Health or True Love?

[rsudock]

My boy and I were just talking about this tonight and he said to me, "Are you going to ask  your IHD friends about this?" And I said, "Yeah!!!"

OK anyway if you had to choose a life with true love but you u would be sick always, or a life without love but you would live without ESRD, what would you choose?

Just wondering...

xo,
R

[Desert Dancer]

My healthiest years were spent married to an abusive man and I was as miserable as a person can be. Now I'm not so healthy (understatement?) but I am blissfully married to a loving and gentle man.

I'll have to go with true love. 

[RichardMEL]

I sort of don't like these absolute "either one or the other" questions which are purely theroetical in nature and don't really relate to real life because as we all know you can have situations of being sick and having true love (look at any number of examples right here), or being healthy and never finding true love, and any and all various combinations in between.

I already know some folks reading this would want to tell me that having ESRD (or similar chronic condition) makes finding love that much harder, but I counter that that's a different issue - because surely "true" love is one that doesn't discriminate based on one's health, location, etc.

Anyway I suppose I will try and anwer this one as best I can. It's quite difficult really because the way I see it is that while you don't *need* true love to live, and good health ensures living - it's just not that simple, because what's a life lived without love? Is there still meaning? Perhaps someone like Mr Burns might think so, but for us normal people with hearts and feelings and needs (I'm talking emotional here all you people who think I've gone to the gutter!!  ) that swings the argument back the other way.

Also I think our audience is a little biased - because most of us are living with kidney failure and have found love to various degrees(or not) so our opinions are biased by our situation. If we were so-called "normal" people without a chronic condition like ours, the question may get different answers/opinions.

I suppose a simple way to look at it is that it becomes  a question of "quality" vs. "quantity" of life - as in, if you have health but not love, you'll live longer (eg: quantity) yet having that love would be "quality" - but WAIT because one's quality of life is going to be impacted pretty heavily by a chronic disease like ours - so where do you draw the line?

Am I over thinking this? probably? Do I need a girlfriend? yes, absolutely!! 

I think my answer would have to come down on the side of "love" - because while I firmly believe one's health is the most important thing in life, what's the point of living well, having money etc if you don't have anyone special in your life to share it with? So, i'd rather live a short time and enjoy it with someone special, than zip along alone.

right now though I've probably got the shorter life alone. damn!! 

[Jie]

I guess one can choose the health life without love and then get rid of the unloved partner or whoever...  Without health, life is miserable. Without love, there is always a hope to get true love in the future.

[MooseMom]

I would choose a healthy life without ESRD because then I'd have the health and will to travel the world helping people wherever I could.  I wouldn't feel like such a useless lump of a person.

[KarenInWA]

As someone who has had embarrassingly bad luck with "men" and "dating" before ESRD came and hit me a couple of months ago, I'd have to vote for good health.  As much as I want to experience true love and live it, I know that it is not a reality for me. With good health, I would be able to travel and live life and do the things that I want to do.  I can still do that now, but I am restricted somewhat with needing to go to dialysis.  It would be nice to not have to worry about that, or worry about upcoming transplant surgeries and recovery.  Also, if I do end up having a live donor, it would be nice to not have to worry about implications for that kind person.  So yes, I would pick good health over "true love", mainly because with the "experiences" I've had, I'm not really sure I believe in it.

KarenInWA

[Deanne]

I've always been single and happy. I'll take health.

[Meinuk]

Well, isn't this a can of worms I am about to open.  My take is that there isn't an either/or in this life.  We play the hand that fate dealt us. I know that the question asked was a hypothetical "What If" but I also read into it that there are some that feel having CKD and finding someone are mutually exclusive.

I have been 'sick' all of my life. I have been in love many times in my life (in most of those cases, it was mutual).  My health did affect some long term descision making.  I didn't marry #1 because kids were off the table.  (I have ADPKD, and I am second generation - I have no need to replicate or take a chance at replicating my childhood) - yeah, that one still hurts, but I got over it and moved on to #'s 2,3, and 4  (I am 45 after all).  A great friend one told me that the only word a person should say after a breakup is "Next". 

Through the years I have been in a few intense relationships - I think that all love is "true" (I am rather pragmatic when it comes to romance).  I was alone by choice (and feeling sorry for myself) while I was on dialysis. It was important for me not to be a burden on anyone either physically or emotionally (IHD sort of blurred those lines for me - but it gave me the disconnect of being "on-line" and that helped).

In the three years since my trasplant, I am settled down, having a great time and not contemplating marriage... but every time I hear the words "us" and "our" I am resisting the urge to run away - that is a good sign (he would say "resistance is futile").  If I start eating food off his plate, well, then I'll know I am a goner.

I work with people, outwardly healthy people, who bemoan being single and how difficult it is to meet someone and then when I hear their stories of the gauntlet that they run their dates through, or the people that they discount because they have a certain "standard" - well, I am not surprised that they are alone and lonely. 

My philosophy has always been "take a chance".  Last year, I announced at a post transplant educational conference that I was single, and after the meeting, the regional director of a pharmeceutical company asked me out (I was flattered, but said no, I had just started seeing someone, but I did keep his card just in case things don't work out.) (note: I am "aestetically challeneged" my profile pic is from a distance for a reason) - no one is chasing me down the street BUT, I put myself out there, me and my three kidneys and my fistula revision scars. I just have to think that if I am getting asked out, then everyone has a chance.

My thoughts are that we should never use our condition as an excuse or a barrier.  We simply need to adapt and live our lives.  If you feel that it is a trade off, then you simply need to reexamine how you are leading your life or how you "think" that others are viewing you (note: the voices in your head are ALWAYS wrong!).

I simply don't get it, in this world full of lonely isolated people that people say "I can't meet anyone".  I firmly believe that loving someone is a choice.  Yes, it is two way, but CKD and complications are just a part of who we are.  We are more than the disease, and allowing sickness to dictate how we respond to or even interact with others is simply self sabotage as far as I am concerned.

Gram said it best when she advised me "if you don't like what you are catching, check your bait."

[rsudock]

Interesting viewpoints....just wanted to start a discussion.

[looneytunes]

And a good discussion it's been.  There are some diverse and interesting opinions here.  To add mine to the fray:  I don't think there is an either/or for me.  I would choose good health over a mediocre relationship but I would willingly change places with hubby if I could because I truly love him. 

Then if I were the one in the D chair, I could be ultra compliant to try and attain the best level of health possible....instead of being frustrated with him every time I see him pop the top on a can of Dr. Pepper or eat chocolate bars!   

[MooseMom]

I would willingly change places with hubby if I could because I truly love him. 

Really?  Is that really, really true?  ESRD is so horrible that I truly cannot believe that anyone would willingly subject him/herself to it.  And what if in a fantasy world you WERE able to change places with him, and YOU were the one with this awful burden, do you think he would be the caregiver to you that you've been to him?  What if he wasn't?  Would you resent him?  Would you resent the fact that he let you take on this horrible illness so that he could be well again?

Discussions like these, based on a hypothetical, usually morph into something else entirely, and it may just happen now.     If any of you with a spouse/loved one on dialysis could exchange places and take on this illness for them (what better definition of "true love" is there?), would you do it?  And if you did it, what would you expect from the previously ill spouse?  Would you expect him to take over the caregiver role?

I know my husband loves me to pieces, but I do not for one second believe that he would trade places with me, even for a nanosecond.  No way.  He is in awe of how well I stay on my diet, and if he thinks THAT is the hardest part of all this, I guaran-damn-tee you that he'd collapse under the weight of all of the other stuff that comes with ESRD.  (PS, he has never come close to saying anything like, "I'd take this burden onto my own shoulders if it would mean you'd be spared this illness."  But I don't think that means he doesn't love me.  It just means that he is a more fortunate person than I am; he is acutely aware of his good luck when he sees my own misfortune.)

I am very tempted to say that anyone who claims they would make this switch does not have a true understanding of the devastating nature of ESRD, but I don't want anyone to think that I don't have faith in the profound love they have for their sick spouse.   I firmly believe that when it comes to "true love", that love is more important than "understanding".  You don't have to walk in someone's shoes in order to love them.  My husband doesn't have to "understand" my CKD in order to love me.

[Meinuk]

I would willingly change places with hubby if I could because I truly love him. 

Really?  Is that really, really true?  ESRD is so horrible that I truly cannot believe that anyone would willingly subject him/herself to it.

Well, my jaw dropped at that one.

ESRD is what we make of it. For me, it could have been so much worse, I am totally fine with it.  My attitude was the same throughout dialysis as well - read what I have written, I have never had the "woe is me" attitude. Maybe it is because I had a lifetime of being prepared and reconciled to my kidneys failing.  Dealing with the loss of your kidneys is a grieving process. I am a lucky enough survivor to say that there is life before and after kidney failure, and I am not talking about transplant.  I have had enough complications to know that this is all just a crapshoot, and every day that we are living and breathing is a bonus.  We need to be thankful for that.  The ones who love us learn from the way that we cope.

I watched my mother slowly die from ESRD.  I never could conceive of wanting to take her place (I was a child), but I did feel immense relief when her suffering was over.  As an adult, I have loved someone enough to wish that I could take on their burden.  I seem capable of carrying more of a burden than others, and if I could have done it, I would have in a second.

I have seen parents sacrifice so much for their children, that I could easily understand where loonytunes is coming from in her desire to shoulder the burden for her husband.

The people in my life are amazing, and although none of them can really "see" how I feel, there is an understanding.  They take their guidance about my health from my cues.  If I am ok with it, then they appear to be ok with it. (I can't speak for what goes on behind my back).

I say that wishing you could trade places with someone you love is an amazing thing, selfless and love with no strings attached. Of course, this is all in theory, but we see a portion of it played out every time an altruistic donor offers a kidney.  The organ itsself may be a gift, but the simple offer is priceless.

[MooseMom]

Wishing you could take away someones cancer or ESRD by giving it to yourself and actually doing just that are two very different propositions.  Of course, we will never know because this is the fantasy world, and it's easy to say all kinds of things without having to prove that you'd really go through with it.

I will say, though, that willingly taking on a terrible illness so that your child could be instantly cured is something else entirely.  That mother/child relationship knows no bounds.  I know all about sacrificing for my child, and things I have done for my child have been more painful than you can possibly imagine.

Willingly taking on a lifetime of pain and suffering is very different from donating a kidney.  If donating a kidney meant that you'd immediately have to go on dialysis as a result of your precious gift, knowing all of the adverse effects of kidney failure and dialysis, I don't think many people would do that, so I'm thinking this is a false equivalency.

I have had people "offer" to donate a kidney to me, knowing full well that they can't because of medical reason of which I am already aware.  I will not define that sort of offer as "priceless".  It's disengenuous.

I'm glad there are people out there who are "totally fine" with kidney failure.  I'm not, and I'm not going to apologize for that. 

[Meinuk]

sigh.

[MooseMom]

sigh.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what this means.

I have not attained the equilibrium that you have.  I am flawed.  I'm still a work in progress.  I can't lie about that.  I'm sorry if that offends you in some way. 

[Chris]

Since I do not have a significant other or anyone of interest, better health would be my choice so I could work then pay someone to like me    However, I do not like golddiggers. With health, there wou,ld be more options to find love because bad health is a turn off to most people I think when searching along without working. So life without health problems since I was a kid I would say would be better and I'd have a different outcome growing up.

[Sugarlump]

VERY RANDOM TOPIC!!!!!!
i cHOOSE BOTH (ALWAYS WAS GREEDY!)     

I want reasonable health and true love too would be good (but I will have a lot of fun along the way looking for it!!!!)
Its a bit like the half full/ half empty glass syndrome really I have made some shockingly bad love choices in the past but I never give up hope that I might eventually find Mr Exciting (Who's also Mr Normal Mr Stable and MrBe there forever!!!!!!)
Sounds like a series of Mr Men books!!!!!
                                                                                       

[Chris]

What about a Mrs or Mr Love that brings Health? 

[gothiclovemonkey]

since i dont believe that i will ever understand romantic love, i go with health... ive never had good health. I have thought i was in love once, and still love him very much, but not in a romantic way... and of course i love my son, my father, brother, etc, but as far as loving a stranger? not sure i believe its possible... I am happy that people get that chance. Dont think I ever will.
it would be nice to be healthy, so i coudl do more for my child.

[MooseMom]

Sounds like a series of Mr Men books!!!!!
   

I bought all of the Mr. Men books for my son when he was little.  Awwwwww...I loved those book.  I wish my baby were still a baby.  He'll be twenty a week from today; definitely not a baby anymore.

[Chris]

I thought Sugarlump was making a joke, didn't know there was an actual  book.

[MooseMom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Men

[Sugarlump]

Moosey !!! and the Little Miss Books !!!

Little miss giggles??? and little miss sunshine???
I would probably be little miss naughty!

[RichardMEL]

oh SL is most definitely Little Miss Naughty!!! lol

I always liked Mr Happy because he was big yellow and always smiling (yellow is my fave colour - such a happy, bright colour )... of course my life has been more like Mr Bump - what a loser! 

Chris - not surprised you never grew up with or heard of Mr Men. Seems to be one of those very English things (that somehow made it to oz, probably NZ, South Africa etc). Sort of like Noddy or even Biggles back in the day....

[Sugarlump]

Rich reckon we could call you MR FLIRT actually!!!!!

Sorry going very off topic here....I digress  again