I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: cherpep on November 03, 2008, 02:04:24 PM
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Recently, I was having a discussion with someone who had very strong opinions about Medicare and any government involvement in healthcare. His question to me was - and this is a direct quote -
"What right do you have to use the strong arm of government to confiscate the fruits of other people's work to care for your medical conditions?"
He fully believes that medical care should be handled through the freemarket and that pricing would be controlled by competition. Thoughts? Opinions?
By the way, I completely disagreed with him, but found it to be a rather emotional discussion for me. The next time I talk to this person I hope to have a little less emotion, and a little more ammo.
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Im no pro on such things. But when my time comes i hope to have medicaid or some kind of medical assistance for myself.
I have been paying into the system since i was 16. I have never once collected unemployment. I attempted to once but had a job by the time the paperwork was all filled ect.
Same as Social security. I have been paying into that and it looks like i may never get a dime of it.
Tell your friend good for him and not to take it. More people like him who wont take it will mean it goes to people like many of us who need it now or will in the future.
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I worked. I paid taxes. My parents both worked and paid in all their lives - then died before they saw a dime of it. If you die before you are old enough to collect, they send your survivors a death benefit so small it's almost a joke - something like $281 dollars. So I see my collecting SS earlier than planned as my collecting back my family inheritance!
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Ask this same person what would he do if faced with a devastating medical condition. Does he have several millions to pay for his care? I am guessing he wouldn't care who was paying what as long as he is taken care of. Just one hospitalization I had in 2005 was roughly 250,000 covered by insurance. I was hospitalized 4 times that year. What would happen if there was mis management by the free market? It happens all the time. Look at pension plans that go under. Look at the banking mess we have now. I don't think any of us want to be taken care of by the government. But we pay taxes and deserve it. People lose jobs and benefits all the time.
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You are not taking other people's money.
Medicare is a social insurance program administered by the United States government, providing health insurance coverage to people who are aged 65 and over, or who meet other special criteria. It was originally signed into law on July 30, 1965, by President Lyndon B. Johnson as amendments to Social Security legislation.
Individuals are eligible for Medicare if they are a U.S. citizen or have been a permanent legal resident for 5 continuous years, and they are 65 years or older, or they are under 65, disabled and have been receiving either Social Security or the Railroad Retirement Board disability benefits for at least 24 months, or they get continuing dialysis for end stage renal disease or need a kidney transplant, or they are eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance and have Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS-Lou Gehrig's disease).
Tell that jerk to buzz off! :boxing;
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:-)
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There are two saying:
A liberal becomes a conservative after they are mugged.
A conservative becomes a liberal after their health insurance runs out.
8)
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There are two saying:
A liberal becomes a conservative after they are mugged.
A conservative becomes a liberal after their health insurance runs out.
8)
Zach said it all. :waving;
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Cherpep, I would spend/waste little or no time trying to convince that person about anything. We do not choose illness (or other natural disasters either for that matter) and people who think that each of us ought to, at all times and under all circumstances, be totally responsible for everything we might need, may discover how impractical that view is should they ever be hit hard with any kind of catastrophe.
I do not believe that anyone "owes" anyone a living or medical care or whatever but I personally would not want to live in a society that would turn it's back on those among us who have any kind of tragedy befall us.
It's easy to think that we are each an island when we're young, strong, healthy and the world is our oyster. But very few of us die thinking that we accomplished everything we did without help from others along our journey. Self-reliance is an admirable quality, total self-sufficiency in every aspect of life is rarely (if ever) achieved and those who believe that they owe no debt to anyone are most likely simply forgetting how they got to be where they are.
Leave the fools to debate their own misguided foolishness.
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E Pluribus Unum.
8)
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There are two saying:
A liberal becomes a conservative after they are mugged.
A conservative becomes a liberal after their health insurance runs out.
8)
OMG that is hilarious~~ :rofl;
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Just tell him you hope he never gets ESRD and has dialysis at 40,000 dollars a month!
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that guy is lucky he wasn't talking to me! i worked hard for 40 years, i earned every dam cent i'm getting. something tells me he couldn't live on what i do. people like that, well, never mind, i'll be a good girl.........
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You put money in the "bank" every payday. Automatic deposit. When retirement time comes, or you are disabled, you receive withdrawals once a month from that "account" --money you earned and that was held for you. I have worked since I was 16. I didn't ask for this disease. I hope the person who asked you the question never is in the postiion to need medicare.
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We are not taking other people's money. We are taking our own money, that most of us have spent years paying into Social Security. Whoever this person is, seems to be mixed up about
how our system works. I'm with Monrein, don't waste your breath on this idiot. No man is an
island. We need each other and we need our govt, govt that we put in place by elections to
take care of the nitty gritty things that come along in everyone's life. I'm so glad I am an
American and tomorrow I am voting for the next President of the United States. May the best
man and the one God intended win.
Love, Mimi
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Thanks for your responses. This man is actually a doctor, not my doctor thank goodness. When I responded that I've been paying into Social Security for years, and am just calling on the insurance I've been paying. His response was - when your money runs out, which it will or probably already has since dialysis is so expensive - then you are just taking the money that others put in. What gives you that right? He agreed I was entitled to what I paid, but nothing more. He went on to explain that people should save their own anyway instead of having the government take it. Basically, I told him that in his world only the rich would get medical treatment. He said shame on me, that I should have more faith in the generosity of my fellow citizens, that the Americans are the most generous people in the world.
I was flabbergasted that this attitude exists, but it is very real. It is unbelievable to me that he (and many others) think that it is acceptable for the only chance of medical treatment or survival for that matter would have to rely upon someone being generous enough to give them the treatment. How can this not be a right?
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Gee, I wonder if he has car insurance or house insurance or life insurance. Apparently he doesn't understand how insurance systems work. You buy the insurance and then some need it and some (hopefully) don't, but you have financial security and peace of mind knowing the insurance is there if you need it. It's difficult to argue with people like that.
Yes, we do need reform of the health care system because the overall costs of medical care are rising so quickly, but that is a problem for the policymakers and legislators.
You can ask him if he is doing his part to help control rising medical costs. Doctors in Europe's healthcare systems make good livings, but not the extraordinarily good livings of many doctors in the US. When I read news pieces that say doctors are having trouble getting paid sufficiently for their services, I always check the parking lots. As long as doctors continue to drive Mercedes, I will have trouble buying the argument.
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I notice he didn't expand on "dialysis is expensive". It just depends on which side of the needle you are on.
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Ask him if he is self-insured against Malpractice claims. I'm nearly 70 and the only Medicare claims I have is a yearly visit to the Doc and it is because he would not renew my one BP prescription without a visit, I figure my excess account amounts can be drawn on to cover Sharon's D expenses.........
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Malpractice - good one. I'll definitely use that.
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Its hard to even figure out what to say to this "doctor" and I'll use that term loosely. He obviously does not understand how insurance works. While is fine - but Congress many years ago decided that giving people treatment for kidney failure was a national priority and that is how coverage started. Ask yourself why Congress felt it was a priority. One answer is obviously that there were many Americans who had the disease at the time. Are the numbers up from then? Or down? My guess the numbers are up.
I believe that health care is a right not a privilege for a certain number that can afford health care coverage. I also feel that medicare or medicaid patients do not necessarily get the level of treatment that patients with full health insurance coverage get. Just an observation I've made over the years after talking with people with no insurance or with medicare insurance.
Dialysis is very expensive. So, how do you think it got that expensive? The health care industry, which includes all the doctors, saw a great way to make some money off people who were unlucky enough to develop kidney failure and then it was full speed ahead.
Personally, I would not give that doctor any credence or the time of day.
Sandyb
:bunny: :bunny:
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A legitimate doctor said that!?!?!?! :Kit n Stik; I'd be tempted to hand him a gun and ask him if he was willing to shoot me, because if he's taking away my medical care, then he's causing my death anyway. He might as well see the blood.
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I would just have to had to ask him had anyone in his family ever been "struck down" with a chronic disease and if so or even if not so, how would he feel then? Would he not be willing to help his "brother" out then? just my :twocents;