I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: Transplant Discussion => Topic started by: MrNaturalAZ on July 03, 2017, 07:05:26 PM

Title: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on July 03, 2017, 07:05:26 PM
At my last nephrologist appointment, one of the nephs told me that he would try to get me a transplant evaluation. He said that he's on the TX committee for several programs, and while most of them don't like to take Medicare-only patients, he'd put in a good word and see what he could do. While I was a bit surprised (prior to that time, we've had no discussion of TX nor even D) and rather pleased, I didn't really know what to expect. He also told me that, in his estimation, I'll almost certainly need some sort of RRT before the end of the year (FWIW, my eGFR has been fluctuating in the 15-20 range, creatinine 3.5-4.0). I'm not sure if he's hoping for a pre-emptive transplant, or this is just the order things are usually done in.

Anyhow, fast-forward a month to last week - I get a call from Mayo Clinic (based on their reputation, they'd probably be my first choice) to set up a transplant evaluation!  The call was mostly a lot of questions about my basic health history. And  I've been almost unable to think clearly since. Of course now I have a ton of questions, so I will try to make some sense here and hopefully be able to get some information from those who have gone before me.

First off - has anyone else here have recent experience with the transplant program at Mayo in Phoenix?

And a general question. I assume the evaluation is primarily to determine my medical suitability to receive a transplanted organ - general health, risks, compatibility metrics, etc. That said, am I also being "evaluated" for my worthiness? will they be critiquing non-medically-significant lifestyle choices, personality, appearance, etc? I imagine they also want to feel satisfied that I'll be capable of the necessary responsibility and compliance, so I expect some sort of personality or psychological component to the evaluation, but is it going to end up more like a job interview or popularity contest than a medical evaluation?

What sorts of tests and questions can I expect? Especially, what sorts of things will I be surprised by - things that they'll want to know or test that I wouldn't be expecting?

Are the results usually "pass/fail"? In other words, accepted or not, and if not, I just go somewhere else and start from scratch? Or, if I don't meet the criteria, but the deficiency is something that can be corrected, will I have the opportunity to do so?

Any obvious disqualifications? Things that will absolutely prevent me from ever getting a transplant?

At this point, the ball's in my court. I need to get a colonoscopy before things can move along. I'm told it's required for anyone over 50. I'm sure I'll have more questions; I'll post again to this thread as I think of them, or as other people's answers prompt more questions from me (as I'm sure they will).

Oh... and maybe a dumb question, but.... is there any reason why one would not want to have a transplant if given the opportunity? Has anyone here had the option, but decided they'd rather start/stay on dialysis?





EDITED:  Revised 3 exact posts to just one - Rerun, ADMIN.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Rerun on July 03, 2017, 07:28:13 PM
Yes it will be quite a process.  Lots of tests.  Do you want a transplant prior to starting dialysis?

Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on July 03, 2017, 07:47:52 PM
(sorry about the multiple posts - it seemed not to be working from my end for some reason - thanx for fixing it.)

Do you want a transplant prior to starting dialysis?

I don't know, really. Is there any reason I wouldn't? OTOH, if I'm going to need something by the end of the year, how likely would it be that I'd actually get a transplant by then (unless I already have a potential compatible live donor)? I'm thinking there's a good likelihood I'll end up on dialysis for at least a while. Or not? How common are pre-emptive transplants? I read/hear of people waiting for years for a kidney.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Rerun on July 03, 2017, 08:00:00 PM
Well, it looks like you will need one down the road and if they can get you one before the hassle of dialysis that would be good.  It is just all the tests they make you go through and then the next year you have more of the same tests.  Each test gets them a payment.  So just question each test and  good luck.

There are others on this site who can give you better information then me.  They have had preemptive transplants. 

I got my transplant in 1987 and it lasted 17 years.  It just wasn't as compacted back then and I was younger.  HAHA  Now I don't put up with ANY of their crap.  So for thinking about doing a second transplant and they wanted to do a "heart Cath" ...  for no good reason....  I said no. 
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: justagirl2325 on July 04, 2017, 06:28:36 AM
I'm Canadian so our experience is different but my husband has just finished the TX evaluations, it took three years to get him listed in Canada.  There were so many delays in the beginning as we didn't realize nothing would be done unless we pushed everyone, then there were medical delays from his health but finally listed.

We were also told that he would have to see a social worker and answer questions but it was very informal.  They basically just asked him about his life; what does he do now, before, will do after transplant, what does he miss, smoke, drink etc. 

You can read his story in the transplant section as he is going for a kidney and a pancreas transplant. 

My advice is to get listed as soon as you can.

Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: KarenInWA on July 04, 2017, 07:23:09 AM
One thing to keep in mind is this - once you're transplanted, sun protection is going to be of the utmost importance. With the meds you have to take, you are at high risk of skin cancer. Living in AZ means you'll really have to take precautions. Of course, I come from the Seattle area, where we have a higher rate of skin cancer than most, because we don't know how to react to the sun  :rofl;

KarenInWA
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: cattlekid on July 04, 2017, 10:20:26 AM
As much as we might like to believe otherwise, to me there was a "worthiness" component to the evaluation.  The first of course, will be the financial worthiness.  The transplant team will make sure that you are financially capable of taking care of your transplant.  As we all know, in the US you qualify for Medicare for only 36 months post-transplant unless you qualify for reasons other than ESRD.  So your team will want to know that you will have a financial means of paying for your anti-rejection drugs after Medicare ends. 

Secondly, there *is* a psychological/social component to the evaluation.  You will most likely have to have someone come with you to the evaluation as a "care partner".  At my evaluation, the social worker spoke to both my husband (my "care partner") and I separately.  I was doing home hemo at the time and my psychological evaluation lasted about three minutes.  In the words of the social worker, if I had the gumption and organization to do home hemo, she had no issues with me being compliant with the requirements for post-transplant care. 

To be honest, the medical portion of the evaluation wasn't that long.  I started with Northwestern in Chicago and all we did was have short exam plus a review of my medical records.  Then they handed me a list of tests and told me that I had to have them all completed within 6 months.  I started scheduling appointments from the parking lot after the evaluation and got them all done in the course of about eight weeks.  Once I switched centers to University of Wisconsin, they took all of the tests from Northwestern so I just had some blood work and the financial/social worker interviews.

And a general question. I assume the evaluation is primarily to determine my medical suitability to receive a transplanted organ - general health, risks, compatibility metrics, etc. That said, am I also being "evaluated" for my worthiness? will they be critiquing non-medically-significant lifestyle choices, personality, appearance, etc? I imagine they also want to feel satisfied that I'll be capable of the necessary responsibility and compliance, so I expect some sort of personality or psychological component to the evaluation, but is it going to end up more like a job interview or popularity contest than a medical evaluation?

What sorts of tests and questions can I expect? Especially, what sorts of things will I be surprised by - things that they'll want to know or test that I wouldn't be expecting?
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: smartcookie on July 05, 2017, 07:07:21 AM
Transplant is certainly a process.  I am in SC so most of my experience is with the Medical University of SC in Charleston.  In men over 50 they usually ask for colonoscopy, PSA blood test and cardiac testing.  Other basic tests include teeth cleaning, a physical by your primary physician, and any additional testing from problems found in the previous tests. 

There is a component of "worthiness."  They want to make sure you are going to take care of a kidney and not reject due to poor compliance.  In this aspect, they are not going to look so much at your personality, but that you have the capacity and drive to take your medications on time, come to all your appointments and a care partner to help you with this immediately after surgery since you may not be able to do that yourself.  They look for psychological triggers that could keep you from doing your best with your kidney, like psychosis, dementia, hallucinations, severe depression and anxiety.  If you have any mental illness, let them know the treatment you have completed and how you keep a check on it, like with medications or counseling.  Your appearance will not have much to do with it, unless you come in and haven't bathed for two months or something crazy like that. 

I wish you luck with your journey!!  I hope you get a preemptive transplant and never have to do dialysis!
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: iolaire on July 05, 2017, 08:38:18 AM
Any obvious disqualifications? Things that will absolutely prevent me from ever getting a transplant?

These days marijuana seems to be a major hang up for transplant teams.  From what I've read here its related to some sort of fungus.

cattlekid's outline is good

I've been listed fresh once and then transferred my time to another hospital.  In both there was a day of meetings of about 4 hours, plus lab work. The a scheduler scheduled all the tests I needed over a few days, very soon after the initial meeting.

I feel like you should know if you will have challenges getting listed, the interviews all related to the basic functions that would help identify if you would treat your kidney and body well and help it last.  i.e. do you have a method to pay for the transplant co-pays, and will you have insurance once Medicare ends, are you able to manage your medical conditions (including the social (i.e. can someone help you if you are bed ridden for six months) /mental part)?

The doctors comment about Medicare seems odd, unless you don't have a backup policy - if so the worry is how will you pay the 20% co-pay and how will you pay for the immunosuppressants once you move off of the dialysis related Medicare?  GW University Hospital claimed they love Medicare patients because of the bulk payments they get once the transplant happens.

I have healthy stable employed lifestyle with a wife and breezed through the process both times.  But I've read about people needing to address weight issues prior to listing, or getting heart issues fixed in advance.  I'd expect that active mental health issues would need to be worked on as well.

I expect if you were to get rejected they would provide you with some guidance of what you need to do to get accepted and would welcome you back once you addressed their concerns.  Plus likely you could try to find another local hospital that might overlook something the first hospital didn't like.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: smartcookie on July 05, 2017, 11:15:42 AM
Speaking to why someone would not want a transplant, the most common answers I get is "I am too old," "I don't want surgery," and "I feel good on dialysis and don't want to mess that up."
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: kickingandscreaming on July 05, 2017, 11:31:43 AM
Quote
Speaking to why someone would not want a transplant, the most common answers I get is "I am too old," "I don't want surgery," and "I feel good on dialysis and don't want to mess that up."

Another reason is that you don't have a care partner and/or don't want to be taking anti-rejection meds for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 13, 2017, 12:20:21 PM
Wow... it's been a while. I apologise for leaving folks hanging, as it were, and not at least following up with thanks for the advice and comments so far. It so happens that I've had a sort-of perfect storm of (unrelated) medical events, which has necessitated pushing back my evaluation. But things are finally moving along; my first appointment is set for next Wednesday. I'm excited and nervous. And it doesn't help that it's two hours away and an early AM appointment, meaning I'll be having to be up and on the road before it's even light out.

Quote from: kickingandscreaming
Another reason is that you don't have a care partner and/or don't want to be taking anti-rejection meds for the rest of your life.

I am single and live alone, which could complicate things, but I do have a close friend who has agreed to be my care partner (caretaker?) during my recovery. Presumably that commitment will be sufficient for the transplant team, as long as they know someone will be with me for however long it takes post-op until I am able to fend for myself again.

Quote from: smartcookie
Your appearance will not have much to do with it, unless you come in and haven't bathed for two months or something crazy like that.

Well, "something crazy" might be in the eye/mind of the beholder. I am a bit concerned on this point. I don't wear shoes (don't even own any) - I am always barefooted - primarily for religious reasons but also health and comfort (does wonders for posture and back pain, I've learned). Unfortunately, in modern society, footwear is understood to be a mandatory part of the "uniform" and public barefootedness is an unspoken taboo in the minds of many. And if that's not unusual enough, I also don't wear trousers, opting instead for kilts as a matter of style, comfort, and practicality.

Part of me wonders if this isn't important enough that I should go against my own beliefs and principles and "dress the part" of a "normal" person so as to avoid the extra scrutiny. OTOH, I'd like to think that authenticity should count for something, and be worthy of some amount of respect. I would expect a reasonable discussion of bare feet presenting a possible risk of infection (in reality, it is nowhere near as risky as most people think, and to be honest, I've not had any problems so far in any medical environment beyond friendly curiosity) but I'd hope nobody there is narrow-minded enough to summarily reject me because of my beliefs and choice of attire.

I'm leaning towards going as myself, not putting on false airs, and putting my faith in others respecting my authenticity, but I'd be curious to read anyone else's opinon on the matter.

In other news, I've already had three offers from potential live donors. Of course at this point, they are no more than generous offers until/unless they are tested and determined to be eligible and a suitable match. But still it gives me hope and warm fuzzies all the same.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: kickingandscreaming on October 13, 2017, 01:44:20 PM
I guess it depends on how much you want a kidney.  You are the petitioner here for a very rare and valuable "commodity."  There are enough potential reasons for rejection without the barefoot/kilt issue.  I'm all for "authenticity," but maybe it's not so wise in this instance.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MooseMom on October 13, 2017, 02:24:39 PM
I have to agree with k&s about the shoes.  When you go for your evaluation, there will be other patients at the clinic who may have already had a new transplant and will be newly immunosuppressed, so I'd think that you'd want to take their needs into consideration, particularly since you put a premium on being respected, you know?.  Going barefoot might be interpreted as being "selfish" rather than being "authentic".  Why take the risk?

A friend who has committed to looking after you post-op should be good enough.  They just want to know that you can get to your post-op appointments.  I'm assuming this friend is willing to drive you to your tx clinic each week for the first month or so?

My tx clinic is two hours away, and I've had many an early AM appointment.  The good thing is that we made great time because there was hardly any traffic!  Maybe this will be the case for you, too.

Good luck!!  I hope all goes well for you.  If you have any more questions before your appointment we might be able to answer for you, do let us know!  I'm excited for you!  :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: iolaire on October 13, 2017, 02:38:48 PM
Before debating it too much call the transplant people and be upfront about your religious needs and ask what kind of accommodation they can assist with and what accommodation they need from you.   

I don't think you need to hide it but rather work with them.

It sounds like you have had other medical issues. During that time were the medical teams able to accommodate you?  Nevermind you answered this already.  So that's good. Still I recommend talking about it in advance so they have some time to talk about you and get over the initial shock and so they know you are trying to help.   
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: cattlekid on October 13, 2017, 05:08:21 PM
I'm concerned about the no shoes thing, as well as your profile tag line of "tree hugging dirt worshipper".  Honestly, the dirt is most likely going to be an issue with your transplant team.  I would be extremely up front with them about your lifestyle.  I am saying this from the perspective that I was told I couldn't even mow my own lawn or pull weeds without a mask and gloves for at least a few months after transplant.  Your immune system will be forever changed and you will have to be on immunosuppressive medications for the rest of your life.  So there is the very real possibility that you could fall to an infection that you would have never affected you before.  The last thing I think you would want is to hide something about yourself in order to get a kidney, only to revert back to that behavior and lose the kidney. 

Just my rambling thoughts...
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 13, 2017, 11:22:07 PM
I guess it depends on how much you want a kidney.  You are the petitioner here for a very rare and valuable "commodity."  There are enough potential reasons for rejection without the barefoot/kilt issue.  I'm all for "authenticity," but maybe it's not so wise in this instance.

Perhaps, but then again, i expect I'll be interacting frequently with the team, over an extended period of time (months to years) - that would mean having to maintain such a charade, else undergo a sudden, drastic, and permanent lifestyle change. I am, of course, willing to make legitimate changes that are medically necessary, but I'm not sure i want to put on an act like one might for a job interview or meeting a new mate's parents.


I'd think that you'd want to take [other patients'] needs into consideration, particularly since you put a premium on being respected, you know?.  Going barefoot might be interpreted as being "selfish" rather than being "authentic".  Why take the risk?

People THINK bare feet are unsanitary, but it's a popular misconception. My bare feet are no more of a risk to other patients than shoes. Think about it for a moment: my feet touch the same surfaces, and therefore carry only the same potential germs and contaminants as do shoes. If anything, my feet are cleaner because they are washed far more frequently than most folks wash their shoes (which is rarely-to-never). Bare skin exhibits no special property that projects germs into the air. And feet that are always bare don't sweat nor stink, because they are not sealed up in shoes and socks retaining moisture and growing bacteria and fungi.

Quote from: MooseMom
A friend who has committed to looking after you post-op should be good enough.  They just want to know that you can get to your post-op appointments.  I'm assuming this friend is willing to drive you to your tx clinic each week for the first month or so?
Yes. And shop and cook as well, if necessary.

Quote from: MooseMom
My tx clinic is two hours away, and I've had many an early AM appointment.  The good thing is that we made great time because there was hardly any traffic!  Maybe this will be the case for you, too.
Yeah, that's the silver lining. And almost door-to-door freeway, so it'll be a pretty easy drive too.


Before debating it too much call the transplant people and be upfront about your religious needs and ask what kind of accommodation they can assist with and what accommodation they need from you.   

I don't think you need to hide it but rather work with them.

It sounds like you have had other medical issues. During that time were the medical teams able to accommodate you?  Nevermind you answered this already.  So that's good. Still I recommend talking about it in advance so they have some time to talk about you and get over the initial shock and so they know you are trying to help.   

Yep, no problems so far. with any medical staff. Good idea to reach out to them in advance, get in front of the situation to avoid any unexpected surprise. Of course things are moving quite quickly now. I dunno if they even have sat/sun hours for other than emergencies, so I really only have two days (mon and tue) before my first appointment.


I'm concerned about the no shoes thing, as well as your profile tag line of "tree hugging dirt worshipper".  Honestly, the dirt is most likely going to be an issue with your transplant team.  I would be extremely up front with them about your lifestyle.  I am saying this from the perspective that I was told I couldn't even mow my own lawn or pull weeds without a mask and gloves for at least a few months after transplant.  Your immune system will be forever changed and you will have to be on immunosuppressive medications for the rest of your life.  So there is the very real possibility that you could fall to an infection that you would have never affected you before.  The last thing I think you would want is to hide something about yourself in order to get a kidney, only to revert back to that behavior and lose the kidney.

Don't read too much into that tagline. It's a rather tongue-in-cheek reference to my Earth-centered belief system. The planet we inhabit is sacred space. I tread upon it in bare feet out of respect and to be more closely connected to it. While I enjoy communing with nature, that doesn't mean I roll around in the dirt nor am I otherwise "dirty". I "worship" (celebrate) "dirt" as in the Earth. I still bathe, wear clean clothes, and my hygiene practices are as sanitary as most anyone else's, and possibly better than many.

I'm already expecting to have to be even more vigilant about such things, especially with regard to food safety and avoiding possible sources of infection, especially immediately following the transplant. My thinking is it is better they know about the bare feet so that any legitimate medical concerns or risks can be rationally discussed and addressed.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Tora66 on October 15, 2017, 08:57:45 PM
Not sure I believe this
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Tora66 on October 15, 2017, 09:08:08 PM
I'm not buying this. Who in their right mind would ever walk into a medical facility without shoes on unless it was an emergency situation. This guy wouldn't pass the psychological evaluation.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: iolaire on October 16, 2017, 06:02:07 AM
I'm not buying this. Who in their right mind would ever walk into a medical facility without shoes on unless it was an emergency situation. This guy wouldn't pass the psychological evaluation.

Its a growing trend but like most trends that means people have been do it for many years before, and decades, centuries...

Here are some articles:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/trend-going-barefoot/story?id=12992806
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/14/i-dont-wear-shoes-experience

Not to speak for MrNaturalAZ but the correlation I'd make is do you walk into medical facilities with your hands exposed, or your face exposed?  Both are much less protected than feet with good strong calluses. 

Various folks in the running world promote (with studies) that its best to run bare feet and that running shoes do much more damage to your feet.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 16, 2017, 02:18:01 PM
Thanks, Iolaire. I was debating if and how to respond to that. While I'm not surprised that some people may be unaware of the barefooting "subculture", it saddens me to think that some people are so closed minded to assume that it either can't exist or would indicate mental illness.

Those were a nice couple articles you linked. If anyone is interested, they might also want to check out http://barefooters.org - it is ia resource for barefooters and those interested in it. There are sections on legal and medical concerns as well as links to many more third-party articles.

In other news, I've received my itinerary for my evaluation. I'll have quite a full day Wednesday - literally dawn to dusk. The other days won't be quite so heavily loaded. Well, unless they start adding more tests and consultations as they go along, based on the results of the earliest ones. So far I have five days over two weeks, plus another couple appointments a couple weeks later. And one more (dermatology consult?) in late December.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Simon Dog on October 16, 2017, 03:21:36 PM
My evaluation was a meeting with the NP&*MD; the pharmacist and a social worker.  The rest was a checklist of tests I could get done on my own at a local community hospital.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: LoneHighway on October 16, 2017, 06:20:04 PM
You either do it their way or you will not be listed. It may not be fair but that's how it is.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MooseMom on October 17, 2017, 09:56:25 AM
Many of the tests, including the dermatology consult, is to determine if you have any active cancers that could/would spread once you are transplanted and are on immunosuppressants.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: robertscz on October 17, 2017, 10:01:37 AM
I think your absolutely crazy if you decide to show up to the evaluation with no shoes and a kilt... Fair or not, they take everything into consideration and if you can't change your lifestyle to that of more "normal" culture there is a high chance you will not be listed.. They may not say it's because of your feet, but they will come up w a reason such as not enough support at home after surgery... You are putting your chances of receiving a kidney and getting back to a somewhat normal lifestyle at risk  in order to prove a point in a sense.... Do not do it
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 17, 2017, 12:18:41 PM
I think your absolutely crazy if you decide to show up to the evaluation with no shoes and a kilt...

I have to ask - would that be your advice to anyone who wears ethnic/cultural/religious garb that varies from standard "western" dress norms? Are you recommending "business casual"? or perhaps "business smart" or even "black tie"?

I'd like to think that if I go in there, properly prepared for my appointments, obviously articulate and intelligent, they'll realize that I am a responsible adult. They are educated, intelligent medical professionals that presumably base their decisions upon facts rather than personal prejudices. We're talking about a world-class hospital, not some backwoods clinic.

At this point I'm wondering if I should never have mentioned it here in this forum.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MooseMom on October 17, 2017, 01:36:42 PM
I guess it depends upon your luck of the draw.  If you get a pre-tx team that has very liberal views, you may not have a problem.  Who knows?  Go ahead and attend your appointment as naturally and authentically as you'd like!  You might get lucky!

BTW, my tx neph is a Sudanese woman who wears a hijab.  She got her medical degree from Khartoum.  She's brilliant.

I'm glad you mentioned it here in this forum.  It's a very unusual question.  I confess that I've never heard of a religion that requires one to remain barefooted.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 17, 2017, 02:19:56 PM
For what it's worth, I just heard from another barefooter (not on this forum) whose spouse had a kidney transplant. Both patient and spouse attended all appointments and meetings in bare feet, and aside from the occasional overzealous security guard at the entrance, they had no problems. No complaints from any of the medical staff, not even any suggestion that it was an infection risk or that the patient should start wearing shoes post-TX.

This is reassuring news for me, and possibly something to make the nay-sayers think again about their own assumptions.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MooseMom on October 17, 2017, 02:30:40 PM
Which was their transplant clinic?  I'm just curious.

My concern still remains about which other immunosuppressed patients you might happen to encounter on your tx evaluation.  They may not be as open minded and/or educated as you are.  Most clinics have a stonking great jug of hand sanitizer lying about, so would you perhaps consider making a bit of a show of putting sanitizer on your bare feet once you've arrived at your appointment?  It might be a thoughtful thing to do and shouldn't impinge upon your beliefs.  Or would it?  ???
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 17, 2017, 02:49:42 PM
Go ahead and attend your appointment as naturally and authentically as you'd like!  You might get lucky!

Not too natural, tho, or I might get arrested  ;) 

Quote from: MooseMom
BTW, my tx neph is a Sudanese woman who wears a hijab.  She got her medical degree from Khartoum.  She's brilliant.

I've always found it interesting how many medical professionals in this country come from other cultures. Seems a higher percentage than the population at large.

Quote from: MooseMom
I'm glad you mentioned it here in this forum.  It's a very unusual question.  I confess that I've never heard of a religion that requires one to remain barefooted.

There's a handful, that I can think of, but you're right, it's rather uncommon. In all cases that I can think of, it is done as a show of humility, reverence of the planet, or rejection of materialism - never a symbol of selfishness or pretension.

Also, there is a growing number of people, as Iolaire mentioned already, who are embracing full-time barefooting as simply a healthy lifestyle choice, regardless of their religious or spiritual beliefs.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: iolaire on October 17, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
At this point I'm wondering if I should never have mentioned it here in this forum.

People in the medical field should be trained to be more accepting of people than random commenters on the internet.  Don't take it personal the written word can come out harsher then intended sometimes.   

And as both MosseMom and you acknowledge more than likely a good percentage of the medical team will be used to different cultures...  As I wrote a previous post about trends and how they likely have been practiced for many years I was thinking there had to be some religious folks in say India whose elders have lived barefoot for the last few centuries or more.  So maybe you get an Indian surgeon who is familiar with monks walking around the countryside barefoot in a much less hygienic environment than Arizona...
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 17, 2017, 03:00:58 PM
Which was their transplant clinic?  I'm just curious.

KU Medical Center in Kansas City

Quote from: MooseMom
My concern still remains about which other immunosuppressed patients you might happen to encounter on your tx evaluation.  They may not be as open minded and/or educated as you are.  Most clinics have a stonking great jug of hand sanitizer lying about, so would you perhaps consider making a bit of a show of putting sanitizer on your bare feet once you've arrived at your appointment?  It might be a thoughtful thing to do and shouldn't impinge upon your beliefs.  Or would it?  ???

Interesting thought. It would be entirely for show, of course. One sanitizes one's hands because they touch various things and other people, spreading germs around. Feet, whether bare or covered, only touch the floor. And perhaps the exam table, scanner bed, etc., which are either covered with linen or paper, else disinfected between patients. As long as my feet stay on the floor, they don't need sanitizer any more than your shoes do. But thanks for the idea - I'll keep that in mind and offer if someone seems uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 17, 2017, 03:11:29 PM
So maybe you get an Indian surgeon who is familiar with monks walking around the countryside barefoot in a much less hygienic environment than Arizona...

I know of at least one doctor - yes, a "real" modern medical doctor - who practices in bare feet. Not in this country (nor Asia, for that matter), but for reasons of privacy I'd rather not be more specific.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MooseMom on October 18, 2017, 07:43:40 AM
I wince whenever anyone wears shoes into my home.  I have several pairs of slippers that I keep my doors that connect my house to the outside world, so I do understand your ideas about shoes.  They can get disgusting.

What are your feelings, though, about walking barefooted inside of a building where OTHER people have been wearing their shoes?  I can understand being barefooted in a "natural" environment, but I'd be wary of being barefooted in an airport or an underground train station or just about any public building.  They are just so DIRTY?  Are you really happy being barefooted within a medical facility?  I'd be worried for my health.  How do you reconcile the filth of public buildings with your practice of going barefooted?  (This is not a "hostile" question.  I'm really curious!  Thank you.)
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Tora66 on October 19, 2017, 07:49:00 PM
I just hope you make the decision to wear shoes. If not you can kiss that chance of getting on the list goodbye. Go shoeless on your own time.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Cupcake on October 20, 2017, 09:15:15 AM
Transplant centers want to select patients that will succeed and keep their statistics in good shape. Hopefully they will take the time and effort during the evaluation to look beyond the barefootedness and screen for any other factors that may make Mr Natural a less than ideal candidate (I have my suspicions!) I agree with other posters that if you seriously want a kidney, suck it up and play the game.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 22, 2017, 01:51:36 PM
What are your feelings, though, about walking barefooted inside of a building where OTHER people have been wearing their shoes?  I can understand being barefooted in a "natural" environment, but I'd be wary of being barefooted in an airport or an underground train station or just about any public building.  They are just so DIRTY?  Are you really happy being barefooted within a medical facility?  I'd be worried for my health.  How do you reconcile the filth of public buildings with your practice of going barefooted?

Actually, I don't really think about the surface dirt and germs much. I'm very aware of where I am stepping, but that's mostly watching for puncture/cut injury hazards (in addition to the usual tripping hazards anyone might watch for). Dry particulate matter tends not to stick to my feet, and as for germs, well, my skin does its job. Seriously - unbroken human skin offers an excellent barrier to germs and other pathogens. We wash and sanitize our hands not because germs will be absorbed through the skin, but rather to prevent transfer of the germs to food, or, when touched, our eyes, mouth, or other mucous membranes and/or openings (wounds, dialysis access, whatever) where the pathogens can enter our bodies. Since I don't handle food with my feet, and they pretty much stay on the ground, and generally don't touch my face or other vulnerable areas, it honestly does not worry me at all.

Sure, there can be a psychological "ick" factor, but I don't really have that for simple dirt and germs. Stepping in dog-poo is unpleasant. The logical part of me, however, realizes that in reality it is harmless - I wipe it off as best I can and wash as soon as water it available. My biggest worry in that instance is tracking/transferring.  Probably the worst thing I've had to step in/on indoors is the occasional wet/messy floor in a public restroom. When that happens, I wait or go elsewhere if possible. I once had to use an extremely filthy porta-potty and I had no choice and couldn't wait. It was disgusting, but I did what I had to, then found a nearby water spigot and washed off and quickly forgot about it.

I guess bottom line is in knowing what's really harmful and what's simply "gross" but otherwise harmless. And in trusting my body's largest organ (my skin) to do its job and keep the nasties out.

Quote from: MooseMom
(This is not a "hostile" question.  I'm really curious!  Thank you.)

I don't mind a all answering questions of genuine curiosity. I only become defensive when someone leads with "you must be crazy"
Title: It's not gonna happen this time...
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on October 22, 2017, 02:40:07 PM
Well, it seems I got my hopes up for no reason. I didn't make it past my first appointment, with the Transplant Nephrologist. While I'm sure some people will think what they'll think, I honestly believe the rejection was medically legitimate, and has nothing to do with my lack of footwear.

I have a history of squamous cell carcinoma. I have a spot on my scalp that was previously cancerous, and does not want to fully heal. It has been that way for several years - not getting worse, not apparently cancerous, but won't fully heal either. Biopsy is inconclusive - reveals "atypical" cells, but not necessarily cancerous. In other words, nobody is willing to say with enough confidence that I am indeed cancer free.

The TX neph's concern is that once I am immunosuppressed, the cancer will reappear and rapidly grow. He compared the action of anti-rejection meds on cancer cells to pouring gasoline on a fire. He told my that while the transplant would likely be successful, there would be a high probability of my dying from the rapidly spreading carcinoma. He told me that while it is certainly my right to seek another opinion and another transplant program might accept me (but only if/when the ulcer on my scalp would heal - otherwise I'd certainly not pass the dermatologists exam) but he can't recommend it.

He said there was no point in going through the rest of the testing, at least not for now, so that's that for the time being, I guess.

In retrospect, I have to wonder - why would my nephrologist have even referred me for a TX eval? He was aware of my history and of the non-healing wound on my head. I asked the TX neph if perhaps my neph was just being overly optimistic and his answer was "they (my regular nephs) are 'dialysis doctors'; I'm a transplant doctor." He said that the regular nephrologists simply aren't aware of all the various risks and complications of a transplant.

So I guess for now - maybe forever - I can forget about transplant and prepare myself mentally for dialysis. One less decision to make, one less thing to worry about, I suppose. I'm a bit bummed, but life goes on.
Title: Re: It's not gonna happen this time...
Post by: kristina on October 22, 2017, 04:13:00 PM


In retrospect, I have to wonder - why would my nephrologist have even referred me for a TX eval? He was aware of my history and of the non-healing wound on my head. I asked the TX neph if perhaps my neph was just being overly optimistic and his answer was "they (my regular nephs) are 'dialysis doctors'; I'm a transplant doctor." He said that the regular nephrologists simply aren't aware of all the various risks and complications of a transplant.

So I guess for now - maybe forever - I can forget about transplant and prepare myself mentally for dialysis. One less decision to make, one less thing to worry about, I suppose. I'm a bit bummed, but life goes on.

Please don't feel disheartened about it, your nephrologist may have been a bit enthusiastic, but I am sure he meant well. You know, my own nephrologist was the same and sent me to be evaluated much too early after "my" own cancer episode. And my nephrologist made absolutely sure that I was on the waiting list the minute after my 5-cancer-free-years were completed. Perhaps your nephrologist thinks similarly...
Good luck wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: kickingandscreaming on October 22, 2017, 04:15:22 PM
Sorry for your disappointmet.  I also doubt that I'm a candidate for TX.  Too many  heart issues and I'm an old fart (76 soon). I'm just hoping that PD keeps working for me and that the bio-artificial kidney comes in my lifetime.  Sounds like that would work for you, too.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: iolaire on October 22, 2017, 06:21:28 PM
Sorry to hear you were blocked.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Simon Dog on October 22, 2017, 09:52:16 PM
If the artificial kidneys is out in 3 years, it will be at least another 3 before it is generally available.  Everyone will want one, but it will only make sense to make them at a pace demand can sustain for the long term.
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: MrNaturalAZ on November 01, 2017, 09:47:29 PM
Artificial kidney? I'm thinking that sooner or later they'll be able to grow a real (well, maybe bio-synthetic?) kidney from the patient's own stem cells. I don't know too much about such things, but I'd think it would be 100% compatible that way, and require no anti-rejection meds, removing any concerns related to immunosuppression. Then anyone could get a "transplant" of their own actual organ with their own exact DNA. SOund plausible? Maybe in 10 years or so?
Title: Re: Impending TX evaluation - various questions
Post by: Paul on November 25, 2017, 11:59:15 AM
It is probably because I live in the next country down from Scotland, but here a kilt would be no problem.

However no shoes? As there are more people wanting a kidney than there are spare kidneys, here they would reject you because of the risk to the kidney, better to give it to someone who will look after it properly. Remember, an infection from something as simple as a foot ulcer can kill the transplanted kidney. And any bacteria you pick up off the ground could kill the new kidney.

However bearing in mind the medical history you posted, I too doubt it was the shoes that caused the problem.