Any tricks to short-circuit a muscle cramp?

[kickingandscreaming]

I do PD so injecting saline as they do in HD isn't applicable.  I have been getting some wicked cramping in my legs (in various muscle groups) and some strange cramping in my hands that bends my index finger into a claw shape.  I can't control when it happens.  I asked my nephro if maybe I need to eat more salt and she said my sodium is fine (as is my phosphorus and calcium).  Sometimes the after effects of leg cramping is that I feel for day as if I just ran the marathon (I didn't ).

Does anyone have any good ideas about how to stop a cramp in its tracks?  Thanks for any ideas.

[Charlie B53]

I used to be a monster, surprisingly strong and VERY physically active.  After I hurt my back I couldn't walk for almost two years.  You can imagine how soft I've become.

Retiring from work for physical reasons then my kidneys finally getting to the point I had to start PD I became even weaker.  I'm a punk now.

So when I do have those 'better' days I get out in the yard and do all the things that have been put off for far too long.  Like today.  I had a pretty good day.  Got my trusty weed wacker out and put the chainsaw-on-a-stick on it and got busy trimming bushes.  I had to go slow and stop and wait for the circulation to catch up in my legs a number of times.  But I got a LOT done.

But I will pay dearly for it tonight.

When the leg cramps come I HAVE TO get up and on my feet.   No ifs, ands, or buts about it.  If I don't they will just get worse.  Then I slowly walk about the house.  Go out in the garage and have a cigarette, as I haven't smoked in the house for over 30 years.

If the cramps are particularly bad I will take 2 aspirin to help thin the blood,  two big acetaminophen for the pain, and a half of the big muscle relaxers I have on hand for when I really need them.  Between the three meds and 20 minutes, I can lay down and go back to sleep.

Dr's used to prescribe quinine capsules.  They quit that a long time ago.  Some people clalilm quinine water helps them..I don't see how, there is very little of the drug in the water.

Aspirin is a great blood thinner and highly recommended as the first thing everyone should take if suspected heart attack or stroke.  I had to quit taking it regularly as my blood thinned way too much.  I was bruising far too easy and bled terribly, it was very difficult to clog.  So now I only reach for it when I get night-time cramps.

[Fabkiwi06]

How is your potassium? My grandmother used to always advise to "eat a banana" whenever I would get foot cramps - and I've noticed when I'm lower on potassium on dialysis I tend to cramp more.

[Deanne]

Tonic water (quinine water) instantly stopped the cramps for me. I don't think it takes very much. I had terrible cramps and as soon as I started drinking just a bit of it before bed, the cramps were gone. I ran out for a while and the cramps came back. As soon as I started drinking it again, the cramps were gone again.

[Charlie B53]

Told you I would end up 'paying for' having a good day in the yard.   2:30 a.m. a calf woke me up.

This is the price we pay for living too sedentary of lives.   Those days we are more active and though we don't realize we are doing it, we are abusing muscles that are NOT used to being so active.

Looking at it a bit differently.   Yesterday I drank TWO 32 oz cups of ice water.  Kept it in the kitchen and every once in a while I would come in, gulp a few mouthfuls and head back out.   I must have sweated far more than I thought.  I was never soaked, but lightly dampened.  I was surprised when I stepped on the scale to learn I had only gained .2 for the day!


Potassium is a good thing to keep track of.  I don't as I take supplements and my team is always telling me to eat more.   I should think about having a banana every day.  I have tried but just don't have the appetite for them much.  I may have one a day for a few days, then won't touch one again for seemingly months.   Not much monkey blood left in me I guess.

I also have a Diebetic Dietician at the VA.  She drills into me how bananas are TWO servings, I should NEVER eat a whole one.  Yea, Right.  As IF I would only eat half.   Get real.  I am not a little person with a little stomach.

Finger cramps are funny.   It's like they have a mind of their own.  I had them again the other night at dinner.   All was well until I wanted to turn my fork a little differently.  The fingers just wouldn't work that way.  I had to laugh at the time.   I laugh a really STUPID laugh while in pain.   It took a few minutes of finger stretches and flex-type movements before they loosened up.   Not much you can do sitting in the Vietnamese Restaurant.

[kickingandscreaming]

How is your potassium?

My potassium is perfect.  Right in the middle of normal range.

Tonic water (quinine water) instantly stopped the cramps for me.

Interesting. A friend also mentioned quinine.  I wonder why it works.  Some people recommend eating a slice of pickle.  I don't know about that.

[Charlie B53]

I eat too many pickles, the salt makes me hold more water.

Those Bred and Butter are GOOD.  We keep a BIG jar on the counter next to the sink just so we don't have to pull it out of the fridge all the time!

Ever lay them on a Peanut Butter Sandwich?   Tony the Tiger said it best.   They're GREAT!!!!

[cassandra]

When I'm having cramps I have a mug of cup-a-soup. I think it's the salt, the Monosodium glutamate. Works virtually everytime

[Jean]

Quinine water works for me, but it tastes nasty. Wal mart carries a product called leg cramps ( clever, huh?) A tiny bottle of water by the bed and one pill and the cramps are gone!!! Neph approved, of course.

[Simon Dog]

dorsiflex

[hatedialysis2]

magnesium oil spray works wonders for me.  It stops the cramps in 5 minutes.   It is sprayed topically so it goes directly into the cell and muscles where its needed as opposed to  taking it in oral forms which very little of it get absorbed unless you are taking it in pico ionic form.   You can check with your doctor for clearance as magnesium supplementation is contraindicated (like potassium and phosphorus) for CKD.   4 sprays will give you about 60mg of magnesium, its written on the bottle.   The DV for magnesium is 400.    I've stopped heart palps with this oil, by the time I got to the hospital the palps stopped and the EKG and tests came normal!   

One last note, magnesium is deficient in our soils and consequently our foods.   One of the many functions of magnesium is that it relaxes the muscles, while calcium contracts, so you constantly need the right ratios .   

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Thank you all. Some interesting ideas. I'm open to more.  I'm dorsiflexing as we speak.  Wish I had some magnesium oil.

[Charlie B53]

I am a 'Guy' and such kind of easily confused.    I have a solid bar of magnesium in my toolbox.  I got it intending to put it into my outdoors camping stuff as an instant firestarter in wet conditions.    Scrap of very fine shavings, touch with a match and INSTANT HOT FIRE, hot enough to ignite wet wood.

Magnesium SALTS, those molecoles that have oxidized and literally flaked off small enough so to be water or oil soluble.  I would think labs well developed enough to measure the amount within our body so Dr's can make an educated decision as to whether we need MORE or LESS in our diet.

Is there any home tests we can do to give us a better indicator whether we need this mineral?

[hatedialysis2]

A hair analysis test will give you that info as well as the ratios of other minerals and trace minerals.  It costs about $95 last time I purchased.  Insurance does not pay for it.  Other than tat you can ask your doctor for an RBC magnesium test which is a true measure of magnesium deficiency.  Most doctors just test for serum magnesium .

[PrimeTimer]

I'm not a kidney patient or on dialysis but my husband's clinic taught us a little tonic water with quinine helps...and it does so very quickly. Only need about half a glass full, maybe two for the thighs and within seconds you should feel relief. I try to stay hydrated AND take in plenty of water, potassium and eat plenty of pecans with icecream everyday to avoid the nauseau I'd get from tonic water. But if I have to have the tonic water then okay, it's a blessing because it works so fast. 

[justagirl2325]

Those Bred and Butter are GOOD.  We keep a BIG jar on the counter next to the sink just so we don't have to pull it out of the fridge all the time!

Ever lay them on a Peanut Butter Sandwich?   Tony the Tiger said it best.   They're GREAT!!!!

I'm sorry, did I understand that you eat peanut butter & pickle sandwiches?  Haha, gross.

[Charlie B53]

Those Bred and Butter are GOOD.  We keep a BIG jar on the counter next to the sink just so we don't have to pull it out of the fridge all the time!

Ever lay them on a Peanut Butter Sandwich?   Tony the Tiger said it best.   They're GREAT!!!!

I'm sorry, did I understand that you eat peanut butter & pickle sandwiches?  Haha, gross.

Ha!    You probably never lay Doritos on a sandwich either!

You may have had a deprived childhood and never learned to experiment with your food.

You may be greatly surprised how good some combinations are.

Cheerios and OJ?    Different, but not bad.

Peas on mashed potatoes, or corn, even green beans.   Add another contrasting texture and taste that add and compliment each other.

Hot green beans sprinkled over a cold salad?

Who says your plate and food have to be boringly plain?   Make it your own and find what you like.

[Rerun]

Yep, Tonic Water.  About 1/4 to 1/2 cup a day keeps the cramps away.

[Jean]

Peanut butter and pickles?? MMMMMM, NAH!!!! However, peanut butter, mayonnaise and sliced cucumber, OH BOY!!!!

[kickingandscreaming]

I drank a whole can of tonic water yesterday and had the worst cramps ever last night.  I'll keep trying.

[Charlie B53]

Peanut butter and pickles?? MMMMMM, NAH!!!! However, peanut butter, mayonnaise and sliced cucumber, OH BOY!!!!

Wife and Daughter love Cukes.   Me, not so much.

[hatedialysis2]

i don't know anything about quinine and not a fan of tonic water.  It was interesting to see on quinine from the FDA
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ForHealthProfessionals/LearningActivities/UCM317816.pdf

[kickingandscreaming]

Yes. I saw that too.  But I figure the amount of quinine in tonic water is probably infinitesmal.  Not enough to do harm.  Probably not enough to do good either.

[iolaire]

i don't know anything about quinine and not a fan of tonic water.  It was interesting to see on quinine from the FDA
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ForHealthProfessionals/LearningActivities/UCM317816.pdf

The important thing there is that is using "raw" quinine In 2011, an estimated 51,800 patients received a dispensed prescription for quinine from U.S. outpatient retail pharmacies..  I personally don't think the quinine found in tonic is that bad.  There are quite a few people that drink a lot of that style of tonic daily... it has to be way less than some sort of pharmaceutical product...

[hatedialysis2]

Yes. I saw that too.  But I figure the amount of quinine in tonic water is probably infinitesmal.  Not enough to do harm.  Probably not enough to do good either.

True, but I wish there was more information about quinine with regards to safe Upper limits.