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Author Topic: Transplant Question  (Read 3203 times)
George Jung
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« on: June 14, 2007, 01:17:47 PM »

Is a person limited to how many transplants they can have? 
If the treatment only lasts several years each time do they do the procedure as often as possible? 
Is a person with a failed transplant higher prioritized than one that is beginning dialysis?
How common is it for someone to have multiple transplants done?
Is there financial strain with multiple transplantation?
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Rerun
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2007, 02:09:12 PM »

I can answer one of your questions.

There is NO priority given to you if you are needing a second transplant.  In a way I agree with this but in a way I was dong great and being a great big tax payer.  They lost that when they put me back on dialysis.  Not a good financial decision for any of us.
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okarol
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2007, 03:06:42 PM »

Here's my attempt:
Is a person limited to how many transplants they can have? - Technically no - but your health, availability of donors, and PRA may be factors
If the treatment only lasts several years each time do they do the procedure as often as possible? - Some last 2 years, some 30, so it's as needed, and as available
Is a person with a failed transplant higher prioritized than one that is beginning dialysis? No - but as Rerun said, it would be great if they could keep someone working
How common is it for someone to have multiple transplants done? I know a few people who have had 3, but none that have had 4
Is there financial strain with multiple transplantation? Medicare and medical will pay for most of Jenna's transplant. She needs to have a job that provides insurance within 3 years when the Medicare ends, or she will have to pay out-of-pockets for the meds. That's true after each dialysis/transplant/dialysis/transplant cycle, I believe?
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
st789
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2007, 03:36:59 PM »

Very good multiple questions.

Very informative answers.

It would be in the best interest of the government that the recipients keep the transplanted organ as long as possible right.

If the recipient Medicare expires after 3 yrs and the job doesn't provide benefits then what to do?
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andrea
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2007, 07:01:57 AM »

Several of our patients are transplant recipients who couldn't afford their immunosuppressives after Medicare stopped paying.

There is a piece of legislature being introduced right now that would extend Medicare coverage for the life of the transplant. To me, that's a no-brainer - it's much cheaper to pay for the drugs than to pay for years of dialysis. But for some reason the government hasn't caught up with that concept yet. I'm keeping my fingers crossed....
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"Treat people as if they are what they ought to be and you help them become what they are capable of being."  --Goethe
stauffenberg
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2007, 10:14:01 AM »

Since a kidney from a cadaver lasts on average about 12 years, and one from a living donor survives about twice as long, many younger patients will need several transplants over their lifespan.  Each transplant, however, increases the number of pre-formed antibodies the patient has to new kidneys being implanted, and this means that each successive transplant becomes much more difficult, since the chances of acute rejection will be much higher.  The way around this is to do cross-matching tests to ensure that the antibodies are not directed against the donor kidney, but this vastly reduces the number of kidneys suitable for transplant for the patient.  A person getting a first transplant will usually have pre-formed antibodies against only 2% of the potential kidney donors, but one getting a second transplant can have antibodies against 80% of potential donors, to give you an idea of how the odds of getting a good match go down.  Another way to try to overcome the problem of pre-formed antibodies is to subject the transplant recipient to a massive, toxic, and dangerous immunosuppression right at the moment of transplant, usually involving the use of anti-CD molecules, which can cause a high risk of lethal cancer within a decade.  Thus for each successive transplant you need, the range of organs that are suitable for you gets smaller, the chances of rejecting it get higher, and the immunosuppression gets more toxic.  These factors mean that it is usually possible for a patient to have no more than three transplants in a lifetime, because by then the pre-formed antibody defenses are too great to overcome.
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st789
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2007, 04:52:10 PM »

Wow.....
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George Jung
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2007, 05:17:34 PM »

Seems like a living donor would be a prime decision if there would be an opportunity.  If you are going to do it, DO IT right.  I am second guessing accepting someone I know to donate to me so I can appreciate the percentages.  I don't believe, as of now, that I would have a second operation performed.  I would love to get another 25 years but I most likely be one and done.  Who knows what by then (25 yrs) but for now I wouldn't have a second transplant.  I wouldn't have another one if I rejected it a year or two from now.  I don't think there would be a kidney that would survive for me, and someone else would hopefully have a chance.
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George Jung
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2007, 09:03:42 AM »

Can a person designate the recipient to whom they wish to receive their kidney(s) upon death?
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okarol
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2007, 09:28:06 AM »

Can a person designate the recipient to whom they wish to receive their kidney(s) upon death?

I believe it is legal (here's an example - see page 3 www.courttv.com/news/organ-donors/docs/nyslaw.pdf).
The problem is that someone has to die with the specific set of circumstances that make them eligible to donate; typically a stroke or accidental injury resulting in brain death.
They also have to have named the recipient in their will (although there may be exceptions.) It rarely happens, but it's possible.
There was a case where a New York family had designated a recipient for their loved ones kidney after he had a brain aneurysm. The kidney was removed from the donor, but upon inspection just prior to implantation, it was found to be damaged. The recipient requested the other kidney to be made available, but it had already been given to another patient. There was a lawsuit - here's the story from http://www.reason.com/news/printer/117539.html --

Who Owns Your Organs?

So You Can't Sell Your Kidneys. Can You Give Them Away?


Kerry Howley | December 29, 2006

You’re dying of kidney failure, and your wife is dying of massive injuries sustained during a car crash. Just as she passes away, she tells you to take her kidneys after she is gone. She dies. Are the kidneys yours?

Two weeks back, New York's Court of Appeals said “no.” The court was adjudicating the strange case of Peter Lucia, who never got to see the legal turmoil his kidneys would cause. Lucia suffered a stroke in 2002, and his wife Debra found him brain dead on the floor of the family den. The two had never discussed organ donation, but Debra did what she thought Peter would have wanted. Peter’s lifelong friend, Robert Colavito, was suffering from renal disease and would die shortly without a transplant. She gave him Peter’s kidneys.

Americans have no choice but to donate through an organization; it is illegal to exchange kidneys privately, and the federal government has designated an organ procurement organization for every American locality. The New York Organ Donor Network is the organization with a monopoly on Long Island organs, and that’s who Debra worked with. The Network helped her with the paperwork, and Peter’s left kidney was air-lifted to Florida, where Colavito waited.

As Colavito lay in the hospital, prepped for surgery, a nurse told him to “wait five minutes.” A doctor returned with the news that the kidney was damaged and unusable. Lucia called the New York Donor Network and asked where her husband’s second kidney was; she had expected that both would go Colavito. The agency explained that it had given away the organ, and it was being transplanted into someone else at that very moment. (As it turns out, the organization was either lying or mistaken: The kidney wouldn’t be transplanted for three more days.)

Colavito never found a suitable kidney, and he died last June. But before succumbing to disease, he filed a highly controversial lawsuit against the New York Donor Network. He accused the organization of appropriating his property—of stealing, in effect, his kidney.

In March of 2005, U.S. District Court Judge Dora L. Irizarry dismissed the case, writing that while courts may recognize a spouse’s ‘quasi-property right” in human remains, that right “encompasses only the power to ensure that the corpse is orderly handled and laid to rest, nothing more.” Colavito appealed, and in mid-December, The New York Court of Appeals agreed that he had no legal claim on the kidney. The court quoted centuries old common law in its decision, ultimately ruling that Colavito “has no common law right to the organ.” The New York Donors Network could not have stolen Colavito’s kidney, because Colavito never owned it. Debra Lucia thought she had given Colavito the kidneys, but they weren’t hers—or her husband’s—to give.

So can you give your spouse a kidney after you die? It depends. As it turns out, Lucia’s kidney were useless to Colavito—the two weren’t compatible. (Lucia says she never would have consented to the kidneys’ removal had she been informed that Colavito couldn’t use them.) Colavito had also sued under a New York public health law that allows directed donation and applies absent a property right, and he might have won had the kidney been a match. But the court was adamant that even if it were to decide that Colavito had been wronged, it wouldn’t be because he owned the organ.

The Colavito case is just one more manifestation of the increasingly bizarre proprietary status of human body parts. Every corpse has a legal value of zero, but transplantable organs and tissues grow more valuable every day. Body parts aren’t legal property to the people born with them, but can be distributed by doctors, universities, biotech companies, and procurement agencies for profit or otherwise.

Courts and legislatures typically link their resistance to corporeal property rights with the supposedly corrupting power of markets. A legal regime that gives Debra Lucia the right to gift her husband’s organs might well give her the right to sell them. As the amicus brief filed by the United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) and others put it “The laws and regulations surrounding deceased organ donation, allocation and transplantation have purposefully established a legal infrastructure that excludes property law concepts....Instead, organs are donated for transplantation voluntarily (not sold or appropriated) and are regulated as a scarce national resource.”

The culture that has evolved in support of organ donation in the United States is heavily invested in a narrative of gift exchange, and property rights are perceived as contrary to that narrative. But as the Colavito case dramatically demonstrates, if organs are gifts, they are gifts of a bizarre kind. The United Anatomical Gift Act designates to whom the gift can be given (typically organ procurement agencies) and for what purposes (therapy, education, or research.) A gift is a transfer of property, but with the status of the body as property in flux, the ability to gift is severely curtailed.

Perhaps that goes some way in explaining why the pathetically inadequate rise in organ donation hasn’t kept pace with the spike in charity of all sorts. Nearly 300,000 new charities popped up in the years between 1996 and 2004, a number that underscores both a willingness to give and, more to the point, the way people want to give. Giving has become democratized and decentralized. Charities have splintered and succeeded because givers have individualized ideas of who they want to help. That individuals instead of elites decide who benefits may be disturbing to some, but trends in donation indicate that people give more when they have control over who is getting it.

By contrast, organ donation stands as a sort of command economy of gifting: Donors have little say over where their organs go after they die, and procurement professionals prefer that donations simply go to the centralized donor list compiled by the UNOS. Anonymous donations are prized as pure, but run contrary to the sort of relationship-building that motivates cultures of gifting in the first place.

The New York Organ Donor Network assures that in fighting ownership rights, it is preventing the emergence of a system no one wants. Skeptics might ask what the absence of those rights means within system we already have. As Debra Lucia asked the Long Island Press last year, “Is it a donation or a confiscation?”

Kerry Howley is an associate editor of reason.
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« Last Edit: July 05, 2007, 01:48:32 PM by okarol » Logged


Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
stauffenberg
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2007, 01:54:17 PM »

According to the medical definition of an organ, human blood qualifies as an organ.  Since some states permit people to sell their blood so that it may be used in medical procedures, when you agree to sit down in a blood donor clinic and have your blood taken in exchange for money, you are making a legal contract to sell something you don't own -- at least according to the reasoning the law applies to other organs.  But for a valid contract there has to be consideration, that is, something of value which is exchanged for something else by a person who has good title to what is handed over, so in paid blood donation there cannot possibly be a valid contract!
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