I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry => Topic started by: Rerun on July 30, 2015, 10:03:49 AM
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Most people think "Planned Parenthood" is a non-profit place women can go to "Plan" their families. Go there and they can tell you when to have and how many children you can have based on what you make etc... Women's Health Care... But, it is not. It is a place to go get rid of your babies in the back room. Ok, it is a dirty job and someone has to do it? But, now we find out they are harvesting organs and selling them. Hmmm People like us who need an organ can't buy an organ. Hell, we can't even pay for our donor to fly out to surgery or their time off $$$.
I don't want my tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood anymore. What say you??
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Hell, we can't even pay for our donor to fly out to surgery or their time off $$$.
I thought expense reimbursement was allowed in the US.
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Hell, we can't even pay for our donor to fly out to surgery or their time off $$$.
I thought expense reimbursement was allowed in the US.
It didn't use to be allowed. I hope that "at least" has changed. My point is, Should tax payers fund Planned Parenthood for sneaking around and selling these fetal organs and parts. Or will this be the break-thru we have been waiting for. Once someone has donated the loved one for organ donation can the hospital sell it to the top bidder? Congress has either got to make it or break it very soon.
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Not an argument for abortion, but the reality is that the amount the gov spends funding abortions pales in comparison to the amount that would be spent on public benefits programs for the fetuses should they be carried to term, since abortions are unevenly distributed across the socio-economic spectrm. Read the section in Freakenomics that discusses how Roe v. Wade is the reason an anticipated spike in youth crime never materialized.
Hospitals cannot sell your organs, but can profit off your tissues. There was a suit years ago where someone's tissue (liver, I think) was used to create a new and pricey medical therapy, and he wanted his cut of the action. Consent forms have since been modified to protect hospitals from this sort of claim.
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But, now we find out they are harvesting organs and selling them.
This is factually untrue.
I don't want my tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood anymore. What say you??
I'm happy to have my tax dollars go to Planned Parenthood so that poor women (and men) can have access to contraception (and other healthcare services), which is the best way to avoid unplanned pregnancies, which is the best way to avoid abortions in the first place.
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This is factually untrue.
Do you have access to the investigation files, sworn depositions, etc. or are you qualified to make that judgement by getting information off the internet and mass media?
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President Obama said it is untrue today.... so I guess it is untrue.
:Kit n Stik;
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There are no files or depositions that support the claim that organs were sold. Show me some legal or financial evidence that this is true. Thank you.
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Usually video is enough evidence. But, I bet it is coming which is legal. Hey, I'm good with it. If they can sell organs then we can buy them.
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Something needs to happen here. Either Planned Parenthood gets axed and a few people put in prison or the group claiming the disparaging acts needs to be put in prison for libel.
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There are no files or depositions that support the claim that organs were sold. Show me some legal or financial evidence that this is true. Thank you.
I agree that the allegations are unproven.
However, you said the allegations are "factually untrue". Can you provide proof of this?
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Simon Dog, perhaps this will help:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/planned-parenthood-wrongdoing-indiana
Not every Planned Parenthood clinics that perform abortions participate in tissue donation, by the way, as noted here:
http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/07/planned_parenthood_dhh_investi.html
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So... are those actors in the videos?? Someone need to answer. Babies are killed and tissue and organs sold. That is not a war on women! Women should be outraged!
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In some areas the only Heath care available to poor women is provided by planned parenthood. State and federal money is used in many cases to provide this care. The federal and state money can't be used to provide abortion services its funded separately, and privately. Most of the screening for cancers that are available to the working poor are provided by this group.
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An abortion is a dead human being. They dont deserve to be cut up and used for other things. Yes, I did see the lady on a FB video who is in charge of this and no, I didnt like anything she had to so nonchalantly say and no, I cant remember it word for word. All I know is that this whole mess needs to be cleaned up.
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I did not realize just how restrictive funding is on abortion. So if you are worried that your federal tax dollars are going toward paying for abortion, here is some information that may make you feel a lot better.
https://www.aclu.org/public-funding-abortion
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Education is the key.
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It's infanticide and illegal sale of body parts.
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In some areas the only Heath care available to poor women is provided by planned parenthood. State and federal money is used in many cases to provide this care. The federal and state money can't be used to provide abortion services its funded separately, and privately. Most of the screening for cancers that are available to the working poor are provided by this group.
Planned Parenthood doesn't even do mammograms! So that is a bunch of hooey.
The animal activists have put a stop to using animals and animal parts for medical research so we have started using throw away babies. Sick!
There are lots of clinics that do free mammograms and STD screenings other than planned parenthood.
This is not about getting rid or stopping abortion. It is about profiting from the baby parts. We of all people should understand that is illegal.
If they were to get pregnant Lions and abort the cub and use it for Medical Research the country would be OUTRAGED!
What is WRONG with people!
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Planned Parenthoohd provides over nine million treatments a year from diagnosing STDs and treating them to Pap smears. They perform 327,000 Abortions
For each abortion they provide 30 tests and treatments to women and men. The Abortions are not paid with Federal funds but are paid for privately. If these services are unfunded the people who rely on them will have no alternative. Most of the cost of treating the resulting worse conditions will be paid for for the most part by state Medicaid or people with money but no insurance. I understand you don't like abortions but they are a legal service provided with out tax dollars. Taking away needed medical care from the poor is needless and cruel.
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And just who are these organizations that are going to provide these services. The medical care for the poor in this country is already not adequate to meet the needs of the poor, and you are removing the one group that provides a vast majority of these services.
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"No medical care will be taken away from the poor, " my patootie. Do you really believe that? And I have the same questions as Michael Murphy, ie, just who would the Senate describe as an "eligible entity"? States like Texas and Mississippi have already faffed about with such definitions regarding doctors' admitting rights with the result being that people have to travel hundreds of miles to reach a clinic.
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Forgot to add that S.1881 was defeated over the very queries raised by Michael Murphy.
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^
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Michael: Abortions are legal. Now what do you think should be done with the fetus?
I want to hear it in your words because I can't even put it into words......
Let alone that Planed Parenthood is profiting from them.....
Let's go ... write it!
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It should be disposed of as medical waste. Not pretty but no solution to this problem is. The solution to abortion is a vexing political problem, abortion legal or not has been around for all of history. Even being illegal when I was growing up it was common for the bad girl to go to a unlicensed provider and risk her life to get the procedure done. Best solution don't get pregnant if you don't want the child. However the reality is that people get pregnant when they are unable to care for the child. This is a no win argument I won't argue abortion is great, it obviously not A optimal solution. But neither is the death of a 16 year old who panics and goes to some quack to have it done and dies as a result. Planned Parenthood provides 300,000 abortions a year and 100 times that in other services. This is a attempt by abortion opponents to close a safe and legal method of poor women to get a abortion.
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I agree with Michael Murphy.
While abortion is not a pretty picture, without the contraception and information provided by Planned Parenthood, there would be far MORE abortions. Those who are strongly against abortion should be strongly FOR contraceptive services.
Usually the choice to have an abortion is not one that is desired. In far too many cases other means of contraception have failed and abortion is the last unfortunate option.
Aleta
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Forgot to add that S.1881 was defeated over the very queries raised by Michael Murphy.
As Senate Majority leader McConnell stated during the bill's debate, "Instead of subsidizing a political group [Planned Parenthood] this bill would protect federal funding for health services for women." The funds would have gone to community health centers, with priority given to those in rural, under served areas, and hospitals that provide more comprehensive healthcare services than PP.
Why does McConnell call Planned Parenthood a "political group"? That's a misnomer. I don't think of PP in those terms. But if McConnell thinks of that organization in those terms because it provides abortions, then what about hospitals and other medical providers who perform this same procedure AND have massive lobbying groups in DC? Are THOSE "political groups", too? Because, you see, rich people get abortion and contraceptive services from somewhere! But that's OK because they go to for-profit corporations for those things, and that's acceptable, I guess.
Don't forget that in many of these rural and underserved areas that are of such concern to Mr. McConnell, Planned Parenthood IS the "community health center"? So what does he propose? Build new ones? Is he going to find funding for that?
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Michael: Abortions are legal. Now what do you think should be done with the fetus?
I want to hear it in your words because I can't even put it into words......
Let alone that Planed Parenthood is profiting from them.....
Let's go ... write it!
I'll write it, too.
Abortion is a tragedy. In all too many cases, it is a necessary evil. I do not dispute the notion that there are women (and men) who use abortion as birth control and who see it as an inconvenience, but that should NOT mean that abortion should be denied to women who need it.
Donated fetal tissue should be for research into how to heal people like you and me and the millions of others who suffer from chronic disease and organ failure. Perhaps the DONATED fetal tissue could hold the key to how to keep all of us off dialysis.
There is still NO evidence that PP is profiting from the "sale" of donated tissue. States with Republican governors are investigated PP clinics that operate in their states, and as of yet, there is no evidence supporting this claim. Most states with PP don't even have a tissue donation system. After all investigations have been completed and PP is cleared, The Center for Medical Progress should be prosecuted.
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States with Republican governors
This sort of thing is why the Republicans are losing ground. Lots of people, myself included, are not interested in having the govt tell people how to run their lives; impose their theocratic views on others (I remember Bush Sr. saying he wasn't sure if atheists were citizens); or worry about who is poking who (and not in the cannulation sense of the word).
Unfortunately, the Democrats are into income redistribution / welfare expansion / illegal immigration support /etc. so I am really left with no good choices to vote for (except 3rd parties with no chance of winning a general election)
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This was a good article from someone with experience working with fetal tissue
http://www.vox.com/2015/8/7/9107913/fetal-tissue-planned-parenthood
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I think we are all on the same page except.... if they find PP gets paid for parts. That is when they need to go to jail and get unfunded.
Same for the people who are accusing the origination if found to be lying.
I would call any organization that donates to a political party "Political".
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00314617&cycle=2014
Makes you wonder where they get their extra money....
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Planned Parenthood!
Planned Parenthood is second only to Benghazi in the fictional scandal category. Worse, truth is a casualty.
It is not a harvesting of organs, it is tissue that has Stem Cells. Aside from the obvious that abortions are legal, stem cells are vital to the care of many people. The stuff I get once a week may be a stem cell potion, I am not quite sure about that.
A glance at the big picture should tell us all that anti-abortion is the issue and that has a religious basis and I am most vigorously opposed to any religious principle becoming the law of the land. Yet, there are mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers out there (Tea Part/conservatives) who want to regulate women's health
Carly Fiorina ran for the senate in California and got her ass whipped. She was CEO of HP and laid off 20,000 employees and drove HP's stock value to 50% of its top value and is now fabricating Planned Parenthood stories for the purpose of pandering to a segment of voters she thinks is necessary for her chances to be President. Can yo imagine Fiorina's finger over the nuclear button?
Eight state attorney generals have investigated Planned Parenthood and found no wrong or illegal practices. Idea: LEAVE WOMEN'S HEALTH ALONE.
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Oh my God so no one really got killed in Benghazi? That is so good to here. Thank you!
Have you watched the tapes? Are they actors saying lets position the baby so we can get the whole thing for better parts?
We need to defund PP and put that money, that same money into community health centers.
Someone needs to go to jail over this. The liar whomever needs to go to prison.
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The problem with the tapes is that the entire tape has not been released, if the tapes are to be taken seriously release the unedited version. A Good editor can have people saying something they never said by changing the context or removing parts of the answers. Why have the entire tapes not been released if the contents are so damning.
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Rerun, here is video of Cecille Richard's testimony in front of the House Committee headed by Jason Chaffetz, so you can have a look and decide for yourself. Parts of the hearing have already been aired on major news outlets, but if you want to watch the entire thing, here's your chance should you have several hours to spare.
There has not been a single shred of evidence to support the accusation that PP sold body parts, despite hours of investigations that cost a lot of money in those states where the governor demanded one. So yes, someone should go to jail, and I hope that PP files suit against the guy who started this whole despicable lie.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/us/abortion-planned-parenthood-videos.html?_r=0
Surely we'd have heard screams of delight from Congresspeople on the right side of the aisle if such evidence had been unearthed and had been declared credible.
I am not sure how many times it has to be repeated that the US taxpayers do not fund abortions. The US government does not pay for abortions. Defunding PP will not stop women from getting abortions.
If you want to stop unwanted pregnancy, make it mandatory that men wear condoms. Too many men opt out of taking responsibility for their own health and for birth control. Some one should ask Jason Chaffetz if he has ever worn a condom.
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I read your link but didn't see any video of the testimony. They say PP doesn't even provide mammograms. We should defund PP and put the exact money into other community health organizations that do provide ALL women's health issues. I guess something will happen at the end of all this.
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Rerun:
Benghazi aka Ben Gazzi: More Americans died in George W. Bush's revenge on Iraq for 9/11 than died on 9/11 and I see no mourning for those lost lives. Nor do I see any anger for the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians that died in that ill-advised attack on a sovereign nation. As for Bengahzi, there was a highly classified CIA operation in an adjacent building within the compound. CIA official were among the dead. The secrecy around that operation contributes to the notion "that someone is hiding something" making a non-scandal possible.
As for Planned Parenthood, the courts yesterday directed the maker of the edited film to release all of the film used prior to the editing. Put on your thinking cap and reason your way through this: why would it take a court action to make a film editor release his raw material? If he had nothing to hide, why not just give everyone a chance to see what he had?
PP attacks come down to a single principle, anti-abortion. The roots of anti-abortion are in religious ideology and this government should not and does not mix religion and government policy, thus abortion is legal in this nation as held by the US Supreme Court.
Further, using emotional arguments to decide anything in law is a well-know folly. Let women decide how to run their lives and remember that many conceptions are neither wanted or planned or in the best interests of anyone involved.
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So why can't a woman kill her child or clump of cells at birth? It is her body.... Where do morals and ethics come from if not God.
Never mind you will never get it.
You think this video guy is trying to hide something but The government is not trying to hid anything about Benghazi. Try and work yourself through that thought process.
We will see how this all works out. Maybe all those people on the videos were just actors. Plus they gave PP like 3 months to shred all the paper work or evidence. We will see.
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I don't usually comment on these threads, but couldn't help myself. I am pro-choice. Planned parenthood is a vitally important resource for lower income women without access to good health care. That being said, I personally could not have an abortion. But that is my choice. I think the real problem with our politicians and our country right now is that we are overly concerned about things that should rank much, much lower on the scale of things that are important. If someone chooses to have an abortion, that is their choice to make. It is legal. I don't care if we allow same sex couples to marry. I care about gun violence and the heroin epidemic. I care about schools that can't properly educate our children. I care about our veterans, many of whom are suffering. I care about kids who don't have food to eat in a country that wastes more food than any other. I care about what crazy companies are poisoning our food with. I care about our economy and promoting small businesses. I care about finding an answer to our immigration problems. I care about our foreign policies. Why do we let these less important issues distract us from the things we should be paying attention to when voting for our elected officials? Let God sort out abortions and gay marriage and keep it out of our government. Judge not lest.......yadayadayada. I pray that these few polarizing issues don't distract people from the more important ones, but have little hope of that happening. It is very frustrating to keep talking about these same issues that aren't even in the top 20 of things we should be worried about. Apologies if I offended anyone. Just my opinion.
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Abortion is legal. Selling their little body parts is not. Now maybe the Supreme Court of the Land will make it so. That will be a bonus for us.
Lefts don't want God in this country anymore. Remember that?
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Abortion is legal. Selling their little body parts is not. Now maybe the Supreme Court of the Land will make it so. That will be a bonus for us.
Lefts don't want God in this country anymore. Remember that?
You are right, Rerun; selling body parts is illegal in this country, so thank goodness that the endless investigations here in this country have found that the allegations this is happening have proven to be untrue.
Who are "lefts"? Whoever they are, that's a pretty sweeping and hyperbolic statement.
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I don't usually comment on these threads, but couldn't help myself. I am pro-choice. Planned parenthood is a vitally important resource for lower income women without access to good health care. That being said, I personally could not have an abortion. But that is my choice. I think the real problem with our politicians and our country right now is that we are overly concerned about things that should rank much, much lower on the scale of things that are important. If someone chooses to have an abortion, that is their choice to make. It is legal. I don't care if we allow same sex couples to marry. I care about gun violence and the heroin epidemic. I care about schools that can't properly educate our children. I care about our veterans, many of whom are suffering. I care about kids who don't have food to eat in a country that wastes more food than any other. I care about what crazy companies are poisoning our food with. I care about our economy and promoting small businesses. I care about finding an answer to our immigration problems. I care about our foreign policies. Why do we let these less important issues distract us from the things we should be paying attention to when voting for our elected officials? Let God sort out abortions and gay marriage and keep it out of our government. Judge not lest.......yadayadayada. I pray that these few polarizing issues don't distract people from the more important ones, but have little hope of that happening. It is very frustrating to keep talking about these same issues that aren't even in the top 20 of things we should be worried about. Apologies if I offended anyone. Just my opinion.
It has long been a political tactic (and certainly not only in this country) to divert the voters' attention away from difficult issues (gun control, hunger, crumbling infrastructure, income inequality, reasonable and effective governance) by spending endless time and money in bread and circuses. Step right up, Kevin McCarthy! He's said it all.
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It seems Congress has shelved the topic for now. But, I want to see someone in jail and that will prove this is not happening.
I just can't believe this country has starving children when even the homeless I see downtown are on a cell phone. With all the welfare and soup kitchens and shelters and school breakfasts, lunches and sack dinners and weekend food kits that schools send home every weekend and parks have lunch programs during the summer where are the starving kids in America?
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De Tocqueville stated that a democracy can only survive up until the point where the citizenry can vote itself largess form the public treasury.
We are at the point where the govt will issue you an Obama phone if you cannot afford your own. EBTers are often spotted with their latest model Iphone as well as their govt paid Obama phone.
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De Tocqueville stated that a democracy can only survive up until the point where the citizenry can vote itself largess form the public treasury.
We are at the point where the govt will issue you an Obama phone if you cannot afford your own. EBTers are often spotted with their latest model Iphone as well as their govt paid Obama phone.
And there is FOOD. AND Clothes. The mission here has a department store in the back for people in need. The Orchard Owners pay people to come pick apples and can't get anyone. LAZY I would go pick apples before I'd lay on the street and starve. Or let my dog starve. (I don't have kids)
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http://www.ohiofoodbanks.org/sfspsummit/childhunger.pdf
This link will show you the statistics for Ohio, where I live. Many people don't qualify for assistance because they are above the income limits. I find it very disheartening when people say things like "we have missions and food banks". It isn't as simple as that. I know that I am a liberal, but I am also a Catholic. I believe we need God in our country and schools. We need to fix the problems with welfare abuse. But for every person you see carrying that obamaphone, remember they are likely to have children who didn't ask to be put in that situation. Our country and has been so busy fighting amongst ourselves, the kids are the ones who are forgotten. And just an FYI, Planned Parenthood provides birth control and education to low income women. I know this first hand, as I have been to a PP in my city to get birth control. I am beyond blessed that I was able to provide food and a good education for my kids, but there are many who aren't so lucky. We can blame the parents, Obama, or the liberals for all of these problems, but the bottom line is people who live in poverty and grow up in that system tend to repeat the same pattern as their parents. Educating and helping the children raised in this environment is the only way to end this cycle. But it's an enormous job that is so hard to do. And whether you believe it or not, minorities and low income Americans don't have the same advantages as most of us. their schools aren't as good, their teachers aren't as good and their parents don't know anything other than what they were brought up with. Next time you drive downtown in a big city, see if you can find a grocery store. There are very few. But you will find dozens of fast food places. I did my student teaching in a very low income public junior high. Instead of "home economics", we taught kids how to grocery shop, keep a check book, make home made cleaners, do laundry and bathe properly. There was a special class for those with children - mind you these are 12-14 year olds. We must take care of our underprivileged kids to make a change in America. Sorry for the rant! Just an issue close to my heart.
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With so many being allowed to flood in to our country, I wonder who is going to pay for their dialysis and any other related kidney disease expenses, not to mention their birth control, food and clothing. With so many out of work, it's not like the govt has a stash of money laying around and they cannot just keep printing money.
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I would like to point out that these republican politicians in the house who are voting to defund planned parenthood are the same people who voted to cut social security disability next year. They did this by passing a resolution that when the disability fund runs out of money next year no money can be moved into the disability fund from the regular social security fund. The disability fund will have to cut every disability check by the percentage of the shortfall.
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Actually the federal government may print the money but the treasury turns it over to the federal reserve which strangely enough is mostly privately held. The fed is a mostly independent organization that has board members appointed by the president but also board members appointed by the owners of the fed, So unless the fed agrees the treasury can print as much money as they want but the fed won't put it in circulation, when the government wants more money they sell bonds, this has a different type of impact on the economy than the release of more currency.
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We are buying our own debt because nobody wants to buy our bonds. And the last budget cut occurred in FY 74 or 75. :embarassed:
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No money SHOULD be moved into the disability fund from the regular social security fund. That money in SS is for those that put into it.
PP does not do Mammograms for women. Does that NOT raise a red flag to anyone. Community Health facilities is where we need to put that money that we take away from PP. They help women, children and the occasional male.
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Below is a break down of the planned parent hood services. Mamagrams require equipment that is expensive, difficult to operate and in most states is almost impossible to det licensed outside of a hospital plus insurance requirements agin are difficult out side of a fospital.
Only 3% of Planned Parenthood's services are abortion services. The other 97% includes testing and treatment of sexually transmitted diseases, contraception, cancer screening and prevention, and pregnancy testing and prenatal services.
Answer: Below is a breakdown of all patient care services* provided by Planned Parenthood affiliate health centers in 2010:
38% - Testing of and treatment for Sexually Transmitted Diseases/Infections (STDs/STIs)
In 2010, Planned Parenthood provided a total of 4,179, 053 services which encompassed:
STI tests for women and men -3,552,955
Genital warts (HPV) treatments - 51, 197
HIV tests for women and men - 574,901
33.5% - Contraception (including reversible and permanent)
In 2010, Planned Parenthood provided a total of 3,685,437 services which encompassed:
Reversible contraception for women** - 2,219,726
Emergency contraception kits - 1,461,816
Vasectomy patients - 3, 290
Female sterilization procedures - 605
14.5% - Cancer screening and prevention
In 2010, Planned Parenthood provided a total of 1,596,741 services which encompassed:
Pap tests -769,769
Breast Exams and Breast Care - 747,607
Colposcopy procedures (for diagnosis of abnormal growth cells in the cervix) - 41,549
LOOP/LEEP procedures (treatment for abnormal growths) - 2,432
Cryotherapy procedures (treatment for abnormal growths - 1,254
Planned Parenthood does not offer mammograms at any of their affiliate health centers but will refer clients to other local providers who do.
10.4% - Other women's health services
In 2010, Planned Parenthood provided a total of 1,144,558 services which encompassed:
Pregnancy tests -1,113,460
Prenatal services - 31,098
3% - Abortion services
In 2010, Planned Parenthood conducted a total of 329, 445 abortion procedures.
0.6% - Other health services
In 2010, Planned Parenthood provided a total of 68,132 services which encompassed:
Family practice services for women and men - 35, 062
Adoption referrals to other agencies - 841
Other procedures for women and men (which include WIC services -- a federally funded nutrition program for low-income women, infants, and children up to the age of five -- as well as pediatric care and immunizations) - 32,229
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* As defined by Planned Parenthood, "A service is a discrete clinical interaction, such as the administration of a physical exam or STI test or the provision of a birth control method." In 2010, Planned Parenthood health centers saw approximately three million patients. Collectively, they received nearly 11 million services during nearly five million clinical visits.
** Reversible contraceptive methods chosen by Planned Parenthood clients in 2010:
Oral - 39.5%
Non-prescription barrier - 17.8%
No Method - 11.9%
Progestin-only Injectables - 9.4%
Other/Unknown - 8.4%
Combined Hormone Ring - 5.7%
IUD - 4.1%
Combined Hormone Patch - 2.3%
Contraceptive Implant - 0.7%
Prescription Barrier - 0.1%
Fertility Awareness-based Methods - 0.1%
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Sources:
"Jon Kyl says abortion services are 'well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does.'" Politifact.com. 8 April 2011.
"Mammogram." Planned Parenthood Federation of America. PlannedParenthood.org. Retrieved 16 February 2012.
McCormack, John. "Planned Parenthood President Falsely Claimed Clinics Provide Mammograms." WeeklyStandard.com. 30 March 2011.
Robertson, Lori and Michael Morse. "Planned Parenthood." FactCheck.org. 18 April 2011. "Services." Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
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With so many being allowed to flood in to our country, I wonder who is going to pay for their dialysis and any other related kidney disease expenses, not to mention their birth control, food and clothing. With so many out of work, it's not like the govt has a stash of money laying around and they cannot just keep printing money.
Immigrants and their relatives vote heavily Democratic once they get citizenship (and some would argue sometimes before them). These are not being viewed as drains by the administration, but as future democratic votes.
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With so many being allowed to flood in to our country, I wonder who is going to pay for their dialysis and any other related kidney disease expenses, not to mention their birth control, food and clothing. With so many out of work, it's not like the govt has a stash of money laying around and they cannot just keep printing money.
This is completely off topic but that quote just seems odd to me. Most immigrants I see are working (hard) here in the US. So I looked up a quote:
In 2014, the labor force participation rate of the foreign born was 66.0 percent, compared with 62.3 percent for the native born.
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The participation rate of foreign-born men was 78.7 percent in 2014, higher than the rate of 67.4 percent for native-born men. In contrast, 53.9 percent of foreign-born women were labor force participants, lower than the rate of 57.5 percent for native-born women.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/forbrn.nr0.htm
I would argue that we will do much better as a country than say Japan as our population ages if we have immigrants and their children who are working and helping to fund any underfunded programs such as social security or Medicare.
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Meanwhile...we have "new arrivals" every day coming into our country that are not employed, do not have US citizenship yet or otherwise contributing to social security who may want and need services such as dialysis or even services from groups such as planned parenthood. In my opinion, that is a terrific drain on our already strained resources.
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The strange reality is over the last 10 years illegal imigrants paid over 110 billion dollars into social security and Medicare funds even though they were not eligible for benefits. The government tracks the these and publishes these number annually.
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Meanwhile...we have "new arrivals" every day coming into our country that are not employed, do not have US citizenship yet or otherwise contributing to social security who may want and need services such as dialysis or even services from groups such as planned parenthood. In my opinion, that is a terrific drain on our already strained resources.
Then we should allow them to work and to contribute to SS.
Our resources are not strained. We have plenty of money. It's just that those in power (and who have money) find ways to evade taxation. Instead they spend millions and millions on election campaigns. These are the people who will never need "benefits" like PP or Medicare to pay for dialysis.
If we can pay athletes and movie stars millions to entertain us, then that proves that the money is there; it's our collective values that should be queried.
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Our resources should not pay to kill babies so that their bodies parts can be sold. That's ghoulish and Josef Mengele-like. Whether fully born, partially born or unborn, I would hope all lives matter -to everyone.
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Agreed Prime timer. A human life is the most precious thing we have. I think abortion is an abomination, no matter who is having it and what is being done with the bodies. It's murder and most often, not a gentle one. Newborns can feel pain as much as we can. As far as immigrants are concerned and I am talking illegals here, try working in a HUD complex my friends for a few years and you will learn way more about them and what our government gives them, which is enough to make you want to :puke;
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One more time no Government money is used to pay for abortions, CMS audits medicaid providers to insure that. The simple fact is that almost every one that is trying to close Planned Parenthood is against abortion and is trying to close Planed Parenthood by any means. I should point out when I was 16 a girl I had played with my entire life from the age of 5 died her parents had a back alley abortion performed on her and it killed her. The fact that a 16 year has to pay with her life for a single mistake is a major problem for me. One day happy and alive the next day dead, because the medical procedure she needed was unavailable. Because of this I am a strong supporter of choice. This planned parenthood thread is a veiled attempt to use a questionable video to stop a legal procedure. If the anti abortion argument is so strong convince 51 percent of the American people to agree with it.
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Meanwhile...we have "new arrivals" every day coming into our country that are not employed, do not have US citizenship yet or otherwise contributing to social security who may want and need services such as dialysis or even services from groups such as planned parenthood. In my opinion, that is a terrific drain on our already strained resources.
Then we should allow them to work and to contribute to SS.
Our resources are not strained. We have plenty of money. It's just that those in power (and who have money) find ways to evade taxation. Instead they spend millions and millions on election campaigns. These are the people who will never need "benefits" like PP or Medicare to pay for dialysis.
If we can pay athletes and movie stars millions to entertain us, then that proves that the money is there; it's our collective values that should be queried.
Agreed. How do we clean up the system? I used to believe we could change things by voting for honest politicians. Now, I don't think there are any. It seems my votes lately are for the lesser of two evils. These are the issues we need to be addressing, but, we are stuck on topics like this, which is exactly what they want. No federal money is used for abortions. The tapes we saw have not been verified as legitimate and could easily be put out there by the far right to distract us from real issues. If the tapes are found to be accurate, someone will be prosecuted for breaking the law. End of story. If abortions were illegal, PP would not be performing them. The bigger problem is, as MooseMom says, our collective values. I am not sure how to fix any of these problems. Term limits, disallowing political contributions? Please don't allow yourselves to be distracted. Pay closer attention to the big picture. Stop rewarding people who provide no significant contribution to our society besides entertainment. I don't know how to accomplish this, unless we all stop bickering about small stuff and come together to reclaim our government. Together, we can move mountains, which is why they keep us fighting over things that don't truly matter. Just my thoughts.
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Angiepkd, the unfortunate fact is that the majority of the electorate votes only in the presidential elections. President Obama's campaign was founded upon the desire to have both parties "work together". That is what the American people wanted, but one party defied the will of the American people and conspired to thwart everything thing the people voted for. Said voters then sat out the mid-terms, and the opposition was allowed to win and then redistrict their states, ie, gerrymander. At the next general election, again the people voted for the guy who wanted to "work together", but once again those same voters sat out the next set of mid-terms, so "working together" became a taboo.
We get the government we deserve. We get the candidates we deserve. If we don't have "honest politicians", then that is the fault of lazy Americans who can't be arsed to get involved and find and support "honest politicians". So, we end up with the nutcases and the extremists who are well funded by those who can buy politicians. Thank you, Citizens United.
So if we want PP to survive, we have to seek out and vote for candidates to want the same thing.
We the People are responsible for educating ourselves and not letting ourselves be distracted by orange-hued entertainers who have no solid policy ideas to put forward.
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For the winner, "Work Together" means "we'll get along just fine as long as things are done my way". It doesn't really matter if the Rs or Ds are in charge.
Sort of like how the Israelis are willing to "work together" with the Palestinians - as long as the later disarms, and the "working together" is done at the pleasure of Israel.
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In 2010, Planned Parenthood conducted a total of 329, 445 abortion procedures.
0.6% - Other health services
Reading that made me cry. OMG that is the population of my city. And that is "small stuff" to worry about? What are you saying? Abortion is a horrible death. I think this is unconscionable. People were outraged about a Lion? OMG help us.
Let the illegals and their children into this country as we kill our young everyday.
Abortion is legal so why did your friend die? Did this happen prior to 1974? This back ally abortion? Because if she died when she could have gone to PP why didn't she? If we have legal places to go and they Don't go then why have them? Back alley abortions will happen anyway.
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For the winner, "Work Together" means "we'll get along just fine as long as things are done my way". It doesn't really matter if the Rs or Ds are in charge.
Sort of like how the Israelis are willing to "work together" with the Palestinians - as long as the later disarms, and the "working together" is done at the pleasure of Israel.
And if it is not done my way... I'll F'in do it anyway! STAMP Boom Done
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In 1967 abortion was not legal the only option was to go to what was known as back alley abortion people who knew enough to perform the abortion but not enough to save the girl when things went wrong. Yes abortion is a tragedy but so is the loss of a young girl paying the ultimate price for a single mistake. It ended up shattering her family. Abortion has been legal for so long people forget the devestation caused by the back alley procedures, death, and permenjnent injury that we're all to common among the girls that felt that they had no choice. Every one forgets the stigma of unwed motherhood that existed in the 1960's.
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Every one forgets the stigma of unwed motherhood that existed in the 1960's.
Fortunately, many harmful stigmas are fading away. Being a gay athiest unwed mother is no longer considered cause for shame, or something the neighbors speak of in disapproving hushed tones.
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Whether or not there is stigma attached to unwed motherhood, sometimes women are faced with the awful decision to make as to what is best for them when they find themselves with an unplanned pregnancy. What if they have no resources to raise a child? Or what if they are in a situation where it would be dangerous for them or the child to bring the pregnancy to term?
Unless you have walked in the shoes of someone facing such situations, you should not judge. You can never know all the circumstances facing someone who has to contemplate such a difficult choice. If you think abortion is murder for religious reasons, then how to you square with stillborn infants, or miscarriages of dearly wanted fetuses. God's plan? Punishment for the families involved?
I have one living daughter, dearly wanted. I had two miscarriages of also dearly wanted children (one before my daughter and one after). But I have also had an abortion (legal) for an unwanted fourth pregnancy that came at a time that would have devastated our small family. We were very poor and struggling. I was unable to take the pill for health reasons. I had unsuccessfully tried two different kinds of IUDs. Unfortunately, despite countless measures I became pregnant at just the time I had re-entered the work force in my desired career. But it was OUR choice, though unfortunate, to terminate the pregnancy. I have NEVER regretted it. Because of that choice I have been able to have a career helping families raise bright and eager children into productive adults. That career would never have happened had I been faced with another child to care for myself. My window of opportunity would have closed. As an aside, after that abortion, my husband had a vasectomy to solve our birth control dilemma.
I have made a positive impact on the world. I look back on my life with gratitude that my husband and I had the freedom to make every single one of the choices I made.
Aleta
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I have made a positive impact on the world. I look back on my life with gratitude that my husband and I had the freedom to make every single one of the choices I made.
That was brave, thanks for sharing.
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I have made a positive impact on the world. I look back on my life with gratitude that my husband and I had the freedom to make every single one of the choices I made.
That was brave, thanks for sharing.
+1
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Thanks. It was not something I broadcast at the time, because there was even MORE anti-abortion sentiment then. As I have aged, I have a tougher skin and I know that speaking out might also make a difference for someone else. All that rhetoric about regretting the decision yada, yada, yada never applied to me or to any of the other women I know who have had abortions.
Aleta
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My sister had an illegal abortion in 1968 and regretted it until the day she died in 1993 of cancer she was 44.
Another sister (age 16) didn't tell my parents until she was 4 months along so they couldn't drag her to the doctor in 1970 and he is a brilliant successful business man with a family of his own.
Everyone has a story or knows someone.
Before I was a Christian and my life transformed I took my girlfriend to get an abortion in 1979 and it was awful. She has also regretted it, but didn't know she had a choice. The clinic encouraged her that it was the right thing to do took her money and that was that. She didn't even think of adopting it out to a family better off.
My roommate in college graduated as an RN and her first job was at an abortion clinic. She lasted 2 days. She said it was horrible. I won't go into detail because it probably would not phase you.
I'm not judging anyone but just trying to convince people .
:twocents;
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She has also regretted it, but didn't know she had a choice.
:twocents;
And this is why we should remain pro-choice.
I wish there were more people who would push for more pro-family policies. I have a friend in Norway who, when she had her babies, had a full year of paid parental leave. In that country, the first three months of parental leave are to be taken by the mother, and the remaining nine months can be split however the mother and father wish. Why can't we do that here? Oh, I know the answer that is always trotted out...that it would cost money and/or hurt business. Well, which is more important, supporting families or supporting business?
As a country, we have refused to spend money on education, food programs or any other sort of policies that may help to financially support families. Instead of spending so much time and resources decrying abortion, why not spend said resources on creating a society that not only supports the birth of babies but also of those babies' needs as they grow older?
This is the REAL "pro-choice" question. This is the REAL hypocrisy behind the whole "pro-family" façade. We can't be "pro-life" while being "anti-children".
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As a country, we have refused to spend money on education, food programs .....
WOW I would hate to see this country if this were true. You need to go volunteer in the schools MM.
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As a country, we have refused to spend money on education, food programs .....
WOW I would hate to see this country if this were true. You need to go volunteer in the schools MM.
What is really being talked about here is "transfer payments" from the makers to the takers. There is all the education you want if you are qualified and can afford it. Ditto for food.
When someone says "we refuse to spend money on ..." I hear "I want the govt to take more of your stuff and give it to someone who did not earn it".
or any other sort of policies that may help to financially support families
I hear "or any other sort of policies that will take money from the earners and give it to families that birthed babies without a financial plan to support them in place".
Yes, I know D is govt supported - but I spent a lifetime paying a medicare tax so I figure I paid an insurance premium for the benefits I am not receiving. In fact, I am doubly punished - I continue to pay this tax because I choose to work instead of collect disability, and I pay an medicare surcharge since I earn above the maximum unpenalized earning limit. I guess the govt is telling I really should attach to the public nipple and go on disability.
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I hate being on Disability. That is why I volunteer my ass off to try and repay my debt to society.
The schools are free to attend... 12 years of it. When you get there you are served breakfast, lunch and a sack dinner if you want it. The parks have lunch in the summer. If you are really hungry go pick apples and get paid!
That is way off topic. Again, we will see what happens to either PP or to the film takers.
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It's in the news: Since they are being investigated, Planned Parenthood has announced changes to their policy and will no longer be paid for fetal tissue.
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Thank you for sharing your story, Aleta. I hope that one day our country can unite and stop all of the partisan bs. :Kit n Stik;
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It's in the news: Since they are being investigated, Planned Parenthood has announced changes to their policy and will no longer be paid for fetal tissue.
But the deed is done. You can't say "I won't start any forests on fire anymore." You have already burned 4 million acres.
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It is a little known fact that:
By law, women getting abortions can voluntarily donate the tissue from that procedure to medical research, and by law the abortion provider can request nominal reimbursement $30 to $100 in most cases -- for saving, packing and shipping the tissue to a research firm.
The details of the process are enough to trouble anyone: non-medical people don't talk about the price of requesting, removing and shipping organs and pieces of flesh from place to place. Most of us would freak out if we listened to professionals in the local hospital, funeral home or medical examiner's office discuss details of how a dying person's request to have their body parts donated for transplants or scientific research actually gets carried out.
It turns out that cadavers, livers, kidneys, eyes and other organs don't walk themselves over to the local hospital or medical school for free.
For that matter, I'd urge anybody who has purchased an insurance policy that covers accidental death and dismemberment to peruse the fine print, which places dollar amounts indicating varying degrees of financial recovery for losing combinations of thumbs, fingers, eyes, legs and limbs.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/opinions/louis-planned-parenthood/
Those of us who are hopeful one day of receiving a cadaveric kidney transplant should be extra grateful that organs and tissue are indeed processed and available. Abortions are legal and they are a fact of life--until proven otherwise.
This "sting" video against Planned Parenthood is a deceptive video from a right wing anti-abortion group. One look at the unedited version and the transcripts of the video--released by the group, Center for Medical Progress, reveals the distortions for anyone to see who doesn't have a fixed a priori (politically or religiously motivated) opinion on the matter.
the full, unedited footage and transcript released by the group undermines their sensationalist claims, showing at least three crucial edits that reveal the Planned Parenthood official was instead discussing the reimbursement cost for consensual, legal tissue donations.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419
You can read about the film's deceptions in the link. http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419
I am pro-choice. In 1964 at the age of 23 (when abortions were illegal) I became pregnant (in spite of using several forms of birth control). I was in graduate school at the time and was unmarried. There is NO way that I could have or should have borne that child. I lived in California at the time and traveled to Tijuana, Mexico to have an abortion. I asked the first taxi driver I saw to take me to a abortion clinic. The abortion was not well performed and several days later I was hemoraging and my pulse was racing at a frightening high rate. I had to go to the ER and could easily have died. This is what happens when abortion is illegal. Women who are in no position to give birth and properly take care of that child are forced to go the "coat hanger route." I went to a clinic which was several steps above the neighborhood abortionist of the time. Like Aleta, I went on to do some very useful things with my life-- as a clinical psychologist and as an author of several books that have been very helpful to many people. Lord only knows what course my life might have taken it I had borne that child and had to give up all my hopes and dreams and the life of service I have led.
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The unpleasant fact that most anti abortion groups ignore is a majority of the people support it. These are folks who just want abortion to end and are willing to use any means necessary to achieve there goals. What they haven't done is try to change public opinion. Oh wait they have by creating phony videos, shooting doctors, and clinics, bombing, the more I go on they seem to be just like terrorists. This is America if you don't have a majority of people on your side you won't get it done. Abortion is a personal choice, it's the women's choice. The one thing not tried is to fund other choices, the burden of raising a child could be eased with support. Nope, they want you to have them and the burden is yours.
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I lived in California at the time and traveled to Tijuana, Mexico to have an abortion
Your courage posting this is impressive.
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The schools are free to attend... 12 years of it. When you get there you are served breakfast, lunch and a sack dinner if you want it.
Only if the government decides you are someone who should be the recipient of largess taken from others by force. If you are a middle class, suburban, non-minority, kid, you will pay if you want a lunch at school.
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Only if the government decides you are someone who should be the recipient of largess taken from others by force.
By force? Really?
What you're calling "largess" is derived from taxes-- the price we pay to live in a civilized country (even tho it's not looking very civilized these days). But it's not uncivilized because of "largess." It's because of greed and selfishness, xenophobia and a lack of empathy and a national philosophy based on social darwinism. I'm not a bible thumper, but are we still "my brother's keeper?"
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I'm offended by "bible thumper" Why don't you say Quran Thumper?
or Mohammad Dammit? Instead of GD?
Anyway until someone ends up in jail for this PP deal I will not be convinced that it never happens.
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Anyway until someone ends up in jail for this PP deal I will not be convinced that it never happens.
So be it.
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As a person receiving Social Security Disability I object to the statement that I am living on the largess of the government. I was gainfully employed for 45 years. Paying SSA taxes every one of those years. One of the benefits I was promised was disability insurance. Now that I am disabled I expect that the government that taxed me for 45 years provide the coverage they promised. In addition one of the reasons the disability fund is short money is that the last time they fixed Social Security most of the Disability Surpluus was moved to the general fund. During the last Bush economic downturn more people applied for disability then what was expected. If nothing is done people like me who paid for a benefit for 45 years will get a 20 to 30 percent cut in benefits.
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And so it begins...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/planned-parenthood-lawsuit-videos-center-medical-progress_5697ead3e4b0b4eb759d9a61
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It's about time.
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And so it begins...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/planned-parenthood-lawsuit-videos-center-medical-progress_5697ead3e4b0b4eb759d9a61
Good. Now Planned Parenthood will be subjected to legal discovery as well and we'll see how this turns out.
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Exactly, PatDowns! PP have been investigated in regard to these claims by every red state Governor, and each one has said they've found no evidence they they were "selling baby parts". So now this "Center for Medical Progress" is going to be subjected to legal discovery as well. PP must be feeling pretty safe if they are willing to bring a federal lawsuit.
Secretly recording people is illegal in the state where I live, and I have to wonder if this is the case in other states where these recordings took place.
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Investigation Into Planned Parenthood Leads To Indictment Of Anti-Abortion Activists: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/investigation-into-planned-parenthood-leads-to-indictment-of-anti-abortion-activists_us_56a69c92e4b0b87beec5cf61
AUSTIN, Texas, Jan 25 (Reuters) - A Texas grand jury has indicted two anti-abortion activists in a case involving covert videos on fetal tissue procurement talks with Planned Parenthood and found there was no wrongdoing on the part of the health group, a district attorney said on Monday.
The grand jury decision was a result of a probe launched last year under Texas Governor Greg Abbott, a Republican, who accused Planned Parenthood of the "gruesome harvesting of baby body parts." No evidence was provided by Texas to back the claim.
The videos released last summer led Texas and several other Republican-controlled states to try to halt funding for local Planned Parenthood operations.
"After a lengthy and thorough investigation by the Harris County District Attorney's Office, the Texas Rangers, and the Houston Police Department, a Harris County grand jury took no action Monday against Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast," the Harris County District Attorney's office said in a statement.
Planned Parenthood has denied the accusation and called the probe politically motivated.
David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt have been indicted by the grand jury for tampering with a governmental record, said prosecutors for the county in which Houston is located.
The two were involved in covert videos last year in which a discussion was held with a Planned Parenthood official on the procurement of fetal tissue.
Daleiden, founder of the Center for Medical Progress that released the videos, was also charged with violating a prohibition on the purchase and sale of human organs, a misdemeanor, the Harris County District Attorney said.
The videos purported to show Planned Parenthood officials trying to negotiate prices for aborted fetal tissue. Under federal law, donated human fetal tissue may be used for research, but profiting from its sale is prohibited.
Shortly after the release, Texas, the most populous Republican-controlled U.S. state, said it would launch a probe of Planned Parenthood.
"These people broke the law to spread malicious lies about Planned Parenthood in order to advance their extreme anti-abortion political agenda," said Eric Ferrero, vice president of Communications for Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
"As the dust settles and the truth comes out, it's become totally clear that the only people who engaged in wrongdoing are the criminals behind this fraud, and we're glad they're being held accountable," he said.
The Texas governor said: "Nothing about today's announcement in Harris County impacts the state's ongoing investigation."
In October, Texas raided several Planned Parenthood facilities in the state.
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They've been indicted IN TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg!
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Too bad for women's rights , with Trump in we will be back to illegal and unsafe abortion , a law won't stop it , just make it hard for women .