I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Off-Topic => Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry => Topic started by: iKAZ3D on May 11, 2013, 07:13:39 AM
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Everyday we are greeted with more and more gay marriage debates, but how much just makes you want to throw a brick at the TV and scream 'Bloody Murder'?
Images like this are satirical. They are joking at the common people and the Government and there claims. These are fine, and if I saw someone holding this sign, I'd say "I support you in every way".
When the whole Chick-Fil-A horse shit began, I knew they went beyond a point that was just too much! The CEO of Chick-Fil-A is a Christian. He does NOT believe in Homosexuality. OH MY FRIGGIN GOD IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? He didn't ban them from his resturaunts, he didn't tax them, he didn't do anything, he simply stated that he did not support them. Get a little butthurt, much, gays? And, uh, cows? They serve chicken...DERP.
This one is just...ignorant. Jumping on the racial bandwagon?
So, if you were never aware, people were attempting to change there profile pictures to this red equals sign to "show their support in gay marriage" on Facebook. Obviously, it didn't do to well. I didn't do it, because the lack of informed gays and ignorance within their communities has led me to stop fully supporting them. I'm sorry, being gay IS a choice. It's not a DIRECT choice, but you are not born gay.
OBAMA LIED TO YOU. 'Nuff said.
And here we end on the final note, the problem with ALL GAYS AND ALL GAY SUPPORTERS!
If you don't support gays, you are not fit to walk this Earth.
Tell me your experiences or opinions on the matter!
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It makes me sick. Now we have to hear about each SPORT one at a time to come out. We already know about women sports!~ I don't want to hear about Gay anything. they already have equal domestic rights. Why make marriage between a man and a woman weird too. Why make gay and Lesbian partnerships "normal" when it is not.
Weirdos''''.
:urcrazy;
PS your pictures are wayyyy to big. Admins may remove them. Our server can't support big images like that.
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It makes me sick. Now we have to hear about each SPORT one at a time to come out. We already know about women sports!~ I don't want to hear about Gay anything. they already have equal domestic rights. Why make marriage between a man and a woman weird too. Why make gay and Lesbian partnerships "normal" when it is not.
Weirdos''''.
:urcrazy;
PS your pictures are wayyyy to big. Admins may remove them. Our server can't support big images like that.
Too funny Rerun. I miss your neck of the woods. We are selling our house in CA and won't make it back up to Idaho until FIVE more weeks. Tell Dr. O hello.
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I don't want to hear about Gay anything. they already have equal domestic rights.
Actuality, they don't currently have equal rights, which is why your delicate, shell-like ears keep having to hear peoples' complaints. There are 400 state benefits and 1,100+ federal benefits granted to married couples. Here are just a few:
* Access to employer-provided heath and retirement benefits for partner and nonbiological/adoptive children.
* Access to partner's coverage under Medicare and Social Security.
* Ability to visit or make medical decisions for an ill or incapacitated partner.
* Right to sue for wrongful death of partner.
* Ability to sponsor one's partner for immigration.
* Joint insurance policies for home, auto and health.
* Joint parenting and Joint adoption.
* Bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child.
You have a problem with every married couple, regardless of sex, having these rights? By all means, let's hear why.
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I don't want to hear about Gay anything. they already have equal domestic rights.
Actuality, they don't currently have equal rights, which is why your delicate, shell-like ears keep having to hear peoples' complaints. There are 400 state benefits and 1,100+ federal benefits granted to married couples. Here are just a few:
* Access to employer-provided heath and retirement benefits for partner and nonbiological/adoptive children.
* Access to partner's coverage under Medicare and Social Security.
* Ability to visit or make medical decisions for an ill or incapacitated partner.
* Right to sue for wrongful death of partner.
* Ability to sponsor one's partner for immigration.
* Joint insurance policies for home, auto and health.
* Joint parenting and Joint adoption.
* Bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child.
You have a problem with every married couple, regardless of sex, having these rights? By all means, let's hear why.
Well, I will venture. The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.
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I sent you a PM iKAZ3D.
No links to images are allowed. Here's the rule:
About outside links to either PDF's, pictures, videos, etc. PLEASE DO NOT link them. If it is a worthy video, picture, or PDF, I can host it on the site, so we NEVER have dead links. I reserve the right to delete any and all outside links. So please ATTACH everything, if you can't attach it, ask me if I could attach it for you. To clarify to ALL members, I HATE OUTSIDE LINKS, DO NOT POST LINKS to files, links to a website is ok, but please do not link things like: pictures, flash, pdf's, videos, etc, etc. See the rule above to understand why. To clarify you can attach images and .PDF files just do not link to them.
Please remove the links or I will have to send this thread to the recycle bin.
Thanks,
okarol/admin
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I sent you a PM iKAZ3D.
No links to images are allowed. Here's the rule:
About outside links to either PDF's, pictures, videos, etc. PLEASE DO NOT link them. If it is a worthy video, picture, or PDF, I can host it on the site, so we NEVER have dead links. I reserve the right to delete any and all outside links. So please ATTACH everything, if you can't attach it, ask me if I could attach it for you. To clarify to ALL members, I HATE OUTSIDE LINKS, DO NOT POST LINKS to files, links to a website is ok, but please do not link things like: pictures, flash, pdf's, videos, etc, etc. See the rule above to understand why. To clarify you can attach images and .PDF files just do not link to them.
Please remove the links or I will have to send this thread to the recycle bin.
Thanks,
okarol/admin
Sorry about that, Okarol! I wasn't thinking! I wanted them displayed in order, also. :P My bad. I will accept any and all liquid restrictions. :rofl;
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Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.
Oppression is oppression.
This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.
What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness.
What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)
funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.
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By the way.
Yeah. I'm queer. And I would HATE for my partner not to be allowed to visit me. But I'm weird and abnormal like that. Having loved ones or wanting to spend my life with someone who loves me. So abnormal.
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Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.
Oppression is oppression.
This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.
What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness.
What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)
funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.
No problem Ladystardust24, I certainly won't tell you how to live your life. God has granted free will to all. I personally believe that God is real, His Bible is real and I try to adhere to that as best I can because I already have enough to answer for on the day I stand before Him. Sorry, that is not ignorant, that is just my belief. If you have your own beliefs, so be it.
The topic that I referred to is marriage and I believe God already defined that as between a man and a woman. If your beliefs are different, so be it, believe what you wish. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
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Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.
Oppression is oppression.
This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.
What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness.
What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)
funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.
A) I do support gays, but its getting to the point where they are spewing out so much nonsense about things that they think helps their cause and hinders other causes that it's become irritating.
B) Religion has its own role, none which I play, but just as gays have their rights, religious folks have their rights. Gays need to stop being hypocritical about that.
C) The problem I mostly have with gays is if you don't support gays, then you are scum of the Earth. It does not matter your reasoning, your position, your intelligence level, your experience, your history, anything. You are SCUM.
It makes me sick. Now we have to hear about each SPORT one at a time to come out. We already know about women sports!~ I don't want to hear about Gay anything. they already have equal domestic rights. Why make marriage between a man and a woman weird too. Why make gay and Lesbian partnerships "normal" when it is not.
Weirdos''''.
Well, that's your opinion on their love. Yes, I agree, it is their love and affection, and we can't change that:
BUT: When they continuously neglect to accept that the U.S can't tolerate their Gay Marriage protests and shit at this time of bad economy and political unrest (What with Obama and crap), then it gets irritating and we have a right to say "NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT." It's like talking to a little child. "NO, YOU CAN'T" and then they go and throw temper tantrums and call prejudice (just like African Americans call racist and Muslims call ALLAH ACK-BAH)
When will they realize no is no?
Well, I will venture. The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.
I respect your beliefs, but those are YOUR beliefs. Not ours. I don't see a God, I don't hear a God, so let's keep our discussions about who should have rights in America between the people and someone we can see and hear. You can pray to God about the disgrace in America at night.
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Why?
Because there is a separation of church and state.
There are other countries that provide civil unions for EVERYONE. Regardless whether they are LGBTA or straight. Their civil unions, give them the same rights as marriage does in this country. Civil unions here do not give you the same rights. You cannot visit your loved one. For some of us. that's a big issue. It's important that if we are sick, our partner has a right to carry out our wishes.
Saying gay people throw tantrums wanting marriage, is on par with someone telling you. "You've been denied a transplant here. Why are you still bitching?"
There are hospitals that will deny you a transplant, for whatever reason they believe. And to them, that reason is completely valid. And you cannot do anything to change that team's mind.
Ideally, we'd all be able to get transplants, to live our lives, free. To be treated human. To live life, to love. To have our human rights intact.
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Dear iKAZ3D,
Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.
However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.
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Why?
Because there is a separation of church and state.
There are other countries that provide civil unions for EVERYONE. Regardless whether they are LGBTA or straight. Their civil unions, give them the same rights as marriage does in this country. Civil unions here do not give you the same rights. You cannot visit your loved one. For some of us. that's a big issue. It's important that if we are sick, our partner has a right to carry out our wishes.
Saying gay people throw tantrums wanting marriage, is on par with someone telling you. "You've been denied a transplant here. Why are you still bitching?"
There are hospitals that will deny you a transplant, for whatever reason they believe. And to them, that reason is completely valid. And you cannot do anything to change that team's mind.
Ideally, we'd all be able to get transplants, to live our lives, free. To be treated human. To live life, to love. To have our human rights intact.
I'm sorry, did you just try to draw a parallel between being DENIED a Kidney Transplant (which means unknown time on Dialysis which leads to sickness and eventually Death)
and...
Gays being told they can't get marriage rights?
My brain hurts...I never thought I'd find such ignorance on iHateDIALYSIS.com...
*whispering to my brain*
Dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay-dialysis-gay
Dialysis...IS gay?
:urcrazy;
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Dear iKAZ3D,
Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.
However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.
I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.
But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...
Keep. It. Private.
You never know what someone's religion is.
Separation of Church & State
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Why?
Because there is a separation of church and state.
There are other countries that provide civil unions for EVERYONE. Regardless whether they are LGBTA or straight. Their civil unions, give them the same rights as marriage does in this country. Civil unions here do not give you the same rights. You cannot visit your loved one. For some of us. that's a big issue. It's important that if we are sick, our partner has a right to carry out our wishes.
Saying gay people throw tantrums wanting marriage, is on par with someone telling you. "You've been denied a transplant here. Why are you still bitching?"
There are hospitals that will deny you a transplant, for whatever reason they believe. And to them, that reason is completely valid. And you cannot do anything to change that team's mind.
Ideally, we'd all be able to get transplants, to live our lives, free. To be treated human. To live life, to love. To have our human rights intact.
I spent twenty years as a physician and had "gay couples" that were my patients both in the clinic and in hospitals. Not sure why folks state that gay partners are not allowed to visit, never saw it in all the years I was in practice. If you are concerned about that, give your partner durable power of attorney for medical care and legally they will not have anything to worry about. Your fears I don't believe are well founded. It only takes a few minutes to fill out a durable power of attorney and have a notary seal attached. I have already done that with my wife and myself. That is simply prudent. So, if that is concern, that is the legal way to establish your wishes and that applies to everyone, not just gay or straight. That is the method to achieve your wishes.
If you want to live like a human, go do it. I am not stopping you. But I disagree with your choice personally, but you are free to make your own decisions on how you live your life.
If you wish to redefine marriage, then I would recommend discussing that with God who defined it already. As far as civil unions and state and Federal rights, take it up with the government. That is the American way.
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Dear iKAZ3D,
Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.
However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.
I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.
But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...
Keep. It. Private.
You never know what someone's religion is.
Separation of Church & State
Ahhhh, separation of church and state. Well, this may be a bit of fun. Am I the government???? Is IHD government owned????
Keep it private. Well, IHD is a public forum where EPOMAN enjoyed discussing religion. Sorry, my friend, but I don't believe you set the rules here at IHD.
In any case, I believe you don't understand the concept of separation of church and state. Not surprising since that is not taught accurately in public schools any longer. In case you are interested, the history of separation of church and state is of Baptist origin by the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams in reaction to the state sanctioned religions in Europe.
The prohibition was against establishing a religion at the Federal level. The 1st amendment was not incorporated into the 14th amendment to apply to state and local governments until the 20th century.
I believe your statement conveys a view of "freedom FROM religion" not freedom of religion which is what the 1st amendment is all about.
But in any case, religious views and opinions are not banned on IHD for your information.
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The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.
That's fine, but whose interpretation of God would that one be? Are you really sure that whatever religion you hold dear is absolutely the correct one? Has it ever changed its policies or politics over the years? Has it ever had a schism over some fine point? If so, which version was correct, and can you prove it or just take it as an article of faith?
Marriage is both a sacred and secular institution. It may be blessed by your version of an almighty, but it also has to follow the rules of the state. Since I'm betting your version of religion doesn't see eye-to-eye with every other version of religion (or lack or religion), the only thing we all can agree on the secular stuff. That's how America works. You're free to believe whatever you want and I'm free to believe whatever I want, and together we manage to muddle along through the week because we still agree about most things. Like, y'know, we both hate dialysis.
If you don't want gay people to be married within the rules of your church, that's fine. You don't have to let them in. But you can't then deny them the same freedom you have when they're outside of your church. When it comes time to the real world of contracts, law, and money, the name of the name is called rights and responsibilities. Every American citizen deserves equal rights under the law, it's as simple as that. If you're going to live in a civilization which is funded, in part, by the labor, ingenuity, and taxes of gay people, you owe them the right to get married.
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Dear iKAZ3D,
Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.
However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.
I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.
But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...
Keep. It. Private.
You never know what someone's religion is.
Separation of Church & State
Ahhhh, separation of church and state. Well, this may be a bit of fun. Am I the government???? Is IHD government owned????
Keep it private. Well, IHD is a public forum where EPOMAN enjoyed discussing religion. Sorry, my friend, but I don't believe you set the rules here at IHD.
In any case, I believe you don't understand the concept of separation of church and state. Not surprising since that is not taught accurately in public schools any longer. In case you are interested, the history of separation of church and state is of Baptist origin by the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams in reaction to the state sanctioned religions in Europe.
The prohibition was against establishing a religion at the Federal level. The 1st amendment was not incorporated into the 14th amendment to apply to state and local governments until the 20th century.
I believe your statement conveys a view of "freedom FROM religion" not freedom of religion which is what the 1st amendment is all about.
But in any case, religious views and opinions are not banned on IHD for your information.
I meant to clarify "in public". But even on forums, you should intend to keep your religious views out of your ideas, responses, and viewpoints. Just as somebody finds it offensive if you disown their religion, I find it offensive if you "I'm praying for you" when I know damn well that's done nothing and will do nothing. So who doesn't have to live with the offenses? Or should we just cut out the things that offend us i.e religion. Keep it at home with your loved ones and in your mind while on the forum and no one gets offended. Remove a variable from an equation and you no longer can solve the equation because that piece is gone. Is doesn't happen.
The piece is religion for both sides, whether a strong believer or a disbeliever.
Cut out: Religion
And you have: Discussions without offense...
Other than insults laid by the third party.
And Separation of Church & State means exactly what it sounds like. Separate Church from ... State. As opposed to 14th Century Europe when the Holy Roman Catholic Church WAS the Government.
That was ruled unfair for the well being of all.
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yes, I did.
Bioethics operates on the same level as religion does.
Most people here are aware of the history behind transplantation and dialysis. Life committees, and cherry picking when it comes to transplantation. Many here have endured unfair denial to transplant, because of an arbitrary reasons. Want another similarity? Ethic boards who decide on transplants, believe you can live on dialysis. That it's not ideal, but it's doable.
So for comparison value to the topic at hand: Dialysis is a civil union. You're not dead, you still get to live. So, you just shut up, and be happy you're not dead. Transplant is like marriage. To an ethics board, they decide that you don't deserve that right, that you live just fine and dandy on dialysis. You don't need those extra things you get with a transplant.
Obviously, many of us anger at that thought. Who are these people to decide what is good for us? What is good enough for us? No one can decide that for us, except ourselves. Many but not all, agree. Transplant is a better and provides quality of life you miss out on dialysis.
The comparison? It feels shitty. You are not treated as a human being. And that in itself, feels shitty and is truly unethical.
I've had people tell me they are bothered how much I talk about healthcare, or how serious kidney disease is. They don't want to hear about illness/disease. They'd rather we just shut up. It's not their problem. So they don't care. It doesn't matter, because it doesn't effect you. Why should it?
If you hate ignorance of people who do not understand what it's like to need a transplant and it bothers you. You have some basic understanding of oppression.What it feels like to be treated like you don't matter, your human rights don't matter. Get that basic understanding down, and you can empathize with other groups that are told to shut up and take it.
Struggle is struggle.
Also, note that the religion you speak of is Christianity. Not all of us here are Christians. Assuming that, is pretty silly. For the record, I'm not against religion. I am however against the assumption that everyone is Christian. Not all of us are.
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The issue for many of us is who is it that defines what marriage is? We believe God already did that a long time ago. If you wish to take it up with God, so be it. You certainly have every right to complain to Him if you wish. So for those of us who believe in God, the issue is already settled my friend.
That's fine, but whose interpretation of God would that one be? Are you really sure that whatever religion you hold dear is absolutely the correct one? Has it ever changed its policies or politics over the years? Has it ever had a schism over some fine point? If so, which version was correct, and can you prove it or just take it as an article of faith?
Marriage is both a sacred and secular institution. It may be blessed by your version of an almighty, but it also has to follow the rules of the state. Since I'm betting your version of religion doesn't see eye-to-eye with every other version of religion (or lack or religion), the only thing we all can agree on the secular stuff. That's how America works. You're free to believe whatever you want and I'm free to believe whatever I want, and together we manage to muddle along through the week because we still agree about most things. Like, y'know, we both hate dialysis.
If you don't want gay people to be married within the rules of your church, that's fine. You don't have to let them in. But you can't then deny them the same freedom you have when they're outside of your church. When it comes time to the real world of contracts, law, and money, the name of the name is called rights and responsibilities. Every American citizen deserves equal rights under the law, it's as simple as that. If you're going to live in a civilization which is funded, in part, by the labor, ingenuity, and taxes of gay people, you owe them the right to get married.
Never stated I would deny anyone do what ever they wish. I do believe that there are consequences for our actions and that we will all stand before God Almighty. He states that there is no other god and I believe that.
Now, let's take it a step further. If you define gay rights as a civil right and no discrimination against that civil right, then yes, churches that refuse to marry gay couples could be prosecuted or sued for exercising their beliefs. That is the real opposition against redefining marriage. Since most American Christian churches are incorporated in their state, yes, all laws against discrimination if it included gay marriage could force pastors in churches to perform gay marriage against the teaching of the Bible. So who would be oppressing who my friend?
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Dear iKAZ3D,
Sorry, my friend, you are new here to IHD. The owner and originator of IHD was known as EPOMAN. He enjoyed discussion controversial issues and he believed in God and the Bible. Look up some of his old threads and you will that plainly. This is in an off topic section where all issues are allowed. I didn't discuss "rights" only the definition of marriage. If folks wish to petition the government to recognize their relationships and get Federal status, that is up to them to go about it through legitimate political means. That is the American way.
However, I will speak my opinion here and elsewhere, not only at night my friend. That was EPOMAN's wishes God rest his soul. Time for you to go back and and learn who EPOMAN truly was and then know and understand he supported and defended God and the Bible on this forum. That is the history of IHD. That is part of EPOMAN's legacy.
I learned who Epoman was. He was a great guy for creating this site.
But I'll say the same thing for Christianity that I do for Judaism and Islam and every other religion...
Keep. It. Private.
You never know what someone's religion is.
Separation of Church & State
Ahhhh, separation of church and state. Well, this may be a bit of fun. Am I the government???? Is IHD government owned????
Keep it private. Well, IHD is a public forum where EPOMAN enjoyed discussing religion. Sorry, my friend, but I don't believe you set the rules here at IHD.
In any case, I believe you don't understand the concept of separation of church and state. Not surprising since that is not taught accurately in public schools any longer. In case you are interested, the history of separation of church and state is of Baptist origin by the founder of the state of Rhode Island, Roger Williams in reaction to the state sanctioned religions in Europe.
The prohibition was against establishing a religion at the Federal level. The 1st amendment was not incorporated into the 14th amendment to apply to state and local governments until the 20th century.
I believe your statement conveys a view of "freedom FROM religion" not freedom of religion which is what the 1st amendment is all about.
But in any case, religious views and opinions are not banned on IHD for your information.
I meant to clarify "in public". But even on forums, you should intend to keep your religious views out of your ideas, responses, and viewpoints. Just as somebody finds it offensive if you disown their religion, I find it offensive if you "I'm praying for you" when I know damn well that's done nothing and will do nothing. So who doesn't have to live with the offenses? Or should we just cut out the things that offend us i.e religion. Keep it at home with your loved ones and in your mind while on the forum and no one gets offended. Remove a variable from an equation and you no longer can solve the equation because that piece is gone. Is doesn't happen.
The piece is religion for both sides, whether a strong believer or a disbeliever.
Cut out: Religion
And you have: Discussions without offense...
Other than insults laid by the third party.
And Separation of Church & State means exactly what it sounds like. Separate Church from ... State. As opposed to 14th Century Europe when the Holy Roman Catholic Church WAS the Government.
That was ruled unfair for the well being of all.
Well, the major opposition to changing the definition of marriage is based on religious ideology. To construe a discussion about gay marriage without considering this is a bit naive. Separation of church and state is 180 degrees in opposition to the original meaning of keeping the government out of the hands of the church. Today, it is construed as "freedom from religion" which is in a sense what you implied in your first comment about church and state.
So, the question was why would someone oppose gay marriage and I gave my answer. Sorry, that is perfectly acceptable here on IHD.
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Not that I come around often. But this is basically why.
Oppression is oppression.
This whole thread shows utter ignorance and stupidity.
What I find ironic? People here want to be treated like human beings? Well what makes us different from animals is ability to empathize. Which you seem to lack. The only thing I see about anti gay. Especially when I see it coming from people who understand what it's like to be treated like you're not even human, is bitterness.
What's funny, pretty sure everyone here has had to argue with religious based ignorance of why you're sick. (Obviously, because God wanted it that way?)
funny, pretty sure everyone here waiting for a transplant, wouldn't say no or stop their rejection drugs, upon finding out their donor is gay. So, it's only okay if it's good for you. If it agrees with you/benefits you.
I wish you would come around more often, Ladystardust. I absolutely *adore* your posts and would find it so hard to believe that you are so young and have had so many obstacles to overcome, except I've met you. Your writing shows a woman wise waaaaaay beyond her years.
iKAZ, you've complained about your friends (or should I say "friends"?) not wanting to hear about your dialysis issues and accusing you of wittering on about it when you know that you're not doing that. Do you not see the parallel in what you're doing here? You're sick of hearing about gay rights, you say their cause "hinders other causes" (how exactly?) and yet I assume you are not gay yourself so really, you don't have to deal with the lack of equal rights. Your "friends" are not on dialysis and don't have to deal with the nightmarish state of in-centre dialysis in the US, so they are sick of hearing about it. You seem to think the one opinion is fair, while the other is quite cold.
I'm glad you have a place like IHD to come talk to us when the people in your life treat you like you're a bore for talking about dialysis. We won't tell you that we're sick of hearing about it (well, I suppose it's possible someone will, but hopefully not). Discrimination can absolutely result in death, and it has done in the case of homophobia. The more we can cast homosexuals as some deviant, less-than-human race, the more people will think that it's good fun to find a few and beat the living daylights out of them.
And generalizing that all people who are gay or support gay rights think exactly the same thing about you is not going to endear you to any of us who fall into one of those groups. I take issue with you attributing feelings to me that I don't have.
Actuality, they don't currently have equal rights, which is why your delicate, shell-like ears keep having to hear peoples' complaints.
"delicate, shell-like ears"! :rofl;
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I've been following this thread, and wasn't going to put my :twocents in, but I had to when I saw ladystardust equate being denied gay marriage with being denied a transplant: ladystardust, if you cant marry your partner, it wont in any way shape or form possibly kill you. That was a little sickening not to mention dramatic which I think was the point the OP was trying to make, who by the way, sounds like a very intelligent and well spoken young man whom I happen to agree with. YOU don't have to.
y
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I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
-
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
This post. :bow;
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I've been following this thread, and wasn't going to put my :twocents in, but I had to when I saw ladystardust equate being denied gay marriage with being denied a transplant: ladystardust, if you cant marry your partner, it wont in any way shape or form possibly kill you. That was a little sickening not to mention dramatic which I think was the point the OP was trying to make, who by the way, sounds like a very intelligent and well spoken young man whom I happen to agree with. YOU don't have to.
y
She made an "ok" parallel. However, she made an outward reach into things you just had to branch off and work around to reach HER conclusion. To make a parallel work, the two things have to coincide. And thank you, I never really think of myself as 'intelligent'.
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I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
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Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
-
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
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You are intellegent, especially for your age!
As for her parallel, I totally understand what she meant, and i can also understand why everyone took it wrong... its a very sensitive subject. but it does make a good point.
There are people out there who completely condemn someone for "chosing" to be gay, but would take their kidney with out a second thought... or whatever else they might need at the time.
Yes you cant die from not marrying the one you love, but it can hurt worse than death...
...OH and I forgot one more thing, on that whole choice to be gay thing, even if someone chose not to follow their true feelings, and chose to ACT straight, do you really think thats any better an arguement for the 'sanctity of marriage'? I personally wouldnt want to find out my entire relationship is a lie. They may love the person they chose to marry, but not in the way they would love who they were BORN to love... and thats just sad. and wrong.
I am not pro or con anything, i can always see both sides of it all... but in this case i believe that they should be able to marry.
"If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well."
Great point! I think that would be quite ridiculous, when I am sure there will be plenty of pastors who would, so anyone who would sue over this... those are the idiots the OP is refering to, and I agree wholeheartedly.
And I do agree with you, ikaz3d, that sometimes there are a 'few' who take things entirely too far. (look at the WBC...) not just in the Gay Rights movement, but on all sides of every coin.
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You are intellegent, especially for your age!
As for her parallel, I totally understand what she meant, and i can also understand why everyone took it wrong... its a very sensitive subject. but it does make a good point.
There are people out there who completely condemn someone for "chosing" to be gay, but would take their kidney with out a second thought... or whatever else they might need at the time.
Yes you cant die from not marrying the one you love, but it can hurt worse than death...
...OH and I forgot one more thing, on that whole choice to be gay thing, even if someone chose not to follow their true feelings, and chose to ACT straight, do you really think thats any better an arguement for the 'sanctity of marriage'? I personally wouldnt want to find out my entire relationship is a lie. They may love the person they chose to marry, but not in the way they would love who they were BORN to love... and thats just sad. and wrong.
I am not pro or con anything, i can always see both sides of it all... but in this case i believe that they should be able to marry.
"If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well."
Great point! I think that would be quite ridiculous, when I am sure there will be plenty of pastors who would, so anyone who would sue over this... those are the idiots the OP is refering to, and I agree wholeheartedly.
And I do agree with you, ikaz3d, that sometimes there are a 'few' who take things entirely too far. (look at the WBC...) not just in the Gay Rights movement, but on all sides of every coin.
Westboro Baptist Church can burn in whatever religious penitentiary of doom it believes in. Anyone who follows that church is a narcissistic prick.
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Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for.
Then I'm confused. Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself.
However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why.
Again, I'm not really following. I *think* you are saying that if you don't agree with them on some political stance or other, then they treat you like you are 'scum of the earth?' Perhaps the homosexuals that you know are like that, my issue is when you say *all* and include us supporters as well. I lived in San Francisco for years. I do not recognise what you are describing, and I lived in the heart of Gay Central Station.
Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
This is how the free market is supposed to work, people "vote" with their money. Surely, if you are going to shed a tear for Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart (the latter being an historically heinous company, to be honest) then you must also shake your fist at the Southern Baptists who wanted to boycott Disney because they were recognising 'life partners' and JC Penney who were boycotted for having Ellen Degeneres as their spokeswoman? Corporations are not causes (nor are they people, but that's another debate :)) Can you tell me how homosexuals, in standing up for their rights, "hinder other causes"?
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I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
Not so my friend, it is my hope and prayer that you will find out quite the opposite in the rest of your life. I was at one time in my younger days very much opposed to Christianity, but God had other plans for me and sent a wonderful man to witness of God's grace and truth. I hope that will be true for you as well.
God bless,
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
-
You are intellegent, especially for your age!
As for her parallel, I totally understand what she meant, and i can also understand why everyone took it wrong... its a very sensitive subject. but it does make a good point.
There are people out there who completely condemn someone for "chosing" to be gay, but would take their kidney with out a second thought... or whatever else they might need at the time.
Yes you cant die from not marrying the one you love, but it can hurt worse than death...
...OH and I forgot one more thing, on that whole choice to be gay thing, even if someone chose not to follow their true feelings, and chose to ACT straight, do you really think thats any better an arguement for the 'sanctity of marriage'? I personally wouldnt want to find out my entire relationship is a lie. They may love the person they chose to marry, but not in the way they would love who they were BORN to love... and thats just sad. and wrong.
I am not pro or con anything, i can always see both sides of it all... but in this case i believe that they should be able to marry.
"If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well."
Great point! I think that would be quite ridiculous, when I am sure there will be plenty of pastors who would, so anyone who would sue over this... those are the idiots the OP is refering to, and I agree wholeheartedly.
And I do agree with you, ikaz3d, that sometimes there are a 'few' who take things entirely too far. (look at the WBC...) not just in the Gay Rights movement, but on all sides of every coin.
Westboro Baptist Church can burn in whatever religious penitentiary of doom it believes in. Anyone who follows that church is a narcissistic prick.
Westboro Baptist Church is anything but a Christian church and definitely not Baptist. They thrive on the lawsuits that are created resisting their organization. It is simply one more deluded cult among many in the US.
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/439213575.html
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Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for.
Then I'm confused. Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself.
However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why.
Again, I'm not really following. I *think* you are saying that if you don't agree with them on some political stance or other, then they treat you like you are 'scum of the earth?' Perhaps the homosexuals that you know are like that, my issue is when you say *all* and include us supporters as well. I lived in San Francisco for years. I do not recognise what you are describing, and I lived in the heart of Gay Central Station.
Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
This is how the free market is supposed to work, people "vote" with their money. Surely, if you are going to shed a tear for Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart (the latter being an historically heinous company, to be honest) then you must also shake your fist at the Southern Baptists who wanted to boycott Disney because they were recognising 'life partners' and JC Penney who were boycotted for having Ellen Degeneres as their spokeswoman? Corporations are not causes (nor are they people, but that's another debate :)) Can you tell me how homosexuals, in standing up for their rights, "hinder other causes"?
They hinder other causes when they are building up theirs. They hinder the causes such as Christianity and such just because they don't believe in their cause.
If I don't believe in a cause, is it up to me to undermine the other cause?
It happens on both sides. They both undermine each other. Neither is right.
IN RED: No, gays and gay supporters (most) act as if if you do not support homosexual marriage you are scum of the Earth no matter what your stance means. It does not matter whether religious, scientific, Hillbilic (lol), I've seen way too many hateful attacks on intelligent people stating CALMLY AND PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY why they think that it shouldn't be allowed, and then all the gays and supporters just attack and attack. You don't have to be pro gay. It's not a requirement by law or conscious mind. Sometimes, gays act like it is...more often than not.
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Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for.
Then I'm confused. Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself.
However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why.
Again, I'm not really following. I *think* you are saying that if you don't agree with them on some political stance or other, then they treat you like you are 'scum of the earth?' Perhaps the homosexuals that you know are like that, my issue is when you say *all* and include us supporters as well. I lived in San Francisco for years. I do not recognise what you are describing, and I lived in the heart of Gay Central Station.
Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
This is how the free market is supposed to work, people "vote" with their money. Surely, if you are going to shed a tear for Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart (the latter being an historically heinous company, to be honest) then you must also shake your fist at the Southern Baptists who wanted to boycott Disney because they were recognising 'life partners' and JC Penney who were boycotted for having Ellen Degeneres as their spokeswoman? Corporations are not causes (nor are they people, but that's another debate :)) Can you tell me how homosexuals, in standing up for their rights, "hinder other causes"?
They hinder other causes when they are building up theirs. They hinder the causes such as Christianity and such just because they don't believe in their cause.
If I don't believe in a cause, is it up to me to undermine the other cause?
It happens on both sides. They both undermine each other. Neither is right.
IN RED: No, gays and gay supporters (most) act as if if you do not support homosexual marriage you are scum of the Earth no matter what your stance means. It does not matter whether religious, scientific, Hillbilic (lol), I've seen way too many hateful attacks on intelligent people stating CALMLY AND PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY why they think that it shouldn't be allowed, and then all the gays and supporters just attack and attack. You don't have to be pro gay. It's not a requirement by law or conscious mind. Sometimes, gays act like it is...more often than not.
This goes for arguments across the board. Supporting wars, supporting presidents, supporting anything, you will always have people biting the backsides of those who dont share the same side.
this has gone on since time began... the only difference is back then, there was no tv, no internet, so it was less heard of. now it is jammed in our faces 24/7/365
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
Or does Toys R Us send them Action Figures? :rofl;
It's also funny, because the Bible condemns EATING SHRIMP8 TIMES
Where as it condemns homosexuality twice.
Christians eat shrimp.
See the logic of the Bible?
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.
As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.
God bless,
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.
As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.
God bless,
She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.
-
They hinder other causes when they are building up theirs. They hinder the causes such as Christianity and such just because they don't believe in their cause.
Yes, but, plenty of people try to hinder the gay cause in the name of Christianity, so I just don't see how homosexual activists could be considered worse.
If I don't believe in a cause, is it up to me to undermine the other cause?
Well, if the cause is to oppress you, then yes. That is the issue, that some Christian groups want to restrict gay rights.
It happens on both sides. They both undermine each other. Neither is right.
I believe equality is right, so while I agree it happens on both sides, I disagree that there is not a right or wrong to this.
IN RED: No, gays and gay supporters (most) act as if if you do not support homosexual marriage you are scum of the Earth no matter what your stance means. It does not matter whether religious, scientific, Hillbilic (lol), I've seen way too many hateful attacks on intelligent people stating CALMLY AND PEACEFULLY AND RESPECTFULLY why they think that it shouldn't be allowed, and then all the gays and supporters just attack and attack. You don't have to be pro gay. It's not a requirement by law or conscious mind. Sometimes, gays act like it is...more often than not.
Well, I can see why that would be disturbing to see what you are describing, but no matter how many homosexual people you know, you only know a wee fraction of all homosexuals, so while your experiences are interesting, they may not be giving you an accurate picture of the majority of homosexuals. I have to think that if you were fighting for your rights, you would get pretty passionate about it, maybe even be driven to do things that might seem extreme. I don't know, maybe not.
Anyhow, I think we agree on parts of this (for example, respect is all too rare in political arguments) but we'll have to agree to disagree on whether homosexuals are (in general) going too far in their quest for equal rights. Thanks for addressing my questions!
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.
As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.
God bless,
She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.
You asked a question above, WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH? If you are interested in the answer from the Bible about that, send me a pm and I would be glad to lay out the evidence for you to review yourself. I believe Jesus when He stated:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I was an agnostic for 36 years, then a friend of mine hit me over the head with Bible prophecy for a year and a half. That was after I was already a practicing medical doctor quite engaged in the whole evolution thing. So, up to you, if you wish to hear my answer from the Bible to your question, send me a pm.
Take care,
Peter
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.
As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.
God bless,
She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.
You asked a question above, WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH? If you are interested in the answer from the Bible about that, send me a pm and I would be glad to lay out the evidence for you to review yourself. I believe Jesus when He stated:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I was an agnostic for 36 years, then a friend of mine hit me over the head with Bible prophecy for a year and a half. That was after I was already a practicing medical doctor quite engaged in the whole evolution thing. So, up to you, if you wish to hear my answer from the Bible to your question, send me a pm.
Take care,
Peter
Wouldn't that be rather narcissistic and biased to find out the correct and truthful religion from a RELIGIOUS TEXT?
-
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
that pic is hilarious.
I do not practice Christianity. I do not have a specified religion, although what i believe is similar to many religions... I believe if you are an honest, good person, and try to do the "right" thing, that is all that matters. That is all that SHOULD matter.
I know what that book says very well, and like I said, people dont read it as a whole, they just take whatever line they chose to represent at any given time.
I am sure that most people who choose to quote scripture for condemnation fail to notice what type of fabrics they are wearing, weather or not they loved thy neighbor, or coveted what someone else has, had a hair cut, had impure thoughts, or ate a pig....
but we arent picketting against any of that............
-
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
that pic is hilarious.
I do not practice Christianity. I do not have a specified religion, although what i believe is similar to many religions... I believe if you are an honest, good person, and try to do the "right" thing, that is all that matters. That is all that SHOULD matter.
I know what that book says very well, and like I said, people dont read it as a whole, they just take whatever line they chose to represent at any given time.
I am sure that most people who choose to quote scripture for condemnation fail to notice what type of fabrics they are wearing, weather or not they loved thy neighbor, or coveted what someone else has, had a hair cut, had impure thoughts, or ate a pig....
but we arent picketting against any of that............
No problem, in any case, if you are interested in the verses in the Bible on homosexuality, then just send me a pm anyway.
God bless,
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
I agree, God is our Judge, but what Jesus stated is something to consider, for those that believe in God as you state you do:
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
So yes, what the Bible is important since it was important to Jesus Himself.
As far as "radical nutjobs judging," well, Christians are not radical, just sinners saved by grace wishing to tell all where to find that grace. Nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the verses, if you are really interested, send me a pm and I will show you several of those verses if you wish.
God bless,
She said "My god". Once again, christianity is not the only religion that praises a god. That's the problem.
You asked a question above, WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH? If you are interested in the answer from the Bible about that, send me a pm and I would be glad to lay out the evidence for you to review yourself. I believe Jesus when He stated:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I was an agnostic for 36 years, then a friend of mine hit me over the head with Bible prophecy for a year and a half. That was after I was already a practicing medical doctor quite engaged in the whole evolution thing. So, up to you, if you wish to hear my answer from the Bible to your question, send me a pm.
Take care,
Peter
Wouldn't that be rather narcissistic and biased to find out the correct and truthful religion from a RELIGIOUS TEXT?
Actually, not at all my friend. If you are ever interested, send me a pm anyway.
God bless,
-
Let me reiterate, I am perfectly PRO GAY. I support gays and gay marriage. I have multiple gay friends that I would take bullets for. However, the arguments they pose sometimes irritate me because they act as if if someone is against them, they are scum of the Earth. It does not matter why. Also, the gay protests are not peaceful. They are undermining to other people. They include attacks to franchises such as Chick-Fil-A and Wal-Mart simply for their beliefs. The gay population is half understanding, half hypocritical.
Yes, I tend to roll my eyes at that crap too... Much like how everyone was bitching at Starbucks for not sending coffee over seas for our troops... While it was rather... rude? for them not to do so, Im sure Calvin Klein doesnt send them underwear, and does krispy kreme send them donuts?
I really dont think I want to be part of this convo, but im risking it because I want to clarify a few things.
1. BEING GAY IS A CHOICE?!?!?! Are you kidding me? It MAY be a choice on whether or not you ACT on your feelings, but those feelings aren't a choice. I adore women, I chose to be with a man. Doesnt change the fact that I am attracted to them.
2. I can appreciate the OP stating that hes tired of hearing about it, and people getting their panties in a wad all the damn time, because it is kind of frustrating (not just with gay rights, but with all the shit the media spews out...) BUT on the same hand, if its not constantly pushed in our faces, no one would be willing to stand up and make a change... so, I, personally, am glad for people who stand up for whatever they believe in, even if I dont always agree with whatever it is.
The media tends to make all of this so much worse... part of the reason I refuse to watch the news. Half the time, its bullcrap. Just what they want you to see...
3. Religion and all that... A LOT of people only take bits and pieces of the "good book" and take what they like to support their own needs... leaving out other things that do not suit them. Convieniant.
4. Id much rather see two gay who are deeply in love getting the benefits of marriage, than to see some of these straight folks who marry, only to end in divorce and terrible alimony/child support hearings, etc. It really is ridiculous. Those are the folks that 'ruin the sanctity of marriage"
And while we are on that subject, what about people who marry that aren't christian? Perhaps agnostic, athiest, or satanists... Are they wrong too? because they certainly arent marrying under god, either.
5. Some of the arguments I see reguarding this matter are really irrellevant... How does it effect you? Seriously. If two people love one another, how in the hell does that even effect you in the slightest? Because you don't believe in it? Because it makes your skin crawl? what?? I would really like to know. If its because you say God is against it, how does that effect you? Are you God? If its because it makes you ill, look away! I can honestly not think of ONE single reason it would naturally effect anyone.
6. and probably the most important point i would like to make here. What this boils down to is love. Something we need more than ever. LOVE. Stop with all the damn hate and b.s. that comes with judging our people, and learn love. "Love is all you need"
Seriously, if all the religious people would remember that one little blip in that book they rely on so heavily... "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR" I dont care if the 'neighbor' is a 'sinner' either, it isnt our place to judge them, it is God's. A Lot of people forget that, when they start preaching.
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Not the issue gothiclovemonkey. The question was posed why would anyone not support this. I answered that God has already defined marriage, take it up with God if you disagree. I guess you missed my answer on FREE WILL and everyone has their own life to live for themselves. I have my beliefs, you and others have theirs. No big deal. If they want to live their life the way they want to live it, none of my business. Go to it if they wish, I don't care.
But asking me to lend support and approval when I believe it is wrong is a different issue. In addition, the legal ramifications of making gay rights a civil right can have significant impact on the practice of my religion since most US Christian churches are state corporations required to adhere to all the laws of each state. If gay rights is a civil right, then discrimination cases for pastors refusing to perform gay marriages would happen. So, I oppose the gay marriage on that level as well. That is the arguments at hands.
On a personal level, all adults get to answer for their own actions and what someone else chooses to do is none of my business.
This is why we can't get anywhere in this country. Not. Everyone. Believes. In. God.
I believe there is too much for us too know. There is something out there, but I'm not labeling it as "God". Maybe it's the Roman/Greek GODS.
WHICH RELIGION IS TRUTH?
They all have BOOKS.
They all have PROMISES.
They all have LEADERS.
They all have DECEPTION.
They all have HISTORY.
They all have LIES.
We can't base all our beliefs on lies.
Enough said.
No one knows for sure. and many religions are the exact same thing, same story, names changed... I believe in my God. (no ones business really, just pointing out that I do have a religion...) But I also have faith that my God wouldnt condemn me for my beliefs. My God is my only judge. and when that time comes, i have faith that my god would rather see a gay couple loving, than a bunch of radical nutjobs judging...
And I would love for someone to point out what exactly does GOD say about gay marriage?
(and also show me where they follow every single other 'law' of that same God... )
Or does Toys R Us send them Action Figures? :rofl;
It's also funny, because the Bible condemns EATING SHRIMP8 TIMES
Where as it condemns homosexuality twice.
Christians eat shrimp.
See the logic of the Bible?
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
-
Now, let's take it a step further. If you define gay rights as a civil right and no discrimination against that civil right, then yes, churches that refuse to marry gay couples could be prosecuted or sued for exercising their beliefs. That is the real opposition against redefining marriage. Since most American Christian churches are incorporated in their state, yes, all laws against discrimination if it included gay marriage could force pastors in churches to perform gay marriage against the teaching of the Bible.
That's just silly. The Catholic church doesn't allow for divorce. Where are all the lawsuits demanding that the church permit it? Oh, right. There aren't any. Jews don't eat shellfish. Where are the lawsuits demanding that they serve it at bar mitzvah receptions? Oh, right. None of those either. Muslims don't eat pork. Again, lawsuits? Nope. What happens within the church is the business of the church.
I live in Massachusetts where gay marriage has been the law of the land for about nine years and your spooky "gheys are gonna make you get gay married and consummate it on the altar" stories just aren't true. Specifically, there haven't been any lawsuits trying to "force pastors in churches to perform gay marriages," as you fear, and they've had plenty of time. There have, been, however, plenty of pastors who have welcomed gay marriage, and been perfectly happy to perform gay weddings. If they're okay with it, why aren't you?
-
Now, let's take it a step further. If you define gay rights as a civil right and no discrimination against that civil right, then yes, churches that refuse to marry gay couples could be prosecuted or sued for exercising their beliefs. That is the real opposition against redefining marriage. Since most American Christian churches are incorporated in their state, yes, all laws against discrimination if it included gay marriage could force pastors in churches to perform gay marriage against the teaching of the Bible.
That's just silly. The Catholic church doesn't allow for divorce. Where are all the lawsuits demanding that the church permit it? Oh, right. There aren't any. Jews don't eat shellfish. Where are the lawsuits demanding that they serve it at bar mitzvah receptions? Oh, right. None of those either. Muslims don't eat pork. Again, lawsuits? Nope. What happens within the church is the business of the church.
I live in Massachusetts where gay marriage has been the law of the land for about nine years and your spooky "gheys are gonna make you get gay married and consummate it on the altar" stories just aren't true. Specifically, there haven't been any lawsuits trying to "force pastors in churches to perform gay marriages," as you fear, and they've had plenty of time. There have, been, however, plenty of pastors who have welcomed gay marriage, and been perfectly happy to perform gay weddings. If they're okay with it, why aren't you?
Actually, it is not silly at all and in addition, you have not quoted the Catholic viewpoint on the issue accurately either. Lastly, churches have already been sued for this issue and lost tax exempt status because of it.
The Unintended Consequences of Gay Marriage
Just last year, two women filed a complaint in New Jersey because they were denied use of a pavilion for their civil union ceremony. The pavilion was owned by a Methodist ministry. It had been rented out for marriages, but the ministry refused to rent it for civil unions because it is a religious structure, and civil unions are not recognized in the United Methodist Church Book of Discipline. Due to the ministry's refusal to rent it for the lesbian ceremony, New Jersey revoked its tax-free status. . .
It may seem that legal recognition of civil unions or gay marriages is a trivial matter and one that respects the basic dignity of gay people. The unintended legal consequences that flow from such recognition, however, present a serious threat to religious liberty. Courts and legislatures need to consider these consequences before committing the nation to a policy with so many potential pitfalls.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
So, your statement is unfortunately inaccurate on several fronts.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
Let's play a game, prove your religion without quoting your religion.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
Let's play a game, prove your religion without quoting your religion.
Sorry, my religion is not a game my friend. I became a Christian through the study of Bible prophecy. God has given all men the ability to reason, at least for those devoid of brain challenges. He has also given man His Holy Word that contains thousands of prophecies which could not be by chance alone. Josh McDowell a Christian evangelist working with college campuses, wrote a great book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict. He shows how the Bible could not be a false report.
http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-Demands-Questions-Challenging-Christians/dp/0785243631
One game I would advise you to consider as many have done before you, is to try and prove that the Bible is false on all of these issues. One who did that recently ended up writing a book called, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel.
A seasoned journalist chases down the biggest story in history--is there credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the son of god?
Retracing his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, cross-examines a dozen experts with doctorates from schools like Cambridge, Princeton, and Brandeis who are recognized authorities in their own fields. Strobel challenges them with questions like: How reliable is the New Testament? Does evidence for Jesus exist outside the Bible? Is there any reason to believe the resurrection was an actual event?
Strobel's tough, point-blank questions make this Gold Medallion-winning book read like a captivating, fast-paced novel. But it's not fiction. It's a riveting quest for the truth about history's most compelling figure. What will your verdict be in The Case for Christ?
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307
Here is one other example from one of the principle founders of Harvard Law School and the father of modern law methods of examining legal evidence in a trial.
http://www.amazon.com/treatise-law-evidence-Simon-Greenleaf/dp/1240151160
He applied the rules of legal evidence to the gospel accounts in the Bible and was converted to Christianity.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html
Many others have gone down that road only to find that the Bible DOES have the evidence to prove it is what is states it is. That is my story as well. So no thank you on your game, but I would challenge you to take up the game many before you have done only to come away understanding that the God of the Bible is real and His word is truth.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
Let's play a game, prove your religion without quoting your religion.
Sorry, my religion is not a game my friend. I became a Christian through the study of Bible prophecy. God has given all men the ability to reason, at least for those devoid of brain challenges. He has also given man His Holy Word that contains thousands of prophecies which could not be by chance alone. One author wrote a great book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
One game I would advise you to consider as many have done before you, is prove that the Bible is false on all of these issues. One who did that recently ended up writing a book called, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel.
A seasoned journalist chases down the biggest story in history--is there credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the son of god?
Retracing his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, cross-examines a dozen experts with doctorates from schools like Cambridge, Princeton, and Brandeis who are recognized authorities in their own fields. Strobel challenges them with questions like: How reliable is the New Testament? Does evidence for Jesus exist outside the Bible? Is there any reason to believe the resurrection was an actual event?
Strobel's tough, point-blank questions make this Gold Medallion-winning book read like a captivating, fast-paced novel. But it's not fiction. It's a riveting quest for the truth about history's most compelling figure. What will your verdict be in The Case for Christ?
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307
Here is one other example from one of the principle founders of Harvard Law School and the father of modern law methods of examining legal evidence in a trial.
http://www.amazon.com/treatise-law-evidence-Simon-Greenleaf/dp/1240151160
He applied the rules of legal evidence to the gospel accounts in the Bible and was converted to Christianity.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html
Many others have gone down that road only to find that the Bible DOES have the evidence to prove it is what is states it is. That is my story as well. So no thank you on your game, but I would challenge you to take up the game many before you have done only to come away understanding that the God of the Bible is real and His word is truth.
You can't prove something by quoting it. That's being biased.
You are extremely oblivious.
Evolution. Just saying.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
Let's play a game, prove your religion without quoting your religion.
Sorry, my religion is not a game my friend. I became a Christian through the study of Bible prophecy. God has given all men the ability to reason, at least for those devoid of brain challenges. He has also given man His Holy Word that contains thousands of prophecies which could not be by chance alone. One author wrote a great book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
One game I would advise you to consider as many have done before you, is prove that the Bible is false on all of these issues. One who did that recently ended up writing a book called, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel.
A seasoned journalist chases down the biggest story in history--is there credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the son of god?
Retracing his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, cross-examines a dozen experts with doctorates from schools like Cambridge, Princeton, and Brandeis who are recognized authorities in their own fields. Strobel challenges them with questions like: How reliable is the New Testament? Does evidence for Jesus exist outside the Bible? Is there any reason to believe the resurrection was an actual event?
Strobel's tough, point-blank questions make this Gold Medallion-winning book read like a captivating, fast-paced novel. But it's not fiction. It's a riveting quest for the truth about history's most compelling figure. What will your verdict be in The Case for Christ?
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307
Here is one other example from one of the principle founders of Harvard Law School and the father of modern law methods of examining legal evidence in a trial.
http://www.amazon.com/treatise-law-evidence-Simon-Greenleaf/dp/1240151160
He applied the rules of legal evidence to the gospel accounts in the Bible and was converted to Christianity.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html
Many others have gone down that road only to find that the Bible DOES have the evidence to prove it is what is states it is. That is my story as well. So no thank you on your game, but I would challenge you to take up the game many before you have done only to come away understanding that the God of the Bible is real and His word is truth.
You can't prove something by quoting it. That's being biased.
You are extremely oblivious.
Evolution. Just saying.
Ahhhh, evolution you say. Well really venturing off topic, but yes, I became a born again Christian in November of 1994. I graduated from medical a few years before that and got a degree in Biology with minors in math and chemistry prior to going to medical school. I have a very good understanding of evolution and science in general. After I came to my belief in Jesus Christ and the true literal nature of the Bible, I did indeed address the issue of evolution personally.
In short, I read 8 books on evolution or about evolution only one of which was from a Christian apologist disagreeing with evolution. The other 7 books were written by evolution apologists including the most important one by Stephen J. Gould. Not sure if you understand that at the graduate level. NO ONE preaches Darwinism. That is deader than a door nail EXCEPT in public schools of course where it is still taught. But at the graduate level, it has been it lacks evidence since the fossil record DOES NOT show slow, gradual changes in organisms into other organisms. The fossil record instead shows continuity of a species over its entire course from when it appears to when it goes extinct. So all of those phyletic trees of life as quite simply false and known to be false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Punctuated-equilibrium.svg
At the graduate level, they have a multitude of evolutionary theories tucked together by the title, NeoDarwinism. My sister got her PhD in Paleolimnology, which is the study of ancient lakes. She is quite noted in her accomplishments and has been interviewed on NPR and several prominent magazines. Yet, while she was in grad school taking graduate level courses on evolution, and while I was still in medical school, we were joking about the lack of evidence for any of the evolutionary theories. In fact, she made a joke that the only theory that has any evidence is creationism. Sadly, she doesn't remember the joking comment so many years ago, but since I became a born again Christian, my sisters sarcastic joke actually rings true.
In any case, after reading Stephen J. Gould lambaste his opponents, I applied his own standards of critique to his theory known as Punctuated Equilibrium and concluded his was just as lacking in real evidence as his competitors he stated were false and lacking evidence.
So, if you wish to argue evolution vs the Bible, start a new thread. That is one of my favorite topics to discuss.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
Let's play a game, prove your religion without quoting your religion.
Sorry, my religion is not a game my friend. I became a Christian through the study of Bible prophecy. God has given all men the ability to reason, at least for those devoid of brain challenges. He has also given man His Holy Word that contains thousands of prophecies which could not be by chance alone. One author wrote a great book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
One game I would advise you to consider as many have done before you, is prove that the Bible is false on all of these issues. One who did that recently ended up writing a book called, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel.
A seasoned journalist chases down the biggest story in history--is there credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the son of god?
Retracing his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, cross-examines a dozen experts with doctorates from schools like Cambridge, Princeton, and Brandeis who are recognized authorities in their own fields. Strobel challenges them with questions like: How reliable is the New Testament? Does evidence for Jesus exist outside the Bible? Is there any reason to believe the resurrection was an actual event?
Strobel's tough, point-blank questions make this Gold Medallion-winning book read like a captivating, fast-paced novel. But it's not fiction. It's a riveting quest for the truth about history's most compelling figure. What will your verdict be in The Case for Christ?
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307
Here is one other example from one of the principle founders of Harvard Law School and the father of modern law methods of examining legal evidence in a trial.
http://www.amazon.com/treatise-law-evidence-Simon-Greenleaf/dp/1240151160
He applied the rules of legal evidence to the gospel accounts in the Bible and was converted to Christianity.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html
Many others have gone down that road only to find that the Bible DOES have the evidence to prove it is what is states it is. That is my story as well. So no thank you on your game, but I would challenge you to take up the game many before you have done only to come away understanding that the God of the Bible is real and His word is truth.
You can't prove something by quoting it. That's being biased.
You are extremely oblivious.
Evolution. Just saying.
Ahhhh, evolution you say. Well really venturing off topic, but yes, I became a born again Christian in November of 1994. I graduated from medical a few years before that and got a degree in Biology, minos in math and chemistry prior to going to medical school. I have a very good understanding of evolution. After I came to my belief in Jesus Christ and the true literal nature of the Bible, I did indeed address the issue of evolution personally.
In short, I read 8 books on evolution or about evolution only one of which was from a Christian apologist. The other 7 books were written by evolution apologists including the most important one by Stephen J. Gould. Not sure if you understand that at the graduate level. NO ONE preaches Darwinism. That is deader than a door nail EXCEPT in public schools of course where it is still taught.
At the graduate level, they have a multitude of evolutionary theories tucked together by the title, NeoDarwinism. My sister got her PhD in Paleolimnology, which is the study of ancient lakes. She is quite noted in her accomplishments and has been interviewed on NPR and several prominent magazines. Yet, while she was in grad school taking graduate level courses on evolution, and while I was still in medical school, we were joking about the lack of evidence for any of the evolutionary theories. In fact, she made a joke that the only theory that has any evidence is creationism. Sadly, she doesn't remember the joking comment so many years ago, but since I became a born again Christian, my sisters sarcastic joke actually rings true.
In any case, after reading Stephen J. Gould lambaste his opponents, I applied his own standards of critique to his theory known as Punctuated Equilibrium and concluded his was just as lacking in real evidence as his competitors he stated were false and lacking evidence.
So, if you wish to argue evolution vs the Bible, start a new thread. That is one of my favorite topics to discuss.
No evidence to support EVOLUTION? Oh hell, you're one of THOSE Christians.
Darwinism is EVERYWHERE whether you Christians like it or not.
I'm not even going to bother trying to teach your tiny mind anymore. I don't want you to change your beliefs, I want you to stop spewing them. When you go "PM ME IF YOU WANT THE WORD OF GOD" horse shit, that's spewing, so don't bother attempting to counteract.
:banghead; Is there a block button?
-
Actually my friend, you are quoting from the Old Testament law about not eating shrimp and a lot of other "unclean" creatures. However, if you read the New Testament, you will see that Christians are not under the law of the OT. I would suggest you actually get a bit more educated on what the Bible and Christianity is all about. If you still want to criticize, go ahead, but make sure that your own arguments are logical.
This just seems beyond the realm of logic. The Bible is supposed to be the word of the Christian god. The Christian god is supposed to be all-knowing. Oops. God was mistaken when he wrote the OT, so he fixed it all up and got it right in the NT.
Despite this piece of inconsistency, why aren't Christians more concerned about following ALL the edicts from their god, instead of the ones that they decide to follow? I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Personally, I think most of the people posting here are nicer and more tolerant than the Christian god. That goes for their attitudes toward gays, other "tribes," and folks who are just different than they are.
:twocents;
Sorry, your comment shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. No inconsistency whatsoever. There was a purpose for the law, there is a purpose for the New Testament covenant as well. If you are interested in that discussion, send me a pm and I would be most happy to explain it detail, but no, not inconsistent whatsoever. The law still exists, Christians are under grace, not the law. This is what Jesus stated about the law during the Sermon on the Mount:
Matthew 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There are two different covenants, one of the Jews through the law, and one for the new dispensation for all that call upon the name of Jesus. The new covenant was prophesied by the prophet Jeremiah as well long before Jesus brought it to pass. It is all spelled out in the New Testament quite well. No inconsistencies whatsoever, just two different covenants with different people for a different purpose.
Your religion is flawed. Accept it.
No, not at all my friend. Here, from Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
That was 600 years before Jesus died on the cross and brought the new covenant to life.
In any case, the Bible does have the evidence to prove it is what is says it is, the Word of God. Yes, all knowing and all loving. If you don't wish to believe it, so be it.
Let's play a game, prove your religion without quoting your religion.
Sorry, my religion is not a game my friend. I became a Christian through the study of Bible prophecy. God has given all men the ability to reason, at least for those devoid of brain challenges. He has also given man His Holy Word that contains thousands of prophecies which could not be by chance alone. One author wrote a great book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict.
One game I would advise you to consider as many have done before you, is prove that the Bible is false on all of these issues. One who did that recently ended up writing a book called, The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel.
A seasoned journalist chases down the biggest story in history--is there credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the son of god?
Retracing his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune, cross-examines a dozen experts with doctorates from schools like Cambridge, Princeton, and Brandeis who are recognized authorities in their own fields. Strobel challenges them with questions like: How reliable is the New Testament? Does evidence for Jesus exist outside the Bible? Is there any reason to believe the resurrection was an actual event?
Strobel's tough, point-blank questions make this Gold Medallion-winning book read like a captivating, fast-paced novel. But it's not fiction. It's a riveting quest for the truth about history's most compelling figure. What will your verdict be in The Case for Christ?
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307
Here is one other example from one of the principle founders of Harvard Law School and the father of modern law methods of examining legal evidence in a trial.
http://www.amazon.com/treatise-law-evidence-Simon-Greenleaf/dp/1240151160
He applied the rules of legal evidence to the gospel accounts in the Bible and was converted to Christianity.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html
Many others have gone down that road only to find that the Bible DOES have the evidence to prove it is what is states it is. That is my story as well. So no thank you on your game, but I would challenge you to take up the game many before you have done only to come away understanding that the God of the Bible is real and His word is truth.
You can't prove something by quoting it. That's being biased.
You are extremely oblivious.
Evolution. Just saying.
Ahhhh, evolution you say. Well really venturing off topic, but yes, I became a born again Christian in November of 1994. I graduated from medical a few years before that and got a degree in Biology, minos in math and chemistry prior to going to medical school. I have a very good understanding of evolution. After I came to my belief in Jesus Christ and the true literal nature of the Bible, I did indeed address the issue of evolution personally.
In short, I read 8 books on evolution or about evolution only one of which was from a Christian apologist. The other 7 books were written by evolution apologists including the most important one by Stephen J. Gould. Not sure if you understand that at the graduate level. NO ONE preaches Darwinism. That is deader than a door nail EXCEPT in public schools of course where it is still taught.
At the graduate level, they have a multitude of evolutionary theories tucked together by the title, NeoDarwinism. My sister got her PhD in Paleolimnology, which is the study of ancient lakes. She is quite noted in her accomplishments and has been interviewed on NPR and several prominent magazines. Yet, while she was in grad school taking graduate level courses on evolution, and while I was still in medical school, we were joking about the lack of evidence for any of the evolutionary theories. In fact, she made a joke that the only theory that has any evidence is creationism. Sadly, she doesn't remember the joking comment so many years ago, but since I became a born again Christian, my sisters sarcastic joke actually rings true.
In any case, after reading Stephen J. Gould lambaste his opponents, I applied his own standards of critique to his theory known as Punctuated Equilibrium and concluded his was just as lacking in real evidence as his competitors he stated were false and lacking evidence.
So, if you wish to argue evolution vs the Bible, start a new thread. That is one of my favorite topics to discuss.
No evidence to support EVOLUTION? Oh hell, you're one of THOSE Christians.
Darwinism is EVERYWHERE whether you Christians like it or not.
I'm not even going to bother trying to teach your tiny mind anymore. I don't want you to change your beliefs, I want you to stop spewing them. When you go "PM ME IF YOU WANT THE WORD OF GOD" horse shit, that's spewing, so don't bother attempting to counteract.
:banghead; Is there a block button?
Nope, I am a medical doctor with B.S. in biology as noted above and I have spend years studying the issues of evolution before I became a Christian and actually more so since I became born again. If you are not interested in learning about the issues you are criticizing with out any understanding, then fair enough, not many folks take me up with that offer but some have and we have had very cordial discussions. Those that have ask questions, I give them answers. If they don't ask, I don't push it on them.
In any case, criticizing a religion you don't understand is not the way to go my friend.
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
Here are a couple of links to that end:
http://www.nolanchart.com/article8784-a-scientific-consensus-darwinism-is-dead.html
http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/library/battson/stasis/2.html
So, if you want to learn something about the so called science of evolution, open a new thread on it and I will quote the modern day NeoDarminist apologists and let you look at the evidence at hand. But Darwin's theory of Phyletic Gradualism died academically over 50 years ago my friend. That is just the way it truly is. Too bad public schools don't teach that "fact" about Darwin's theories.
But if you want to believe I am some sort of Neanderthal ignorant Christian who doesn't understand the theories of evolution. So be it. Ignore button, go for it my friend.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
You cannot 'prove' to me your god exists without using examples of writings. We prove things in this world with our five senses.
Sight. Sound. Touch. Taste. Hearing.
When I lick gods face and touch his beard, then I'll believe you.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
You cannot 'prove' to me your god exists without using examples of writings. We prove things in this world with our five senses.
Sight. Sound. Touch. Taste. Hearing.
When I lick gods face and touch his beard, then I'll believe you.
hmmm, that story was already told, Doubting Thomas is how he is known today. But in any case, I don't think God will let you lick His face and touch His beard, but He does promise all men will stand before Him. I wouldn't wait until that moment to be convinced, but to each his own.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
You cannot 'prove' to me your god exists without using examples of writings. We prove things in this world with our five senses.
Sight. Sound. Touch. Taste. Hearing.
When I lick gods face and touch his beard, then I'll believe you.
hmmm, that story was already told, Doubting Thomas is how he is known today. But in any case, I don't think God will let you lick His face and touch His beard, but He does promise all men will stand before Him. I wouldn't wait until that moment to be convinced, but to each his own.
Well, I won't stand before something that is not there.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
You cannot 'prove' to me your god exists without using examples of writings. We prove things in this world with our five senses.
Sight. Sound. Touch. Taste. Hearing.
When I lick gods face and touch his beard, then I'll believe you.
hmmm, that story was already told, Doubting Thomas is how he is known today. But in any case, I don't think God will let you lick His face and touch His beard, but He does promise all men will stand before Him. I wouldn't wait until that moment to be convinced, but to each his own.
Well, I won't stand before something that is not there.
Hmmmm, well all I can say is good luck my friend.
Take care,
EDITED- Fixed quote tag error- kitkatz, Moderator
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
You cannot 'prove' to me your god exists without using examples of writings. We prove things in this world with our five senses.
Sight. Sound. Touch. Taste. Hearing.
When I lick gods face and touch his beard, then I'll believe you.
hmmm, that story was already told, Doubting Thomas is how he is known today. But in any case, I don't think God will let you lick His face and touch His beard, but He does promise all men will stand before Him. I wouldn't wait until that moment to be convinced, but to each his own.
Well, I won't stand before something that is not there.
Hmmmm, well all I can say is good luck my friend.
Take care,
Good luck not believing? There is no luck in that. There is only joy.
Religion only brings conflict and hatred.
And religious wars.
Pray all you want, from my experience, it does jack shit. Why else are we suffering and sitting her griping on a site called iHateDialysis. What kind of loving father is that? Thanks, God. Explain your loving father.And don't spew the "Everyone has a purpose" horse shit.
-
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/the-unintended-consequences-of-gay-marriage/
Actually, the tax-free status of that organization remained (http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201210100001#claim4). If you're going to keep trying to make that argument, try basing it on something that actually happened, preferably in a state that has actually legalized gay marriage. Feel free to keep digging in the church newsletter scare column for more spooky stories, but you might want to google the rebuttals to those arguments to see how they come out.
I'll just leave things this way:
I have nine years of first-hand experience of what happens when gay marriage happens, which is nothing of note.
You have a bunch of "what if's," "could happens," "something kind of like that happened somewhere" assertions, urban legends, and religious tautologies.
Once again, you are not portraying the official Catholic Church position on this issue. Here is an interesting article going into the details that will be important when the Supreme Court rules in June of this year.
http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/gay-marriage-or-religious-freedom-you-cant-have-both/
Lastly, you essentially accused me of lying on the N.J. case cited in the article in the other post. Well, here is an actual news account from Huffington Post of all source detailing the accuracy of my statement.
NJ rules against church group in gay rights case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/30/nj-rules-against-church-g_n_154128.html
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
You cannot 'prove' to me your god exists without using examples of writings. We prove things in this world with our five senses.
Sight. Sound. Touch. Taste. Hearing.
When I lick gods face and touch his beard, then I'll believe you.
hmmm, that story was already told, Doubting Thomas is how he is known today. But in any case, I don't think God will let you lick His face and touch His beard, but He does promise all men will stand before Him. I wouldn't wait until that moment to be convinced, but to each his own.
Well, I won't stand before something that is not there.
Hmmmm, well all I can say is good luck my friend.
Take care,
Good luck not believing? There is no luck in that. There is only joy.
Religion only brings conflict and hatred.
And religious wars.
Pray all you want, from my experience, it does jack shit. Why else are we suffering and sitting her griping on a site called iHateDialysis. What kind of loving father is that? Thanks, God. Explain your loving father.And don't spew the "Everyone has a purpose" horse shit.
No thanks, if you wish to find Him, that is something you must do on your own. If you wish to know where to begin, send me a pm.
Take care,
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Yup.
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Not at all. NeoDarwinisim came into vogue about 50 years ago in response to the lack of evidence for Phyletic gradualism. That is current fact. I will take it one step further, not only do serious evolutionary biologist teach that classic Darwinism is dead, but many today contend that NeoDarwinism is dead as well. So, no, I have not misrepresented any scientific evidence.
If you don't trust me or my sources, go read Stephen J. Gould who has one of the leading NeoDarwinistic theory called Punctuated Equilibrium. Here is a quote of what he said at one point about classic Darwin evolutionary theory. The reason for Gould's treatise, the lack of evidence that Darwin said they would find if his theory was correct. In other words, the fossil record does not support Phyletic Gradualism, instead it shows stasis of species and no intermediate species that is predicted by Darwin's theory.
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/classictexts/eldredge.pdf
To quote Gould in his summation: "Speciation is a rare and difficult event that punctuates a system in homeostatic equilibrium."
In any case, go back and talk to your professor of evolution about all of the NeoDarwinistic theories and why the paleontology evidence found in the fossil record has lead modern evolutionists to almost uniformly abandon Phyletic gradualism. Once again, don't take my word for it, study it for yourself, but I have indeed summarized very briefly current graduate levels philosophy of Darwin's theory of evolution.
Here is a Yahoo answer to your question if you don't wish to forage through all of the evolutionary jargon in science articles.
The fossil record provide little evidence for phyletic gradualism. < Prev Next >
Posted By:
ssethiadi@...
Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:04 am |
Options
Stephen Jay Gould admitted that the fossil record do not provide evidence
for phyletic gradualism.
See below. That was in 1981. Is there any progress in 2012?
Regards. Stanley.
"The main problem with such phyletic gradualism is that the fossil record
provides so little evidence for it. Very rarely can we trace the gradual
transformation of one entire species into another through a finely graded
sequence of intermediary forms".
(Gould, S.J. ; luria ; SE and Singer ; S. in " A view of Life", 1981 p.
641).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OriginsTalk/message/27682
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Yup.
NOPE!
-
So, sorry, but you are wrong. It is not a trivial issue, there already are cases ruled against Christian churches on this issue and religious freedoms WILL be impinged by granting civil rights status to gay marriage. Sorry, but you are wrong on all accounts my friend.
I'm so sorry that you can't find anything to support your argument other than an irrelevant lawsuit. Let me spell it out in simple terms: “When you open your doors to the public, you can’t treat same-sex couples differently.”(http://www.aclu-nj.org/news/2012/01/13/judge-rules-in-favor-of-same-sex-couple-in-discrimination-case/) If you don't want to open your door to the public, you don't have to. Not so difficult to understand.
In the meanwhile, your failure (again!) to demonstrate any harm that has actually befallen Massachusetts just goes to show that your assertion is wrong. And if you're wrong about that one thing, what else might you be wrong about?
-
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
More to the point, as someone who professes to be a doctor, he should be seeing evolution in action every single day. Gee, why is that drug not working as well any more? If he can't extrapolate what's in front of his eyes out a couple of hundred million years of evolution he's not much of a researcher. But we already knew that from his description of his reading material.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
I think Hemodoc believes in the "bad computer programmer" kind of God--the kind who creates, badly, then throws a hissy fit when things don't work as expected.
-
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
More to the point, as someone who professors to be a doctor, he should be seeing evolution in action every single day. Gee, why is that drug not working as well any more? If he can't extrapolate what's in front of his eyes out a couple of hundred million years of evolution he's not much of a researcher. But we already knew that from his description of his reading material.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
I think Hemodoc believes in the "bad computer programmer" kind of God--the kinds who creates, badly, then throws a hissy fit when things don't work as expected.
:rofl; :clap; :2thumbsup;
Exactly!
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Yup.
NOPE!
If I had the choice to be seen by you or a monkey with medical training, I'd pick a rock.
Edited: Excessive font size removed. jbeany, Moderator
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Yup.
NOPE!
If I had the choice to be seen by you or a monkey with medical training, I'd pick a rock.
Actually, I was a very popular and sought after doctor. In any case, perhaps you should read the thread title stating in no personal attacks. Off to the moderator again. If you wish to discuss topics, no problem my friend. I am not interested in your personal views of me or my philosophy of life. Keep to the issues. I am not the issue.
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Yup.
NOPE!
If I had the choice to be seen by you or a monkey with medical training, I'd pick a rock.
Actually, I was a very popular and sought after doctor. In any case, perhaps you should read the thread title stating in no personal attacks. Off to the moderator again. If you wish to discuss topics, no problem my friend. I am not interested in your personal views of me or my philosophy of life. Keep to the issues. I am not the issue.
Again, not a personal attack, simply a statement about your thick headedness. I can choose not to be seen by a certain doctor, can I not?
You go to the moderators quite a bit, do you not?
You do understand you're a grown man tattle tailing on a sixteen year old boy, correct?
-
iKAZ3D, we already discussed this privately. If you can't figure out that your last post is over the line, then you need to get off the political boards. Leeway is not the same as a free-for-all.
For all of you - NONE of the moderators are in a good mood, having just lost one of our members. We'd all be more than happy to lock ALL of these down and let you go squabble somewhere else. Cease, desist, and get over the fact that you can't change someone's mind by posting in an online forum.
jbeany, Moderator
-
I'm sorry, being gay IS a choice. It's not a DIRECT choice, but you are not born gay.
Tell me your experiences or opinions on the matter!
How do you know this? Are you a neuroscientist? There are many people who would really like to have your insight!
Did you make a conscious choice to be heterosexual (assuming that you ARE)? If so, what influenced your choice? How old were you when you made this choice? Or, have you perhaps not made a choice yet? Are you close to making a choice?
How about your friends and acquaintances who are homosexual? What have they told you about the process of choosing their sexual orientation? Are they happy with their choice? Are their friends and family happy with their choice?
And why are you sorry?
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Not at all. NeoDarwinisim came into vogue about 50 years ago in response to the lack of evidence for Phyletic gradualism. That is current fact. I will take it one step further, not only do serious evolutionary biologist teach that classic Darwinism is dead, but many today contend that NeoDarwinism is dead as well. So, no, I have not misrepresented any scientific evidence.
If you don't trust me or my sources, go read Stephen J. Gould who has one of the leading NeoDarwinistic theory called Punctuated Equilibrium. Here is a quote of what he said at one point about classic Darwin evolutionary theory. The reason for Gould's treatise, the lack of evidence that Darwin said they would find if his theory was correct. In other words, the fossil record does not support Phyletic Gradualism, instead it shows stasis of species and no intermediate species that is predicted by Darwin's theory.
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/classictexts/eldredge.pdf
To quote Gould in his summation: "Speciation is a rare and difficult event that punctuates a system in homeostatic equilibrium."
In any case, go back and talk to your professor of evolution about all of the NeoDarwinistic theories and why the paleontology evidence found in the fossil record has lead modern evolutionists to almost uniformly abandon Phyletic gradualism. Once again, don't take my word for it, study it for yourself, but I have indeed summarized very briefly current graduate levels philosophy of Darwin's theory of evolution.
Here is a Yahoo answer to your question if you don't wish to forage through all of the evolutionary jargon in science articles.
The fossil record provide little evidence for phyletic gradualism. < Prev Next >
Posted By:
ssethiadi@...
Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:04 am |
Options
Stephen Jay Gould admitted that the fossil record do not provide evidence
for phyletic gradualism.
See below. That was in 1981. Is there any progress in 2012?
Regards. Stanley.
"The main problem with such phyletic gradualism is that the fossil record
provides so little evidence for it. Very rarely can we trace the gradual
transformation of one entire species into another through a finely graded
sequence of intermediary forms".
(Gould, S.J. ; luria ; SE and Singer ; S. in " A view of Life", 1981 p.
641).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OriginsTalk/message/27682
This is still a red herring. And I read Gould's book.
You are trying to equate the "evolution" of evolutionary theory as proof that the validity of the overarching principles are false.
RED HERRING!
-
I'm sorry, being gay IS a choice. It's not a DIRECT choice, but you are not born gay.
Tell me your experiences or opinions on the matter!
How do you know this? Are you a neuroscientist? There are many people who would really like to have your insight!
Did you make a conscious choice to be heterosexual (assuming that you ARE)? If so, what influenced your choice? How old were you when you made this choice? Or, have you perhaps not made a choice yet? Are you close to making a choice?
How about your friends and acquaintances who are homosexual? What have they told you about the process of choosing their sexual orientation? Are they happy with their choice? Are their friends and family happy with their choice?
And why are you sorry?
Babies don't choose to suck peepee or lick down there. It's not a direct choice. You don't just wake up one day and "be gay", but over time you conciously become more and more attracted to the same sex...From my friend Bree, who is gay.
-
Could you please explain what you mean by "direct choice"? I've never heard that term.
And, could you explain your baby analogy?
Thanks.
-
Babies don't choose to suck peepee or lick down there. It's not a direct choice. You don't just wake up one day and "be gay", but over time you conciously become more and more attracted to the same sex...From my friend Bree, who is gay.
I think as a teenager it makes sense that you'd think romantic attraction begins and ends with the mechanics of sex but as an adult you will realize that who you want to grow old with, who you want to share a life with, is far far more than how you interact physically. However, that insight doesn't always happen as evidenced by the focus on the mechanics of sex by adult opponents of same sex marriage.
I think as you age you'll also come to see the inadequacy of understanding the world based on an n=1. Bree's experience is not universal and even her own views are unlikely to last into adulthood.
-
Actually, Darwinism is dead at the graduate level exactly as I detailed above. Go learn about Neodarwinism and why NO ONE at the graduate level teaches Darwinism any longer, or let me state, shouldn't teach it since the fossil record disproves Darwins theory of Phyletic Gradualism. In any case, up to you. If you don't wish to learn what is taught at the graduate level so be it. But that is definitely putting your head in the sand and not seeking the truth my friend.
:rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
I'm surprised you couldn't hear my snort all the way in California. Once again you are trying to distort the science. I just returned from dinner with an award winning evolutionary biologist, who would take serious issue with your misrepresentation of the importance of evolution by reframing the terms. Shame on you. You are either deliberately trying to mislead (some would call that lying), or truly befuddled.
Either way, neither stance really relates to the issue of gay marriage at hand.
Another question: If the Christian god is so against homosexuality, why did he create so many species that engage in it? Just seems kind of sloppy of such a powerful god.
Not at all. NeoDarwinisim came into vogue about 50 years ago in response to the lack of evidence for Phyletic gradualism. That is current fact. I will take it one step further, not only do serious evolutionary biologist teach that classic Darwinism is dead, but many today contend that NeoDarwinism is dead as well. So, no, I have not misrepresented any scientific evidence.
If you don't trust me or my sources, go read Stephen J. Gould who has one of the leading NeoDarwinistic theory called Punctuated Equilibrium. Here is a quote of what he said at one point about classic Darwin evolutionary theory. The reason for Gould's treatise, the lack of evidence that Darwin said they would find if his theory was correct. In other words, the fossil record does not support Phyletic Gradualism, instead it shows stasis of species and no intermediate species that is predicted by Darwin's theory.
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/classictexts/eldredge.pdf
To quote Gould in his summation: "Speciation is a rare and difficult event that punctuates a system in homeostatic equilibrium."
In any case, go back and talk to your professor of evolution about all of the NeoDarwinistic theories and why the paleontology evidence found in the fossil record has lead modern evolutionists to almost uniformly abandon Phyletic gradualism. Once again, don't take my word for it, study it for yourself, but I have indeed summarized very briefly current graduate levels philosophy of Darwin's theory of evolution.
Here is a Yahoo answer to your question if you don't wish to forage through all of the evolutionary jargon in science articles.
The fossil record provide little evidence for phyletic gradualism. < Prev Next >
Posted By:
ssethiadi@...
Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:04 am |
Options
Stephen Jay Gould admitted that the fossil record do not provide evidence
for phyletic gradualism.
See below. That was in 1981. Is there any progress in 2012?
Regards. Stanley.
"The main problem with such phyletic gradualism is that the fossil record
provides so little evidence for it. Very rarely can we trace the gradual
transformation of one entire species into another through a finely graded
sequence of intermediary forms".
(Gould, S.J. ; luria ; SE and Singer ; S. in " A view of Life", 1981 p.
641).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OriginsTalk/message/27682
This is still a red herring. And I read Gould's book.
You are trying to equate the "evolution" of evolutionary theory as proof that the validity of the overarching principles are false.
RED HERRING!
Not at all. Darwin stated that IF his theory was true, then subsequent generations would find innumerable intermediate forms in a "tree of life."
Since you have read Gould's book, not sure which one, he wrote quite a few, then you understand that the origin of Punctuated Equilibrium was in part to explain the lack of transitional fossils in the fossil "record." No red herring at all, plain and simple facts.
It is interesting the Darwin already knew that there was a lack of fossils lending evidence to his theory at the time he published his landmark book:
But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? It will be more convenient to discuss this question in the chapter on the imperfection of the geological record; and I will here only state that I believe the answer mainly lies in the record being incomparably less perfect than is generally supposed. The crust of the earth is a vast museum; but the natural collections have been imperfectly made, and only at long intervals of time.
Science is still looking for Charlie's transitional forms but sadly, they don't exist. Thus one of the reasons for "NeoDarwinism" coming on the scene in a grand unification set of theories such as Gould's Punctuated Equilibrium. That is simply the cold, hard facts, Darwin still lacks the evidence he predicted his theory would produce in the fossil record. Just the way it is.
-
I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
-
Political Debates - Thick Skin Required for Entry :police:
-
Could you please explain what you mean by "direct choice"? I've never heard that term.
And, could you explain your baby analogy?
Thanks.
Of course. Direct meaning "Today, I think I'll be gay."
One of the most common things I hear about "being gay" is that it is genetic. However, I truly am against that statement because genetics define what you are, not exactly who you are. Who you are is defined by your nervous system, cells, and things, which the genes CODE. The genes are responsible for creating the cells that than create YOU, but not directly at fault.
Or at least that's how I feel. I could be wrong. We all could be wrong. The essential question of life is what is life, is it not?
Life = Not Life
Not Life = Life
Life is a paradigm that we can't explain, so we should stop trying to and get along. :)
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
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Babies don't choose to suck peepee or lick down there. It's not a direct choice. You don't just wake up one day and "be gay", but over time you conciously become more and more attracted to the same sex...From my friend Bree, who is gay.
I think as a teenager it makes sense that you'd think romantic attraction begins and ends with the mechanics of sex but as an adult you will realize that who you want to grow old with, who you want to share a life with, is far far more than how you interact physically. However, that insight doesn't always happen as evidenced by the focus on the mechanics of sex by adult opponents of same sex marriage.
I think as you age you'll also come to see the inadequacy of understanding the world based on an n=1. Bree's experience is not universal and even her own views are unlikely to last into adulthood.
I do understand, to a non-experience degree, that notion.
So, if being gay was genetic.
Would being straight be genetic?
(Some gays insist that straight isn't a gene, but gay is...I don't understand that logic, but those are the radicals.)
What about being Bisexual?
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
Hmmm, in other words, you are rude because of me???
Well, shucks, I don't accept that responsibility, I will let you be responsible for your own actions and your own comments and you alone my friend.
In any case, don't move to anywhere in the Bible belt or outside of the urban areas because folks like me that understand the concept of a love of God and our country are in much greater numbers than folks that don't understand that.
But in any case, I would highly recommend getting a different attitude about your rude comments, they ain't my fault at all my friend. I have treated you with respect and will continue to do so, but if you don't want to, so be it, I do have thick skin as Rerun noted already and that is a sign of your character not mine.
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
Hmmm, in other words, you are rude because of me???
Well, shucks, I don't accept that responsibility, I will let you be responsible for your own actions and your own comments and you alone my friend.
In any case, don't move to anywhere in the Bible belt or outside of the urban areas because folks like me that understand the concept of a love of God and our country are in much greater numbers than folks that don't understand that.
But in any case, I would highly recommend getting a different attitude about your rude comments, they ain't my fault at all my friend. I have treated you with respect and will continue to do so, but if you don't want to, so be it, I do have thick skin as Rerun noted already and that is a sign of your character not mine.
*Says he has a concept of love and God*
*Says gays are bad and against the word of God*
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
Hmmm, in other words, you are rude because of me???
Well, shucks, I don't accept that responsibility, I will let you be responsible for your own actions and your own comments and you alone my friend.
In any case, don't move to anywhere in the Bible belt or outside of the urban areas because folks like me that understand the concept of a love of God and our country are in much greater numbers than folks that don't understand that.
But in any case, I would highly recommend getting a different attitude about your rude comments, they ain't my fault at all my friend. I have treated you with respect and will continue to do so, but if you don't want to, so be it, I do have thick skin as Rerun noted already and that is a sign of your character not mine.
*Says he has a concept of love and God*
*Says gays are bad and against the word of God*
Actually, I don't remember hiring you as my spokesperson. I can readily speak for myself thank you.
Once again, you have not spoken correctly. It matters little at all what I say or think, only what the Bible and God speaks. What God says is that all men are sinners in need of a Saviour and that He will save all and forgive all sins for those that call upon the name of Jesus in faith believing. We all have a multitude of sins to answer for, each and every one of us. So we all must stand before God and give account of everything we have done in our bodies, whether good or bad.
If you are going to try and reflect what God states, get it right my friend.
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So, if being gay was genetic.
Would being straight be genetic?
(Some gays insist that straight isn't a gene, but gay is...I don't understand that logic, but those are the radicals.)
What about being Bisexual?
iKAZ3D, I am not sure you will understand the following analogy, but I'm going to give it a try.
I have a son who is just a few years older than you, and he is autistic. High functioning, but autistic nonetheless. Now, autism is a spectrum disorder, meaning that there are all kinds of ways that autism can express itself. No one knows what causes autism, but it is recognizable and definable. It is also forever.
It has often occurred to me in the past that the determination and expression of one's sexual orientation and/or preferences might follow the same course.
Before anyone jumps all over my hat, I recognize that in most, but not all, cases, autism is a disability whereas homosexuality is not.
Don't allow your thinking to be waylaid by the term "genetic".
There are probably many factors working in concert that add up to autism, and I reckon the same may very well be true about one's sexual orientation whether it be hetero or homosexual.
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I don't think it's in a baby's realm of thinking to have a desire to lick or suck a peepee, as has been so eloquently stated earlier in this forum. I don't even see how that is a valid argument.
Babies are more concerned with food, sleep, being held and safe.
Personally, I think this whole thread is beyond stupid. While there may be some gay people who "chose" to be gay (per their own statements) I do not believe that is the truth for all. It just is what it is. Get over it.
This thread was started to incite anger and arguments, IMHO
KarenInWA
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So, if being gay was genetic.
Would being straight be genetic?
(Some gays insist that straight isn't a gene, but gay is...I don't understand that logic, but those are the radicals.)
What about being Bisexual?
Sexuality is deeply ingrained in ancient parts of the brain. To believe being either gay or straight is a conscious choice one must believe that the conscious part of the brain, the neocortex, is the seat of sex.
Hint: it isn't.
There's some interesting research going on with the hypothalamus:
According to D. F. Swaab, writing in a July 2008 paper, "Neurobiological research related to sexual orientation in humans is only just gathering momentum, but the evidence already shows that humans have a vast array of brain differences, not only in relation to gender, but also in relation to sexual orientation."[19]
Swaab first reported on the relationship between sexual orientation in males and the hypothalamus's "clock", the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN). In 1990, Swaab and Hofman[20] reported that the suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men was significantly larger than in heterosexual men. Then in 1995, Swaab et al.[21] linked brain development to sexual orientation by treating male rats both pre- and postnatally with ATD, an aromatase blocker in the brain. This produced an enlarged SCN and bisexual behavior in the adult male rats. In 1991, LeVay showed that part of the sexually dimorphic nucleus (SDN) known as the 3rd interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH 3), is nearly twice as large in heterosexual men than in homosexual men and heterosexual women, in terms of volume.
In 2004 and 2006, two studies by Berglund, Lindström, and Savic[22][23] used Positron Emission Tomography (PET) to observe how the hypothalamus responds to smelling common odors, the scent of testosterone found in male sweat, and the scent of estrogen found in female urine. These studies showed that the hypothalamus of heterosexual men and homosexual women both respond to estrogen. Also, the hypothalamus of homosexual men and heterosexual women both respond to testosterone. The hypothalamus of all four groups did not respond to the common odors, which produced a normal olfactory response in the brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus#Human_sexual_orientation_and_the_hypothalamus
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So, if being gay was genetic.
Would being straight be genetic?
(Some gays insist that straight isn't a gene, but gay is...I don't understand that logic, but those are the radicals.)
What about being Bisexual?
iKAZ3D, I am not sure you will understand the following analogy, but I'm going to give it a try.
I have a son who is just a few years older than you, and he is autistic. High functioning, but autistic nonetheless. Now, autism is a spectrum disorder, meaning that there are all kinds of ways that autism can express itself. No one knows what causes autism, but it is recognizable and definable. It is also forever.
It has often occurred to me in the past that the determination and expression of one's sexual orientation and/or preferences might follow the same course.
Before anyone jumps all over my hat, I recognize that in most, but not all, cases, autism is a disability whereas homosexuality is not.
Don't allow your thinking to be waylaid by the term "genetic".
There are probably many factors working in concert that add up to autism, and I reckon the same may very well be true about one's sexual orientation whether it be hetero or homosexual.
That makes sense. I didn't think of it that way. Are you thinking maybe just the way things...happen?
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I don't think it's in a baby's realm of thinking to have a desire to lick or suck a peepee, as has been so eloquently stated earlier in this forum. I don't even see how that is a valid argument.
Babies are more concerned with food, sleep, being held and safe.
Personally, I think this whole thread is beyond stupid. While there may be some gay people who "chose" to be gay (per their own statements) I do not believe that is the truth for all. It just is what it is. Get over it.
This thread was started to incite anger and arguments, IMHO
KarenInWA
No, it was created to get honest opinions from the members...hence being in the Political debates section. :thumbup;
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
Hmmm, in other words, you are rude because of me???
Well, shucks, I don't accept that responsibility, I will let you be responsible for your own actions and your own comments and you alone my friend.
In any case, don't move to anywhere in the Bible belt or outside of the urban areas because folks like me that understand the concept of a love of God and our country are in much greater numbers than folks that don't understand that.
But in any case, I would highly recommend getting a different attitude about your rude comments, they ain't my fault at all my friend. I have treated you with respect and will continue to do so, but if you don't want to, so be it, I do have thick skin as Rerun noted already and that is a sign of your character not mine.
*Says he has a concept of love and God*
*Says gays are bad and against the word of God*
Actually, I don't remember hiring you as my spokesperson. I can readily speak for myself thank you.
Once again, you have not spoken correctly. It matters little at all what I say or think, only what the Bible and God speaks. What God says is that all men are sinners in need of a Saviour and that He will save all and forgive all sins for those that call upon the name of Jesus in faith believing. We all have a multitude of sins to answer for, each and every one of us. So we all must stand before God and give account of everything we have done in our bodies, whether good or bad.
If you are going to try and reflect what God states, get it right my friend.
Ok, Hemodoc, that's wonderful. You do that. I, however, will not. And you and all your other Christian fellows can't force me or inquire me to. If I want to become Christian (which I don't), then I'll do so myself.
How about you go to Church and I'll learn my Science. Ok? We'll agree to disagree. Neither of us needs to end up getting banned.
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
Hmmm, in other words, you are rude because of me???
Well, shucks, I don't accept that responsibility, I will let you be responsible for your own actions and your own comments and you alone my friend.
In any case, don't move to anywhere in the Bible belt or outside of the urban areas because folks like me that understand the concept of a love of God and our country are in much greater numbers than folks that don't understand that.
But in any case, I would highly recommend getting a different attitude about your rude comments, they ain't my fault at all my friend. I have treated you with respect and will continue to do so, but if you don't want to, so be it, I do have thick skin as Rerun noted already and that is a sign of your character not mine.
*Says he has a concept of love and God*
*Says gays are bad and against the word of God*
Actually, I don't remember hiring you as my spokesperson. I can readily speak for myself thank you.
Once again, you have not spoken correctly. It matters little at all what I say or think, only what the Bible and God speaks. What God says is that all men are sinners in need of a Saviour and that He will save all and forgive all sins for those that call upon the name of Jesus in faith believing. We all have a multitude of sins to answer for, each and every one of us. So we all must stand before God and give account of everything we have done in our bodies, whether good or bad.
If you are going to try and reflect what God states, get it right my friend.
Ok, Hemodoc, that's wonderful. You do that. I, however, will not. And you and all your other Christian fellows can't force me or inquire me to. If I want to become Christian (which I don't), then I'll do so myself.
How about you go to Church and I'll learn my Science. Ok? We'll agree to disagree. Neither of us needs to end up getting banned.
Too funny, who is forcing you about anything my friend. That is not the way Christianity works.
In any case, take care.
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I cant believe what I have been reading, who cares if your straight or gay what does someones sexual orientation have to do with Ihatedialysis, what people do with their lives is their business, and I think your comments are rude iKAZ3D.
They're only rude because Hemodoc is influencing me. Religious pressers like him are the bane of my existence, and I don'g take them lightly. I apologize if you think I'm rude, I try not to be. I find overbearing gays and religious folks rather rude when they do their thing, so it's a double edged sword. When does the offender become the offended and vice versa. I feel as if sometimes people justify the offense that religious/gay folk may impede on me, but if I slip a slight insult, it will never be justified.
When does it switch sides, or end period?
Hmmm, in other words, you are rude because of me???
Well, shucks, I don't accept that responsibility, I will let you be responsible for your own actions and your own comments and you alone my friend.
In any case, don't move to anywhere in the Bible belt or outside of the urban areas because folks like me that understand the concept of a love of God and our country are in much greater numbers than folks that don't understand that.
But in any case, I would highly recommend getting a different attitude about your rude comments, they ain't my fault at all my friend. I have treated you with respect and will continue to do so, but if you don't want to, so be it, I do have thick skin as Rerun noted already and that is a sign of your character not mine.
*Says he has a concept of love and God*
*Says gays are bad and against the word of God*
Actually, I don't remember hiring you as my spokesperson. I can readily speak for myself thank you.
Once again, you have not spoken correctly. It matters little at all what I say or think, only what the Bible and God speaks. What God says is that all men are sinners in need of a Saviour and that He will save all and forgive all sins for those that call upon the name of Jesus in faith believing. We all have a multitude of sins to answer for, each and every one of us. So we all must stand before God and give account of everything we have done in our bodies, whether good or bad.
If you are going to try and reflect what God states, get it right my friend.
Ok, Hemodoc, that's wonderful. You do that. I, however, will not. And you and all your other Christian fellows can't force me or inquire me to. If I want to become Christian (which I don't), then I'll do so myself.
How about you go to Church and I'll learn my Science. Ok? We'll agree to disagree. Neither of us needs to end up getting banned.
Too funny, who is forcing you about anything my friend. That is not the way Christianity works.
In any case, take care.
Haha, whatever.
Tschüß.
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IKAZ3D, there are explanations for autism, homosexuality and even fsgs. We just do not yet know what they are. Such things do not just "happen".
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IKAZ3D, there are explanations for autism, homosexuality and even fsgs. We just do not yet know what they are. Such things do not just "happen".
True!
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
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"Who’s to say what’s proper? What if it were agreed that “proper” meant wearing a codfish on your head? Would you wear it?"
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
Ahhhh, bullied because I don't believe the same as you??? Sorry, I could care less what other folks do. None of my business, do as you wish, but yes, there will be a time where we do give account. If folks want to ignore that sound advice, so be it.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
I already spoke about the legal ramifications and the interaction with religious freedom. It is such an important issue that the Supreme Court is dealing with it right now. There is much at stake in this seemingly "simple" issue.
Here is a transcript of the second day of testimony in the recent SCOTUS hearing on DOMA. It has far reaching implications. We will have to wait and see how the court decides. So you wonder why people oppose gay marriage, the legal implications carry much weight, it is much more than just what people do in the privacy of their own homes and it took up a good bit of time at SCOTUS as the transcript shows.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324000704578386632445274570.html
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
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Id have to agree that most issues of discussion, such as gay rights, are over exposed (and usually put out in a negative way) in our society. just something to keep the herd busy, if you ask me.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
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Hemodoc is quite correct; the recognition of "gay rights", which I guess is code for the legalization of same sex marriage, DOES have huge implications. If you've ever filled out a tax form, you'd know this. If you've ever tried to get insurance for your spouse, you'd know this. If you've ever tried to settle an estate, you'd know this.
You don't have to have any sort of religious faith to understand that the legalization of same sex marriage is a big deal. If anyone is bothered by the "in your face" messaging that some people use, well, I'm not sure same sex marriage advocates really care. I'm old enough to remember the civil rights movement, so I have to laugh at the notion that gay rights advocates are over the top.
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Oh man..I don't know what to do with myself this evening. My husband is teaching, and I'm spending way too much time on IHD just blathering. It's either this or doing laundry. I think I might actually rather talk about gay rights than do laundry. ::)
I need to get a life...at least for this evening.
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Hemodoc is quite correct; the recognition of "gay rights", which I guess is code for the legalization of same sex marriage, DOES have huge implications. If you've ever filled out a tax form, you'd know this. If you've ever tried to get insurance for your spouse, you'd know this. If you've ever tried to settle an estate, you'd know this.
You don't have to have any sort of religious faith to understand that the legalization of same sex marriage is a big deal. If anyone is bothered by the "in your face" messaging that some people use, well, I'm not sure same sex marriage advocates really care. I'm old enough to remember the civil rights movement, so I have to laugh at the notion that gay rights advocates are over the top.
Well, we will see what SCOTUS has to say in about a month on this issue. Gay rights collides with established religious liberties, not because Christians want to interfere with decisions people make for themselves and their lifestyles, but just the opposite. That the gay rights issue does not become a so "called" civil right where Christians can be prosecuted with fines or jail for simply exercising our beliefs in the Bible and our Holy God. And yes, that is a real concern as discussed by the SCOTUS judges during testimony on these issues.
As Moosemom stated, yes, this is a bid deal, big enough for SCOTUS to take a look at and render a judgement likely 5-4 either way it goes.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
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Oh man..I don't know what to do with myself this evening. My husband is teaching, and I'm spending way too much time on IHD just blathering. It's either this or doing laundry. I think I might actually rather talk about gay rights than do laundry. ::)
I need to get a life...at least for this evening.
Laundry Shmaundry! XD
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this IS better than laundry.
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The 'tone' of this 'discussion' is disturbing and not friendly. Just my opinion. :twocents;
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Anyone is free to post on any thread. We don't own it here. Just keep it from being personal attacks and no name calling. If you do you could be banned for 30 days or more.
Rerun, Moderator :police:
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How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
Kiddo, stop banging your head against the wall. For a not-inconsiderable portion of America (ie conservative Christians), a discussion of gay rights IS a discussion about religion. Hemodoc is very devout in his beliefs, and he cannot and will not separate the two things. It's impossible to argue for tolerance while being unable to tolerate the idea that other people disagree with you - whether they base their reasoning on their religion, their culture, or their politics.
Look at this way - you're only 16. Your generation is more colorblind, more tolerant of alternative lifestyles and different religions, and more likely to bend traditional gender roles than any other. In another 2 years, you can vote for whatever my generation hasn't already changed for you. The older generation currently in power is already losing a lot of ground. I frequently regret that my health problems will likely take me before I get to see what changes you, my nephew, and the rest of your age group bring about. (Hey, I got to see a black man made president. There are openly gay representatives in Washington. If we can follow that up with a woman president of any nationality or sexuality at all, I'll be happy!)
As for futilely declaring this thread a "religion free zone" - your generation should know better than any other that once you post something on the internet, it ceases to be in your control!
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I'm just glad there isn't a searchable record of my musings when I was 16.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
Too funny, but the fact is simply that you are not the god of this thread. Not arrogant at all, just trying to deal with patience with a someone not very mature at all. In any case, have a great day.
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I'm just glad there isn't a searchable record of my musings when I was 16.
:thumbup;
The 'tone' of this 'discussion' is disturbing and not friendly. Just my opinion. :twocents;
:thumbup;
KarenInWA
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I'm just glad there isn't a searchable record of my musings when I was 16.
All the more reason future generations are screwed heh
im glad for that too, sheesh, thats just a scary thought... i was a nut job... (was is actually pronounced *AM* in this case :p)
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
Too funny, but the fact is simply that you are not the god of this thread. Not arrogant at all, just trying to deal with patience with a someone not very mature at all. In any case, have a great day.
Well, I am 16 years old and have been on Dialysis since I was 14...so I'm not exactly mature in that regard. But the point still stands.
Jbeany, I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time he cannot be excused for his excessive religious pressing. We do that WAAY too much in this country. We excuse way too many religions, cultures, etc for their lack-luster beliefs and things such as Christianity's constant need to shove it down our throats and bash on gay marriage or Islam's claim to peace yet bombardment with violence.
You can't punish one offender if there is multiple. That's not exactly fair. I do admit, I am being bratty, but I do not appreciate Hemodoc's cocky, religious attitude. I see it all to much. I'm not in any way trying to say he cannot have his religion, but for the love of all that is sacred, keep it to himself.
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
Too funny, but the fact is simply that you are not the god of this thread. Not arrogant at all, just trying to deal with patience with a someone not very mature at all. In any case, have a great day.
Well, I am 16 years old and have been on Dialysis since I was 14...so I'm not exactly mature in that regard. But the point still stands.
Jbeany, I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time he cannot be excused for his excessive religious pressing. We do that WAAY too much in this country. We excuse way too many religions, cultures, etc for their lack-luster beliefs and things such as Christianity's constant need to shove it down our throats and bash on gay marriage or Islam's claim to peace yet bombardment with violence.
You can't punish one offender if there is multiple. That's not exactly fair. I do admit, I am being bratty, but I do not appreciate Hemodoc's cocky, religious attitude. I see it all to much. I'm not in any way trying to say he cannot have his religion, but for the love of all that is sacred, keep it to himself.
Hmmm, too funny on a thread on gay rights telling me to keep my religion to myself. Well, keep your gay rights private as well my friend. But in any case, at present religious freedoms IS a protected right, gay rights not so yet, but perhaps in the very near future once SCOTUS has its say.
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I'm just glad there isn't a searchable record of my musings when I was 16.
And I am glad there is nota searchable record of MINE when I was 40! Lol
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you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
Too funny, but the fact is simply that you are not the god of this thread. Not arrogant at all, just trying to deal with patience with a someone not very mature at all. In any case, have a great day.
Well, I am 16 years old and have been on Dialysis since I was 14...so I'm not exactly mature in that regard. But the point still stands.
Jbeany, I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time he cannot be excused for his excessive religious pressing. We do that WAAY too much in this country. We excuse way too many religions, cultures, etc for their lack-luster beliefs and things such as Christianity's constant need to shove it down our throats and bash on gay marriage or Islam's claim to peace yet bombardment with violence.
You can't punish one offender if there is multiple. That's not exactly fair. I do admit, I am being bratty, but I do not appreciate Hemodoc's cocky, religious attitude. I see it all to much. I'm not in any way trying to say he cannot have his religion, but for the love of all that is sacred, keep it to himself.
Hmmm, too funny on a thread on gay rights telling me to keep my religion to myself. Well, keep your gay rights private as well my friend. But in any case, at present religious freedoms IS a protected right, gay rights not so yet, but perhaps in the very near future once SCOTUS has its say.
Gay rights is an open ended thing, your religion is not. I'm not shoving this down anyone's throats.
Your religion may be a protected right, but it sure as hell isn't a protected REQUIREMENT. That's how you ACT like it is. And don't object.
-
you do realize that there are many different sexualities, beyond gay, straight, and bisexual, dont you? thats just a small scope of it, and its much easier to identify as one of those three, than trying to explain a sexuality, or lack thereof, to people...
And like I said earlier, its only a choice to act upon whatever that sexuality is... Our society is the only thing stopping people from making choices that would better benefit them. "Its a sin" .."its taboo" only because someone, somewhere, said so.
If folks want to go do all that as you listed, so be it. That is not the issue. Seeking approval from people that disagree with those lifestyles is and further, the legal ramifications have already been discussed. So, I don't see society stopping anyone from engaging in alternative lifestyles, just about all of those laws have been done away with or are never enforced if still on the books. So, if it is not illegal, it isn't, and there are no police running around arresting folks for alternative lifestyles, they don't, in what manner can you state that society is stopping anyone from their own personal choices? It isn't.
ROFLMAO
It isnt? really???
I dont mean that its illegal to be gay, or whatnot, i mean PEOPLE (aka society) make it very "wrong" and create a problem where there shouldnt be one. Its 'wrong' or a 'sin' to be gay... its 'wrong' to be polyamorous, its wrong to be bisexual, trisexual, transexual, assexual.... the only "right" way to be is man/woman/missionary position. ::)
Which btw, is total horse crap. Humans make it wrong, no one else. So maybe if people just worried about their own lives, instead of what everyone else is doing, things would be grand for all... just sayin
who would ever want to be bullied, or told they are a 'sinner' or wrong, or whatever, just because they fall in love with someone of the same sex, or whatever the case may be. That is what is WRONG with people.
it may not be illegal to love someone, but its not legal to gay wed in many places still... and not recognized.
Wow, no, I could care less what folks do in the privacy of their own homes whatsoever, and the last time I checked, I have never been to a sex ed Christian class on how to have sex with my wife. Sorry, don't know where you get such silliness, but it is a bit entertaining.
In any case, the issue is important enough that the Supreme Court is considering this very thing right now and it is reported they will rule by sometime in June.
Do I personally believe these "alternative" lifestyles are wrong? Yes, but it is also none of my business. Go do whatever you wish to do, but all I have stated, is that we shall all stand before our Holy God who created us and give account. If you or others don't believe in Him now, I can't help that, but I have no doubt He is real and we will stand before our eternal judge and give account. In fact, that is the Christian's duty to only advise of this day to come and if folks want to ignore it, so be it. And by the way, we are ALL sinners, each and every one of us.
While you say that it is non of your business, thats great, but im not talking directly about you... Im talking about people as a whole. If it truly didnt matter or wasnt anyones business then why the hell would it matter that they marry?? Obviously someone out there thinks that it IS their business... even though it is not.
and there is no need to say that the things i say are "such silliness". Thats rude. You misconstrewed what i meant and then called it silliness. I could not care less what you do to your wife, or what you believe in, because IM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.
Yes, we are all sinners, no doubt. so why bother trying to point out what ya'll consider wrong, when it isnt your place?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thats what people need to remember.
All I have to say is To each his own.
And thus the hypocrisy of Christianity. "We are all sinners" but we have the right to point out all of YOUR sins. I am totally, 100% in agreement with you. You've said some great things that don't influence how I feel about the overexposure and pressing of the issues, but I do get the idea a little more beyond just "how its done" if you catch my drift. ;)
Not at all my friend, no hypocrisy whatsoever. I am not on any crusade to judge your life or anyone else's. I will be happy to point you to the truth of the Bible if you are ever interested and God's law where He and He alone has defined what is right and what is wrong. I have no doubt that God is real and He exists. I have no doubt that the Bible is His Holy word. I would urge everyone of those simple truths and to get right with God during this life.
I can't answer for anyone else, only myself, but there are many sins all of which folks will account for when they stand before our Holy God and Creator who is also our Saviour for all who call upon His name in faith believing.
If you don't wish to understand those simple truths, so be it but I am more than happy to should you ever seek that knowledge and understanding.
How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.
If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
Too funny, but the fact is simply that you are not the god of this thread. Not arrogant at all, just trying to deal with patience with a someone not very mature at all. In any case, have a great day.
Well, I am 16 years old and have been on Dialysis since I was 14...so I'm not exactly mature in that regard. But the point still stands.
Jbeany, I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time he cannot be excused for his excessive religious pressing. We do that WAAY too much in this country. We excuse way too many religions, cultures, etc for their lack-luster beliefs and things such as Christianity's constant need to shove it down our throats and bash on gay marriage or Islam's claim to peace yet bombardment with violence.
You can't punish one offender if there is multiple. That's not exactly fair. I do admit, I am being bratty, but I do not appreciate Hemodoc's cocky, religious attitude. I see it all to much. I'm not in any way trying to say he cannot have his religion, but for the love of all that is sacred, keep it to himself.
Hmmm, too funny on a thread on gay rights telling me to keep my religion to myself. Well, keep your gay rights private as well my friend. But in any case, at present religious freedoms IS a protected right, gay rights not so yet, but perhaps in the very near future once SCOTUS has its say.
Gay rights is an open ended thing, your religion is not. I'm not shoving this down anyone's throats.
Your religion may be a protected right, but it sure as hell isn't a protected REQUIREMENT. That's how you ACT like it is. And don't object.
Not at all, I have offered you or anyone else that wishes to know of the hope that resides within me by sending me a pm. Some have actually taking me up on that offer. If not interested, so be it, I won't push at all. It is all your choice. But, my friend, make no mistake, if you feel you can shout and keep people like me silent, you are wrong. If you feel you can mock and ridicule, no big deal. I would simply state that your antics of late are wearing thin on folks here at IHD. At some point you will need to start acting a bit more like an adult or you will need to find some other place to spread your tirades. IHD moderators have a great deal of patience, but it wears out in due time. Just sayin my friend.
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Would you two mind terribly not using the quote button so freely? That is why this thread is so long! The whole page is full of purple quotes! Thanks!
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Well said, MooseMom!!!
KarenInWA
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Would you two mind terribly not using the quote button so freely? That is why this thread is so long! The whole page is full of purple quotes! Thanks!
But I thought you liked purple???? Oh my. If not, what is your favorite color, hopefully not "pink." :yahoo;
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MM- I was just thinking that very thing and scroll down and see you said that! :bow;
And Maybe I dont understand what the heck mods me when they said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS but there seems to be a lot in this post, from a few different people.
come on people... there really is no need to start telling people they are immature when they arent even an adult yet... that seems wrong to me..
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MM- I was just thinking that very thing and scroll down and see you said that! :bow;
And Maybe I dont understand what the heck mods me when they said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS but there seems to be a lot in this post, from a few different people.
come on people... there really is no need to start telling people they are immature when they arent even an adult yet... that seems wrong to me..
Hmmm, you mean someone who is 16 who can now legally drive, legally work, legally become emancipated, legally become married in some states with parents permission and take college level courses. Yes, being 16 is an age where a degree of maturity is already expected. Acting "bratty" is not something that IHD usually tolerates and is not at all excused by being only 16. So, that is not at all a personal attack, just a call for him to act a bit more of his age. 16 is not just a kid any longer.
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Would you two mind terribly not using the quote button so freely? That is why this thread is so long! The whole page is full of purple quotes! Thanks!
But I thought you liked purple???? Oh my. If not, what is your favorite color, hopefully not "pink." :yahoo;
I could be provacative and obnoxious and say that I have a whole rainbow of favorite colors, but I won't. :rofl;
I like just about any color but orange.
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MM- I was just thinking that very thing and scroll down and see you said that! :bow;
And Maybe I dont understand what the heck mods me when they said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS but there seems to be a lot in this post, from a few different people.
come on people... there really is no need to start telling people they are immature when they arent even an adult yet... that seems wrong to me..
Hmmm, you mean someone who is 16 who can now legally drive, legally work, legally become emancipated, legally become married in some states with parents permission and take college level courses. Yes, being 16 is an age where a degree of maturity is already expected. Acting "bratty" is not something that IHD usually tolerates and is not at all excused by being only 16. So, that is not at all a personal attack, just a call for him to act a bit more of his age. 16 is not just a kid any longer.
And in most states your ignorant disregard for anyone's beliefs but your own is to be seen as blatantly insulting.
Why don't you stop while you're ahead.
I can already tell you that I would NEVER choose you as a doctor knowing how you speak on here. Your beliefs are way too strong. They would most certainly get in the way of my care.
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MM- I was just thinking that very thing and scroll down and see you said that! :bow;
And Maybe I dont understand what the heck mods me when they said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS but there seems to be a lot in this post, from a few different people.
come on people... there really is no need to start telling people they are immature when they arent even an adult yet... that seems wrong to me..
Hmmm, you mean someone who is 16 who can now legally drive, legally work, legally become emancipated, legally become married in some states with parents permission and take college level courses. Yes, being 16 is an age where a degree of maturity is already expected. Acting "bratty" is not something that IHD usually tolerates and is not at all excused by being only 16. So, that is not at all a personal attack, just a call for him to act a bit more of his age. 16 is not just a kid any longer.
And in most states your ignorant disregard for anyone's beliefs but your own is to be seen as blatantly insulting.
Why don't you stop while you're ahead.
I can already tell you that I would NEVER choose you as a doctor knowing how you speak on here. Your beliefs are way too strong. They would most certainly get in the way of my care.
Dear iKAZ3D,
I have respected you and your rights to speak your mind and will continue to do so. As far as my beliefs, once again, I was a very popular and sought after doctor in my system and my beliefs did not interfere whatsoever with my medical practice. Are you assuming that belief in God is incompatible with being a doctor???? Look up Luke the physician and how God used him in a mighty way. Once again, I had gay and lesbians on my patient panel who sought me out specifically. You are wrong once again young man. In any case, I am retired so your comment is a mute issue anyway.
So, learn a bit more about religious liberty in the US my friend, you have a very biased and frankly bigoted view of Christians.
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And in most states your ignorant disregard for anyone's beliefs but your own is to be seen as blatantly insulting.
Why don't you stop while you're ahead.
I can already tell you that I would NEVER choose you as a doctor knowing how you speak on here. Your beliefs are way too strong. They would most certainly get in the way of my care.
OK, now wait a minute.
Speaking for myself, while it is true that Hemodoc does have strong beliefs (and he is by no means the only one amongst us), I've never felt that he has disregarded mine.
If someone disagrees with you, it doesn't follow that your views have been disregarded.
You probably don't realize that Hemodoc has been a fervent advocate for the renal community. As both a physician and a dialysis patient, he is best placed to be one of the strongest voices in a community that all too often falls victim to disregard and even downright abuse. You should be so lucky to have such a doctor.
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MM- I was just thinking that very thing and scroll down and see you said that! :bow;
And Maybe I dont understand what the heck mods me when they said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS but there seems to be a lot in this post, from a few different people.
come on people... there really is no need to start telling people they are immature when they arent even an adult yet... that seems wrong to me..
Hmmm, you mean someone who is 16 who can now legally drive, legally work, legally become emancipated, legally become married in some states with parents permission and take college level courses. Yes, being 16 is an age where a degree of maturity is already expected. Acting "bratty" is not something that IHD usually tolerates and is not at all excused by being only 16. So, that is not at all a personal attack, just a call for him to act a bit more of his age. 16 is not just a kid any longer.
And in most states your ignorant disregard for anyone's beliefs but your own is to be seen as blatantly insulting.
Why don't you stop while you're ahead.
I can already tell you that I would NEVER choose you as a doctor knowing how you speak on here. Your beliefs are way too strong. They would most certainly get in the way of my care.
Dear iKAZ3D,
I have respected you and your rights to speak your mind and will continue to do so. As far as my beliefs, once again, I was a very popular and sought after doctor in my system and my beliefs did not interfere whatsoever with my medical practice. Are you assuming that belief in God is incompatible with being a doctor???? Look up Luke the physician and how God used him in a mighty way. Once again, I had gay and lesbians on my patient panel who sought me out specifically. You are wrong once again young man. In any case, I am retired so your comment is a mute issue anyway.
So, learn a bit more about religious liberty in the US my friend, you have a very biased and frankly bigoted view of Christians.
Once again, YOU ARE REFERRING ME TO THE BIBLE.
You are more than aware: I DO NOT READ THE BIBLE.
How do you not get the connection that you are imposing?
So stop, better yet, I'll stop, because if you'll look at my intro thread, I'm leaving the site. Au Revoir.
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MM- I was just thinking that very thing and scroll down and see you said that! :bow;
And Maybe I dont understand what the heck mods me when they said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS but there seems to be a lot in this post, from a few different people.
come on people... there really is no need to start telling people they are immature when they arent even an adult yet... that seems wrong to me..
Hmmm, you mean someone who is 16 who can now legally drive, legally work, legally become emancipated, legally become married in some states with parents permission and take college level courses. Yes, being 16 is an age where a degree of maturity is already expected. Acting "bratty" is not something that IHD usually tolerates and is not at all excused by being only 16. So, that is not at all a personal attack, just a call for him to act a bit more of his age. 16 is not just a kid any longer.
And in most states your ignorant disregard for anyone's beliefs but your own is to be seen as blatantly insulting.
Why don't you stop while you're ahead.
I can already tell you that I would NEVER choose you as a doctor knowing how you speak on here. Your beliefs are way too strong. They would most certainly get in the way of my care.
Dear iKAZ3D,
I have respected you and your rights to speak your mind and will continue to do so. As far as my beliefs, once again, I was a very popular and sought after doctor in my system and my beliefs did not interfere whatsoever with my medical practice. Are you assuming that belief in God is incompatible with being a doctor???? Look up Luke the physician and how God used him in a mighty way. Once again, I had gay and lesbians on my patient panel who sought me out specifically. You are wrong once again young man. In any case, I am retired so your comment is a mute issue anyway.
So, learn a bit more about religious liberty in the US my friend, you have a very biased and frankly bigoted view of Christians.
Once again, YOU ARE REFERRING ME TO THE BIBLE.
You are more than aware: I DO NOT READ THE BIBLE.
How do you not get the connection that you are imposing?
So stop, better yet, I'll stop, because if you'll look at my intro thread, I'm leaving the site. Au Revoir.
No need to leave young man, just learn how to express your views without trying to insult everyone you disagree with.