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Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Maggie and Jeff on September 26, 2008, 09:18:37 AM

Title: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Maggie and Jeff on September 26, 2008, 09:18:37 AM
     An answer (in part) for all ya'll out there dealing with lack of energy and low protein or albumin numbers. I have had a protein leak for about 4 years now,I was very tired ALL the time and my protein and albumin were very low.

      My dietitian wanted me to eat more meat than was humanly possible! (at least for me) anyway Jeff got on the net and found these protein pills called "Proteinex". They have helped me so much it's amazing raises albumin (and protein) and consequently gives me alot more energy, I still get tired but not near as much.

      To make a long story,well not short but at least not AS long the pills are made up of ~ you guessed it~ Protein! No Phosphorous, no Potassium, no sodium, just protein.

     It comes in tablets (Chewable but I just swallow them) and liquid. The liquid tastes AWFUL I hear. Jeff tried it and told the dietitian not to bother " no way would Maggie swallow that on purpose!"

     They cost about $25 per 120 tablets and I have to take quite a few (less now that my numbers are up) I am down to 7 a day 2 in the morning 3 after dialysis and 2 again at night. But as a dialysis patient and even before dialysis I have to swallow so many pills they aren't really all that noticeable.

     These are not a prescription drug so insurance does not cover them at all.  We get them from "Surgical World" 7 bottles of 120 tablets for $144.  that breaks down to $20.57 per bottle shipped and that is lasting about three months.

     Anybody out there with a protein leak or low albumin should give these a try they have done wonders for me.

     Jeff is going to put in some info on obtaining them, my knowledge of computers is limited and Jeff does most of our computer work while I am "on machine" allowing him to be close but not hovering and twiddling his thumbs for 2.5 hours a day.

    So try these pills and Good Luck!

    I think you will feel better and be in better health, they helped me cure an infection that had all the doc's scratching their collective heads!!!



                                   One of these pictures is the label off the bottle the other is a list of places you can buy it from.






EDITED: Moved to Dialysis General Discussion - Sluff/Admin




Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: kitkatz on September 27, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
Please check with your nephrologist before taking anything new. 


These look interesting.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Maggie and Jeff on September 27, 2008, 04:49:50 PM
Please check with your nephrologist before taking anything new. 

Yes, always check with your nephrologist first before you try anything new. 

Thanks Kitkatz
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 27, 2008, 09:40:11 PM
The problem with some of these protein supplements is that they may not include all the necessary amino acids and in the correct ratios to work correctly for people on hemodialysis.  Many times they are not derived from "high quality" protein, which comes from animals, such as eggs, beef, chicken and fish.  Whey protein is one of the best sources for supplementation and has a complete amino acid profile.

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Maggie and Jeff on September 27, 2008, 09:46:58 PM
Yeah I try to eat as much protien as I can I just know this stuff has really saved my bitt and kept my numbers good, so I really like it! Also I can't take the whey protein
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: BigSky on September 28, 2008, 07:15:33 AM
The problem with some of these protein supplements is that they may not include all the necessary amino acids and in the correct ratios to work correctly for people on hemodialysis.  Many times they are not derived from "high quality" protein, which comes from animals, such as eggs, beef, chicken and fish.  Whey protein is one of the best sources for supplementation and has a complete amino acid profile.

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Also the cost per serving of protein is pretty cheap with whey.  Mine is roughly .40 cents a serving (23 grams protein)
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 09:12:46 AM

Also the cost per serving of protein is pretty cheap with whey.  Mine is roughly .40 cents a serving (23 grams protein)


Which brand do you use?  And how's the phosphorus?

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: BigSky on September 28, 2008, 09:23:09 AM
Its EAS  5 pounds for just over $30.00. 

Phosphorus isnt listed.   Potassium is 140mg a serving.  Figure Phosphorus is roughly the same as other whey powders as my labs havent changed from when I have used other whey products.

Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: ReneeP on September 28, 2008, 10:08:01 AM
Okay, I have a question.  I am on peritoneal dialysis and my protein and albumin are always low.  Not WAY low just enough to get me bit### at every month when I have labs and to be very tired all the time.  I have not heard from my dietician about any of these.  I printed out the info that Maggie and Jeff put on here to talk with my people about but I also have not heard of "whey", could someone explain?

I appreciate the info!

Renee
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 10:32:01 AM

I printed out the info that Maggie and Jeff put on here to talk with my people about but I also have not heard of "whey", could someone explain?


Unfortunately, not all dialysis centers are doing a good job at providing nutritional information.  And not all dietitians are good at what they do.

In many ways we need to take more control of our health, and what we eat is part of the solution (or part of the problem).
As a person on PD, you may actually need to consume more protein than a person on HD.

According to the National Kidney Foundation, a person on Peritoneal Dialysis needs from 1.2 to 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day.  Now of course each person has different circumstances (under weight or over weight), but adjusting for those issues, the Guidelines are important to follow.

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http://www.kidney.org/professionals/kdoqi/guidelines_updates/nut_a16.html
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: monrein on September 28, 2008, 11:06:42 AM
The protein supplement my naturopath suggested is SON formula.  She says it's superior to whey as more of it is readily absorbed (99%) versus (84%).  I don't use it yet but am considering it.  She consulted with another naturopath who has a transplant and I gave the information on it to my dietician when I was pre-dialysis.  The dietician worried I'd end up with too much protein.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 11:35:12 AM

The protein supplement my naturopath suggested is SON formula.  She says it's superior to whey as more of it is readily absorbed (99%) versus (84%).


I went to their site.  Overloaded with information, which makes me a bit skeptical. One of the most important facts missing is a list of the amino acids included and at what amounts.

All proteins are made up of amino acids, but not all proteins are "complete" proteins, which is determined by which amino acids are included and at what amounts.  There are supplements out there which are "incomplete proteins" and are less effective with those on a limited diet such as the renal diet.

All I am saying is buyer beware--especially persons on dialysis.

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: monrein on September 28, 2008, 12:10:27 PM
http://www.drugs.com/pdr/son-formula-tablets.html

I'd never rely solely on internet info or manufacturer info.  I found this other link (above) that lists the amino acid profile but it really means nothing to me Zach.  Curious what you think of it.  My dietician thought it looked good but she worried that I'd have to forego dietary protein altogether.  I started looking into it when I was pre-dialysis and worried about malnutrition since I was eating nothing to speak of.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 01:00:10 PM

My dietician thought it looked good but she worried that I'd have to forego dietary protein altogether.


That's just silly, since one tablet (1,000 mg) seems to be the equivalent of only 2.5 grams of "high biological value dietary proteins."

The PDR information is interesting and it does include the amino acid profile.  Thanks.  The product does have the essential amino acids, but only the 7 and none of the non-essential amino acids.  And remember, also, PDR information is supplied by the company.

In general, I've been trying to figure these things out for years.  Most dietitians at centers are not educated enough in nutritional sciences to address this complicated issue.  And the blovation by the company in its description of its product seems to insure a lack of full understanding. 

What I try to do is simply look at how a supplement's amino acid profile (in milligrams not grams) stacks up against excellent sources of protein (and amino acids) such as eggs and fish.  Using an Excel spread sheet helps.  There's a lot of math the company makes you do to figure out the answer.

Also, knowing what the recommended daily amounts of the different amino acids is helpful.  But as people on dialysis, we need more than just the RDA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

Because of my own curiosity, I'll have some answers soon.

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: BigSky on September 28, 2008, 02:21:40 PM

I went to their site.  Overloaded with information, which makes me a bit skeptical. One of the most important facts missing is a list of the amino acids included and at what amounts.

All proteins are made up of amino acids, but not all proteins are "complete" proteins, which is determined by which amino acids are included and at what amounts.  There are supplements out there which are "incomplete proteins" and are less effective with those on a limited diet such as the renal diet.

All I am saying is buyer beware--especially persons on dialysis.

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Some of their claims, especially about other proteins, make me a bit skeptical too.  Especially the part about the double blind study.  Studies were done by:  American Nutrition Clinics, Coral Gables, Florida 33143, USA.  Did a search of for Florida and didnt find this business in the online phone book.






EAS whey protein amino acid profile  in mg

Alanine           1100
Arginine           630
Aspartic Acid    2600
Cysteine            550
Glutamic Acid   3700
Glycine              430
Histidine            430
Isoleucine        1420
Lysine              2190
Leucine            2500
Methionine         520
Phenylalanine      760
Proline              1380
Serine               1300
Threonine          1790
Tryptophan        380
Tryosine             710
Valine                1350


Total BCAA's   5270 mg             Valine 1350      Isoleucine   1420                Leucine  2500

BV= 104
PD= 100
NPU= 92

Biological Value 104    BV is the proportion of absorbed protein that is retained in the body for maintenance and or growth.
The BV calue of egg protein is defined as 100
Adapted from the Nutritional Quality of Proteins, European Dairy Association 1997

Protein Digestibility  PD the proportion of food protein absorbed.

Net Protein Utilization  NPU is the proportion of protein intake that is retained. (calculated as bv x pd)

Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 03:02:41 PM

BV= 104
PD= 100
NPU= 92

Biological Value 104    BV is the proportion of absorbed protein that is retained in the body for maintenance and or growth.
The BV calue of egg protein is defined as 100
Adapted from the Nutritional Quality of Proteins, European Dairy Association 1997

Protein Digestibility  PD the proportion of food protein absorbed.

Net Protein Utilization  NPU is the proportion of protein intake that is retained. (calculated as bv x pd)


These are the standards in comparing protein sources.  When a company fails to use these measurements to compare their own product with others, one must ask themselves why.  All the flow charts and science-speak won't help and if it sounds to good to be true ...

remember about lipstick and a pig?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_Value
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDCAAS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_protein_utilization
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: MiSSis on September 28, 2008, 03:37:05 PM
I've constantly battled low albumin levels ever since I started back on PD 5 yrs ago.  I eat some amount of protein with each meal but just can't seem to eat enough to keep my levels up.  The dietician at my unit recommended I try a protein supplement but will only approve Healthy 'n Fit 100% Egg Protein powder.  I live in the midwest and the center got one of the grocery stores in the area to carry the product.  Others in the chain (HyVee) will order it but don't currently carry it.  She gave me a recipe for a shake but it is 300 calories per serving.  I have trouble enough with the weight I've gained just from doing PD that I hesitate to add an additional 300 calories per day.  I'm just not able to be active enough to counterbalance the extra calories.  Slowly but surely I've put on 15 lbs since starting dialysis and am not having any luck at taking it off. 

The protein tablets sound interesting and like they'd be a nice alternative to the shakes for me but I'll definitely run all the information by the dietician before taking any. 

Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 04:04:13 PM

The dietician at my unit recommended I try a protein supplement but will only approve Healthy 'n Fit 100% Egg Protein powder.


Interesting product, since egg whites are some of the best high quality proteins.
I wonder what are Healthy 'n Fit 100% Egg Protein powder's phosphorus and potassium levels.  Egg whites are usually low in phosphorus but somewhat high in potassium.

It is difficult sometimes to juggle all this stuff--consuming enough protein (1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day) without going over phosphorus and potassium restrictions.

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Maggie and Jeff on September 28, 2008, 04:13:29 PM
It is difficult sometimes to juggle all this stuff--consuming enough protein (1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day) without going over phosphorus and potassium restrictions.
That is why Maggie likes these pills so much it lets her eat other things she likes without going over phosphorus and potassium restrictions.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 28, 2008, 04:16:07 PM
Here's some comparison on 10 grams of protein v.source.

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: MiSSis on September 28, 2008, 06:04:35 PM
Zach,

I'll check with my unit about the potassium and phosphorus levels in the Egg Protein powder I have.  I do know that it comes in several flavors but she told me not to buy the chocolate (which I would have preferred!) because it was higher in phosphorus.  Since I do PD, I don't normally have a problem with potassium unless it summer and fresh tomato season.  Thankfully I made it through pretty well this year!

Like you said before, it's really difficult to manage all of this. 
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Trikkechickk on September 29, 2008, 05:06:42 AM
Its EAS  5 pounds for just over $30.00. 

Phosphorus isnt listed.   Potassium is 140mg a serving.  Figure Phosphorus is roughly the same as other whey powders as my labs havent changed from when I have used other whey products.



I also use EAS.  When I ordered my 2 cases of Nephro, I asked to be connected to the EAS division.  They told me that the EAS Whey Protein contained 100 grams (not sure of the unit) of phosphorus per serving.  So I decided to use the Food-Coop's whey protein w/ zero phosphorous, but now use 1 scoop of each in my morning fruit smoothie. 

BTW, my smoothie is kidney friendly;  Non-enriched rice milk, 2 scoops whey protein; blueberries and strawberries.

I am having a harder time w/meat - it grosses me out.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: BigSky on September 29, 2008, 06:39:27 AM
It is difficult sometimes to juggle all this stuff--consuming enough protein (1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day) without going over phosphorus and potassium restrictions.
That is why Maggie likes these pills so much it lets her eat other things she likes without going over phosphorus and potassium restrictions.


One will also have to weight the cost factor.

24 grams of protein from those pills will run $5.00 compared to protein powder being less than .50 cents for that same serving of 24 grams of protein.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on September 29, 2008, 06:44:48 AM

One will also have to weight the cost factor.

24 grams of protein from those pills will run $5.00 compared to protein powder being less than .50 cents for that same serving of 24 grams of protein.


Very good point.

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Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Maggie and Jeff on September 29, 2008, 05:39:51 PM
Yes, I agree price is important but it also has to be swallowed to do any good and Maggie would only eat the whey if it was made into a shake that used icecream.  She does not like milk of any kind.  She only takes 7 grams of the proteinex to keep her protein and albumin at the right level and when she started them she took 9 grams per day and that raised both protein and albumin a point or two per month. The monthly cost to us for the proteinex is $36.00 and Maggie takes them.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: MiSSis on October 02, 2008, 02:11:46 PM
I talked to the dietitian at my unit today and asked her about the phosphorus and potassium levels in Healthy 'n Fit 100% Egg Protein Powder. 

In 2 Tablespoons of the powder there is 35 mg. phosphorus and 311 mg potassium. 

Although she gave me a recipe for a shake, I've been adding 2 T. to my morning oatmeal.  I didn't want the extra calories from the shake but for those who don't mind them, here's the recipe:

1/3 cup low potassium fruit juice, sherbet or sorbet
1/3 cup liquid non-dairy creamer (I use non-fat Coffee Rich)
1/3 cup egg beaters
2 tablespoons Egg Protein Powder

Mix well.  (I used a blender and added some crushed ice.)

Oh, and if you use it in oatmeal, I found it works best to mix the dry oatmeal and the powder well with a fork or small whisk before adding water.  The egg protein powder will have a tendency to clump otherwise.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: thegrammalady on October 03, 2008, 10:52:09 AM
for the first two years on dialysis i took a hard boiled egg for breakfast along with some fruit. i got to the point i couldn't even face an egg and in the last year i've maybe eaten 4 eggs of any kind. i started looking for protein bars that didn't taste like sawdust and were low in phos and potassium. and didn't remind me of chewy granola bars which i hate. we came up with zone bars. many of the flavors don't meet the low phos and potassium requirement but some of them do and they taste good. my medicaid pays for them, however you can get them at the grocery store, they've been running about $1.25 each and sometimes are on sale for $1. i also get a protein cookie, a diabetic one so there is no sugar, but they come is several flavors too. they however have to be ordered through a supply firm. sure beats hard boiled eggs. since i have Medicaid the doctor just needed to write an rx and the dietitian took care of the rest.
Title: Re: Here is a way to raise protein and albumin without eating meat.
Post by: Zach on October 03, 2008, 11:09:20 AM

i started looking for protein bars that didn't taste like sawdust and were low in phos and potassium. and didn't remind me of chewy granola bars which i hate. we came up with zone bars. many of the flavors don't meet the low phos and potassium requirement but some of them do and they taste good. my medicaid pays for them, however you can get them at the grocery store, they've been running about $1.25 each and sometimes are on sale for $1.


I too, like the Zone Perfect bars.  The new ZonePerfect Double Dark Chocolate is really good.  Plus you get some important vitamins and minerals--but not too much.

Potassium: 160mg
Phosphorus 15% DV (150 mg)
Protein: 12g

--a little lower protein than I would prefer, but you can't beat the taste!  And it has no sugar alcohols or artificial sweeteners.
http://zoneperfect.com/products_dark_double.aspx

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