Am I selfish to want to skip dialysis & have a transplant?

[paddbear0000]

I was talking to someone at school a little while ago when somehow the subject of me needing a transplant came up. At one point in the conversation, the girl said she felt it was selfish that I planned on doing a preemptive transplant and not doing dialysis at all. She said that why should I get a kidney when there are people suffering on dialysis and I won't be?! I have often thought about this myself to be honest and was wondering what other people's thoughts were on this.

[MyssAnne]

Nope. I don't think it's selfish. I think it's smart, if you can, to skip dialysis altogether. Tell ya what. Tell your girl that SHE can have your
dialysis for you, and let you know what she thinks after she's crashed, infiltrated, had infections, etc. 

The whole POINT is to avoid dialysis.  I'm getting a little irked at her quite frankly.  If you get a transplant before dialysis, ALL the MORE
POWER to you! 

I don't think ANYONE here would wish that upon anyone else.   Okay. Off my soapbox. I'll try to contain or channel my irksomeness
into something productive....

[paris]

There are many opinions on this subject.  The best answer is what you and your doctors feel is the best course of action for you. I've been told that the quicker you can get the transplant, the better.  If you are fortunate enough to have a matching living donor, what purpose would it serve to wait?  Some will tell you that you need to experience dialysis so you can appreciate your new kidney. I don't have to have a heart attack to know I don't want to have one.    I hope you can get a transplant as quickly as possible--that is my hope for everyone here waiting. The waiting is hard.   Go for it, Paddbear!

[jbeany]

Selfish for not wanting to be sick, miserable, nauseous on a regular basis, broke from spending all your money on gas to get to treatments?  Selfish for wanting the best treatment available?  Selfish for wanting to skip the health risks associated with long term dialysis? 

Hell, that's not selfish, that's just plain sensible!  Hook your dippy (and perfectly healthy, I'm guessing) friend up to a stinking machine and see how fast she wants a transplant, too!

[paddbear0000]

Oh, she's not a friend, just an acquaintance from class! Thank goodness. I'd hate to have to drop her a**!

[vandie]

Holy crap!!
How on Earth can someone make a judgment like that?!?   I will tell you that from the day I was diagnosed, it was my goal, along with my neph and then the transplant center's, to get a preemptive transplant.  It happened for me on August 4, 2007.  
I had people I thought were on my side tell me I needed dialysis and soon.  I knew what was best for me and in the end I, along with my doctor's approval, made the best decision.      

It is unfathomable to think that an adult with ESRD won't appreciate or take care of their new kidney unless they experience dialysis.  

[kitkatz]

Drop her a** to the ground!   Go for the transplant as soon as possible. The longer you are on dialysis the poorer your chances of getting to a transplant, because of the medical things that can happen.

[Psim]

My neph, the folks at the Kidney Foundation and everyone at the transplant centre all told me it's way better to get a preemptive transplant, if you can. I was told it increases the odds of the transplant lasting longer. It's not like we'll totally miss out on the joys of dialysis forever </sarcasm>. We're just trying to put it off for awhile.

[cherpep]

My neph keeps saying that dialysis is just a bridge.  It's just a way to keep me alive until a transplant.  If you can find a way to get to the other side without using a bridge - more power to ya.

[petey]

paddbear -- I vote "Not selfish at all -- just logical, sensible, and smart."  If it's at all possible, go for the transplant before dialysis!  And, if you need any help "roughing" up that chick, let me know.  The way I see it, every transplant done means one less person on dialysis now or down the road, and, that, in my book, is a damn good thing!

[rose1999]

I'm 100% with Petey on this.

[bolta72]

You go for this and good luck.

[stauffenberg]

This issue has arisen in related form before.  If you decide to take a kidney for transplant from the extremely limited supply of cadaver organs available, you also implicitly choose to put your gain in health, vitality, and longevity ahead of someone else's, since the kidney you get is one that does not go to someone else on the waiting list.  This choice is selfish to the point of being murderous, since people die from having to wait too long for a transplant, so by taking the cadaver organ offered to you, you condemn those who have to continue waiting to possible death so that you can live.  Just because you have waited your turn until the kidney becomes available and is offered to you doesn't mean that your decision to accept that gift of life is not at the same time your free choice to let someone else run the risk of dying on dialysis because you get that kidney and they don't.

In situations where the survivors of a shipwreck have been living for weeks with a limited food supply in a rowboat on the open sea, stronger people have occasionally been willing to give up their assigned food ration for a day or two to help other weaker people survive with the extra food.  If we regard those people as heroic, saintly, and noble, what do we think of much stronger people, such as those who have never yet had to endure dialysis, taking a kidney while others who have languished on the machine for years have to continue with this inadequate therapy?  Only if you have a living donor who would not donate to anyone but you does your choice to take a kidney not deprive someone else of what may be a life-saving chance.

[KICKSTART]

I have to agree with Stauffenbergg on this one. But to be honest , will you get the choice? If you have someone willinmg to donate to you then great , i can fully understand that. But if you are waiting for a cadaver donation , then i dont even think you will get a choice , you will end up on dialysis , otherwise why would we have waiting lists ?

[KT0930]

If you have a living donor lined up, I say go for it. I had a living donor lined up for my second transplant (my dad), and we wanted to do a pre-emptive transplant. Unfortunately, because of a pharmacy mess-up, I ended up on dialysis for three months prior to the transplant. I was pretty disappointed, to say the least. If the option is available, take it without looking back!

If you have to go on the list, though, let's be realistic. Considering the wait in most areas of the country is several years and you can only get on the list once your kidney function declines to a certain level, the chances of getting a pre-emptive transplant through the list are slim to nil. So regardless of what you or others think about it, it's pretty much a moot point. Just my 

[Lori1851]

Thats how ignorant some people are hon. Hey I wish my son could have skipped dialysis. More power to ya if you can get a living donor!!!!
Lori/Indiana

[Jill D.]

My goal was to have a pre-emptive transplant; had my donor, had my surgery date scheduled, and days before surgery learned my PRA was 100%. Long story short, I finally had my surgery 16 months later, but did end up on dialysis for 8 months. I will say that at the time my first surgery was scheduled I kept wondering if the timing was right, as I still felt pretty good (my GFR was around 12) but I wasn't taking into account that I was on so many meds that I was anything but healthy. I was VERY SCARED of dialysis and had it in my head that being on dialysis would put me in the category of being a "sick" person (as if I hadn't been unhealthy up to this point - ha!)
As Psim mentioned, all of my docs said the same thing - a pre-emptive transplant was a good way to go if possible. However, do not put off dialysis if you need it just to have a pre-emptive transplant. You will be far healthier getting the toxins out of your blood on a regular basis and you will feel better as well. I had my fistula surgery 2 months after my originally scheduled transplant surgery and started dialysis 6 months after that. Within that time my GFR went from 12 to 6, and I felt like CRAP. Within a month I felt so much better and my energy level improved as well.
I say "go for it" - if insurance and doctors deem that your health status qualifies you for a transplant and you have a donor ready and willing, don't wait!!! 

[rookiegirl]

OMG! She just don't understand.  If you are so fortunate to get a transplant prior to dialysis, I say go for it.    If she comments more about this again, tell her to kiss your  

Sorry, I know that was mean.

[vandie]

My transplant was from a cadaveric donor.  I was on the list for almost two years, went through several potential donors being tested and luckily got a 6/6 match predialysis.   
I am honest when I say I did not hesitate to say "HELL YES" when I got the call.

Anything can happen.

[twirl]

no, if you get a kidney    take it
you are not selfish        you are lucky

no reason for the butt thing,,, just thought it was cute

[Adam_W]

Add me to the list of 100% NOT selfish. The fact is, the majority of patients on long term dialysis will have many other medical problems down the road, and if yo can get a transplant before having to deal with dialysis, then that's a good thing. This however is coming from a person who's NOT pushing for a transplant, and I've been on dialysis over a year. I'm not saying i like dialysis (I think it sucks big fat  ), but I just don't want a transplant right now because NxStage is 1000 times better than in-centre (for me at least). But that's another story. Paddbear, go for that transplant and like someone else said, tell that girl that she could gladly do dialysis instead.

Adam

[mariannas]

I would have given pretty much anything to have (another) preemptive transplant.  Unfortunately, it wasn't in the cards this time around.  I had my PD catheter put in in June of 07, but didn't actually start dialysis until October of '07.  I've been on the list since 4/20/07.  As of yet none of my donors have panned out and the hospital I'm listed at doesn't do plasmapharesis yet.  So...I have no choice.  I have to wait.  To be quite frank, there aren't many of us who get a choice in this matter so if you DO get the chance for a preemptive transplant...TAKE IT!

[lola]

Are you kidding? Run if the call comes and grab that kidney. We are soooooo wanting to get a transplant b-4 Dialysis for Otto he was on it once and did awful on it and never want to go through that again. I would never want ANYBODY on dialsys but I can't have it my way. And if you need me I'll come and give a little  to your co-worker.

[petey]

paddbear -- After reading one or two of the posts here on this thread, I thought maybe I had "jumped the gun" when I told you to go for a transplant before dialysis if you had the chance.  Since I'm not the one on dialysis, I went back and discussed your question with my Marvin (13-year ESRD patient).  Marvin has been on the waiting list twice -- the first time for 5 1/2 years (March of 1995 until July of 2000) and the second time now for 4 1/2 years (Oct. of 2003 until March 17, 2008 and still waiting); thus, he has actually had his name on the list for a total of ten years.  The transplant he did get in the middle was from a living donor (namely, me).  He did not have a chance to get a transplant pre-dialysis, as his ESRD was discovered and then four days later he started dialysis.

Here's my Marvin's take on your question (and, he was on his machine here at home when he discussed his feelings about it with me):  By all means, Marvin said, if you get the chance to have a transplant (living or cadaveric) before you have to go on dialysis, JUMP at the chance!!  Marvin then reached down and picked up his "lines" as his blood was pumping to and from his body through that machine and he said, "I wouldn't want anyone else to have to do this if they can avoid it."  Marvin said that he didn't agree with Stauffenberg; he said if you can get on the list for a cadaveric kidney transplant and can get a transplant before you have to start dialysis, you should take it and not feel remorse or guilt that you were taking someone else's potential kidney.

Marvin said he believes that when it's "your" time to get a kidney, it's your time.  He said, "If paddbear gets on the list and gets a kidney before I do, I certainly wouldn't begrudge her at all.  I would be happy for her.  It wouldn't be 'my' kidney that she was getting; it would be 'her' kidney.  It was her time and it was meant for her.  My time will come, but that was HER time."  (Marvin and I are Presbyterians by faith, and we believe that things happen -- or don't happen -- in our lives for a reason.  We also believe that God determines in HIS time when the events of our lives will occur.  I'm not saying this is right -- I'm just saying this is what we believe.)

So, there you have it, paddbear, from a man who wants desperately to get a kidney transplant, too.  Marvin says if you can get a transplant before starting dialysis, you should take it, appreciate it, take good care of it, and thank God above that you didn't have to walk the path he's been walking for so long now.

[Adam_W]

paddbear -- After reading one or two of the posts here on this thread, I thought maybe I had "jumped the gun" when I told you to go for a transplant before dialysis if you had the chance.  Since I'm not the one on dialysis, I went back and discussed your question with my Marvin (13-year ESRD patient).  Marvin has been on the waiting list twice -- the first time for 5 1/2 years (March of 1995 until July of 2000) and the second time now for 4 1/2 years (Oct. of 2003 until March 17, 2008 and still waiting); thus, he has actually had his name on the list for a total of ten years.  The transplant he did get in the middle was from a living donor (namely, me).  He did not have a chance to get a transplant pre-dialysis, as his ESRD was discovered and then four days later he started dialysis.

Here's my Marvin's take on your question (and, he was on his machine here at home when he discussed his feelings about it with me):  By all means, Marvin said, if you get the chance to have a transplant (living or cadaveric) before you have to go on dialysis, JUMP at the chance!!  Marvin then reached down and picked up his "lines" as his blood was pumping to and from his body through that machine and he said, "I wouldn't want anyone else to have to do this if they can avoid it."  Marvin said that he didn't agree with Stauffenberg; he said if you can get on the list for a cadaveric kidney transplant and can get a transplant before you have to start dialysis, you should take it and not feel remorse or guilt that you were taking someone else's potential kidney.

Marvin said he believes that when it's "your" time to get a kidney, it's your time.  He said, "If paddbear gets on the list and gets a kidney before I do, I certainly wouldn't begrudge her at all.  I would be happy for her.  It wouldn't be 'my' kidney that she was getting; it would be 'her' kidney.  It was her time and it was meant for her.  My time will come, but that was HER time."  (Marvin and I are Presbyterians by faith, and we believe that things happen -- or don't happen -- in our lives for a reason.  We also believe that God determines in HIS time when the events of our lives will occur.  I'm not saying this is right -- I'm just saying this is what we believe.)

So, there you have it, paddbear, from a man who wants desperately to get a kidney transplant, too.  Marvin says if you can get a transplant before starting dialysis, you should take it, appreciate it, take good care of it, and thank God above that you didn't have to walk the path he's been walking for so long now.

Very well said