope, I thought. Now I talk to him honestly, even brutally sometimes, about his life. He said he will live for 10 to 15 more years and I told him I didn't even give him 5 years. We have been planning to build a house in the country for a while and I told him we needed to start now. Get our finances in order, etc. It's horrible talking to him this way but it's honest. It's so very very difficult to care when he doesn't care at all.
We live in the Bible Belt, too. Unfortunately Randy drinks way more than a few drinks. When I first met him 10 years ago he would secretly drink a 6-pack BEFORE going to work. I was so naive! I've never been around drinking like this so I didn't know. He never acted drunk or abusive. I've left him twice in our marriage. He always would quit for a while. It's been rough. But I really thought he would change after being diagnosed with HepC.
Thanks for letting me go on and on. As you can probably tell, my brain is going in a million different directions. Worried about everything. Trying to find good solutions. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the support I find here. Much love to all of you.
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Anna,
This is so hard for you. I think you are on the right track ,though, in talking to his doctors.
All of these illnesses he has to deal with are soooooo hard and I understand his point of view.I know how hard ESRD has been for me.
I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I am very concerned for your well being, though, because he doesn't live in a bubble. Everything he does
also effects you. If he does live for 10 more years as he thinks he might, this means 10 more years of anguish for you too. A very difficult
situation for a loving person like you to be in. I hope things can turn around for the better for him soon. I'm wishing you both the best.
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Thank you, Sunny. There is a good thing in my life: my kids. 2 grown daughters, a grown son, and a wonderful 12 yr. old son who is such a joy. I hold it together FOR them AND with their help. It's amazing when I'm so far down and lost, they get me going again. I refuse to get so depressed that I stop seeing how beautiful life is. I have to fight it, though. I just wish with all my heart that I could show Randy these feelings. I try, but it does no good. I know it must be unbearable for him to be so sick. I know I cannot understand at all. But I see all of you here fighting so hard for a good life and I wish Randy felt the same.
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Anna, from what you say Randy may have been depressed for a very long time and his CKD may have just been too too much on top of it all. Depression is so debilitating and people suffering from it really see everything "through a glass darkly". We all react so differently to stresses and some depression is a response to a situation and some seems to be more hard-wired in some people. Put the two together and that's a really tough combo. No easy answers here for sure especially when it's not you posting about you but hopefully you gain some support for yourself knowing that we care about both of you. I'm glad your kids are supportive of you too.
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Monrein, yes, I think Randy has tried to self-medicate for years. I have brought up anti-depressants as an option before and he always gets mad. It is a double-whammy now that he's so sick. I think it's his choice, his life, and all I need to do is respect his decisions. And try to help him through whatever he's going through even if that means just me being present, which is what it's been like lately. But then I think like Sunny...intervene right away. Tough decision.
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I knew a guy here who had a serious drinking problem. His doctor finally put him on some type of medication that made him very sick if he drank alcohol. I haven't seen him in years so I don't know how it turned out. It might be worth checking into.
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Flip, I will check on this medication. Thanks for letting me know about this. Things have been strange here with Randy continuing to drink. Today he actually said he thinks his blood work numbers will be better because he's drinking again. I know this is a rationalization and addiction causes this.
I know now that Randy has 3 diseases: CKD, HepC, and alcoholism. This realization has helped me cope a little better because I view it as a disease now instead of a choice.
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Thinking of you Anna. :grouphug;
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Anna,
I too have been thinking of you and send you HUGS!
The compulsion to drink is a strong one - it helps the alcoholic cope with life - and without a program it's very difficult to stay sober for very long.
I too believe it is a disease, but the choice comes in about whether or not to treat the disease, and he is choosing to go untreated, which is going to ultimately make things worse. I do not think it is unreasonable that you want him to get the best treatment for his diseases. This has a huge impact on you too. I hope you have found some help to give you support !
:cuddle;
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I have found good support but he refuses any and all programs. He's stopped going to get his scheduled blood work done. So he has chosen not to treat any of his diseases. Right now all I can do is prepare myself for the time when he needs emergency care. I have made good choices for MY life, I think. Support in many places, including and especially IHD, has helped me so much. The "one day at a time" relates more to me right now than to my alcoholic husband.
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It's funny, I have a problem with John, I keep trying to stop him drinking, he is not an alcoholic (at least I don't think so) but he does like his drink every day 3 to 4 glasses of wine and whisky in the evening. I try to tell him it's too much with his condition. When the doctor asks him how much he drinks, he says 2 glasses of red wine a day and the doctor said that's alright red wine is good for you. I can't keep nagging him, it's his life. :Kit n Stik; sometimes I feel like doing that to him to make him see sense. I do feel for you, our life with a sick husband is not much fun but it must be worse for them. Yvonne
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Yvonne, You're right that it must be much worse for them. And if Randy was like your husband I would not feel so scared. But Randy has HepC along with CKD, and should not drink any alcohol. His liver is in bad shape and drinking removes any chance of him getting on a transplant list. So he's pretty much signed his own death warrent.
He and I had a serious talk about this last night. He realizes how dangerous it is. Bottom line for him is that he's always lived his life a certain way, which includes drinking. Every day. Quite a bit, which I define as more than a 6-pack of beer. On the weekends he has to force himself to wait until 10:30 a.m. before he starts. He is so addicted to beer that he does not feel normal without it. He is not a bad man at all. He's wonderful and gentle and kind. He works hard every day, even though he feels so tired all the time. He builds additions from the ground up. Does all this with one helper.
Last night I told him how I felt. He told me how he felt...and the only thing I can do is try to respect his wishes, while making sure he knows how dangerous it is for him to drink. He's made the choice to risk his life by doing the things he wants to do...living his life the way he wants. He's like somebody who decides to stop dialysis. He said his death will be much harder on me than on him. I have seen his depression lift because of my acceptance of his wishes. What else can I do? Leave him, which I won't do...Or be in his face, which does not work. I will tell his doctors, though. But he already knows everything they will tell him.
You know, I might admire the hell out of him for living the way he wants in the face of such dire consequences. I'm working on that, but it's hard because it's alcoholism.
I wish things were different but they're not.
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So sorry, Anna. :cuddle; :grouphug; I'm thinking of both of you and sending love.
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Anna, I want you to know how much I admire your attitude of respect for Randy's choices despite how sad etc those choices make you feel. I still struggle with my anger at my Dad for all his drinking even though he was a good guy too. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself. :cuddle;
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Oh Anna,
I really feel for you. But let me just say, you are being very brave considering the difficulties you are facing.
Your husband is facing difficulties too and the drinking is his way of coping. I just wish he could find a healthier coping
method. All you can do is your best efforts, and you really have no control over others if they don't want help.
I once went 6 months without having my bloodwork numbers checked. I just didn't want to worry about it.
Nobody even noticed: not my renal doctor, nor my general practitioner, nor my husband. One day the waiting
list transplant center called to check in on me and told me they didn't have any bloodwork from me for a while.
That was my wake -up call and I finally went back to my regular monthly blood draws. Since your husband probably
isn't on a transplant list, he probably feels like he has an unending future stuck to a dialysis machine. For some of us,
this is a hard future to live with. All of us renal patients know this. We've all had to face it. For some it is easier than for others.
So, make sure you don't blame yourself for his actions and keep being the strong loving person that you are.
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Oh Anna, I so wish things were different for Randy. It seems like a good thing that you two had a big talk about his drinking... but very sad as well. You are right to focus on the things you can change... Sending you prayers and hugs. :grouphug;
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Thank you all for the kind words. I believe if I did not have IHD in my life I would be in really bad shape. Today I told Randy that the best gift I could give him would be to allow him his choices without making him feel guilty and horrible. I also told him how I wish more than anything that his choices were different. It's very difficult to put those 2 thoughts together and have them make sense. But I think he understood what I feel. He was very happy for the first time in a while.
I told him that our plum trees are too young to bloom just yet and he asked me how many years it would take for them to start blooming. I said I wasn't sure and he said it would be a shame if he missed the first blooming. Then he said, "That's a bad thing for me to say." And I told him it wasn't bad at all. At least he knows the seriousness of his choice and is not in denial like I thought he was.
I don't think I can ever give up hope that he will change his mind, though.
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:grouphug;
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Anna, how are you doing? And how is Randy? I think about you two all the time. :cuddle;
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Paris, Thank you for asking about me and Randy. I have been off-line for a while. My sister died last week. She, too, was an addict, of prescription pills. We think she just forgot what she'd taken and ended up taking too many. It's been very difficult. I've been taking care of my mother. Today is the first day I haven't been in a fog. My sister was only 57 years old. Her death has deeply effected Randy, but he's still drinking heavily. He explained to me that if he doesn't drink he feels like a caged animal and that's no way to live. I guess my sister felt the same way about pills. It's very sad. It's strange how my sister's death has given me a stronger will to live but not Randy. This is something I have to accept. I'm trying to see good things in life. Glad you all are here. I feel as if I've been gone for quite a while.
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So sorry, Anna. :grouphug; :grouphug; :grouphug;
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Big big hugs Anna. So sorry about your sister and the ongoing situation at home but I'm glad that you're thinking of yourself too and trying not to lose sight of the good things. We missed you.
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Oh Anna, I am sitting here crying. You have been on my mind so much the past week. So I have been saying prayers for you and had no idea what a heartbreaking week you have had. I am so sorry about you sister. How is your Mom doing? You are having to take care of so many and emotionally handle so much. You are one of our good things in life and we are all glad you are in our lives. Be good to yourself. Get some rest. Again, my thoughts and prayers will be with you. I am very sorry for your whole family. We all love you here! :grouphug;
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Anna. I am so sorry for you and your family's loss.
You have my deepest sympathies.
I'm sorry too about your struggle with Randy.
My oldest brother was a diabetic and died right before the scheduled access surgery for dialysis.
He was an alcoholic but would not admit it.
I sometimes wish maybe if we'd had an intervention it may hae helped. always will wonder.
:grouphug;
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Thank you all.
This past week has been difficult but now things are settling down a bit. My mom is doing much better. She's had lots of attention from my kids, too.
It's very unreal, though. I think about life all the time--how precious it is.
We intervened with my sister 2 years ago when she almost died but she denied having a problem (like OB's brother) and left rehab after 3 days. Two months ago she was having a hard time and I tried so hard to help her realize how dangerous it was. We emailed a lot then---and she seemed to get better until last week when she got some new pills. She denied taking so many pills. When I got really honest with her about her problem she quit emailing me. She's had really bad problems with this for 10 years so it wasn't an unexpected thing---but it is still so very terrible and hard.
It's difficult and strange to be dealing with Randy and his thoughts about death and then my sister's death. I write about it a lot and that seems to help me. (Maybe I'll write a book like The Wife is writing.)
Paris, you said "get some rest" ----you must know about these things in life because rest is what I really need and crave more than anything. I know things will get better --- just don't know when but I'm fighting fighting fighting for life and good things. I still will not give up in case Randy changes his mind. I will still learn all I can about how to help him if he starts dialysis. But I always fear he will die like your brother, OB, before he even gets that far. I have to prepare myself for that, too. But how does one do that?
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I am so sorry to hear about your sister Anna. Losing someone so close is tough, and not being able to save them is even more heartbreaking.
Sometimes people just cannot face life on life's terms. It's brutal what Randy has been through. I imagine it's sometimes too much to bear.
Sending you {{{HUGS}} and for your mom and kids too. Take care.
:cuddle;
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I'm so sorry Anna, I don't know what to say so I'm just giving you a big hug :grouphug;. We are here for you and I hope that helps.
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Wow! The challenges in your life! We all wish we could just come and hug you and make all the sadness and anxiety go away. :grouphug; In the midst of all this please always remember that there is a family with members all over the word just rooting for you, sending caring thoughts and prayers your way.
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annabanana - How are you doing?
I hope things have gotten a bit better.
Just thinking of you! :cuddle;
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Sent a note to annabanana and she wrote back:
It's been pretty difficult lately with my sister's death and Randy's issues. I
haven't been online much but have thought a lot about you
all at IHD. Wishing I could get back to where I was when I
posted a lot on IHD, but am not there yet. Depressed, I
guess. Waking up and taking a step at a time. Give everyone my
love and good wishes.
............
Please drop her a PM if you get a chance.
:cuddle; Sending you some {{{HUGS}}} annabanana
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My thoughts are with you Anne, a burden shared is easier to carry... we will all be here when you are ready :)
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:grouphug; :grouphug; :grouphug;
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But I always fear he will die like your brother, OB, before he even gets that far. I have to prepare myself for that, too. But how does one do that?
OB,
The best way to prepare yourself for Randy's death is basic: Make an appointment with an attorney to go over both of your wills. Have insurance and benefits info ready and waiting in a folder. Create a "Who to call" list so when Randy does die, your support group can help overcome the shock. Most important of all: Remind Randy that it is yourself that has to tow the line when he's gone. Remind him that despite the fact he is reckless with his life, your plans for the future COULD include him should he choose. When he sees you're making preparations to continue living your life, he might recognize the hurt he's causing you.
God Bless you for sharing this.
Edited: Fixed quote tag - okarol/admin
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Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts.
Yesterday I took a big step and talked to Randy about how his doctors won't treat him if he's drinking and how I will be left with all of this in our lives when he dies. I told him he needed to understand that we need to get things settled for MY sake, before he dies. We talked over options and made some decisions. I feel so much better, knowing I won't be burdened with so much in the midst of dealing with his death.
I also created a "who to call" list (thank you, cabarle) and talked openly about what I intend to do after his death, which could easily include him, even excite him to the point that he might want to have a little hope.
At the end of this conversation he said if the doctor can give him hope of a 100% cure, he would go to rehab. I doubt if the doctor will say that, but he might give Randy enough hope to want to at least try.
Things are better. My deep and sincere thanks to all.
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So glad you guys had such a good talk. Could you maybe talk to Randy's Dr and ask him to fib just a little so Randy goes into rehab? I have had many "secret" talks with Otto's Dr and that way he knows how to talk to Otto. Sometimes there minds are just not in a good place and making decisions are not something they do well. Trying to get them help is just so hard when they forget how it will affect us left behind. My heart go's out to you. :grouphug; :grouphug;
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Fear of the unknown is the worst. I am glad you were able to get some things decided. It's tough to go through what you are experiencing, and the burden falls on you to keep juggling everything. I hope Randy realizes that he doesn't have to live the way he is, and that he can choose a different path, hopefully a step toward sobriety. Best wishes to you both. :cuddle;
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I have just read found this thread for the first time. You are a strong woman annabanana. I wish I had something wise to say. For now, please accept this :cuddle; :grouphug;
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:cuddle; :grouphug; :cuddle;
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here for you :-*
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Thanks for the hugs, everyone.
I have talked with both of Randy's doctors. His neph didn't say a word to him about it. The other day I told his GI that I didn't know where else to turn. And that it would be good if he could just tell Randy straight-out how dangerous it is for him to drink. His appt. is in 7 days. We'll see what happens then.
It feels good to be out of my depression, even if I am mad now at the whole situation. Sometimes being mad is so much better than the alternative! And I get more things done!
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Anna, the strength you are showing is amazing. Randy is very fortunate to have someone who cares so much and isn't just walking out. Getting things in order and letting him know that you will go on living might help him understand how much his decisions are hurting you. Keep taking care of youself. Like you, I get lots of things done when I am mad! Sending you love :grouphug;
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Oh, Paris, I can't tell you how many times I have seriously considered leaving. But I know if I left, Randy would totally give up. Right now I keep holding on to a last hope that he'll change his mind. I will probably hold on to that hope until the day he dies. Sometimes I'm not sure why I even have this hope because it's unrealistic, but I can't give up. Hope is such a necessary feeling.
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May you never give up hope, it's the one thing that keeps us all going when times get really tough..................hope and love and I'm sending you both :cuddle;
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At my request, Randy's GI talked to him about his drinking. He told R. he had to quit drinking, quit smoking, go to a substance abuse counselor, and try antidepressants.
At first Randy agreed to do all this, and I got my hopes up a little. But the day after the appt., he told me he was going to take the next 2 weeks to make a decision. He called his sister and told her everything, so I know he's not in denial anymore.
It's very sad, and I feel I have the strength to stand by him no matter what decision he makes. This is what I hope for now: strength.
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I'm sending you some strength AnnaBanana, although I think you already possess amazing strength. I'm also sending you some peace and calm. :cuddle;
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"Thinking about" it is a tiny step in the right direction. Does his sister have any influence? It would be good to have someone else help guide him to make the right decision. I can't imagine how scared he must be, facing so many challenges. Just starting on an anti-depressent could help him start to tackle the other problems. It is a very long road he is on. You are amazing for all the strength and love you give him. You have us here and we will help support you and give you any strength we can. Take some time for yourself during all of this. We worry about you, too. :grouphug;
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I hope that you will continue to discover that you are even stronger than you think you are. The hardest thing to do when the stress level is so high is to figure out what the right thing to do really is. Please be sure to do what is right for you, too. I hope that you are finding some peace in your garden. :cuddle;
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This is a strange road we're on. Randy is now eating the way he used to --- all the things he should NOT eat. But then he'll say he goes back and forth all day on the decision he has to make. Maybe he won't make the change...but maybe he's having one last week of doing the things he wants before he makes a drastic life change. It is disheartening, though, when he eats the high potassium foods. He says he hurts all the time and that beer makes him feel better.
We actually went out dancing on Friday night. We had a fantastic time. The next day I felt better about things. I feel that if he and I can have happy times then it's okay. I told him this and he was very grateful. I know he suffers when he sees me sad. It's been the most difficult thing I've ever had to do to accept his feelings and to watch him destroy his life. I'm still in the process of trying to get a new perspective on all this.
We have a new friend who is full of life. He and Randy get along really well and he's invited us to his farm to go fishing. I am hoping that this man, who has overcome a lot and been clean and sober for 15 yrs., can set an example for Randy. Maybe Randy will gain some hope in seeing first hand how another person can choose life and be happy. I can't help but think that this man was "sent" to us to help Randy make the right decision.
His sister will be a great help, too, both to him and to me. The day after he told her everything she called me and offered her help to me. She said she realizes how difficult it must be for me and I am very grateful to have her support. She has helped people in her family numerous times to deal with death. She's a beautiful person.
Thanks, everyone, for the well wishes. I am so very grateful for the support. And, yes, Pelagia, I find great peace in my garden. (We need a flower icon.)
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I have read the thread and while I agree alcoholism is a disease not a choice, I'm just sick to death on how SELFISH Randy is being! He is only thinking of himself it seems. You can support him, but wow, for someone to just give up on life like he is, and possibly leaving someone as good as you seem to be behind to clean up the mess?? That is not right. What he needs is a good dose of reality! Tell him to quit being a damn whiner and get up and START LIVING!
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When you live with an alcholic, you learn that it becomes their whole life. My Dad lost his health and his family, but the disease always won. He was a good man, but could not, even with all the help available to him, bet it. I don't think Randy is being a "whiner", but sometimes life, depression, disease is just too much to handle. Anna, you are giving him every glimmer of hope and I admire how you are dealing with the situation. I am glad his sister has offered to help you. And this new friend might be the answer. Especially, since he has sober for so long. I think about you two all the time. :cuddle; Take care of yourself!
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Alcoholism is a treatable disease, but the person has to make their own decision and choose to take action. Any efforts taken by friends and family members are often futile. But that doesn't mean that you cannot let them know how you feel. Sometimes it's better to accept the situation rather that expect change. That's why alanon is so helpful. It can help families of alcoholic get support for THEIR choice, which is to either live with and love the alcoholic who is still practicing, or to move on and make a different life without them.
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Okarol, you are so right. I went to ALATeens in high school. It helped me know I wasn't responsible and I couldn't change it. It does help to talk to others in the same situation----just like IHD!!
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Karen, I promise I have felt exactly like what you said. He IS being selfish, etc. But that's a tough one. In the face of his problems, it's so hard for him to leave the life he's led for many years and do what's needed for him to survive this...which is to drastically change. For him, I think, that would be like trying to be someone he's not. A fake life. Like Paris said, it becomes their whole life. Also, I think he needs comforting. And alcohol is the most comforting thing to an alcoholic. This is a fact that's been very hard for me to grasp.
This afternoon we met a man who has diabetes. This man told us that he was going to live his life the way he wants, drinking and being out in the sun and other things the doctors warn him about. He's just like Randy in what he says. It's so odd...to meet this man and then, in contrast, to think about our new friend who is sober. It's almost like God has put these 2 totally different men in Randy's life when he has such an important decision to make. They represent the two options he has. I pointed this out to Randy and he agreed. So that lets me know he's at least seriously thinking about the situation.
Karol, I have thought a great deal about moving on. But he is such a good-hearted man and he and I have truly become the greatest of friends during all this. Yes, he's very selfish. But sometimes that's okay.
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I guess maybe I jumped the gun, but if hes not willing to try , even a little bit, that to me just spells quitter. I am 23 years old and the youngest one at my unit, and there are so many times where I say to myself, okay no more, I dont want to lead this crappy life anymore, and I want to just quit treatment. I then say to myself, if I give up, what will my family be left with but misery and a dead daughter! My mother has cancer, infact shes had it 3 times, and this last time she truly was considering stopping her treatment, but the one thing that stopped her from doing so was us, her family! Randy needs to start thinking like a survivor, not a dead man walking! I am sure life is hard for him, and you, but thats no reason to push in his chips and give up. He needs to get some counseling and learn how to accept the help he is being offered! I know how it is by not wanting to talk to anyone and just be miserable, believe me I have been there, almost to the point of wanting to give up myself, but I know that if I give up, I would just be giving in to easily to my disease and I will NOT let this damn disease have me! Not now. I wish Randy would realize what he has to gain by trying, life can be great if you let it be.
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Thanks, everyone, for the well wishes. I am so very grateful for the support. And, yes, Pelagia, I find great peace in my garden. (We need a flower icon.)
Here it is - and this one is just for you Anna :flower;
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Karol, I have thought a great deal about moving on. But he is such a good-hearted man and he and I have truly become the greatest of friends during all this. Yes, he's very selfish. But sometimes that's okay.
You need to do what works for you. I support your decision to stay. My reason for mentioning alanon is because there are spouses who stay and spouses who leave. In alanon meetings you can find someone with a similar experience who will be helpful to you. No one can truly appreciate what you're going through except someone who has been in your shoes. I wish you all the best. The flower I added is for you.
:flower;
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:flower; :flower; :flower; :flower; :flower; :flower;
Thank you!
Karen, I agree so much with everything you said...and I wish Randy felt that way.
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this flower icon even looks like my avatar flower a bit.
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Anna this is a horribly tough time for you and it's very hard to know what to suggest except, like the others, to offer as much support as possible.
There's a guy who I reckon is like Randy in my unit. He eats whatever, he drinks whatever (though I don't think he touches alcohol)... he's a diabetic and thanks to his overweight situation and his CONSCIOUS DECISION to basically ignore his diet and fluid restrictions... well you know what? I look at this guy, he's only a few years older than me.. and I feel sorry for him. All he's doing is shortening his OWN life and making it worse in the long run. Oh yeah, I can understand his (and Randy's and the diabetic guy) point of view - I've got to deal with all this crap so I want to enjoy as much as I can. However it's short sighted in the extreme. This guy is going blind from his diabetes, and I am sure his labs are shocking (but I don't know) and well.. I hate to say it, but I can't see this person living a long life.. and of course he won't get anywhere near the transplant list the way he is treating his body.... Now you can tell him all this (and the staff do).. but he just ignores it.
In the end everyone is responsible for their own lives and how they lead them. I can certainly understand the "I want to enjoy things" idea... so many times I feel like "lashing out" and just drinking stuff all night etc... but I know that will make me happy for a few hours.. but could cause untold harm longer term (specially if it's something I did on a regular basis). I live with the goal to get a successful transplant and hopefully be able to return to a more normal life.
As for Randy... it's so hard because he probably can see the hurt and distress he's causing you and others around him, but he's probably fearful of making the changes he is being told he needs to make for his own good.
You have amazing strength and courage - bourne of love... and it is a beautiful thing to see.
I hope he can turn it around.. for both your sakes.
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RichardMEL, Thank you for the support. I am always hoping that Randy can turn things around. A sad part about all this is that he was sober for 8 months after his surgery last August. He claims he was miserable, but I didn't see it. I was so shocked when he told me a few months ago that he wanted to start drinking again. It didn't make sense. The only thing I can think of that made him give up is the fact that there was little chance that the HCV medicines would work, because of his failing kidney. The other thing is that he knew he would never be able to drink again, having HCV. Even with these things being true, I still can't understand why he is choosing this path. I would fight to the death, like you and everyone else here.
I wish so much that he had a goal like yours. I think that's the most important thing. It doesn't even have to be a "big" goal...just a goal to wake up happy and healthy every morning is beautiful.
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Anna,
I feel everyone is different... For some it's easier than others to focus on the positives in one's life and try to make the most of the negatives. As I said before I'm really not sure what to suggest to you. It must be so difficult for you both. I am sure deep inside Randy knows his choice is doing him no good, and he probably feels embarrassed by that as well. Sometimes admitting that kind of thing is the hardest part... and perhaps talking to his sister was a very positive step.
I just wanted to add that it's not always easy sailing for me (and I bet others too!)... just because I talk about having goals and not wanting dialysis to run/ruin my life etc... there are days I find it very hard indeed and I wonder what's the point and get down and so on. I think that's normal. Well it better be normal anyway!!! :)
I was diagnosed over 15 years ago so I had plenty of time to come to terms with the fact of my kidney failure and impending dialysis. Randy hasn't had that sort of lead time (I think you wrote he was diagnosed just last year?)... Either way it's a horrible shock to be told something like this. I know before I was diagnosed I didn't give my kidneys a second thought... and a fluid limit for me was because I didn't have any money to buy another drink :)
Everyone deals in different ways.
Just know we all support you Anna.
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Anna, I don't have any advice to offer, but I do want you to know that I am thinking about you and came to find out how things are going. :grouphug;
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RichardMEL, I think you have pointed out something very important: that Randy hasn't had time to process all this. So very, very true! I believe both Randy and I are still in a sort of shock about this. And because the research, when we find any at all, says that his options aren't good, we see "the end". So he gives up.
You have helped me to see things differently...to give Randy (and myself) more time to process this without assuming it's the end for him. I will somehow communicate this to him in the hope that it will ease his mind. I know he is, like you said, embarassed and feels weak, etc., because of his decision, so he fights even harder about his choice. What a horrible way to live.
You have changed my perspective on all this, RichardMEL, and I am deeply grateful.
Pelagia, thanks for thinking of me. :flower;
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Anna, RichardMEL is so very right. It took me over a year, maybe two before I got over the "I'm going to die" feeling. This site is really what changed my attitude and helped me be in control of my life again. Randy may feel like his whole world is spinning, he's received a bad diagnoses and why bother with anything. RichardMEL, your observation was excellent. It does take time to process all that is being thrown at you. Anna, we are all here for you and Randy. You are loved and admired by many :grouphug;
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Anna, as much as we the caregiver wants to make everything better we can't. One of the hardest things for me to do is sit back and give Otto time to process everything. He said once he would NEVER do Dialysis again and when he was told the time had come, he at first was saying NO. I as his wife and the mother of his 3 kids was heartbroken, how was I going to live with out him, how were my kids as they got older ever going to know just how much there dad loved them. Otto needed time, and thankfully I had my IHD family supporting me while I gave that to him and he changed his mind, and did what the Dr's said needed to be done. Randy will hopefully come around and until he does we are here, and if not please know your IHD family is here for you :grouphug;
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Thank you guys(& gals!) - I'm glad my observations are of some help :) (See, I do more on here than just flirt!!! :P)
I have spoken to some people who had acute kidney failure and basically had NO warning.. One minute they're feeling and aparently fine.. next minute they're in the hospital getting a catheter stuck in and told it's Dialysis or bust. I simply can't grasp how that would feel. I can only take from my own situation where, after a routine checkup when starting a new job, they told me I had protein in my urine and I needed to go see a specialist. Well that meant nothing to me and I was thinking "so what? There's some crap in my waste. who cares?" Well.. yeah.. so I went to this neph who was recommended. We (my mum and I) went in and the very first thing he said was "You've got 2 years" (!) no preamble.. no nothing. And I never did find out if he meant that was 2 years till dialysis or 2 years full stop. Basically this guy was a class A JERK and we gave him the flick and managed to get in with a top doc who my mum had worked with previously (and I am still seeing him some 15 years later). Now that "you have 2 years" thing was a REAL shock to my system (I showed him though! It was 13 years after that pronouncement that I eventually started dialysis). So during that time I had the ability to try and do as much as I could.. travel etc... while I could because I had a fair idea how restricted life would be once D day arrived.
But for those others who were basically told overnight BANG! Your whole life is changing.... that can be a massive, massive shock to the system and adjustment can take a long time.
I know everyone here is behind Randy and you Anna to get things on the right track! I am sending all my vibes over to Randy that he can somehow see what he is doing is only worse for him in the longrun, and that will affect Anna and the rest of the family and friends. Hoping the corner is turned soon!!! :)
Keep us informed Anna. I know it's a struggle but we're out here thinking of you. :cuddle;
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anna :bandance;
just thinking about you :-*
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Anna,
We're thinking about you and Randy, too! :flower;
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RichardMEL,
Yesterday I told Randy about you and your posts. He really listened to me. We both realized that we've been in shock since he was diagnosed with cancer last summer. Thought all would be well after the surgery, but found out about HCV the day after the kidney was removed. It's only been since January that we've known about his kidney failing. And then some time after that since we've known about the HCV medicines having negative effects on the kidneys.
Then the doctors, unlike your experience, didn't say much at all (until recently.) They really gave us nothing to go on. I think that's probably way better than what you went through, though.
So I told him, rather than focusing on the "crisis" aspects of his illnesses, we need to give ourselves time to get over the shock. Not deny, but try to focus on life rather than impending death. He really responded to this conversation. I hope it helps him like it's helped me.
RichardMEL, again a VERY grateful thank you!
Paris, yes, he is thinking "I am going to die soon" all the time. When he gets frustrated he says, "I don't have much longer." But just this morning he said, "In the fall I'm going to re-do the irrigation system in the garden." YAY! So maybe yesterday's conversation did some good.
Lola, yes yes yes, it's so very difficult to sit back. I actually said this to Randy yesterday, too, about how I am always taking care of him and telling him he needs to do this or that. I told him I was going to ease up on that because it just brings the situation closer, doesn't give us time to just relax. This weekend we are going to our friend's place out in the country to fish and relax. He's the sober friend I mentioned in an above post. I'm hoping this will be good for R. to relax and also see the example of a happy sober man who is full of life.
Twirl and Petey, thank you for the kind thoughts. (Twirl, I really like the way you write my name!)
I feel so good about this change of perspective. I think it will help a lot.
Anna :bandance; :flower; p.s. RichardMEL, you can flirt with me anytime!
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I think the road trip will do you both some good. I've been down basically the same road he has and I'm familiar with the feelings he is experiencing. It just takes some people a little longer to get over it. I accepted my fate and decided that I was make the best of it and I'm sure that, in time, Randy will too.
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Thinking of you and Randy too Anna. Hope you have a nice relaxing weekend. You really are inspirational in how open and understanding you are, especially for me who grew up with an alcoholic Dad and struggled for many years to come to terms with his choices and to reach a deeper understanding of his motivations. It is much easier to judge than to find compassion, but not nearly so useful. :cuddle;
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Anna, the fishing and getting away sounds great. One thing I notice with me, as soon as we leave town, I feel like I have left the disease behind. Now, my husband and I plan little day trips to things like the Botanical Gardens, over to the beach for the day--anything to change the scenery. It has really helped me. I knew I was doing better mentally when I started making plans, like Randy and the irrigation system. You both haven't had much time to process all that has been thrown at you. You are doing a great job at helping Randy accept what is happening. We are here for you! :grouphug;
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Flip, I, too, think R. will come to terms with this eventually. He's never been sick in his life and he's a real "tough-guy" type of man so I thnk it might be harder for him than for someone like me. The road trip will hopefully allow him to relax a bit, which he's not used to doing.
Monrein, it is much easier to judge, and I certainly did that for a while. Almost left, actually, many times. I still don't have a true understanding of Randy's need to drink...and it still hurts me sometimes that I'm "not enough"...but the key now is that I don't own his issues. That makes it easier for me to feel compassion for him.
Paris, I hope he feels like you do, leaving the disease behind. If so, I will plan many trips! (I actually asked him to go to Chicago IHD but we a broke...)
Thank you all for your support and hugs.
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I know exactly how he feels because I was the same way. I was never sick until everything hit me at once and I spent months feeling sorry for myself. I wish you all could make it to the Chicago meeting. I would enjoy meeting you and Randy both.
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I wish we could make it, too. My niece lives in Chicago, and I thought if we could drive up (from Nashville) and stay with her it would be so great!
I would so love to meet everyone! And how awesome it would be for Randy to meet you, too. Just knowing he's not alone would be so good for him.
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This is such an insightful discussion. One thing I always forget, because I tend to be really open with my feelings, is that others do a lot more internal processing. Do wish you could get Randy together with some of the fellows here at IHD!
:grouphug;
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Maybe we could get together sometime. I'm in Nashville quite a bit.
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Tell your hubby I need an irrigation system ripped out and one installed next fall, too. Can you send him my way?
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Thinking and praying for you and Randy Anna.
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:bandance;
My friends from where I worked always call me annabanana...how funny......RichardMel...I appreciate everything I read from you to anyone. It always seems to speak to many of us at the same time.
I am just over the year mark and still am fighting this like your husband and many times I am depressed and feel like I am somehow "broken" and can't be "fixed" and this seems to internalize everything and is what I am trying to move beyond although I don't look at the death card much but everyone feels something different and all we can do is be here for all.
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I think this thread has been very helpful to many of us. As Pelagia said, it has been very insightful. Thank you everyone for really opening up and sharing. Anna, I hope you and Randy are having a good weekend. :cuddle;
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I feel broke and unfixable a lot. But when my hubby reminds me he loves me still, it helps. Even when I grump at him and he looks at me with the puppy dog eyes, I remember I need to focus on the good, not the bad.
This disease really pulls a lot of crap on you when you least expect it. Learn to bounce.
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*big blush* thank you everyone (specially the ladies ;) ) for the very kind words. It means a lot to me that my rambling about my own experiences and thoughts are helpful to others. That's half the point of IHD in my view so I am very pleased to be able to offer something back to everyone here (specially the ladies >:D hehehehe)
Re: Feeling "broke" and "unfixable" - I think this is very interesting. Well the idea, not the feeling! In a way I haven't really felt that way with my kidneys. I guess a little. The thought of a transplant, while NOT (repeat NOT!) a fix, but certainly hopefully giving a much more normal lifestyle away from the machine and the diet and the fluid restrictions etc for hopefully some period of years(or more, the powers that be willing) offers real hope. I realise not everyone with CKD has this option so I am very greatful that hopefully someday I will get that call, and at least for the time I have it, everything will change (I fall asleep at night dreaming about large bottles of water... which is pretty sad I reckon! LOL). I think though because I have grown up with bad eyes and eyesight, if anything I've felt more "broken" about that so the kidneys was just well like another compounding thing (d'oh!).
I am adding Nashville to my list of places to visit post transplant. Randy, Anna and I can go out for a SODA!!! :) yee haw!
I think getting up to Chicago and meeting some IHD folks would be really beneficial to someone in Randy's situation. Just showing there are folks out there facing the same thing and living with it and getting on with it can inspire hope and a shift in viewpoint from "I'm going to die soon anyway so what's the point" to something closer to "I can live with this like these people and more I can start doing positive things for me and my family" - the power of example can be a good one. Besides if he's a "big tough man's man" shouldn't he face it like "a man"? I guess that's a whole different argument though.
PS: I like how Twirl writes too ;)
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We had a wonderful Saturday at our friends' house. But late Sat. night Randy got angry. At himself, no doubt. I don't know. Our friends said it was the alcohol. I think the good example that our friend set for Randy was too much for him. And, of course, he'd been drinking all day.
So we got home on Sunday and yesterday afternoon Randy told me to leave. I was so happy over the weekend and I think he feels as if he can't give me that kind of happiness. I really don't yet understand, but I think just my presence reminds him daily of the mistake he knows he's making. I think he feels incapable of changing.
I'm staying at my mother's house with no internet for a while. Once I get moved out and settled, I'll go to the library to get on the internet. I'm okay, but stunned right now. I feel like I've done everything in my power to make things okay. At least I am able to walk away with my head held high. I gave it my all and more. But I cannot fight for someone who has given up. So very very sad.
Thank you all for the support and love and hugs. I dearly love all of you. And I'll check in soon.
Anna :bandance; :flower; (my mom has a nice garden)
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Dear Anna, my dear friend, I am so sorry Randy did this. Right now, you need to take care of yourself. You have been strong during all of this. You have been the rock he could lean on. Maybe he needs to fall and see how hard it is to climb out of the hole when you are all alone. You can't save him from himself. You can save you and right now that is what is important. I am glad you are at your Mom's. Let her take care of you for awhile. You deserve for someone to pamper you. You are in my prayers. We are all here for you. PM anytime you need to. Sending lots of hugs :cuddle; and love.
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Anna, take care, I PM'd you, please call if you need to, best wishes and lots of hugs coming your way!
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I've PMd you too but please let us all know how you are when you can.
:grouphug; :grouphug; :grouphug;
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I'm so sorry, Anna. I don't think he has a clue about what he is facing. It's not very pleasant going through it alone and maybe he will wake up and realize that.
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Oh Anna, I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with this now. Please know how much we all care for both you and Randy but for right now you MUST be your first priority.
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Anna- I am so sorry about all of this! I cannot believe he told YOU to leave, after everything you have done for him, etc. He may have given up but don't let that stop you from enjoying your own life! You cannot help someone who is in that frame of mind and denial, there is just no way to help at this point. He unfortunately seems like he needs to hit rock bottom to get his wake up call. I wish you luck! :cuddle; :flower;
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Hang in there Anna, and PLEASE know that your IHD family is here for you. :grouphug; :grouphug;
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Anna sending you tons and tons of love and hugs from down under (but don't worry, they are still warm).
As the others have said Randy probably won't realise what he's done for a while... and he probably also won't realise just how much you did for him and how much he took you for granted.
Still, it's his decision.. and it is horrible to face but actually you leaving might well be just what he needs. And in a funny way, it may also be good for you. Just to get away from that environment where it is a constant struggle for YOU - caring for someone who doesn't care for themselves and taking it out on you etc.
I am still sorry this has happened right now... I hope though that in time there might be something positive to come out of this.
You have all our love and support. And even Randy... because he is taking the "easy" way out in my view - letting the drink take over because he finds "solace" in that to run from the reality of his (dreadful) situation. He'll soon realise that asking you, his loving and supportive partner, to leave is far worse than never drinking again.
My prayers and thoughts are with you at this time. Enjoy the garden and we hope to hear from you soon when you are somewhat more settled.
:cuddle;
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Oh Anna, this is so upsetting. I have been off line for a couple of days because of company visiting. I certainly didn't expect to read this news. I am so sorry that it has come to this. I hope that you are in your mom's garden giving your head a chance to clear.
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Sorry Anna. My heart goes out to you.
Sounds like your mother is very loving and I hope you get through this very tough spot.
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thinking of you today :flower;
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Anna, I know you aren't around a computer, but I still wanted to write and say I keep thinking about you. I'll keep saying prayers that you are ok. We all love you here and miss you. Take care, friend :cuddle;
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If I knew where she was I'd go check on her. I'm not that far from Nashville.
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anna :bandance;
thinking about you
hope you are okay
sorry
but know we care and we are here for you
:-* to you
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Gosh darnit you guys beat me to it.. the first thing I was going to do today was post in this thread to let Anna know I was thinking of her....
so I'll just add my accent to everyone else's (but you know mine's sexier, right? >:D :D)
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It's a matter of opinion, Richard.
Do you have tars on your car?
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I don't own a car......
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I think about you every day too Anna and hope you are OK :cuddle;
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Admins, is there a contact number just to check up on her to make sure she is doing ok? It is hard not to worry when things were so bad during her last posts.
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Just bumping this up. Anna you are in our thoughts.....
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I sent a PM last week, but haven't had a response. I just sent another one. :grouphug;
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I have contact info but she had stipulated not to call until 2 months went by with no word, so for now that's where we are. :-\
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Anna I hope you read these messages and know how much we all care about you. Stay safe :grouphug;
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Well karol at least you have a way to contact her and of course we must respect her wishes... it's hard when you know someone's going through a tough time and you just want to know she's doing ok.
I hope she manages to make it back here before that 2 months is up....
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It is hard not to worry when we know she is dealing with so much. Love you, Anna :grouphug;
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Two months suddenly seems like a very long time. It's only been two weeks. Anna, we're thinking about you!
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I wish anna :bandance; would post
she posted a picture of her family singing on my family
they look happy
I think the photo is current
days before the break up
please post anna :bandance;
we miss you
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I'm online (at a friend's house) for the first time in quite a while. When I read all these posts I cried. Thank you all for caring so much and sending love. You are all so beautiful. Thank you all for the pm's.
Randy and I are getting divorced. He's not doing well with his drinking so it's best I'm not there. We talk sometimes and it's okay mostly. He's not sharing any info with me about his doctors appts or how he's feeling. A friend who is a hospice worker told me that sometimes when people reach the end of their life they choose a different caregiver or none at all. So I respect Randy's decision. I'm okay with it. It's just difficult to not do anything to help him.
I'm really taking care of myself these days. I didn't realize how I'd sort of given that up...even though a lot of people (esp. here) told me to. Now I'm focussed on my own health and it's great. I see friends a lot, too. Everyone is happy that I'm gone from the situation with Randy. I'm looking for work where I live now so it won't be too much longer before I have internet access and can check in more often. I wish I had time like I used to --- I know I'll have a LOT of catching up to do when I have more time. I miss all of you so much and think about you all the time.
RichardMEL, regarding your sexy accent --- one of my best friends is from New South Wales and she says her accent gets her in many doors!
A lot of love and many hugs to everyone.
Anna
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I'll try to post again on Monday. :flower;
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It's so nice to hear from you, Anna, and to know that you're making the best of a bad situation. Please continue to take good care of yourself, and know that we are all thinking about you and wishing you the best. Hope to see you back here soon! :cuddle;
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:cheer: hello Anna :bandance; :cheer:
hope you find employment soon
and miss you
keep :boxing;
love
twirl
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Thanks for posting and keeping us in the loop Anna. I'm sure this is a really hard time for you but you sound as if you have a good attitude about things and that will be your best ally. Also terrific that you're now taking care of Anna herself. We miss you here and look forward to when you're back on line more regularly. :cuddle;
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Great to see you back, Anna. If I can do anything to help, let me know. I'm not that far away and I do have a few business contacts in Nashville who might be able to help with the job situation.
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Anna,
You have done the right thing. Now you can take care of yourself and move on with life.
Things will get better and better for you now that you've committed to making change.
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Anna, just for you. :flower; :flower; :flower; :flower; :flower;
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It is really good to hear from you Anna. You are in our thoughts every day. :grouphug;
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Hi Anna, good to hear from you - as youcan tell we have been worried. I am sorry about the way things have worked out but pleased that you are felling better and looking after yourself. You have done all you can for Randy, I know you'll never stop caring but now it's time to start living your life. God bless both of you in your own separate lives. :bunny:
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Dear Anna, how wonderful to read your post. You have been greatly missed! I am glad you are surrounded by family and friends and that you are taking care of yourself. Let us know how the job situation works out. Post when you can. We love you! :grouphug;
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Anna,
So wonderful to hear from you and see that you are doing well in the midst of trying circumstances. It is sad that you are divorcing Randy but in a way it is probably the best for you. It seems that he has chosen a path to take and it's not one that includes you... and it seems the way he is going it may not be too pretty for him - but that is HIS choice.
I absolutely support you looking after you. You have been through so very much emotionally, physically, mentally and now I think you need time for YOU....
lots of hugs and love and look forward to hearing more from you when you are more settled, in a new place & job etc.
it must be a tough time for you. *lots of hugs* :cuddle:
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Anna,
Miss you :grouphug; :grouphug;
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thanks, everyone! I'm at a friend's house today until I pick my son up at school. It's good to have access to a computer for a while. I can catch up a little with everything happening with all of you.
Randy and I are able to talk on the phone now. We have trouble seeing each other but that's normal, I think. I asked him about his doctor appts. he had scheduled last week and he said he rescheduled them. I'm not sure if he'll even go anymore, which is not surprising.
He told me he didn't have long to live and so he was going to be really selfish for the rest of his life...which I totally understand...but it does not include me because I hurt so much about his decision to drink. I understand how it would be very difficult to live with someone that you know deep down is hurting over things you do, no matter how much they respect you, you still know how they feel.
I strongly feel that it's the right thing for us to divorce. But I'm glad we can talk without anger. And I have finally stopped taking responsibility for all this...in realizing fully what RichardMEL says: that it's HIS CHOICE.
I got to spend the weekend at a friend's cabin. It was like a retreat. It was very beautiful and perfect company, so I feel really good. We built a beautiful birdhouse and jumped in the river to cool off and ate really well. Now that's taking care of myself!
Twirl, I LOVE the new cheerleader icon! That's got to be your special icon!
Flip, thank you so much for letting me know you have Nashville contacts. I will pm you.
:bandance; :flower; :grouphug;
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:flower; Love you anna!
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:waving; Hi Anna. Thanks for the update and glad to hear you're doing OK. Miss you and think about you often.
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Sweet Anna I cried reading your post. I am not even quite sure why. I think maybe because I am trying to imagine how you must feel through all this - specially the thought that Randy is basically ending his life. On his terms perhaps, but still.... Just reading it and thinking about it *I* feel helpless somehow.. And I know that is ridiculous, but there you have it.
However, as I wrote weeks ago it is his choice... as heartbreaking as it is. I guess at least he recognises this since he's decided to be "selfish" now.
Still your time away and jumping in the river and stuff sounds really nice.... and at least you can talk to him...
I wonder, perhaps, and I hesitate to bring this up, but I have a feeling... as hard as it may be.. you may want to try and see him in person at least once more. How do I put this.... to settle things? Say anything you might want to say and not leave unsaid once it's too late?
I can't imagine how difficult that sort of thing might be to contemplate, but it might be something you might want to consider for the future.
We are all here for you Anna and care about you hraps :grouphug;
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:flower; :cuddle; :flower;
Anna, it is so good to have you back posting.
RichardMel's suggestion about closure is a good one, but it may be very difficult to do that in person. You could also consider writing your thoughts in a letter that you can mull over for a bit and then give to Randy.
love and hugs, Linda
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Hi Anna, the cabin get away sounds like just what you needed. It is hard to add anything after RichardMel. He writes so well and gives such heart felt advice. How is your son doing? Is all of this affecting him? He is lucky to have a strong Mom like you. My strong Mother made me who I am today. Remember you are constantly in our thoughts. We all love you :grouphug;
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Richard, it is not ridiculous...you are feeling what I'm feeling: helpless. It's odd --- because in one way it's good that Randy is doing what he's doing -- and in another way it's terribly horrible and wrong. It's a situation I have absolutely no control over. And I will eventually lose him forever. Thank you for suggesting closure --- and seeing him. I've told him for months now that I don't want harsh words between us ever again. I don't think I could handle having our last words be bad in any way.
The other day he told me I was the only woman he has ever loved. He might already be starting a closure process. It was heartbreaking. I've said a few things to him, too, so maybe we are both starting to do that.
I asked him yesterday if he would call me if he was hospitalized and he said he didn't know. Said he didn't know anything. Very sad. But all I can do is respect his wishes. That's a hard one for me to think about. So closure might be the very best thing.
It's good to be back, Linda! I have missed everyone a lot. :grouphug;
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Paris,
thanks for asking about my son. He's doing really well. He's almost 13 and loving school. Glad to be at my mom's house where he has buddies close by. I know he's glad to be out of the tense situation at Randy's and he's glad for me. He did not approve at all of Randy's decision, of course, and has a hard time understanding it. So he's glad we left.
Love to you, too. :cuddle;
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I wrote the closure letter this morning. It just flowed right out of me. Even if I never give it to him, it's such a GOOD thing for me! But I know I will give it to him. I think it will be great for him after he gets over the initial ...what? sadness? ... I don't know. It's hard to put a name to this feeling.
The letter is a love letter and a thank you letter.
I love Richard for suggesting it and Linda for suggesting letter-form.
:flower; :flower; :flower; :flower;
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anna :bandance;
thinking of you all the time
remember I care about you
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Anna,
You amaze me - I am so glad this flowed for you and at the very least (as you realise yourself) it has helped you to get feelings and thoughts off your chest. I am glad if you will give it to him though. I think it's important he gets the opportunity to understand (or at least know) how you feel about this situation and have felt for the last few years going through everything.
This sounds selfish somehow but I am so glad you are back on here more regularly. In a way I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to distance yourself from a site like this - afterall the very name must just bring you right back to thoughts of Randy and what he is going through - and by extension yourself - so I thank you for being so strong to come back here and share your difficult journey with us.
You are a wonderful soul and I hope deep down somewhere Randy realises just how special and rare you are - for your love, your dedication, your caring and ultimately your strength and will to leave him to his choices and his destiny. I admire you.
You know where I am if you need anything....
xoxo richard
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thank you Twirl :cheer: and Richard :beer1;.
I left the letter yesterday at Randy's house. It felt good.
At 8 pm he called me and wanted me to watch something on tv that he was watching...thought I'd like it....I asked him if he'd read my letter and he said he had. Said he'd written me back and had read it 5 times to make sure it was okay. Then he brought up the tv show again. It was strange.
I guess he won't face such intense emotion right now and I don't blame him. Or maybe he's relieved that I said all those things and now he feels comfortable enough to call me as a friend.
I got his letter this morning and it was short and loving. I'm really the only real friend he's got so it must be hard for him to say goodbye. Maybe he never will...and that's okay. I've said what I wanted to say and it feels good.
Richard, I've wondered how I would feel about coming back to IHD...and I want to say that I feel like part of a big beautiful family here. The love and support we have for each other is one of the most beautiful things I have ever experienced. Someone here in the recent past said something about how brave I was to share what's been going on with me and how my experiences might help others in the future. I would so hope that my words could help others.
And, truly, I cannot even imagine NOT coming here. My reasons have just changed, that's all. I come here because of love. And maybe my knowledge and experiences will help someone here someday.
Thank you for your very kind words.
Anna :bandance;
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:grouphug; sending you a lot of love :grouphug;
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Rose, :grouphug;
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Anna, we need you here so much. I think RichardMel should become a counselor because the support and encouragement he has given you is the best I have ever heard. The letter was a brilliant idea and it seems to have given you peace. You are doing an amazing job of walking through this new phase in life. I am sure it can't be easy. We are here for you -- all the time :grouphug; :grouphug;
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*blush* Paris... that is so kind of you to say. I'm not sure what to think. My mother, who was a chief Social Worker, would be so proud I am sure. The irony is that of the 3 children in my family, I would have been considered the least likely to follow down that route - and indeed I work in IT as a computer geek!! My older brother is the (professional) Social Worker who followed in mum's footsteps.
I think though that I write from the heart and what I feel and when I think about a situation I try to look at it from the perspective of those involved as well as hopefully an unbiased viewpoint. Of course my aim is always to help, but in the end anything I write is just an opinion and it's just as valid as anyone else's.... though I definitely apprieciate the compliments and vote of confidence. My ego is now bigger than my fistula!!!!
:shy;
Now on to the most important thing - Anna....
I am glad he reacted positively to your letter - that can only be good - for both of you. I imagine it is much easier because decisions have been made and actions carried out (as in, you are not there 24/7) - in some ways a great burden must have been lifted from both of you - not to suggest you don't care about Randy any less now or anything like that - but as you come to terms with what has happened and where you both are headed I am sure there would be less of a feeling of both responsibility on your part (because HE is responsible for what happens to him through his choices) and the feeling that you could be doing more, or something. I am not writing this well I know!! Probably Randy feels more comfortable to just virtually "hang out" with you (eg: the TV show thing) because he probably feels so much less pressure from you to not drink, to see the doctors, to do the "right" thing etc etc... I am sure he feels more free now that he has made his choices and is going on that way.
I am reminded, somewhat, of my own mother's choice when she was dying several years ago. She did not want to be tied to a machine "living" and so at the point where it was clearly hopeless she had the courage to say no to more invasive and uncomfortable treatment and to go out on HER terms. During those last few weeks I saw a new serenity in her - a comfort with the choice SHE had made. She was at peace with her decision and what was happening. She spent those last weeks with us organising what she wanted (eg: funeral and beyond) and while it was eerie and difficult for us to sit with her knowing there was only a little time left, and discussing things like what arrangements she wanted... I was comforted knowing it was what she wanted.
Anna, I imagine you must feel some measure of peace now that you have written and given him the letter and know he has read it, and got a response. I feel sad in a way that he feels you are the only real friend he has... but what a friend to have!! I am sure it was bittersweet in a way to get such a loving letter when what you've had to endure over the last while has seemed so at odds with that. At least, whatever happens in the next few months or more... you both have an understanding and a peace of sorts.
I am glad you feel OK to come back here. It would be a more barren place without you and yes, we ARE a big loving family... and at least from my point of view I would miss you terribly. You have shared so much with us and I am sure your experiences have helped others, and will do so in the future. You have shown so much courage in sharing, and going through everything... I admire you.
I wish we all could have best friends /carers like you. :cuddle;
Just one request - if you keep giving me beers I'll be fluid overloaded AND at your mercy (are you just trying to get me drunk to have your way with me???? hehehehehe) :)
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just checking in Anna and sending you a :cuddle;
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Pelagia, :cuddle; thank you.
Paris, you are so right about RichardMEL. He has a true and beautiful gift. He is an empath, no doubt. And so wise.
The letter HAS given me peace of sorts. It has become like a base for me to land when things get tough. It has grounded me. Last night Randy called. We talked for a short while then his mood changed...told me he didn't want me around at all anymore. So I asked him to stop calling me (again) and he promised to stop. It's just too painful. I think we just need time not seeing each other or talking. Maybe in a few months we'll be able to talk again. Maybe not. I've recently taken on the attitude of "it's okay." Everything's going to be okay.
Richard, I, too, think Randy is more comfortable now and "free" of a burden, as I am trying to be. You wrote about his letter being at odds with everything else going on...so very very true!!! Everything is a rollercoaster. I guess that's the main reason the letter is so important. Slows the rollercoaster down a bit.
What an amazing story about your mother. I know it must've been so unreal...but beautiful, too. I experienced a similar situation when my father passed on. We all knew he didn't have long...and he lasted 3 months with very little heart function. But during those 3 months we all got to say our goodbyes. It was an amazing gift.
Again, thank you for such kind and loving words.
And, BTW, I promise...no fluid overload!...
but it DOES sound fun if you were at my mercy! >:D >:D >:D :rofl;
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I am starting to feel like this thread is becoming all about me and that's baaad.
I think the call you had last night Anna really sums up the rollercoaster - one minute he's being nice and friendly (with the TV show thing) and writingg you a short, but love filled letter, then the next it's "I don't want you around anymore" - rollercoaster indeed... and not easy for both of you. I imagine, not that I know Randy or anything, that it's really a reaction to stress and pain. I bet he feels guilt and responsibility for hurting you and pushing you away (everything up to and including asking you to leave). You send him a clearly caring and loving letter so he knows you still care... I imagine that sort of thing would be creating a bit of turmoil in him hence the "let's be friends" then "stay away" - I imagine despite his promise not to call, you will hear from him again - perhaps sooner than you expect. He's said you're his only friend, so he really *has* nobody else to reach out to, and I feel he will still need that.
You need to be strong during these times. I am sure your heart is torn too... and when you don't hear from him perhaps you will be wondering what he is doing and how he is going. These are very powerful feelings - specially when you love someone so very much.
And please... please..... for the love of humanity... never again suggest I am wise!!! I am just a guy stuck upside down (well you know, being down under and all) trying to find some way through life. Heck if I was wise I'd be tucked up in bed in my mansion next to my loving wife.... uh yeah... lol.... As I said earlier.. I just write it as I see it.
As for being at your mercy Anna... I'll take that one to PM!!!!! >:D
:shy;
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I expect to hear from him too even though he promised not to call. I plan to let my answering service pick it up...if I can have the strength to do that.
There is one good thing: our studio apt.(attached to the house) is rented to a good friend of ours who has promised to call me if he sees anything unusual. I'm grateful for that. Means way less worry for me.
Richard, even though you are not in a mansion next to your wife, you are still very wise.
To be able to see where other people are and to give such beautiful advice in such a loving way, that is wise. You have helped me in a giant way to make my life so much better.
See you in PMs.
:cuddle;
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RM. That wife would be a very lucky girl and no mansion required. You're such a good guy. :cuddle;
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Anna, every day seems to bring you more strength. I hope you can feel all our supporting arms around you as you go through this. :grouphug; How's is school going for your son?
RichardMel, your Mother would be so proud. You are such a caring, sensitive person. And your are wise. You can see clearly and give positive, constructive advice. So, now, tell me: how to find good men for my two daughters! One works almost exclusively with the gay community and the other keeps going on marvelous adventures -- both are good things. But where is a guy like you for them here in North Carolina? :rofl; Please keep sharing your thoughts. I always look forward to your posts. :cuddle;
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Hmm Paris, send me full resumes and pictures and I'll let you know my movements.... well if Anna will let me go that is! heheh. It's funny you mention North Carolina... that reminds me of a funny experience I had back in 1994 (!) It was my first trip to the United States. I was working as a volunteer at a Conference/Expo in Vegas. So anyway I was chatting to some guy about something technical and he suddenly says (in a southern drawl) "Say, you're not from around here are you?" and I smiled and said no expecting him to ask if I was from England or maybe even get it right and say Australia. Well what does he then say? "Are you from NORTH CAROLINA????" I just looked at him and started laughing hysterically! I couldn't help it and I didn't mean to be rude but it I found it the most absurd notion! I did apologise to him and explained that Australia was a very long way from NC. Then I felt bad for laughing!
And to this day I've still never been to NC.. hmm do y'all sound like aussies??? LOL
Thank you all for the compliments.. I am red from blushing.
Anna I am glad you have a family friend "looking out" for Randy. That would ease your fears that he was totally alone. I am sure also that Randy knows he can seek help via your mutual friend if he needs it. So that's good.
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just checking it to give you a :cuddle; and a :flower;
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Anna will be squished from all our supportive cuddles :)
I love that about the IHD community. We are all there for eachother and that's very important - specially when facing the sorts of things we do. It's very special.
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Yep, and that's a good thing.
I was watching the butterflies in my garden this morning and noticed that one of them was happily fluttering from flower to flower even though a part of its wing is missing. I took a picture. It's the wing towards our right that is missing it's tip.
This photo is for you Anna!
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Wow! That picture is fantastic!! Very well taken!! I bet Anna will love it when she sees it :) :) :)
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It's so great to come back here and find these wonderful posts! :grouphug;
Paris, thanks for asking about my son. He's doing great. Kids can certainly feel tension even though we try to protect them from it. I think he feels from me the intense relief and so he's a lot happier. He's become very protective of me...Guess he feels like the "man of the house" now!
And you are so right about Richard. I am so glad he is on my side! And his mother would be very very proud.
Richard, you come visit me in TN and we'll do a road trip to NC to meet Paris and her daughters! Then we'll check out how much you sound like them! :rofl; (Some people think my friend here from Australia is from New England. :))
Linda, THANK YOU for the beautiful photo of the butterfly!!! That made my morning!
I love you all. :grouphug; :grouphug; :grouphug;
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:flower; Always great when you check in Anna. Stay well and take good care.
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thank you, monrein. (i LOVE your new photo!)
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We love you, Anna! :grouphug; You have a loving fan club here!
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ooooh a road trip with the lovely Anna to visit Paris' daughters.... omg my blood pressure is rising.... umm... nurse... hello??? I think I've got a small problem here... pant... pant.... CODE BLUE!! CODE BLUE TO DIALYSIS STAT!!!!
>:D :oops;
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Richard...you are one very silly man! :rofl;
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RichardMel, you brighten my day! I think we need to clone you. We need more men on this earth that are exactly like you :cuddle;
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RichardMel, you brighten my day! I think we need to clone you. We need more men on this earth that are exactly like you :cuddle;
You just want one of me for each daughter... and a spare... right?
Gawd the concept is scary on so many levels.....
you know I think we need a different thread for this silliness... it's detracting from the main point of this thread.. which is Anna (& Randy)....
(I am glad to brighten people's days though.. that is pleasing :) )
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The point is that you, RichardMel, are a marvelous source of support and comfort. Anna knows she can come here and find comfort, wisdom and love. You are one good example of why this is the best site on the internet.
Anna, we are keeping you in our prayers. May each day be just a little easier than the last. :grouphug;
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The point is that you, RichardMel, are a marvelous source of support and comfort. Anna knows she can come here and find comfort, wisdom and love. You are one good example of why this is the best site on the internet.
Anna, we are keeping you in our prayers. May each day be just a little easier than the last. :grouphug;
Thank you for prayers, Paris. Today is a bit easier than yesterday but we're still on the rollercoaster. Randy and I have started talking again. I try to keep it calm but when he is drunk he wants to be argumentative. He tries at the beginning of each conversation to be nice but it typically goes downhill pretty fast. So sad. He's frustrated and upset in general. I guess we'll go through this for a while. At least I have said all the important things already.
I think it's a beautiful and appropriate thing that this thread has become what it is regarding RichardMEL. I truly DO find comfort, wisdom and love, esp. from RichardMEL. And to have this thread be a place to brag on him is so very good!
Regarding Richard's clones...one for each daughter and a spare...but I get the original, >:D right?
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Yes, Anna, you get the original because if anyone deserves a guy like our dear Richard, it is you! :cuddle;
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Looks like Richard has become the "Don Juan of Dialysis". I wish I had his charm. :guitar:
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Hey Flip, why wish for RM's charm (of which, BTW, I'm a huge fan) when you have the market cornered on your own brand of quirky, funny charisma??? You're great, as is. :flower;
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Flip you've got it in spades... mine is just virtual since the locals don't seem to want a bar of the real thing. Who knew I was "New Coke" ???
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You've got the sexy accent that women love. I talk like Larry the cable guy and act like him too. Life on IHD would be dull without you, RichardMEL.
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Nobody here knows if my accent is sexy or not... well Lucinda does, but she's a "local" so I doubt my voice is of interest or at all unique to her! hehe
ANYWAY!! ENOUGH ABOUT ME!!!
This thread has gone so waaaay off topic I am starting to get embarassed....
please... this is about depression & drinking (and in particular Anna & Randy)... can we try and get back on topic (or I will get depressed and start to drink!!!)
:boxing;
;D
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Richard, I can be depressed and drink if it helps keep us on the right topic :rofl;
Anna, I hope you know we all love you and maybe our silliness can make you smile a little. We do know it isn't a funny subject and we would never to anything to be disrespectful to your situation. We are here for you all the time :cuddle; :grouphug;
Flip, you don't need the accent. You are one of the most intelligent men I have ever met. I am amazed at how much you know about everything. Women think brains are sexy - ask Donna. I bet she agrees!
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Anna just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you :grouphug; Glad things are going well with your son also. Trying to deal with someone with a drinking problem is so hard because of the highs and lows, just know you have done everything to try to help Randy and that this is now his choice regardless of how crazy it is. Being the care giver can be so hard at times since sometimes they choose things we don't agree with, although Otto better make the correct choices or :Kit n Stik; and then off to Richard I go :-* Hang in there :grouphug;
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Anna I just wanted to hark back to your comment about your latest call(s) with Randy - that he's nice at first then it degenerates. That is a sad facet of the booze I guess. I guess in a way it would relax him enough to feel comfortable to try and talk to you nicely, but then it sets in and provokes more negative feelings (unfortunately). That would be difficult to handle - but as you say you've said what you have wanted to say already. Unfortunately I don't think trying to explain that behaviour to him will do any good and just cause some (more) resentment. I guess though you are working out how to handle those situations. Try to not let it affect you too much.
I'm also sorry your son has been affected by what's happened. I remember when my parents divorced over 20 years ago. I was 13-14 and I realised how it was and that it actually was a good thing... I think you mentioned somewhere your son was 11 or so (is that right?).. perhaps in time he will understand more. At least he is happier to be out of that uncomfortable environment though I am sure it would also be very difficult seeing (and knowing) what is happening to Randy. You mentioned in another thread you also had a daughter? How is she handling things? how old is she?
Anyway hope things are going OK....
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hey filpBob
we women down here think the Cable guy is the dude
we love his way of talking
and you do not need RichardMel's anything---YOU HAVE YOUR VODKA
RichardMel is RichardMel and FlipBob is Flipbob
different but loved the same
and then there is Sluff and that is a whole other post
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You guys are so funny!!! :rofl; :rofl; :rofl; I only have a minute (on a friend's computer quickly) but I wanted to say that I am not at all offended by the funny "depressed and drinking" comments, Rose. I laughed so hard...and I need a good laugh always, as Richard DonJuan of Dialysis knows! :rofl; :rofl; :rofl; Gotta go but wanted to say I love you all! :grouphug;
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ahem... I have the odd medicinal vodka too you know. I have vanilla flavour in the fridge right now.
You know the D nurses always tell me "drink spirts rather than beer - more bang, less fluid!" but in contrast to the main topic of this thread it's definitely only a little bit every so often. Too much of anything is bad... and yes that includes flirting!
- Don Ricardo
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Anna - just checking in to give you a :cuddle;
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My vodka is very limited too, Richard, due to the Hep C. I still like to flirt though.
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I'm finally at a computer for a few hours. I've been working and going home, where I don't have internet yet. I've really missed you guys. But things are so much better and calmer. Working every day helps.
Been talking to Randy briefly now and then and there's not been much negativity. I don't answer his calls after 7 pm because I know he's drunk. He leaves ugly messages and I never acknowledge them. This seems to work really well.
He's still taking his meds, I guess. I see them but he won't talk about anything like that with me.
RichardMEL, my 23 year old daughter went to Australia about 5 years ago with a group of students and fell in love with the country. When I told her I'd been talking to you she said you needed to come visit and take her back to Australia with you! I told her you probably would, seeing that you are, after all, Don Ricardo... :rofl; So you might have your pick between me, my daughter, Paris, either of her 2 daughters, and Lola (if Otto messes up.) I have another daughter but she's married to an Italian... 8)
And the ones you don't pick, well, we'll just go see Flip! >:D (and take Twirl :cheer: with us!)
:cuddle; back to you, Pelagia. :) :) :)
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Hey Anna, it's always so nice to hear from you. You sound great and I'm so glad.
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Anna, It is good to see your post. Routine helps to get life back on track. You are doing such a great job of putting your life back together.
So, in the chat room the other night, RichardMelt-my-heart discovered that AlohaBeth left her heart in France with a Moroccan hunk, so I offered to adopt Richard! So, you youngest daughter may have taken a giant lead in the search for a girl for our Romeo! :rofl; (don't tell Sluff about AlohaBeth and the Moroccan--he doesn't know he has competition!)
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I think I'm a bit old for a 23 year old.. she'd think I was almost old enough to be her father... ugh :(
Anna I like the way you have handled things with Randy. Acceptance of his decisions and finding a way to deal with it on your terms (eg: not accepting/responding to calls after 7). I guess if he were in real trouble and called you at night that wouldn't be so good, but you have the family friend there to look out for him, and he can always call 911 etc if it's a real emergency so I think that's fine. I think it's good that you've found some coping mechinisms to deal with the way he acts and at least when you do talk it's mostly positive - which I am sure is good for both of your stress levels and emotions.
Again good to hear from you with an update!! :)
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Sounds like you're really doing good, Anna. I'll PM you later with an update on the deal we talked about.
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I logged on at a friend's house to check on Twirl and the others in Ike's path. Been worried.
Thanks Flip!
Things are still the same with Randy. I often think I need more closure, though. It's an odd situation. /still feel like a caregiver in some respects.
Must go but thanks for being here with me always. I'll check in as soon as I can.
Praying for our Gulf friends. I know about this type of thing. My grandmother's home, my roots, got blown away in 1969 by Hurricane Cammille in Gulfport, Miss. Devastating.
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Anna just wanted to send you a :cuddle; I'm so glad your still able to have a good outlook on things hang in there girlfriend
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Sending you hugs Anna... you know you're in our thoughts....
:grouphug;
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:bandance; Banana dancing for you Anna. ;D
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Today is Randy's and my anniversary. It's sad. But things have changed a little. A few days ago he called me and talked for a while about how he's feeling. He said he hurts all the time, mostly muscular. He kept his appt. with his urologist. The dr. asked where I was and Randy said I was working...didn't tell the dr. about us. He also said he was getting blood work done on Tues. This is the first time in almost 2 months. I offered to go with him but he said he didn't need me to go.
I would like to be able to have a decent relationship with him. Maybe continue to be sort of a supporter/caregiver in ways. Like I could check in every other day, or whatever would work for Randy. Maybe he'll go for that idea. I'm thinking that's what's been happening anyway in a weird way. With all the negativity of separating involved, it's hard to tell.
I don't want to get my hopes up...but I know it's the right thing for both me and Randy. It just feels right. So maybe if I handle it well, he will be okay with it. It sure feels better to me to be able to do something for him, even if it's just listening and caring.
Thanks everyone, for hugs and good thoughts. :flower;
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Anna, we are here supporting you in any decision you make. My daughter has hard time every year on the wedding anniversary. Not that she would change things, but it is sad to remember when things were good and you were happy together. You're always in my prayers, especially today. Sending lots of hugs :cuddle; :grouphug; :cuddle; :grouphug;
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I can imagine it would be so difficult on an anniversary (or around a birthday) - much more so than regular days to handle things. At least Randy has reached out to you in a way, so perhaps time and distance is working for you both to find a common ground that you are both comfortable with in terms of giving and accepting - I imagine that's the hardest thing in ANY seperation - and made so much harder in a situation like this. The fact that he's sharing with you is good.. perhaps not so good that he lied to the doctor about his seperation - but some people like to keep things like that private. In a way it would probably be good for the doctors to know you're not with him anymore in terms of his support structures at home.. but if that's his decision not to share that with his doctors I guess one has to respect that.
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RM is right and it sounds to me like you two have started a dialog of sorts and communication is so very important in any relationship, whether together, seperated or long distance and others. Just do what feels good "for" you and the rest will come.
Ann
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A lot has happened. Randy called me at 5:30 a.m. yesterday telling me he was in the hospital. He had driven himself to the ER at 10 pm the night before. He said he had pneumonia. Also an abnormal EKG. I went staight there and stayed with him all day. After all the meds they gave him and all the testing, the doctor said it wasn't pneumonia, that it was fluid build-up in his lungs and heart, that he had congestive heart failure. That's the reason he had pressure in his chest and could not breath.
The doctor told him he needed to stay another day and get an echo, and other heart testing, but he refused. No one could make him stay. He promised the doctor he would schedule one through his neph. He has an appt with his neph today and I'm going with him.
The hospital doctor told him he really needed to keep his promise, and she said, "You don't want to go on dialysis right now, do you?"
He was prescribed more BP meds and a diuretic...but I don't think the diuretic can handle all the beer he drinks. All his numbers were bad, but not super bad. I'm just scared that he'll keep drinking a lot and that it won't be long before the next episode like this.
On the other hand, I am so grateful that he wanted me there. He was scared. I was scared, too, but I wouldn't have it any other way. At least I don't feel helpless.
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Just talked to Randy's neph's nurse. She reacted very strongly to the news about R. being in the hospital. Now I'm really scared. I'm afraid that dialysis won't work for him because of all the alcohol. I go from thinking I'm over-reacting and that he'll be fine...when I know he won't be. It's very hard to think he'll die. But I also know it's his choice. I knew this all along.
Thanks for letting me rant. I don't know what I'd do without all of you. :cuddle;
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I know this must very hard for you. :cuddle;
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Anna,
This is a very frightening turn of events. I hope your husband will follow up with the doctor regarding his health as the emergency room doctor asked. I also hope maybe this will be your husband's "wake-up" call regarding his drinking and his health. Stay strong. But remember he makes his own choices and you can't control what he chooses. This must be very hard for you.
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Anna I'm sending you so many :cuddle; :grouphug; :cuddle; :grouphug; Hang in there :flower;
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Anna, it's what you've been worrying about all along coming into focus. I send you big hugs and all my extra strength. :cuddle; :grouphug; :cuddle;
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Anna,
I think Randy probably needs to start dialysis if he can't give up the beer. It's not necessarily the alcohol but the volume of fluids that he is taking in. Give him your support because you still love him and he needs to realize the seriousness of what is happening.
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Anna, I don't have the right words right now. :grouphug; I just wish I was closer and could help. We are all surrounding you with love, support and prayers. Stay strong :cuddle; :cuddle;
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Anna, It's sad to hear this news. Being there for Randy as he goes through this is an incredible gift. You are a strong and loving woman. :grouphug;
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anna :bandance;, thinking of you
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Thank you all. :cuddle;
Just now got to a computer. The appt. with R's neph was intense. He told R he had to quit drinking. He said R would need to start dialysis in 2 to 6 months...and wouldn't make it if he continued drinking. He offered to help R find a place that would help him quit and R refused. He scheduled an echo on Oct 1st to find out the damage to R's heart.
After the appt. R said he didn't think the hepC meds would work. I told him that it's not too late to find out. He could quit and go on the meds. If it didn't work, he could go back to drinking if he wanted.
That night he called me and said he was thinking about quitting. I told him I'd help in any way I can. Then last night he called and asked me how the blood pressure cuff works. Then he asked if Adam and I would like to come over and visit today. I know he's extremely scared now.
Sunny, I think this might be his wake-up call. Maybe. I'm not getting my hopes up. But I will be there for him no matter what. It's very very difficult for me but the alternative is worse. Sometimes I fall apart. Sometimes I'm so angry. But mostly it's sad fear. He feels this, too.
Flip, can he drink a lot of beer after he goes on dialysis? It's my impression that there are fluid restrictions for people on dialysis. When I say a lot I'm talking about more than 6 every evening and more than 20 (each day) on the weekends.
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Oh anna! What a struggle you've been through!
The fluid restrictions that I have are so that the constant dehydration can be controlled. For example, I weigh in and the go through dialysis. At the end I weight out. The difference between the two weights equals the amount of fluid they removed so that I can maintain a "dry weight". Since the kidneys aren't functioning properly, they can't produce the amount of urine the should. Instead your body packs all the water into cells and dialysis removes the fluid build up.
So, long story short, drinking large amounts of beer is incompatible with the purpose of dialysis. It only makes more work for the overworked kidneys, if there's any function at all, and it makes the removal of excess fluid that much more time consuming. It's NOT GOOD! LOL.
I pray for your continued strength during this time! As the spouse of an alcoholic for 22 years, I know its a struggle. Alcoholism is a slow, suicidal death.
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AB,
:grouphug;
I don't often post on threads like this because (like someone else said somewhere else) I don't have the words... but, I am certainly wishing the best for you. An alcoholic loved one is tremendously painful to deal with.
In response to your question regarding fluid:
Weekdays - Yes, 12 - 12 oz beers can be removed in a 3 hr dialysis session (a difficult session). This is much easier if the person is still peeing - less fluid needs to be removed by dialysis.
[The math: 6 - 12 oz (355 ml) beers per evening x 2 evenings = 4.26 liters. 4.26 liters /3 hrs = 1.42 liters/hr (doable, not comfortable)]
The weekend consumption is way beyond the limits of dialysis.
Toxins are also an issue in alcoholic beverages. Rolando has been advised by his neph that wine is the best choice for dialysis patients who drink because it has the least toxins. Someone else may have more specific info in this regard.
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Anna,
This is a very scary time for you I know.. and for Randy.. but this is exactly the path Randy has taken with his drinking... this would have been the sort of things he would have been warned about time and time again and AGAIN he is making a CHOICE to keep drinking (even though he says he is "thinking" of quitting.. it's easier said than done for an alcoholic - as we know).
Re the drinking of beer - as others have said it's definitely more the fluid than the alcohol - though I believe beer can be high in one of the P's... phosphate perhaps? Which wouldn't be so good.. Specially with the numbers you are talking. Dialysis would never remove that much fluid.
I do know some people (oddly enough, all female) who have NO fluid restrictions. One friend of mine drinks reasonable amounts when she goes out on a Saturday night and seems to have no real problem.
I'm not surprised Randy was overloaded with fluid and it affected his lungs and heart.. this is the sort of thing we are warned about with dialysis and not following fluid restrictions - and he's not even on dialysis yet - his urine output must be down to not clear all the excess fluid.
My concern is that this will drive him DEEPER to the drink as a form of escape.. and just increase a cycle that can only lead to one place. I hope it is not so. I pray this is the sort of wake up call he needs...
and I hope you will be able to cope OK through this testing and very scary times...
:grouphug;
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just checking in with a :cuddle;
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:grouphug;
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Thank you all for the info about fluid restrictions. I figured that he drank way too much on the weekends for dialysis. And now he's drinking rum, too. I saw it in his kitchen this morning. It scared the hell out of me. But I haven't called him about it. Don't know what to say. Richard is right in that this recent problem has driven him further into his escape.
Last Thursday I went to see him after work. He was having a hard time talking, his face was red, his eyes were puffy. I took his blood pressure and it was really high. I convinced him to let me call his neph, who told R to double up on his bp meds. It took many hours for his bp to come down, then it got a bit too low...so I played doctor...dangerous, I know...and told R to take just 1 in the morning and 2 at night. It leveled off after that. And the neph told me I had made a good decision, thank God!!!
Now R can't remember what to take so he calls me every afternoon to ask...and he's frustrated because he never can remember and he gets confused. This really worries me. I know sometimes the toxins go to the brain.
Yes, Richard, HIS choice. I will not forget that. I have healthy things going on in my life. It's almost like leading a double-life. Feels weird sometimes when people ask me how it's going. I say very bad and very good. A rollercoaster. But, again, I would not have it any other way. I can't imagine NOT taking care of him.
Love to you all. :grouphug;
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Maybe the double-life is just fine Anna.
If it gives you a chance for a more normal existence that is a good thing in my mind. You need to stay sane.
It already sounds like it might make it easier for you to help Randy without having it completely drain you.
XO, Linda
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I admire you so much Anna. I really mean this because I know that my anger about the alcohol (a legacy from my alcoholic Dad) would dominate my deep desire to keep on caring. You sound so clear about the double life aspect of it and the need to not neglect yourself in the equation.
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Anna,
Re Randy forgetting when to take his meds... does he have one of those pill organiser things that have like little compartments for all the days and morning, and night etc so you fill it up once a week or whatever and then you know what you have to take when? Maybe something like that might be an idea.. or even something as simple as a list stuck to the fridge door or something with MORNING, AFTERNOON, NIGHT etc... might be an idea.. of course he has to go look there.. but if he's calling you to remind him it's clearly on his mind anyway (or it is an excuse to talk to you? or both)?
Hang in there.....
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Hi everyone. I am on my friend's computer for the day for the first time in a while. I've had a good job in Nashville....been very busy and I'm glad of it.
Randy's still drinking about the same. The other day he asked me how long I thought he had to live. I told him I don't know. It was very sad. His creatinine jumped from 2.6 to 4. They put him on more medication for phosphorus, of course, because of the content in beer. He says all the meds make him sick...but I know it's all the beer. He knows, too, I think. But won't give it up. He's cancelled all his doctors appts. except for his neph who prescribes his meds. He's going to go to part time work soon..which I know is the beginning of the end for him because he just drinks when he doesn't work. So things will go from bad to worse when that happens.
He and I talk every day and see each other now and then. He says he made a mistake when he told me to leave...but I won't go back now. I think about my son a lot and the stress involved with Randy's drinking and health issues. And I know for certain that if I went back, things would go bad again pretty quickly. We are in the process of redefining our love for one another. It's very difficult but it has to be done. Sometimes I still feel the deep "in love" feelings for him and I want to go back so badly...but know I can't because I know it will never work out. It's still heartbreaking.
So glad you all are still here.
Anna
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Anna :grouphug; We have been thinking of you. You are one strong woman is my opinion. Please keep updating us, we really do care and wish nothing but the best for you. :cuddle;
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Anna, I'm glad you know we're here and think about you all the time. If ever you feel alone I hope you draw on that. You're wise to keep your protective boundaries in place and keep things secure feeling for your son.
:flower; :cuddle; :flower;
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:grouphug; :grouphug;
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Thanks for checking in, Anna. Wow, you have been (and continue to be) so strong and intelligent and insightful through all of this. I know it's hard, but I know that you can keep on doing what you need to do for you and your son. Take care, and please keep us posted. :cuddle; :grouphug;
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I agree. Anna you are so strong getting through all of this which must be so incredibly difficult....
:grouphug;
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Anna, The easiest thing is to go back. But, you are making the best choice, even if it is the hardest. You are taking care of yourself and your son. I am glad your job is going well. You are an incredible woman and we are all proud to know you. You are doing great!! We are here whenever you need us. Love and good wishes :cuddle;
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I haven't been posting on this thread because I don't have any experience to draw from, but I had to check in to say, Anna, you are an inspiration for me. I admire your strength, patience, loyalty, and ability to accept Randy's decisions, while still maintaing your sanity and your own sense of self. :grouphug;
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:grouphug; sending bigs hugs and love at this really tough time. Stay strong, we love you :grouphug;
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Thank you all very much for the support and love. :cuddle; :cuddle; :cuddle;
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Anna I am thinking of you :cuddle;
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I thought I would post here again because my question has to do with a new medical condition for Randy.
He's been in the hospital again with problems with congestive heart failure.
He has his fistula surgery scheduled for Monday...but his creatinine went so high last week that he has to have a cath on Monday, too, and start dialysis in the hospital right after the surgery. They want to keep him for a few days to make sure his heart is stable.
I'm scared about the surgery and his heart. He's been trying to cut back on the beer but drinks a bit more than he should. He's restricted to 8 cups of fluid/day now.
Is this a dangerous surgery for him?
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Anna,
I'm just glad he has made the decision to have the surgery and start dialysis. That alone is good news and worth the risk. I hope he does well during surgery and will be thinking of you.
So much to worry about and this time of year, it's another added stress.
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Thanks, Sunny. I'm glad he made the decision, too. It was a hard one for him. This morning he wanted to leave before surgery and go to Florida.
I'm going to start a new thread about Randy in the dialysis section.