I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: Medical Breakthroughs => Topic started by: Sara on March 08, 2006, 07:27:09 AM
-
How far away are they from doing this?
-
some one in my office was just asking me about this today, weather or not it would help me.
It's not finding a kidney that is my problem. My problem is my body keeps killing the kidney. The disease is not in my kidney it is in my autoimmune system. There is some kind of circulating protein factor in my blood that causes some kind of break down in the kidney.
-
Isnt it something like 10-20 years away? Cant remember exactly, but wouldnt it be good!
-
The government has provide very little funding into stem cell research, but the there was an article in todays paper that said there were 2 new places that are going to start stem cell research. I believe both were collages one in chicago and one somewhere else, but instead of the government funding it they are privately funding the research. This means they will be able to do more in the long run than the government funded facilities. Hopefully more places like this emerge so we can move forward and possibly reduce or eliminate many of today physical aliments. I know this research opens a huge can of worms ethically, but if done professionally I think it can help mankind.
-
It already has be done, but not in USA.....
Complete working kidneys have been grown in mice using stem cells derived from human and pig fetuses. If the feat can be repeated in humans, it will allow doctors to replace damaged organs without the need for a donor.
The Israeli team, who used three-month-old mice as recipients for the growing kidneys, were able to avoid immune rejection by using embryonic stem cells. The developing kidney takes time to acquire 'antigen presenting cells' which are recognised by the host immune system as foreign.
Embryonic stem cells are also able to adapt to their host, reducing the chance that they will be rejected later in development, says Camillo Ricordi, University of Miami, who works on transplanting islet cells into the pancreas to cure type I diabetes.
"Our data pinpoint a window ... that may be optimal for transplantation in humans," say the researchers in their paper in Nature Medicine. If the cells are too young, they do not develop into all the necessary cell types. But if taken too late, the developing kidney will be rejected.
The kidneys functioned well enough to produce dilute urine. But the organs did not connect up with the host's excretory system. Instead, the researchers, led by Yair Reisner at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, connected a catheter directly into the developing organ. If the technique were used on patients, surgery would be required to connect up the developing kidney.
-
Where did you get that quote from? I'd like to read more about that...because I thought that the only organs that had been grown using stemcells, were bladders
-
Actually I found it...
-
No one can afford what we have now. "Epogen" for example. Why do more research when no one can afford it anyway.
Notice "Private Industry" is funding it? That is not because they care for "mankind." Remember ENRON??
-
Actually I found it...
::) SHARING IS GOOD!
-
Actually I found it...
::) SHARING IS GOOD!
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3216
Google is your friend >:D
-
Actually I found it...
::) SHARING IS GOOD!
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3216
Google is your friend >:D
Why would I use google when I have YOU! >:D
-
No one can afford what we have now. "Epogen" for example. Why do more research when no one can afford it anyway.
Notice "Private Industry" is funding it? That is not because they care for "mankind." Remember ENRON??
I thought you were a conservative? What's wrong with free-enterprise finding medical solutions. Monopolies are never good, and EPO has been a perfect example of that. But there will soon be competition for the "EPO" market. And competition usually brings down the price. ;)
-
I thought you were a conservative? What's wrong with free-enterprise finding medical solutions. Monopolies are never good, and EPO has been a perfect example of that. But there will soon be competition for the "EPO" market. And competition usually brings down the price. ;)
If that is true then why is dialysis so expensive and keeps going up. It's been around since 1961 and there is competition. Medical costs are so astronomical that you may as well buy a star. No one can afford what we have. We pay through the nose for a doc to look at a zit. Kidney transplants are "routine" yet they are thousands of dollars (not a dime to the donor - which is a bunch of crap). How much will it cost for Superman to walk again (if he were alive). I wouldn't mind paying for research if other costs were controlled. Would it be Capitolism if they found a cure for cancer but held it for those who could pay a million dollars for the serum? That is not Capitolism, that is Dictatorship (greed).
-
If that is true then why is dialysis so expensive and keeps going up. It's been around since 1961 and there is competition.
There is limited competition, since there are three big chains. But it costs about $148 per treatment. Not cheap, but not as expensive as you think. I know, others have said differently, and your private insurance pays a hell of a lot more. But this figure is pretty close to the truth.
-
I have read different articles over the years on stuff like this.
One was about growing human kidneys in pigs for transplant. Don't think I will go for one of them. :P
However here is a link to an interesting article from a few years ago.
First few lines from the article.
"In Minnesota, pigs are being born with human blood in their veins.
In Nevada, there are sheep whose livers and hearts are largely human.
In California, mice peer from their cages with human brain cells firing inside their skulls" :o
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63731-2004Nov19.html
-
Zach, is that $148 per dialysis? Over here it is apparently around $800 or more per session. I once overheard a nurse talking to a chinese patient who didnt have a medicare card, and they told him it was going to be $1500 per dialysis if he didnt get a medicare card :o
-
Please be specific when referring to stem cells. A lot of people and media types speak of stem cell research as though there's only one kind, embryonic stem cells. In fact, stem cells can also be taken from adults and from placental blood. Adult stem cells already have produced some practical applications. Embronic stem cells are a bust so far.
To each his own, but personally, I'd rather die from my kidney failure than accept a kidney created from embroyonic stem cells. IMHO I would consider that deliberately ending an innocent life to spare mine. On the other hand, I think it would be ideal if they could harvest my body's stem cells and grow me a new kidney. I would imagine that would totally bypass rejection problems, or nearly so. Unfortunately, I think that possibility is a long way off.
-
I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.
-
Japanese researchers cloned a human kidney by cultivating human stem cells from adult bone marrow into rat embryos.
-
And how much will it cost and who will pay for it?
-
The government can pay for it with the 10 million (or was it billion?) they had left over from the budget that they have stuffed in a draw for a rainy day.
-
The government can pay for it with the 10 million (or was it billion?) they had left over from the budget that they have stuffed in a draw for a rainy day.
At least you didn't say "Money they would spend on war planes". Thank you~
-
I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.
I agree with aMbEr. I cannot understand why the US government is hindering stem cell research, which generally is understood to be a possible future treatment/cure for various diseases.
In Oct 2006 Nephrology News & Issues there was following article:
Italian stem cell researchers make kidney repair breakthrough
TWO TEAMS OF ITALIAN SCIENTISTS HAVE MADE important advances in stem cell research that could pave the way for new kidney disease treatments. A Florence, Italy team, led by top immunologist Sergio Romagnani, identified kidney stem cells that can help damaged kidneys repair themselves.
“Chronic renal diseases and terminal renal insufficiency are viewed as the medical emergency of the new century,” Romagnani told a press conference after the publication of his team’s findings in the Journal of the American Society of Nephrology. “This is particularly important because the drugs we currently have are only able to slow down kidney damage.”
In mice affected by kidney degeneration, Romagnani explained, the stem cells proved effective in repairing the damaged organs. The researchers say the cells appear able to turn into an array of other body cells. The cells can be cultivated in the lab so as to “multi-differentiate” into other types of cells: bone cells, adipose ( fatty tissue) cells, and even nerve cells.
The discovery was made using stem cells from adults, a considerable achievement as researchers are looking for alternatives to embryonic research. Stem cell research has been hindered in the U.S., as President Bush vetoed a bill that would have provided federal funds, citing objections to embryonic research. However, the research has continued in other countries, often with government assistance.
-
I have never really understood how the economy works. Call me dumb I guess. But who sets the budget? Cant they make it more? Why does it have to be so limited? And why can the prime minister give himself a 1 million dollar pay rise, but they cant help the failing health system? Apparently he/they (the other pollies) "needed" a pay rise. What shit!!!!
-
Whatever you think of the US government's policy toward embryonic stem cell research, it has caused a major increase in research with other types of stem cells.
-
Whatever you think of the US government's policy toward embryonic stem cell research, it has caused a major increase in research with other types of stem cells.
Very true.
One huge problem is when the US government gets into funding such stuff the it tends to drag along because those doing the science do not feel the need to produce results as fast because the government is funding it.
-
I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.
With all due respect, you make two assumptions are questionable: 1) That it's not a life, a statement you can't prove without some arbitrary definition of life; and 2) that a woman owns her embryos, which assumes that a father has no rights to his offspring. Adult stem cells are more promising from what I understand, and they don't carry all that moral baggage. I think scarce resources would be better directed that way.
-
I agree with nkviking75 about being against using dead babies. I have heard about all this since I was in College (1997) and even though I hope for a kidney one day that would not reject I would not want any part of anything from aborted babies.
-
I dont have anything against abortion if its done for a good reason.
-
I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.
With all due respect, you make two assumptions are questionable: 1) That it's not a life, a statement you can't prove without some arbitrary definition of life; and 2) that a woman owns her embryos, which assumes that a father has no rights to his offspring. Adult stem cells are more promising from what I understand, and they don't carry all that moral baggage. I think scarce resources would be better directed that way.
I am not a specialist on stem cell research, but US National Institute of Health had following answer on their FAQ list:
Why not use adult stem cells instead of using human embryonic stem cells in research?
Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater developmental potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic stem cells may be pluripotent—that is, able to give rise to cells found in all tissues of the embryo except for germ cells rather than being merely multipotent—restricted to specific subpopulations of cell types, as adult stem cells are thought to be.
Of course there is some research ethic issue with using embryonic stem cells, but many countries in the world have allowed their usage on the research.
It might be also true that private funding might push research to the faster result, I don't know. However in my opinion there could be more federal funding on the health care and research. The annual federal funding increase for National Institute of Health for has been going down last couple of years at the same as the annual federal funding increase for Department of Homeland Security has been rising to new records. Is this OK...? Now this is getting too political so better to stop.
-
I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.
With all due respect, you make two assumptions are questionable: 1) That it's not a life, a statement you can't prove without some arbitrary definition of life; and 2) that a woman owns her embryos, which assumes that a father has no rights to his offspring. Adult stem cells are more promising from what I understand, and they don't carry all that moral baggage. I think scarce resources would be better directed that way.
I am not a specialist on stem cell research, but US National Institute of Health had following answer on their FAQ list:
Why not use adult stem cells instead of using human embryonic stem cells in research?
Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater developmental potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic stem cells may be pluripotent—that is, able to give rise to cells found in all tissues of the embryo except for germ cells rather than being merely multipotent—restricted to specific subpopulations of cell types, as adult stem cells are thought to be.
Of course there is some research ethic issue with using embryonic stem cells, but many countries in the world have allowed their usage on the research.
It might be also true that private funding might push research to the faster result, I don't know. However in my opinion there could be more federal funding on the health care and research. The annual federal funding increase for National Institute of Health for has been going down last couple of years at the same as the annual federal funding increase for Department of Homeland Security has been rising to new records. Is this OK...? Now this is getting too political so better to stop.
Anyone interested enough to pursue this issue with an open mind should consider this position paper from the Christian Medical and Dental Society: http://www.cmdahome.org/index.cgi?BISKIT=1898896056&CONTEXT=art&art=2702 . It is a fairly long piece and heavily footnoted, and I can't possibly do an adequate job of summing it up here. I will say that the hype is being given to embryonic stem cells, but therapies already exist based on adult stem cells. If the day comes when I can donate my own stem cells so they cqn grow me a kidney, it won't be a great moral dilemma.
My compliments to all on a respectful, dignified discussion.
-
If organization's name is Christian xxxx, this would automatically make me think that their opinions might be biased and I would think that opinions form National Institute of Health would be more neutral.
Anyway in the free world everyone is entitled to express his/her own opinion and all discussion is good, without that nothing will ever change.
For anyone interested reading more about the ethics of human embryonic stem cell research here is one article from the International Society for Stem Cell Research, an independent, nonprofit organization formed in 2002 to foster the exchange of information on stem cell research. http://stemcells.nih.gov/ExternalLinkDictionary/www.isscr.org/public/ethics.htm
-
If organization's name is Christian xxxx, this would automatically make me think that their opinions might be biased and I would think that opinions form National Institute of Health would be more neutral.
It would be unfortunate for you to make that assumption. If you go to the link I provided, you'll find reasoned arguments, footnotes so you can do your own follow-up research, and nary a Bible verse in sight. "Christian scientist" is not an oxymoron. It would also be a mistake to assume that scientists are always fair and unbiased, even in a government agency.
-
I wonder if scientists could take skin "ticks" and grow them into something useful? :-X
-
If organization's name is Christian xxxx, this would automatically make me think that their opinions might be biased and I would think that opinions form National Institute of Health would be more neutral.
It would be unfortunate for you to make that assumption. If you go to the link I provided, you'll find reasoned arguments, footnotes so you can do your own follow-up research, and nary a Bible verse in sight. "Christian scientist" is not an oxymoron. It would also be a mistake to assume that scientists are always fair and unbiased, even in a government agency.
EXACTLY!!
-
I do not have any problem using any form of stem cells.
-
Scientists Grow Human Bladders
Posted on: Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 06:00 CDT redorbit.com
By Thomas H. Maugh II
In a major advance toward the development of artificial organs, bladders made by growing a patient's own cells in the laboratory have been successfully implanted in seven children with spina bifida and shown to function for five years or longer, researchers announced today.
The achievement, reported online in the medical journal the Lancet, marks the first time that artificial organs more complicated than skin and bone have been implanted in humans. It brings much closer the day when scientists will grow new organs for people who have lost them to disease or injury. Clinical trials of the bladder- building process could begin later this year. The team that invented it is using the same method to grow blood vessels, kidneys, livers and other organs -- some of which have already been implanted in animals.
The bladder is a much simpler organ than a liver or a kidney, but the success of the artificial tissues in humans suggests that it may be possible to grow complicated organs and reduce the backlog of patients waiting for replacement organs.
An estimated 54,200 Americans develop bladder cancer each year, and treatment often entails removal of the bladder. Others lose their bladders as a result of congenital defects, diseases, accidents, diabetes and heavy metal poisoning.
Surgeons now replace the bladder by building a fluid reservoir using tissue from the bowel, but that produces many problems, including re-absorption of toxins, formation of stones, and kidney damage due to pressure buildup in the reservoir.
Dr. Anthony Atala and colleagues at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine have been working to overcome this problem by growing bladder cells in the laboratory, then seeding them onto a polymer scaffold shaped like a bladder.
They begin by removing a small piece of bladder, about half the size of a postage stamp. The tissue has three layers: muscle on the outside, a collagen supporting layer in the center, and specialized urothelial cells on the inside to hold the urine.
The team isolates the muscle and urothelial cells and grows them in the lab for about 30 days. The cells are not stem cells, but "progenitor" cells, which have the capacity to grow only into other bladder cells.
Meanwhile, using CT imaging of the patient to determine the size of the bladder, they construct a scaffolding of a biodegradable polymer. The muscle and urothelial cells are seeded onto the exterior and interior of the scaffold and the construct grown in an incubator for another two to three weeks.
Surgeons then remove scarred and diseased tissue from the patient's own bladder and use the artificial tissue to rebuild the organ. As the final step, they wrap the new organ in omentum, a membrane from the interior of the abdomen rich in blood vessels that supplies nutrients and oxygen to the tissue until it can grow its own vessels.
Keeping the cells alive until they can establish their own blood supply has been the major impediment in past attempts to produce bladders. The omentum seems to have overcome this difficulty, said Dr. Tony Khoury of the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.
The study's patients all had spina bifida, the result of a birth defect that leads to incomplete closure of the spine. Their bladder tissue is hard, causing high pressures to build up and be transmitted to the kidney, where they cause kidney damage. They also have urinary leakage.
Atala's team transplanted artificial bladders in nine children from 4 to 19 years old. Two of the patients dropped out of the study and could not be followed. In each of the seven patients studied, however, the tissue functioned successfully, ballooning as real bladders do up to 10 times the normal size as it filled, without increasing pressure. The bladders also stopped leakage.
The patients were studied for an average of 4.6 years.
"We have to make sure the vessels last a long time," Atala said. "We've already shown that in animals, and now we have shown it in humans." The technology was developed by Atala when he was at Boston Children's Hospital and that institution holds a patent on the process. The patent was licensed in 2003 to Tengion, Inc. of King of Prussia, Pa.
(c) 2006 Cincinnati Post. Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.
-
Scientists Grow Human Bladders
Posted on: Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 06:00 CDT redorbit.com
By Thomas H. Maugh II
In a major advance toward the development of artificial organs, bladders made by growing a patient's own cells in the laboratory have been successfully implanted in seven children with spina bifida and shown to function for five years or longer, researchers announced today.
The achievement, reported online in the medical journal the Lancet, marks the first time that artificial organs more complicated than skin and bone have been implanted in humans. It brings much closer the day when scientists will grow new organs for people who have lost them to disease or injury. Clinical trials of the bladder- building process could begin later this year. The team that invented it is using the same method to grow blood vessels, kidneys, livers and other organs -- some of which have already been implanted in animals.
The bladder is a much simpler organ than a liver or a kidney, but the success of the artificial tissues in humans suggests that it may be possible to grow complicated organs and reduce the backlog of patients waiting for replacement organs.
An estimated 54,200 Americans develop bladder cancer each year, and treatment often entails removal of the bladder. Others lose their bladders as a result of congenital defects, diseases, accidents, diabetes and heavy metal poisoning.
Surgeons now replace the bladder by building a fluid reservoir using tissue from the bowel, but that produces many problems, including re-absorption of toxins, formation of stones, and kidney damage due to pressure buildup in the reservoir.
Dr. Anthony Atala and colleagues at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine have been working to overcome this problem by growing bladder cells in the laboratory, then seeding them onto a polymer scaffold shaped like a bladder.
They begin by removing a small piece of bladder, about half the size of a postage stamp. The tissue has three layers: muscle on the outside, a collagen supporting layer in the center, and specialized urothelial cells on the inside to hold the urine.
The team isolates the muscle and urothelial cells and grows them in the lab for about 30 days. The cells are not stem cells, but "progenitor" cells, which have the capacity to grow only into other bladder cells.
Meanwhile, using CT imaging of the patient to determine the size of the bladder, they construct a scaffolding of a biodegradable polymer. The muscle and urothelial cells are seeded onto the exterior and interior of the scaffold and the construct grown in an incubator for another two to three weeks.
Surgeons then remove scarred and diseased tissue from the patient's own bladder and use the artificial tissue to rebuild the organ. As the final step, they wrap the new organ in omentum, a membrane from the interior of the abdomen rich in blood vessels that supplies nutrients and oxygen to the tissue until it can grow its own vessels.
Keeping the cells alive until they can establish their own blood supply has been the major impediment in past attempts to produce bladders. The omentum seems to have overcome this difficulty, said Dr. Tony Khoury of the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.
The study's patients all had spina bifida, the result of a birth defect that leads to incomplete closure of the spine. Their bladder tissue is hard, causing high pressures to build up and be transmitted to the kidney, where they cause kidney damage. They also have urinary leakage.
Atala's team transplanted artificial bladders in nine children from 4 to 19 years old. Two of the patients dropped out of the study and could not be followed. In each of the seven patients studied, however, the tissue functioned successfully, ballooning as real bladders do up to 10 times the normal size as it filled, without increasing pressure. The bladders also stopped leakage.
The patients were studied for an average of 4.6 years.
"We have to make sure the vessels last a long time," Atala said. "We've already shown that in animals, and now we have shown it in humans." The technology was developed by Atala when he was at Boston Children's Hospital and that institution holds a patent on the process. The patent was licensed in 2003 to Tengion, Inc. of King of Prussia, Pa.
(c) 2006 Cincinnati Post. Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1258.msg14847#msg14847 We talked about this here as well. :thumbup; It's an exciting time. So many great things on the horizon.
-
It is very important to remember that the decision to reject embryonic stem cell research on the basis that it destroys a life implies that every embryo that is lost during an in vitro fertilization procedure a destroyed life. This link presents an extremely well thought out analysis to embryonic stem cells.
http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2002dltr0026.html
-
seeing current research shows that stem cells can be derived from a patient's bone marrow, there is no need to debate the issue of embryonic stem cells any longer. the problem is, such a therapy is too close to a 'cure'- and that would decimate the economical benefits of keeping people alive with convential drugs, not to mention what it would do to the transplant industry, and the dialysis industry.
did you know that one of the very first light bulbs ever made is still burning? it was turned on over one hundred years ago, and has never once been turned off.
how long do your light bulbs last?
;)
-
Stem cells can be derived from adults but they still have antigens so each new organ would have to be carefully developed for each individual patient. The advantage of embryonic stem cells is that do not have antigens and only develop them in the presence of other tissues. With generic stem cells an industrial process could be developed to produce generic organs of several sizes to fit specifiic patients. In addition, every cell in the body has an internal clock that tells it when it will stop replicating. Telomeres form the internal clock and the analogy is that the telomere chain is a long chain of rings and each time the cell replicates a ring is removed leading to the end of replication when no more rings are left. If you use adult stem cells the kidney that you receive will be at least as old as you are and probably older as a result of the process necessary to reactive it. Only embryonic stem cells and cancer cells do not lose telomeres as they replicate so a kidney developed from embyronic stem cells would be much younger and probably more likely to outlast you (the normal goal of any transplant or implant). In addition, the added complexity of a method which would use adult stem cells would slow its development into a large scale effort. I don't disagree with you that some companies would like to keep their profits coming in but as a society there is absolutely no economic benefit to providing an expensive therapy to a patient population that is largely unable to work as a result of the deficiencies of that treatment.
With respect to that light bulb, it has lasted so long because it was never turned off and it is running at a very low temperature. If you ran one of today's incandescent bulbs under the same conditions it would probably last longer. The reason that we don't run them like that is that they give off very little light and and incredibly inefficient. I agree that some aspects of technology have left of worse off than before but in my opinion the advance of the light bulb to a brighter and immensely more efficient device is something we should all value.
-
well, seeing you have all the answers 'student'- i guess there's really no need for discussion on the subject.
if i ever want to know anything, i'll ask you.
;)
-
I think we have a stauffenberg junior. :lol;
-
I think we have a stauffenberg junior. :lol;
:yahoo; :clap; :bow; :boxing;
:beer1;
-
Stem cells may be the future but as of over 20 years of research embryonic stem cells have not cured anything. From my understanding all cures to date have been from adult stem cells.
-
well, seeing you have all the answers 'student'- i guess there's really no need for discussion on the subject.
if i ever want to know anything, i'll ask you.
;)
its good to hear from everyone in a discussion
-
depends on what they bring to the discussion.
if it's just pointing out how stupid you are, is that 'good'?
;)
-
I heard there's a lab in Japan where they grew a kidney from stem cells. But it was a mouse kidney, not human. I dream of the day this research will help us.
-
The future is on our side!
8)
-
I also hope for this day to come.. it will help so many.
However, I also have doubts. Like.. for one, we are already way over populating our planet...
"One of the prime motives for all species is to reproduce and survive, passing on the genetic information of the species from generation to generation. When species do this they tend to produce more offspring than the environment can support. The lack of resources to nourish these individuals places pressure on the size of the species population, and the lack of resources means increased competition and as a consequence, some organisms will not survive. The organisms who die as a consequence of this competition were not totally random, those organisms more suited to their environment were more likely to survive. This resulted in the well known phrase survival of the fittest, where the organisms most suited to their environment had more chance of survival if the species falls upon hard times. Those organisms who are better suited to their environment exhibit desirable characteristics, which is a consequence of their genome being more suitable to begin with."
It's like, were not letting natural selection occur... I think this is my only concern with it.. and I don't know why I have that concern, because I myself had 2 transplants now... so I am obviously not letting natural selection occur either... :lol;
So I just now officially confused myself.
-
Angela, while I see your point, I'm more willing to accept it on an "over many generations" level than when it's talking about me as an individual. Personally, when I hear they're able to grow a kidney out of my own cells (or whatever cells they have), I'll be the first in line! A transplant without the immunosuppressants and no chance of rejection, woo-hoo! Count me in!! :2thumbsup;
-
KTO930---I am right behind you in that line! :thumbup;
-
recent research in the states and japan have revealed a new method of obtaining stem cells that does not endanger a living fetus, but is derived and developed from human skin.
this frees up the funding for further research in the countries that previously resisted the forward movement of stem cell research due to the moral issues that embyonic stem cell research has been burdened with.
more cause for hope.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/11/20/stem.cells.skin/index.html
love
~LL~
-
recent research in the states and japan have revealed a new method of obtaining stem cells that does not endanger a living fetus, but is derived and developed from human skin.
I always knew those pimples were good for something!
8)
-
Wonder if that is what I got a glimpse of on the news last night before getting interrupted.
-
See story here http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=5926.0
-
Most estimates I have seen about when stem cell therapy will become an everyday clinical reality in the treatment of disease say we will have to wait another 50 years or so. Keep in mind that medicine advances at such a glacially slow pace, that even once a new therapy has become obvious and easy in the view of anyone with ordinary common sense, it will take medical science at least 20 years to develop it to the final standard of 'safety and effectiveness' for the FDA to approve its use in patients.
Take the example of benfotiamine, a harmless pill derived from thiamine, which is so safe that it does not even require a prescription. It has been available over-the-counter in Japan and Europe since 1959, and was discovered in 2003 to prevent the development of diabetic complications, which are among the most devastating causes of morbidity and mortality in the developed world today. Well, here we are, five years later, and the drug is still not available for treating diabetics in the US, and most diabetologists and endocrinologists in the US have never even heard of it!
As for the use of human embryonic stem cells being immoral, I think that rests on a mistake about how our culture values potential human life. Millions of fertilized ova and primordia are lost every year in the US from the spontaneous detachment of cells from the lining of the uterus, and yet this is not regarded as the major cause of death in America, as it would be if we really thought of those things as living people. We don't hold funerals for those detached ova, we don't go into mourning as they pour down the toilet, drowning horribly, and not a penny of medical research funds is devoted to reducing the problem. In short, we simply do not consider acorns to be oak trees.
-
As for the use of human embryonic stem cells being immoral, I think that rests on a mistake about how our culture values potential human life. Millions of fertilized ova and primordia are lost every year in the US from the spontaneous detachment of cells from the lining of the uterus, and yet this is not regarded as the major cause of death in America, as it would be if we really thought of those things as living people. We don't hold funerals for those detached ova, we don't go into mourning as they pour down the toilet, drowning horribly, and not a penny of medical research funds is devoted to reducing the problem. In short, we simply do not consider acorns to be oak trees.
Exactly.
-
As for the use of human embryonic stem cells being immoral, I think that rests on a mistake about how our culture values potential human life. Millions of fertilized ova and primordia are lost every year in the US from the spontaneous detachment of cells from the lining of the uterus, and yet this is not regarded as the major cause of death in America, as it would be if we really thought of those things as living people. We don't hold funerals for those detached ova, we don't go into mourning as they pour down the toilet, drowning horribly, and not a penny of medical research funds is devoted to reducing the problem. In short, we simply do not consider acorns to be oak trees.
Yet in over 20 years of them trying to use embryonic stem cells they have failed to show they cure anything. Cures and treatments to date from stem cells have come from adult stem cells. It may seem taht embryonic cells are not all they are claimed to be.
-
Hmmm... this is QUITE interesting. However, I have questions that I'm not sure can be answered lol
-
Being on dialysis, as most of you are. I pray for the day they discover a way to give us a kidney without having to take rejection medication. I hope they explore all the option embryonic and adult stem cells hopefully will be available for scientists with the adequate funding so that they have just as much resources as Scientists in other countries.
-
In the meantime, I hope you all will support Transplant Candidates Against Mandatory Motorcycle Helmet Laws in an effort to increase the donor population.
-
stem cell research took another step forward yesterday when a hospital in Toronto announced that researchers have found a way to deliver stem cells without using a virus, as was done previously. lookin good. hang in there, gang!
:guitar:
-
In the meantime, I hope you all will support Transplant Candidates Against Mandatory Motorcycle Helmet Laws in an effort to increase the donor population.
Another way to increase the donor population is to ask all your neighbors and co-workers to buy those Smart Fortwo minicars.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety did some test crashes of the Smart Fortwo against a regular-sized sedan, and found that the crash sent the Smart Fortwo "airborne."
The Smart Fortwo: The ideal car for kidney donors.
-
http://singularityhub.com/2009/06/08/growing-organs-in-the-lab/
:bandance;
-
off topic........ (sorry)
I don't feel comfortable in supporting something to make people die in a way that their brains are damaged.
I don't want to promote killing machines..... just too weird.
-
off topic........ (sorry)
I don't feel comfortable in supporting something to make people die in a way that their brains are damaged.
I don't want to promote killing machines..... just too weird.
?? are you actually talking about something? pretty random statement.
cars are killing machines, you know. ;)
-
I think Rightside was being sarcastic...
-
Hanify I think it was Des' statement.
As far as I have read about stem cells, there are many different methods to get stem cells. Some use embryonic stem cells from old donor eggs, stem cells from the umbilical cord, and adult stem cells. What's got people up in arms is the embryonic stem cells. There was two different ways of getting those, but now days the most common I am reading about is the ones used from donor eggs from fertility clinic that would basically be thrown out due to either age, person no longer wants them saved, or a malfunction in the cooling system, but still can be used for other medical purposes. The argument there is that people consider that they are still killing an unborn child and thus the argument begins.
-
In the meantime, I hope you all will support Transplant Candidates Against Mandatory Motorcycle Helmet Laws in an effort to increase the donor population.
Another way to increase the donor population is to ask all your neighbors and co-workers to buy those Smart Fortwo minicars.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety did some test crashes of the Smart Fortwo against a regular-sized sedan, and found that the crash sent the Smart Fortwo "airborne."
The Smart Fortwo: The ideal car for kidney donors.
?? are you actually talking about something? pretty random statement.
cars are killing machines, you know.
Yes I was talking about the "something" rightside posted see above quote.
Not so randum as I think as I was replying to a post? I know cars are killing machines but supporting one specific model because it guaranteed no protection when you have an accident so that somebody can get a kidney .....?
-
I think Rightside was being sarcastic...
Hanify.... I thought so too... but the thought of it was just weird. :)
-
I hope this becomes reality in my lifetime. When i was going to hospital for HD 3x4hrs a week, a dear old lady in there told me i should seriously think about staying on dialysis until this happens. She said 'you're young and dialysis ain't that bad'.
-
Being on dialysis, as most of you are. I pray for the day they discover a way to give us a kidney without having to take rejection medication. I hope they explore all the option embryonic and adult stem cells hopefully will be available for scientists with the adequate funding so that they have just as much resources as Scientists in other countries.
You know, I was just reading that Stanford and one other clinic have had trials where they not only get a kidney from the donor but also stem cells from the donor's bone marrow (no worries about embryonic stem cells here). Before the transplant, the donor's stems cells are injected into the recipient. The gist of it is that the recipieint's immune system is transformed so that it will not see the new organ as a hostile body. By the way, this stem cell treatment isn't just being done for kidneys but for other organ transplants as well.
After six months, doctors were able to entirely ween the patient off all immunosuppressive drugs. :o
I hope this becomes done more and more.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123125623.htm
-
This is the kind of medical breakthrough I'm looking towards! I would have a much better chance of being allowed a transplant if there aren't immunosuppressants involved. Imagine that! These people who give their lives to this research are amazing. As well as the people that let them try things on them!
-
This is the link to the Stanford study where the donor doesn't even have to be a relative and the recipient can be taken off immunosuppressant drugs after receiving stem cell treatment.
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2002/april24/kidney-424.html
Stanford is recruiting candidates for a clinical trial too.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00319657
-
Found this article, but it's not about stem cells.
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/08/wearable_artificial_kidney.html
My problem is I have a bad habit of losing my belts!
-
To my knowledge and response to researched literature -- the actual re-growing of a kidney is yet to be in reach at this time -- it is still at the lab. stage. (On the other hand we do know that it was done with "Dolly")
In the meantime - stem cell therapy is becoming more popular by the week. In fact, my partner, Victor is planning to receive stem cells late February. During a conference call with the clinic it was explained that currently, stem cells with accompanying tissue is applied in the area of the kidney and the result is improved function of existing and functioning filtering fibers. The treatment does not "regenerate" cells - ie. it increases the efficiency of the working cells. He has been informed that he can expect to increase his current renal function by 50%.
Everlasting - Advocate for Victor
-
I got to talk with a nephrologist from UCDavis and asked him about stem cells.
Unfortunately, any research is still really in its infancy and won't be widely available any time soon. Still we can hope.