Stem cells/growing a new kidney

[BigSky]

Whatever you think of the US government's policy toward embryonic stem cell research, it has caused a major increase in research with other types of stem cells.

Very true. 

One huge problem is when the US government gets into funding such stuff the it tends to drag along because those doing the science do not feel the need to produce results as fast because the government is funding it.

[nkviking75]

I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.

With all due respect, you make two assumptions are questionable: 1) That it's not a life, a statement you can't prove without some arbitrary definition of life;  and 2) that a woman owns her embryos, which assumes that a father has no rights to his offspring.  Adult stem cells are more promising from what I understand, and they don't carry all that moral baggage.  I think scarce resources would be better directed that way.

[angieskidney]

I agree with nkviking75 about being against using dead babies. I have heard about all this since I was in College (1997) and even though I hope for a kidney one day that would not reject I would not want any part of anything from aborted babies.

[Panda_9]

I dont have anything against abortion if its done for a good reason.

[waitlisted]

I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.

With all due respect, you make two assumptions are questionable: 1) That it's not a life, a statement you can't prove without some arbitrary definition of life;  and 2) that a woman owns her embryos, which assumes that a father has no rights to his offspring.  Adult stem cells are more promising from what I understand, and they don't carry all that moral baggage.  I think scarce resources would be better directed that way.

I am not a specialist on stem cell research, but US National Institute of Health had following answer on their FAQ list:

Why not use adult stem cells instead of using human embryonic stem cells in research?
Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater developmental potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic stem cells may be pluripotent—that is, able to give rise to cells found in all tissues of the embryo except for germ cells rather than being merely multipotent—restricted to specific subpopulations of cell types, as adult stem cells are thought to be.

Of course there is some research ethic issue with using embryonic stem cells, but many countries in the world have allowed their usage on the research.

It might be also true that private funding might push research to the faster result, I don't know. However in my opinion there could be more federal funding on the health care and research. The annual federal funding increase for National Institute of Health for has been going down last couple of years at the same as the annual federal funding increase for Department of Homeland Security has been rising to new records. Is this OK...? Now this is getting too political so better to stop.

[nkviking75]

I dont see a problem with using embryos, as long as the woman who owns them is ok with it. After all its not a life, its just cells. If its going to save lives or make them better Im all for it.

With all due respect, you make two assumptions are questionable: 1) That it's not a life, a statement you can't prove without some arbitrary definition of life;  and 2) that a woman owns her embryos, which assumes that a father has no rights to his offspring.  Adult stem cells are more promising from what I understand, and they don't carry all that moral baggage.  I think scarce resources would be better directed that way.

I am not a specialist on stem cell research, but US National Institute of Health had following answer on their FAQ list:

Why not use adult stem cells instead of using human embryonic stem cells in research?
Human embryonic stem cells are thought to have much greater developmental potential than adult stem cells. This means that embryonic stem cells may be pluripotent—that is, able to give rise to cells found in all tissues of the embryo except for germ cells rather than being merely multipotent—restricted to specific subpopulations of cell types, as adult stem cells are thought to be.

Of course there is some research ethic issue with using embryonic stem cells, but many countries in the world have allowed their usage on the research.

It might be also true that private funding might push research to the faster result, I don't know. However in my opinion there could be more federal funding on the health care and research. The annual federal funding increase for National Institute of Health for has been going down last couple of years at the same as the annual federal funding increase for Department of Homeland Security has been rising to new records. Is this OK...? Now this is getting too political so better to stop.

Anyone interested enough to pursue this issue with an open mind should consider this position paper from the Christian Medical and Dental Society:  http://www.cmdahome.org/index.cgi?BISKIT=1898896056&CONTEXT=art&art=2702  .  It is a fairly long piece and heavily footnoted, and I can't possibly do an adequate job of summing it up here.  I will say that the hype is being given to embryonic stem cells, but therapies already exist based on adult stem cells.  If the day comes when I can donate my own stem cells so they cqn grow me a kidney, it won't be a great moral dilemma.

My compliments to all on a respectful, dignified discussion.

[waitlisted]

If organization's name is Christian xxxx, this would automatically make me think that their opinions might be biased and I would think that opinions form National Institute of Health would be more neutral.

Anyway in the free world everyone is entitled to express his/her own opinion and all discussion is good, without that nothing will ever change.

For anyone interested reading more about the ethics of human embryonic stem cell research here is one article from the International Society for Stem Cell Research, an independent, nonprofit organization formed in 2002 to foster the exchange of information on stem cell research. http://stemcells.nih.gov/ExternalLinkDictionary/www.isscr.org/public/ethics.htm

[nkviking75]

If organization's name is Christian xxxx, this would automatically make me think that their opinions might be biased and I would think that opinions form National Institute of Health would be more neutral.

It would be unfortunate for you to make that assumption.  If you go to the link I provided, you'll find reasoned arguments, footnotes so you can do your own follow-up research, and nary a Bible verse in sight.  "Christian scientist" is not an oxymoron.  It would also be a mistake to assume that scientists are always fair and unbiased, even in a government agency.

[Zach]

I wonder if scientists could take skin "ticks" and grow them into something useful?     

[angieskidney]

If organization's name is Christian xxxx, this would automatically make me think that their opinions might be biased and I would think that opinions form National Institute of Health would be more neutral.

It would be unfortunate for you to make that assumption.  If you go to the link I provided, you'll find reasoned arguments, footnotes so you can do your own follow-up research, and nary a Bible verse in sight.  "Christian scientist" is not an oxymoron.  It would also be a mistake to assume that scientists are always fair and unbiased, even in a government agency.

EXACTLY!!

[AlasdairUK]

I do not have any problem using any form of stem cells.

[okarol]

Scientists Grow Human Bladders

Posted on: Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 06:00 CDT redorbit.com

By Thomas H. Maugh II

In a major advance toward the development of artificial organs, bladders made by growing a patient's own cells in the laboratory have been successfully implanted in seven children with spina bifida and shown to function for five years or longer, researchers announced today.

The achievement, reported online in the medical journal the Lancet, marks the first time that artificial organs more complicated than skin and bone have been implanted in humans. It brings much closer the day when scientists will grow new organs for people who have lost them to disease or injury. Clinical trials of the bladder- building process could begin later this year. The team that invented it is using the same method to grow blood vessels, kidneys, livers and other organs -- some of which have already been implanted in animals.

The bladder is a much simpler organ than a liver or a kidney, but the success of the artificial tissues in humans suggests that it may be possible to grow complicated organs and reduce the backlog of patients waiting for replacement organs.

An estimated 54,200 Americans develop bladder cancer each year, and treatment often entails removal of the bladder. Others lose their bladders as a result of congenital defects, diseases, accidents, diabetes and heavy metal poisoning.

Surgeons now replace the bladder by building a fluid reservoir using tissue from the bowel, but that produces many problems, including re-absorption of toxins, formation of stones, and kidney damage due to pressure buildup in the reservoir.

Dr. Anthony Atala and colleagues at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine have been working to overcome this problem by growing bladder cells in the laboratory, then seeding them onto a polymer scaffold shaped like a bladder.

They begin by removing a small piece of bladder, about half the size of a postage stamp. The tissue has three layers: muscle on the outside, a collagen supporting layer in the center, and specialized urothelial cells on the inside to hold the urine.

The team isolates the muscle and urothelial cells and grows them in the lab for about 30 days. The cells are not stem cells, but "progenitor" cells, which have the capacity to grow only into other bladder cells.

Meanwhile, using CT imaging of the patient to determine the size of the bladder, they construct a scaffolding of a biodegradable polymer. The muscle and urothelial cells are seeded onto the exterior and interior of the scaffold and the construct grown in an incubator for another two to three weeks.

Surgeons then remove scarred and diseased tissue from the patient's own bladder and use the artificial tissue to rebuild the organ. As the final step, they wrap the new organ in omentum, a membrane from the interior of the abdomen rich in blood vessels that supplies nutrients and oxygen to the tissue until it can grow its own vessels.

Keeping the cells alive until they can establish their own blood supply has been the major impediment in past attempts to produce bladders. The omentum seems to have overcome this difficulty, said Dr. Tony Khoury of the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.

The study's patients all had spina bifida, the result of a birth defect that leads to incomplete closure of the spine. Their bladder tissue is hard, causing high pressures to build up and be transmitted to the kidney, where they cause kidney damage. They also have urinary leakage.

Atala's team transplanted artificial bladders in nine children from 4 to 19 years old. Two of the patients dropped out of the study and could not be followed. In each of the seven patients studied, however, the tissue functioned successfully, ballooning as real bladders do up to 10 times the normal size as it filled, without increasing pressure. The bladders also stopped leakage.

The patients were studied for an average of 4.6 years.

"We have to make sure the vessels last a long time," Atala said. "We've already shown that in animals, and now we have shown it in humans." The technology was developed by Atala when he was at Boston Children's Hospital and that institution holds a patent on the process. The patent was licensed in 2003 to Tengion, Inc. of King of Prussia, Pa.

(c) 2006 Cincinnati Post. Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.

[Epoman]

Scientists Grow Human Bladders

Posted on: Wednesday, 5 April 2006, 06:00 CDT redorbit.com

By Thomas H. Maugh II

In a major advance toward the development of artificial organs, bladders made by growing a patient's own cells in the laboratory have been successfully implanted in seven children with spina bifida and shown to function for five years or longer, researchers announced today.

The achievement, reported online in the medical journal the Lancet, marks the first time that artificial organs more complicated than skin and bone have been implanted in humans. It brings much closer the day when scientists will grow new organs for people who have lost them to disease or injury. Clinical trials of the bladder- building process could begin later this year. The team that invented it is using the same method to grow blood vessels, kidneys, livers and other organs -- some of which have already been implanted in animals.

The bladder is a much simpler organ than a liver or a kidney, but the success of the artificial tissues in humans suggests that it may be possible to grow complicated organs and reduce the backlog of patients waiting for replacement organs.

An estimated 54,200 Americans develop bladder cancer each year, and treatment often entails removal of the bladder. Others lose their bladders as a result of congenital defects, diseases, accidents, diabetes and heavy metal poisoning.

Surgeons now replace the bladder by building a fluid reservoir using tissue from the bowel, but that produces many problems, including re-absorption of toxins, formation of stones, and kidney damage due to pressure buildup in the reservoir.

Dr. Anthony Atala and colleagues at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine have been working to overcome this problem by growing bladder cells in the laboratory, then seeding them onto a polymer scaffold shaped like a bladder.

They begin by removing a small piece of bladder, about half the size of a postage stamp. The tissue has three layers: muscle on the outside, a collagen supporting layer in the center, and specialized urothelial cells on the inside to hold the urine.

The team isolates the muscle and urothelial cells and grows them in the lab for about 30 days. The cells are not stem cells, but "progenitor" cells, which have the capacity to grow only into other bladder cells.

Meanwhile, using CT imaging of the patient to determine the size of the bladder, they construct a scaffolding of a biodegradable polymer. The muscle and urothelial cells are seeded onto the exterior and interior of the scaffold and the construct grown in an incubator for another two to three weeks.

Surgeons then remove scarred and diseased tissue from the patient's own bladder and use the artificial tissue to rebuild the organ. As the final step, they wrap the new organ in omentum, a membrane from the interior of the abdomen rich in blood vessels that supplies nutrients and oxygen to the tissue until it can grow its own vessels.

Keeping the cells alive until they can establish their own blood supply has been the major impediment in past attempts to produce bladders. The omentum seems to have overcome this difficulty, said Dr. Tony Khoury of the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.

The study's patients all had spina bifida, the result of a birth defect that leads to incomplete closure of the spine. Their bladder tissue is hard, causing high pressures to build up and be transmitted to the kidney, where they cause kidney damage. They also have urinary leakage.

Atala's team transplanted artificial bladders in nine children from 4 to 19 years old. Two of the patients dropped out of the study and could not be followed. In each of the seven patients studied, however, the tissue functioned successfully, ballooning as real bladders do up to 10 times the normal size as it filled, without increasing pressure. The bladders also stopped leakage.

The patients were studied for an average of 4.6 years.

"We have to make sure the vessels last a long time," Atala said. "We've already shown that in animals, and now we have shown it in humans." The technology was developed by Atala when he was at Boston Children's Hospital and that institution holds a patent on the process. The patent was licensed in 2003 to Tengion, Inc. of King of Prussia, Pa.

(c) 2006 Cincinnati Post. Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1258.msg14847#msg14847 We talked about this here as well.  It's an exciting time. So many great things on the horizon.

[BIEN Student]

It is very important to remember that the decision to reject embryonic stem cell research on the basis that it destroys a life implies that every embryo that is lost during an in vitro fertilization procedure a destroyed life.  This link presents an extremely well thought out analysis to embryonic stem cells.

http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2002dltr0026.html

[LightLizard]

seeing current research shows that stem cells can be derived from a patient's bone marrow, there is no need to debate the issue of embryonic stem cells any longer. the problem is, such a therapy is too close to a 'cure'- and that would decimate the economical benefits of keeping people alive with convential drugs, not to mention what it would do to the transplant industry, and the dialysis industry.

did you know that one of the very first light bulbs ever made is still burning? it was turned on over one hundred years ago, and has never once been turned off.

how long do your light bulbs last?

[BIEN Student]

Stem cells can be derived from adults but they still have antigens so each new organ would have to be carefully developed for each individual patient.  The advantage of embryonic stem cells is that do not have antigens and only develop them in the presence of other tissues.  With generic stem cells an industrial process could be developed to produce generic organs of several sizes to fit specifiic patients.  In addition, every cell in the body has an internal clock that tells it when it will stop replicating.  Telomeres form the internal clock and the analogy is that the telomere chain is a long chain of rings and each time the cell replicates a ring is removed leading to the end of replication when no more rings are left.  If you use adult stem cells the kidney that you receive will be at least as old as you are and probably older as a result of the process necessary to reactive it.  Only embryonic stem cells and cancer cells do not lose telomeres as they replicate so a kidney developed from embyronic stem cells would be much younger and probably more likely to outlast you (the normal goal of any transplant or implant).  In addition, the added complexity of a method which would use adult stem cells would slow its development into a large scale effort.  I don't disagree with you that some companies would like to keep their profits coming in but as a society there is absolutely no economic benefit to providing an expensive therapy to a patient population that is largely unable to work as a result of the deficiencies of that treatment. 

With respect to that light bulb, it has lasted so long because it was never turned off and it is running at a very low temperature.  If you ran one of today's incandescent bulbs under the same conditions it would probably last longer.  The reason that we don't run them like that is that they give off very little light and and incredibly inefficient.  I agree that some aspects of technology have left of worse off than before but in my opinion the advance of the light bulb to a brighter and immensely more efficient device is something we should all value.

[LightLizard]

well, seeing you have all the answers 'student'- i guess there's really no need for discussion on the subject.

if i ever want to know anything, i'll ask you.

[Sara]

I think we have a stauffenberg junior.   

[LightLizard]

I think we have a stauffenberg junior.   

 

[BigSky]

Stem cells may be the future but as of over 20 years of research embryonic stem cells have not cured anything.  From my understanding all cures to date have been from adult stem cells.

[glitter]

well, seeing you have all the answers 'student'- i guess there's really no need for discussion on the subject.

if i ever want to know anything, i'll ask you.

its good to hear from everyone in a discussion

[LightLizard]

depends on what they bring to the discussion.

if it's just pointing out how stupid you are, is that 'good'?

[Jannie]

I heard there's a lab in Japan where they grew a kidney from stem cells. But it was a mouse kidney, not human. I dream of the day this research will help us.

[Zach]

The future is on our side!
 

[angela515]

I also hope for this day to come.. it will help so many.

However, I also have doubts. Like.. for one, we are already way over populating our planet...

"One of the prime motives for all species is to reproduce and survive, passing on the genetic information of the species from generation to generation. When species do this they tend to produce more offspring than the environment can support. The lack of resources to nourish these individuals places pressure on the size of the species population, and the lack of resources means increased competition and as a consequence, some organisms will not survive. The organisms who die as a consequence of this competition were not totally random, those organisms more suited to their environment were more likely to survive. This resulted in the well known phrase survival of the fittest, where the organisms most suited to their environment had more chance of survival if the species falls upon hard times. Those organisms who are better suited to their environment exhibit desirable characteristics, which is a consequence of their genome being more suitable to begin with."

It's like, were not letting natural selection occur... I think this is my only concern with it.. and I don't know why I have that concern, because I myself had 2 transplants now... so I am obviously not letting natural selection occur either... 

So I just now officially confused myself.