I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: KICKSTART on September 11, 2007, 06:41:27 AM
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Has anyone been on Amitriptyline? ( it might be called something else where you are?) My gp is starting me on it because i just cant sleep .I have been begging for some help with this for ages. Ive also discovered its an anti-depressant ..so it looks like i'm going to be dopey but smiling .. ;D
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Ambien works for me. Tried Ambien CR but didn't get as good a result as I do with plain Ambien. Am using a generic now and find it works for me as well as did the original./bobt
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my neph tried Amitriptyline on me. it didn't work. maybe i didn't give it enough of a chance. it does take time to kick in, they say.
nothing does the job better than pot, for me. as long as i don't overdo it.
;)
love
~LL~
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I am like BobT, I take the generic form of Ambien. Works fine and my neph prescibes it for me. He says it is very important to get good sleep and enough of it, something I have never done.
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My neph just wrote me a script for Ambien yesterday. I'm actually a little nervous about trying it when I have to get up the next morning, so I'll probably wait until Friday to take it.
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I also use Ambien, and generic works just the same for me as Ambien itself. :)
LL~ Why you using pot?
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my neph tried Amitriptyline on me. it didn't work. maybe i didn't give it enough of a chance. it does take time to kick in, they say.
nothing does the job better than pot, for me. as long as i don't overdo it.
;)
love
~LL~
I can vouch for that ;) :2thumbsup;
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The only 'pot' i use .. is a 'teapot' :rofl;
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I take the generic for Ambien and I fall asleep pretty quickly
but usually wake up about 2-3 hrs later for a while and finally get
back to sleep.
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Nothing worked for me. I tried Restoril and then Ambien. I couldn't sleep at night and couldn't stay awake during the day. It was awful. :thumbdown;
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i use pot because it works the best for me.
it helps me get to sleep.
it stimulates my appetite, which is hampered now because of all the meds i take.
it eases nausea.
it acts as a very effective laxitive.
it lowers my B/P.
it feels good, calming me and opening my creative abilities even more.
there are no side effects.
why don't you use it?
;)
love
~LL~
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I dont use pot , firstly because i wouldnt know where to buy it !! :rofl; But on a serious note ..wouldnt it show up at blood tests ? (being illegal here i would expect the doctor would have something to say about it ! )
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nope. like everything else, if they don't make a point of looking for something specific, they don't even see it in your bloodwork.
the repercussions of the stupidity of the 'reefer madness' days is finally passing as people realise that the propaganda against cannabis was more about the competition between the oil magnates and the hemp industry than the bigotry and predjudice that was instigated to hamstring the oil monsters' rival.
(hemp seed can be converted to oil that burns pollution free and is very cheap to produce, by the way. something the oil companies don't want you to know.;))
love
~LL~
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GIVE ME A BREAK LL YOU ARE WACKED.....Boxman
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my neph tried Amitriptyline on me. it didn't work. maybe i didn't give it enough of a chance. it does take time to kick in, they say.
nothing does the job better than pot, for me. as long as i don't overdo it.
;)
love
~LL~
Regarding pot - a little warning to transplant patients from the National Kidney Foundation:
From Illness to Wellness:
Life After Transplantation
Marijuana and other illicit drugs hold many risks for us, and that's in addition to
the usual risks for everyone. Because we never know exactly what we are smoking
or ingesting, their use could lead to infection or an illness that our bodies cannot
fight off due to our immunosuppressed state.
Before taking any over-the-counter medications, vitamins or herbal supplements,
check with your transplant team to make sure there are no harmful interactions.
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i guess we better not mention how the developer of prednisone commited suicide after he found out what the side-effects of his drug was doing to people.
;)
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i guess we better not mention how the developer of prednisone commited suicide after he found out what the side-effects of his drug was doing to people.
;)
Tell me more , thats something i havent come across !
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i guess we better not mention how the developer of prednisone commited suicide after he found out what the side-effects of his drug was doing to people.
;)
I have heard that story before, but apparently it's untrue. The inventor who discovered prednisone in 1950, Arthur Nobile, died in 2004 at the age of 84.
http://www.invent.org/hall_of_fame/355.html
Anyway, it's off topic, but thought you'd want to know.
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i use pot because it works the best for me.
it helps me get to sleep.
it stimulates my appetite, which is hampered now because of all the meds i take.
it eases nausea.
it acts as a very effective laxitive.
it lowers my B/P.
it feels good, calming me and opening my creative abilities even more.
there are no side effects.
why don't you use it?
;)
love
~LL~
Sounds to me like just a bunch of excuses to use it.
I don't use illegal drugs.. that is why. If it is needed for medical reasons, I would have a prescription for it.
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that's why, in the civilised countries, cannabis is not 'illegal' anymore.
here, for instance, in canada, the government allows one to obtain a card that gives them
the right to use cannabis for medicinal purposes.
what excuse do you use to be on dialysis?
;)
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that's why, in the civilised countries, cannabis is not 'illegal' anymore.
here, for instance, in canada, the government allows one to obtain a card that gives them
the right to use cannabis for medicinal purposes.
what excuse do you use to be on dialysis?
;)
You didn't mention one medical reason you were using it. Sorry, like I stated, if it's medically needed, you should be given a prescription.
I am not on dialysis.
When I was, what would I need an excuse for? Life Support and Illegal Drugs are 2 different things.. not sure what they have in common so not sure why it was brought up.
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i guess you don't read very well. i mentioned at least 4 'medical' reasons why i use it, dear.
we are talking about aids to getting to sleep, I thought. for me, pot works best.
i do not consider the legalities of the matter because i know that the wide opinion
that condemns the use of cannabis is based on lies and propaganda and can only
be acceptable to those who are sucseptable to the brainwashing methods
of the industrial magnates that perpetrated the lies in the first place, in order to
meet their financial agenda.
if you believe everything your doctor tells you, without cross-reference and common sense,
you are a good robot, but not much of an individual.
'i'd rather sit alone on a pumpkin, than on a crowded, velvet cushion.'
-Thoroeau
love
~LL~
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Good topic. So is the problem of not sleeping well brought on by
the buildup of toxins in the brain? Starting about two years ago my
problem was waking up numerous time during the night. I was always
a "good" sleeper, getting my eight hours. What I have been using is
1 mg of Melotonin taken at least one hour before bedtime. Now I
usually wake just once a night.
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i guess you don't read very well. i mentioned at least 4 'medical' reasons why i use it, dear.
we are talking about aids to getting to sleep, I thought. for me, pot works best.
i do not consider the legalities of the matter because i know that the wide opinion
that condemns the use of cannabis is based on lies and propaganda and can only
be acceptable to those who are sucseptable to the brainwashing methods
of the industrial magnates that perpetrated the lies in the first place, in order to
meet their financial agenda.
if you believe everything your doctor tells you, without cross-reference and common sense,
you are a good robot, but not much of an individual.
'i'd rather sit alone on a pumpkin, than on a crowded, velvet cushion.'
-Thoroeau
love
~LL~
LOL.. I seen 1 medical reason, a sleep aid, however, if it was the only thing that could/would work for you, you should be given a prescription for it.
I don't recall saying anything about "believing everything a doctor tells me"... so why would you say that in the first place? I never once talked to a doctor about pot... :)
Not sure where brainwashing comes in the convo either, as I know I am not brainwashed.. ;)
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I took Restoril, did nothing for me at all. I am now taking generic tylenol pm and one benadryl. That seems to do the trick for me. Go figure.
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i guess you don't read very well. i mentioned at least 4 'medical' reasons why i use it, dear.
we are talking about aids to getting to sleep, I thought. for me, pot works best.
i do not consider the legalities of the matter because i know that the wide opinion
that condemns the use of cannabis is based on lies and propaganda and can only
be acceptable to those who are sucseptable to the brainwashing methods
of the industrial magnates that perpetrated the lies in the first place, in order to
meet their financial agenda.
if you believe everything your doctor tells you, without cross-reference and common sense,
you are a good robot, but not much of an individual.
'i'd rather sit alone on a pumpkin, than on a crowded, velvet cushion.'
-Thoroeau
love
~LL~
Like I said LL you are wacked "brainwashing methods" wow, pot has alot to do with that doesn't it??
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The only 'pot' i use .. is a 'teapot' :rofl;
I also have a pisspot 'cause I can't be bothered un-hooking in the middle of the night.
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LL- If you use marijuana without a doctors presciption, then give me a reason why you should be given a kidney versus a person who actually follows the law?? It pisses me off to think that you are getting away with that and are just so smug about it!
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my husband uses Trazadone 100mg- I am not sure what that is the generic for, and I am skeptical that it works. Between that, the phenergan (which is sedative based), the duragesic, and the ativan he does fade out pretty quick after pills at night, adding the sleep aid didn't make it any quicker .
As to smoking pot, keeping in mind that is ISN'T illegal in lots of countries, I smoked for over 25 years. I quit so my husband could quit too- there are risks to smoking with a compromised immune system. The mold aspergillious can be inhaled in smoke, and it can be fatal in post transplant peeps. Then there is the fact that Dr.'s in the USA have a stick up their ass when it comes to pot smoking and assume (wrongly) that people who smoke are hardcore 'drug addicts' and do not deserve a transplant, and I want him to have a transplant, and I want to donate him a kidney. It still annoys me when people who judge others for smoking pot, stand on the high horse of- 'its illegal'!!! There are lots of things that people do that are illegal-and they do it anyway- riding down the road in the left lane for instance, its a PASSING lane- THOSE people should be shot! and their are plenty of people who do things I don't agree with, like dipping snuff and spitting in a cup-blech! (alright maybe they should be shot too!) I heard about the guy who got drunk and beat his wifes ass, I never heard about the guy who smoked a joint and giggled until the pizza was done...just my :twocents;
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and as for who "desrves" a kidney- wow-if it was legal would they still "deserve" it less.?
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I don't have a problem sleeping, I wish I had more time to sleep during the week. I'm not sure if taking drugs (prescribed or otherwise) is the answer, I would suggest a more active life that makes you feel that you are in need of a good nights rest.
I'm sure my view would change if I could not sleep.
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AlasdairUK , sorry but it doesnt come down to exercise . I am on the go one way or another all the day ! Its not that you go to bed not feeling tired. You go to bed totally exhausted, cant keep eyes open and from out of no-where its like a light goes on in your head and you are awake. My sleep pattern is something like .. shattered .. go to bed .. not early about 11pm. Read till cant keep eyes open , put light off ..toss and turn for 2 hrs.Put light back on .. go downstairs .. sit for an hour .. try bed again. Fall asleep , yay .. one hour later awake again ..and pretty much the same till morning or till i've had enough sleep/wake/sleep/wake. I dont sit in front of the tv all day doing nothing and i dont sleep in the daytime. I wont be convinced that this sleep pattern has nothing to do with renal failure .. i was an 8hr a night person before all this !
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This is from: National Institutes of Health - Kidney Failure: What to Expect - http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/expect/#sleep
Sleep Disorders
Patients on dialysis often have insomnia (trouble getting to sleep). Some people have a special problem called the sleep apnea syndrome. Episodes of apnea are breaks in breathing during sleep. Over time, these sleep disturbances can lead to "day-night reversal" (insomnia at night, sleepiness during the day). This can cause headaches, depression, and decreased alertness. The apnea may be related to the effects advanced kidney failure has on the control of breathing. Some treatments may work with people who have sleep apnea, whether they have kidney failure or not. These include losing weight, changing sleeping position, and wearing a mask that gently pumps air continuously into the nose (nasal continuous positive airway pressure, or CPAP).
Many people on dialysis have trouble sleeping at night because of aching, uncomfortable, jittery, or "restless" legs. You may feel a strong impulse to kick or thrash your legs. Kicking may occur during sleep and disturb a bed partner throughout the night. Theories about the causes of this syndrome include nerve damage and chemical imbalances.
Moderate exercise during the day may help, but exercising a few hours before bedtime can make restless legs worse. People with restless leg syndrome should reduce or avoid caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco. Some people also find relief through massages or warm baths. A class of drugs called benzodiazepines may also help. They are often used to treat insomnia or anxiety. These prescription drugs include Klonopin, Librium, Valium, and Halcion. A newer and sometimes more effective therapy is levodopa (Sinemet). This drug is also used to treat Parkinson’s disease.
Sleep disorders may not seem important, but they can make your quality of life worse. Make sure to bring these problems up with your nurse, doctor, or social worker.
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This is from American Society of Nephrology - Sleep Apnea in Renal Patients - http://jasn.asnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/12/12/2854
Sleep Apnea in End-Stage Renal Disease (ESRD)
Disturbed sleep is common in uremia. Up to 80% of chronic dialysis patients complain of sleep disturbances and reduced daytime alertness. Sleep disruption is a problem of paramount importance that is still inadequately appreciated by nephrologists. In healthy young subjects, restricting time in bed to 4 h per night for 6 d induces striking alterations in metabolic and endocrine function, including increased sympathetic tone and a state of insulin resistance (13). Both abnormalities are well known complications of chronic uremia. There are only a few valid studies, i.e. based on electrophysiologic recordings in the sleep laboratory, which documented the occurrence of sleep apnea in dialysis patients (14–23). (more)
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No amount of excersise, being busy, not napping can help the type of sleep problems people here are discribing. My sleep pattern in exactly like Kickstart's. It is pure bliss to get a good 8 hours sleep and if I have to take something to acheive that, thank goodness I can! I use to be that person who didn't take any medications and was very smug about it. Well, I have been put in my place by this disease and am grateful for those who discovered the drugs I need to keep going.
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for the record, kiddies, i don't want to hijack this thread into a pot discussion. and, i have no intention of getting a kidney transplant, whether some think i 'deserve' it or not.
each of us does what we need to do in order to get by as best we can. you can judge me all you want. all that does is make you judge-able, too.
and boxman, if i'm not mistaken, your avatar is a pic of bob marley. he was a rastafarian and an extremely heavy user of pot, in case you didn't know.
;)
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and thanks glitter. your words speak truth, at least.
there are sensible laws and their are questionable laws. the laws against pot are based on governmental and industrial (same thing) agendas. i am not for 'legalisation' at all. i am for 'de-criminalisation' of the substance. when governments can control the growth and distribution of cannabis, the quality of the product will suffer enormously. growing your own is best, but until that's a little safer, i'll stick to my trusted and reliable sources for getting my needs met.
love
~LL~
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I don't smoke pot, I haven't for a few years...However, when I first got diagnosed with ESRD my first nephrologist told me it was ok to smoke in moderation if I wanted but I should just make sure I knew the grower and it wasn't laced. (She was telling me in the idea that knowledge and safety is better than me going off and doing it in an unsafe manner). With that same idea, post transplant I have been told by a different nephrologist that I can not smoke because of the fungus that can grow on my kidney, however if I at some point get the desire to (not likely) I should just bake it in brownies or something because it's a lot safer if I'm not smoking it. So, not all doctors in the U.S. have a stick up their ass. I think its just come to a point where it's such a widely debated issue that it's slowly becoming more accepted. Also, (and I might be wrong) but I don't think there is a whole lot of research saying that it is horribly bad for you. I'm not condoning it or condemning it, I'm just saying what my experience has been with my doctors in the U.S. So for everybody it's different.
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so back to the topic of actual medication for sleep...Kickstart when do you get to start the medication and how long until it's suppose to work?
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Im going to start it tonight , but ..its main use is to treat depression , so i have been told and a side effect of this tablet is it helps you sleep as well , hence the dual use. I have been told by some it will take up to 14 days to start being effective , but im not sure if thats as an anti depressant or not? Anyway like i say .. if it makes me dopey at least i will be smiling !!! Not sure an anti depressant will be a bad thing either will all the housing problems i have !! I will post and let you know how it goes :2thumbsup;
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I know a lot of anti-depressants normally take about 14 days to start working, I'm not sure about the sleeping part of it though. I hope it works well for you, I know how frustrating it can be if you can't sleep through the night!
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LL I could have used Jimi or Jim Morrison or Jerry or Janis or so on.. all where great musicians but all are dead from drugs. My choice is not because he did drugs it is a reminder of what drugs can ultimately do to you. Hope that straightens your curiosity out about my choice of avatars...Boxman
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uhhh? didn't Bob Marley die from CANCER?
In July 1977, Marley was found to have malignant melanoma in a football wound on his right hallux (big toe). Marley refused amputation, citing worries that the operation would affect his dancing, as well as the Rastafari belief that the body must be "whole":
“ Rasta no abide amputation. I don't allow a man to be dismantled. ”
—From the biography Catch a Fire
Marley may have seen medical doctors as samfai (tricksters, deceivers). True to this belief Marley went against all surgical possibilities and sought out other means that would not break his religious beliefs. He also refused to register a will, based on the Rastafari belief that writing a will is acknowledging death as inevitable, thus disregarding the everlasting character of life.
Collapse and treatment
The cancer then metastasized to Marley's brain, lungs, liver, and stomach. After playing two shows at Madison Square Garden as part of his fall 1980 Uprising Tour, he collapsed while jogging in NYC's Central Park. The remainder of the tour was subsequently cancelled.
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ohh sorry so he is a hero now...My mistake
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i never said he was a hero, and I don't know what you mean by that. He WAS a great musician, and its a pity he died. Your facts were wrong.
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Why is he a hero boxman?
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Did you see how he brought the 2 leaders of (i forget what nations or countries) together, it was a VERY BIG DEAL. The man is a legend in every sense of the word... We Be Jammin' Mon... O0
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Nope, I didn't... What year was this?
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Why is he a hero boxman?
Whoa - this thread has gotten way off track!
Here's the info about Bob Marley -- but start a new thread if you want to continue:
Bob was awarded the famous Peace Medal of the Third World by the United Nations, a prestigious honor for his work in fighting for peace and justice in his native country of Jamaica and throughout Africa. In fact, the award was given to him by the Senegalese Youth Ambassador to the U.N., Mohmmadu Johnny Seka, on behalf of 500 million Africans.
Ok now back to SLEEEEEP!!
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i love bob marley's music too. he died because he was too dedicated to his faith, which i consider stupid, not 'heroic.' its the same mentality that would deny a dying child a blood transfusion.
pot is not a 'drug' boxman, you're thinking is skewed by your rigid opinion, it seems. its not a refined substance, like a drug is, it is usually organic and would be more accurately referred to as an 'herb'-
morrison died from a heroin OD, same as janis and hendrix. those are drugs. your education may need upgrading, but i doubt you care about that and would rather rest in the happiness of your ignorance.
happy sleepin!
:)
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Okarol is right--hopefullywe are done with pot, marley, and name calling. Except if you want your own thread about such subjects. O0 :boxing; :secret; ???
I had the first good nights sleep in a week! Took my ambien, favorite pajamas and finally slept for 7 hours! :2thumbsup;
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well exCUUUUUUSSSe me!
i am simply talking about what i use for sleep medication. i didn't ask to be attacked for my choices, but if anyone thinks they can walk all over me they might be suprised to find themselves stumbling a bit.
seems like some people need something to wake up more than anything else.
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I used several sleep aids, Ambien (several different doses), Lunesta, and another one or two I can't recall. The Ambien in any dose worked best for me. The Lunesta was the worst for me because of side effects (a very bad taste was the big one) and I chose not to keep with it in hopes that they would deteriorate.
I just read this entire thread and I have to say it was quite entertaining, ya know with the Bob Marley dieing of a drug overdose (?) and the discussion of drug use in general.
Someone did mention exercise to help with sleep and I would have to say there is some weight to that, maybe not for everyone. A big part of it is psychological in my opinion, if you believe, truly believe, that something will work then there is a better chance of success. It should be mentioned that having a busy day and parking at the back of the parking-lot is not quite the same as exercise. I am not an authority but I think a key componet to exercising is achieving an elevated heart rate and maintaining that rate for a minimum of 30 minutes in order for the exercise to be beneficial. I have been running 3.5 miles just about every day for over a month now (above and beyond anything else I do) and it has done more for me that any one drug (legal or not) has ever done physically or mentally.
I am not about arguing anymore on this site, a nice discussion is fine but things seem to get out of controll and who really is benefiting from that. I would like to comment that I did appreciate posts made by glitter and LL. I hope everyone finds a solution to get a good nights rest.