Ache, pains and joint stiffness?

[kristina]

Hello,
Does anyone share this similar problem and has ideas on how to make it easier?
I have been having a problem with my back and problems with moving my feet up and down (not my legs)
and I am just wondering what this could be related to; could it be related to dialysis and having to lie down for 4+ hours ?
I also wake up in the mornings quite often feeling my joints are stiff and could this be related to the dialysis-sessions I have in the evenings before?
What could be done about it? Are there any known exercises to help manage this problem?
Many thanks from Kristina.

[cassandra]

I feel like that when my bicarb is low to normal. What is yours? Normal is 22-26

Love, Cas

[kickingandscreaming]

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to hemo.  But during the 2 months (in center) that I did hemo, I didn't feel what you are feeling, but I did feel as though the process itself is a depleting one.  It takes out lots of stuff you want to get rid of and it also takes out a lot of stuff you need to retain (not just protein).  I think hemo (and all dialysis) is still a very blunt instrument that has a lot of unintended consequences.

Inflammation is a major issue in CKD and Dialysis.  And so is malnutrition.  Especially of high quality protein.  I know, from reading your posts, that you are vegetarian.  I'm wondering if you're getting enough quality protein in your diet.  That could increase inflammation.

Hemodialysis patients who have catheters for their dialysis access are at a greater risk for inflammation.

https://www.davita.com/kidney-disease/overview/symptoms-and-diagnosis/inflammation-and-chronic-kidney-disease/e/4735

I take curcumin daily (the active ingredient in turmeric).  It is very well known as an ant-inflammatory.  By itself it isn't very bio-available. so it is often combined with other substances to make it bio-available.

Have you noticed pain or stiffness in your legs? Is a short walk to the bathroom starting to feel like a chore? Maybe you’re beginning to trip over your own feet or walk with a slight limp. Swelling of the ankles could be the culprit.People with kidney disease, especially people on dialysis, are prone to develop swelling of the ankles due to fluid retention. Swelling not only causes joint stiffness, but it can often lead to pain as well. And when your ankles are swollen, the mobility of those joints can be compromised, which in turn can impair your ability to walk.

One of my patients came in and complained that her left hip was hurting. I soon discovered that her right ankle was very stiff and didn’t have full mobility. As a result, she was compensating by putting more pressure on her left hip as she walked. Her gait was abnormal, with her left hip rotating up slightly and causing pain in the other hip. Whenever your gait is abnormal, it will usually lead to pain somewhere in the body.I’ve been working with her on a series of stretches and exercises (some of which I will explain later), and I encourage her to always wear shoes with good support.What to Look ForThe easiest way to tell whether your ankle is swollen is to compare one against the other. When swelling in both ankles is suspected, a simple test can indicate how severe the problem is. Apply moderate pressure with your thumb to the swollen area.

If an indentation is left behind, a form of swelling called pitting edema is present. And if the indentation doesn’t go away after 30 seconds, the amount of swelling is significant.Other signs to look for include not fitting into your shoes any longer and losing the ability to flex your ankle to a normal range.  Also, you may notice that your ankles are swollen before dialysis or after you’ve been standing or walking for a while. The fluid around the joint makes it hard to improve the mobility of your ankle when swelling is present, so exercises and stretches should be performed when the swelling is down.

Limiting the SwellingFortunately, there are several things you can do to help limit swelling. The most direct method involves controlling your salt intake, adhering to your daily fluid allowance, taking diuretics, and keeping your feet up. But one of the most effective ways to address swelling and stiffness simultaneously is to exercise and stay activThe simple exercises illustrated on the following page, when performed safely and consistently, can limit swelling and improve your mobility at the same time.

http://www.rsnhope.org/health-library/article-index/keep-a-spring-in-your-step/

The article continues with some exercise suggestions.  Good luck.

[kristina]

Many thanks for your kind thoughts and suggestions, cassandra and kickingandscreaming, it is very much appreciated.
My nephrologist has told me that my bloodtests are alright and there is also no indication of an inflammation or swelling
and I am at a loss to know about the cause of these symptoms ... I shall try the suggested exercises and hopefully they are helpful.
Many thanks again from Kristina.

[Charlie B53]

General inflammation of a body or portion thereof can be a difficult diagnosis.  Many types of joint pain can be related to inflammation that is not readily apparent in the usual blood tests other than a very slightly elevated white count.  Only slightly higher than what is normal but no where near high enough to give cause for alarm.

I had a sore on my calf that was very slow to heal, part of the area around this was a bit reddened, but no where near cause for alarm, NO infection in or around the wound.  It was a local area inflammation and did show only a slight rise in my white count.

A small change in wound treatment and daily low dose (5MG) prednisone cleared the redness from the area.  The wound healed, my white count returned to normal.

Difficulty in range of motion can be cause by many things.  Most common is simple lack of use.  But if it becomes painful with movement it may be wise to have it looked at just to be sure.   Mine turned out to be acidic crystals forming.  A combination of gout (uric acid) and psuedo gout (Calcium )  That time required dietary change to reduce  I'll remember the word later.  An element more common in crustations, smoked foods.  Beer, I think, but I don't drink that but rarely.

[kitkatz]

I am also feeling more aches and pains lately especially the days after dialysis which feels like every day right now.
My shoulders ache constantly. 
I know I am no help right now.  Looking for answers myself.

[Vt Big Rig]

I have ABSOLUTELY no medical training or evidence this is true but .....

The engineer in me believes that since we are pulling fluid off our bodies, that on occasion that fluid comes from fluid that surrounds our joints ( I think it is called synovial fluid). This particularly happens when when "challenge" the amount of fluid taken off. Then my joints are sore, especially my damaged knee.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Charlie B53]

I think most people have a pretty good understanding of 'the Bends'.  In divers how the concentration of nitrogen in the blood raises with the increasing pressure of depth in the water.  And how as that pressure is reduced when surfacing this higher concentration of nitrogen actually boils of from it's  liquid state to form 'bubbles' within the blood vessels, and flesh, causing Excruciating pain, and often death if not re-pressurized in a timely manner.

Our bones and teeth are formed of small particles of bone which if looked at close enough somewhat resemble fluid filled building blocks.  Normally not a problem, however in many people that have injured, bruised, or broken bones, especially those within joints, and many of those persons with forms of arthritis, the hard walls of these bony cells seal over and lose the ability to equalize to the air pressure changes normally occurring in weather/altitude.  Sort of like how your ears 'pop' with pressure changes.  These damaged areas of bane lose that.  Instead of conforming as the rest of the bone does it screams out in PAIN.

Sudden weather changes can be the worst, often taking days before these painful areas conform and the pain diminishes.

As far as I know there is NO cures.

All I know is that many times I can 'feel' these pressure changes sometimes days before the weather actually arrives.  As far as three days before, clear days, I'll be getting painful, once the rain finally arrives the pain begins to fade within a day.   

[PrimeTimer]

I'm a human barometer. My bones ache just before sudden weather changes, especially if it's going to rain or ahead of a cold front. I have Fibromyalgia, which involves connective tissue and my entire body. Rheumatologist told me it is often worse than having rheumatoid arthritis because rather than affecting just certain areas one at a time for instance, knees, knuckles or elbows, the pain is felt thruout the entire body all at once only without the presence of inflammation. And yet it feels as tho you've got the flu only 1,0000 worse. It can be brought on by prolonged stress. If I sit for too long, I hurt. If I'm up moving around for too long, I hurt. Sometimes just touching my skin hurts. It's a gnawing pain day in and day out and sometimes I actually catch myself clenching my teeth. I would not be surprised if people on dialysis have Fibromyalgia from having to sit/recline in a chair for hours on end but also from being under pressure and tensed up. Aside from heating pads, the trick is to stay mobile and pace yourself and not overdo any activity. Kind of hard for those having to do dialysis. I feel for you. That's why I try to make my husband as comfortable as possible and get him whatever he needs or asks for during his home hemo treatments. I start aching but he's the one stuck in a chair with needles in his arm so...

[Charlie B53]

Finally remembered that word I could not think of the other day...   PURINES, found in many foods but the animal based are far more lickly to cause problems in humans, raising uric acid levels to where crystals form in the synovail fluid of the joints.  Ouch!

Made hame and beans yesterday.  It was GOOD, and I was hungry, all afternoon, and evening.  I kept getting into it. 

I will be paying for that, maybe for DAYS.  Base of the index fingers and thumbs, BOTH hands, can hardly hold anything.

And of course Dr won't give me anything for pain as I am already on the patch.  Which isn't near big enough.

And I also forgot to take my binders so I am sure my phos is also up right now.   Little over two weeks before my next Clinic and labs.  I should be 'normal' long before then.   I'm sending the left-overs home with Son so I can't get into them.

[kickingandscreaming]

Purines are at the root of gout which is a special case of joint pain but pretty common in folks with high uric acid.  Doubt that's what Kristina has since she's a vegetarian.

[kristina]

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments Charlie53, kitkatz, Vt Big Rig, Prime Timer and Kickingandscreamin.
Your kindness in sharing your experiences is very much appreciated. In my desperation I started an experiment by wearing kidney-friendly shoes
(shoes with Velcro-fasteners that allow for the swelling of my feet and/or my ankles) and today I have already noticed an improvement.
The shoes I usually have been wearing were a clog-like-shoe which is of a material structure rather unforgiving and did not expand sufficiently
and I think therefore the pressure that was being created on my slightly swollen feet may have caused the pain.
Many thanks again from Kristina.

[PrimeTimer]

kristina, I hope your new shoes with the velcro straps help you. I think they will. I wear those kind too to help my feet but also makes it easier on my hands and fingers. I also use a shoe horn with an extra long handle to help my feet slide into shoes without having to bend too far over. That helps my back. If I wear shoes with laces, I only tie them loosely so they are not too tight and leave them tied, sliding out of them to take them off and then use the shoe horn to slide back into them. I use to wear more stylish shoes but I finally decided that comfort is more important and safer. And I figure if I "feel better" then maybe I will "look better". Hope your aches and pains ease up and soon!

[Charlie B53]

Shoes make all the difference in the world.

I have a 'spur', a bony growth on the rear bottom of my heel pointing down and forward.  It got so bad I couldn't put any pressure on that heel standing.  No way could I walk and let it touch down.

Dr told me they do not bother to cut them out as most people it never eases their pain.  He sent me to a shoe specialist who had me stand on a foam brick that molded to the perfect contours of my feet.  Weeks later I picked up my new shoes with these custom inserts.  Within days the pain was totally GONE.  That's been years now.  Sure made a believer out of me!

[kristina]

Many thanks again PrimeTimer and Charlie53.
My feet are already much, much better and it is amazing to experience
damage caused by nothing else but by wearing the wrong shoes !!!
Many thanks again from Kristina.

[kickingandscreaming]

I am also a true believer in good shoes.  I've had 2 foot issues in the past .  The first was plantar fasciitis that was triggered by wearing sneakers with a last that was too narrow for my feet.  I could barely walk for months.  Then got sneaks with a wider toe bed and my feet were allowed to heal.  Second time was a horrible "growth" that pressed against a nerve in between 2 toes (Morton's Neuroma).  Every step was like walking on a small stone.  Once again, it was a matter of getting wider shoes that didn't scrunch my toes together in an unnatural way.  Now I wear only Crocs in the "relaxed" sizing and haven't heard a peep from the neuroma in years.  Shoes can really make or break your feet.  And if your feet aren't happy, it's hard for you to be happy.

[Charlie B53]

No doubt that shoes make the difference.

And yet we still see so many women in the workplace, and elsewhere, squeezing their feet into those pointy toed heels!  Somehow society has brainwashed them that they MUST wear these torture devises which cause so much deformity and lasting pain.

When will they learn?

[Michael Murphy]

After 5 surgeries on my knees they are really bad.  When bothering me it's tough to go up or down stairs.  What helps is Advil but as a dialysis patient with some remaining kidney function I can't take it any more.  But I am 65 if not for the pain how would I know I am alive.  The orthopedist wants to replace both knees but I was kinda hoping to go out with my original equipment.  So Tylenol and I are just trying to keep going.  The one advise I can give is to avoid hard soul shoes wear shoes that provide some cushioning and gel inserts to reduce impact on your joints.  Two fingers of Scotch also helps.

[Charlie B53]

.................wo fingers of Scotch also helps.

lol

Ear had half my head pounding so hard I actually reached up  in that cupboard and got down that old bottle of Glenlevit. (sp?)

Tasted like sick water.  I'm afraid it is so old all the alky evaporated through the cork leaving only dirty water behind.  And it didn't help the pain a bit.


Next time I'll be sure to grab the tequila or vodka.  One of them has to have some alky left in it.

They all are nearing 20 years old.  I quit getting into them  long ago.

[Fabkiwi06]

When I was in hemo, I always felt achy after. I started doing gentle yoga stretches on my in-between days and it helped some. There are some good tutorials on YouTube.

[kristina]

Many thanks kickingandscreaming, Charlie B53, Michael Murphy and Fabkiwi06 for kindly sharing your experiences,
it is very much appreciated ...  Having started to wear "cosy-feet"-shoes with Velcro-fasteners which allow for the swelling of my feet and/or my ankles
helps already quite a lot and I shall also have a look on "youtube" about those gentle yoga stretches. It really looks like a very good idea !
Many thanks again from Kristina.