Does pending renal failure make you ponder death?

[Deanne]

It's just a curiosity. I've always wondered what it'll be like to die someday. I grew up expecting to die at any time, and I was taken by surpise when I turned 30 and found myself still living. I'm not suicidal. I'm not depressed. I don't think I'm being morbid, but maybe I am (I did grow up wanting to be a medical examiner after watching that old tv show, Quincy). I fully expect to have a successful pre-emptive transplant and live a great, long life, but I'm also always curious about the unknown, and death seems like the greatest unknown there is. (I also wonder what it's like to climb Mt. Everest and have no intention of doing so -- it looks COLD up there!) Sometimes I think I can imagine what it'll be like when death nears. I can kind of feel the acceptance and the sense of "letting go." Maybe I have too much imagination. Since my last, bad neph appointment, of course it makes me wonder again. It's hard to ask other people if they wonder about it, too -- I worry that if I bring it up to "normal" people, they'll worry unnecessarily. Sometimes I want to ask elderly people if they think about it / their opinions, too. If the topic ever comes up with my elderly friends, it'll probably make a great discussion.

[MooseMom]

Yes, it does make me ponder death...I think that's only natural.

I dream very vividly.  Sometimes I awaken and I am mentally tired already from all of my brain's nocturnal shenanigans.  I always remember my dreams; they are usually emotionally fraught. 

I have had general anesthetic three times in the past two years, and while I am unconscious, I don't think I dream.  I don't know what happens to the brain while one is under, but if I DO dream, I don't remember.  So, one minute I'm here and the next I've returned, and I don't know where I've been in the inbetween time.  I hate general anesthetics with a passion because to me, they feel like what I think death might be like...utter nothingness.  When I sleepdream, I know I'm alive.  When I go in for surgery, I'm not so sure.

My mom died over the summer, and the topic of death reared its ugly head.  I had to think about it.

I worry more about suffering, however, than I do about dying.  But when I do think about dying, I get really sad because I start missing myself.   Isn't that bizarre?

I have to remind myself that just because I have an incurable disease doesn't mean that THAT is what will kill me.  It could be something else entirely, like a drunk driver.  I suspect that if you have been battling illness for a long time, you might more easily "let go" as death approaches, but if you've been struck down quickly, I would hope I wouldn't let go without a good fight!

[rsudock]

I worry more about suffering, however, than I do about dying.  But when I do think about dying, I get really sad because I start missing myself.   Isn't that bizarre?

I have to remind myself that just because I have an incurable disease doesn't mean that THAT is what will kill me.  It could be something else entirely, like a drunk driver.  I suspect that if you have been battling illness for a long time, you might more easily "let go" as death approaches, but if you've been struck down quickly, I would hope I wouldn't let go without a good fight!

Moosemama I don't think it is sad at all that you miss yourself...I miss myself too when I think about dying.  I get really scared when I think about dying and start to cry. You would think dealing with this disease all my life I would have accepted death but it scares me big time!

Also no one is promised a tomorrow that is what I tell myself when I get all shaken up about death and dying. It is just that we have a disease to battle on a daily basis. Sometimes i tell my boyfriend that by the time he is old I will have all new parts and a better understanding of keeping myself healthy while being sick, he is the one that is going to have to worry!! 

Deanna good topic to post. I actually have this romantic long drawn out dying scene between my boyfriend and I when it is my time to go. Something like Romeo and Juliet. My boy tells me it wouldn't be me if I couldn't go out with a little drama. I have my good bye speech already to go....some might think that is a bit morbid too ya know?

xo,
R

[boswife]

This i think is a really good thing to talk about.  Only thing is i get too wound up to even be able to express  myself about it.  One thing, i think it's sooo freeken funny? odd? or what ever, that the 'missing oneself' was brought up.  That is so felt by me as well and i think it's really weard so was REALLY funny to hear it spoken..lol  And another thing, i have the most awful earie horrid horrid gosh awful horrid feelings at times over loosing hubby.  So bad that i feel i could actually desolve into thin air with dispare.  So, how about that for yuck.  As for me dying, at this time i dont fear it.  I have strong faith and feel very sure of whats to come and it is peaceful and good.  I just dont want to loose anyone else.  I too lost my mom just months ago and i dont like it    Well, see what i mean, im wound up and probably not saying good things.  I apologise if i offended and will hush on this..

[jbeany]

I don't think you can be chronically ill and not think about it once in a while, at least not without really strong meds.  I'm scared of the unknown, just like everyone else.  Of course, there's nothing like being told by your doc that you have 3 options to choose from - pd, hemo, or death.  Somehow, that does tend to clarify your thinking, ya know? 

I've watched my mom, my good friend  and my grandparents fade badly before dying in excruciating pain.  I've watched my father drop dead in my arms.  Given a choice, I know what route I'd choose - and long suffering isn't it.  My own experience hasn't shown a great deal of that "calm, joyful acceptance" crap they like to peddle from church or the local hospice center.  My grandmother was deeply religious, but at the end, she was down to swearing at God for not ending her suffering. 

I have one thing I'm holding onto for hope that there really is another big adventure after this one.  Not long after my mother died, she came back to me in the most intense, vivid dream I've ever had.  It was so real I truly thought I had died in my sleep and she had come for me.  I asked her if I was dead and told her I wasn't ready to go.  She said it wasn't my time and that I had to "wait to catch the summer train."  I woke up sitting bolt upright in bed with that phrase ringing in my ears.  I have no idea what that means - it's not a phrase I've ever heard used in any story I can think of.  So I'm still waiting to find out when my ticket for the summer train will come, so I can find out where it goes.

[MooseMom]

One thing that makes humans unique is that we know we will die some day.  Thinking about it isn't weird or morbid or anything other than normal.

  boswife

[kristina]

I don't think you can be chronically ill and not think about it once in a while, at least not without really strong meds.  I'm scared of the unknown, just like everyone else.  Of course, there's nothing like being told by your doc that you have 3 options to choose from - pd, hemo, or death.  Somehow, that does tend to clarify your thinking, ya know? 

I've watched my mom, my good friend  and my grandparents fade badly before dying in excruciating pain.  I've watched my father drop dead in my arms.  Given a choice, I know what route I'd choose - and long suffering isn't it.  My own experience hasn't shown a great deal of that "calm, joyful acceptance" crap they like to peddle from church or the local hospice center.  My grandmother was deeply religious, but at the end, she was down to swearing at God for not ending her suffering. 

I have one thing I'm holding onto for hope that there really is another big adventure after this one.  Not long after my mother died, she came back to me in the most intense, vivid dream I've ever had.  It was so real I truly thought I had died in my sleep and she had come for me.  I asked her if I was dead and told her I wasn't ready to go.  She said it wasn't my time and that I had to "wait to catch the summer train."  I woke up sitting bolt upright in bed with that phrase ringing in my ears.  I have no idea what that means - it's not a phrase I've ever heard used in any story I can think of.  So I'm still waiting to find out when my ticket for the summer train will come, so I can find out where it goes.

“Wait to catch the summer train”... what a beautiful poetical thought....

Now you have had your transplant... you have started to study again...

You certainly have put “everything in its place” to be ready and prepared

when the summer train arrives to take you on board for new adventures...

Don’t you think?

Good luck from Kristina.

[Jean]

This is a really scary subject, but good to talk about. I am not afraid to die. It will be one of two things, either I am right and GOD and Heaven exist, or I am wrong, and death is nothingness, very much like a good sleep. But I dont think I am wrong. I just dont want to be in pain and suffer for a long long time. However, I would hurt for my daughter as I know her grief and missing me would be a hard time for her. And my husband would miss me too. Having buried my parents, my husband, and my oldest child, I know what grief is like and I would like to spare my loved ones that. However, I guess it is just not possible, and grief is a part of every ones life.

[monrein]

I have thought about this subject quite regularly all my life not just because of kidney failure although that certainly does focus the mind in a personal kind of way.  My Mom died at 46 and growing up in Jamaica I was exposed to several premature deaths.  When I think about death, I'm not scared at all (hoping not to suffer of course) but rather I start being grateful that I'm not dead yet and it makes me want to make the most of the moment.  I don't mean doing anything grand necessarily but rather just feeling content, glad for the little things that add up to a life worth living, being as kind as I can be and relishing the feeling of not being in physical or emotional pain.  I used to be terribly ambitious at school and in my career(s) but kidney disease altered that for me and I don't miss that pressure.  I don't expect anything after death as I'm not remotely religious but I feel that striving to live  harmoniously in the world day to day is the best path to feeling peaceful when the time comes to leave it. 
I don't find the topic of death morbid at all.  What I don't understand is NOT spending quite a bit of time pondering the fact of it since it affects every one of us and is a pretty significant thing in our lives.

[jbeany]

“Wait to catch the summer train”... what a beautiful poetical thought....

Now you have had your transplant... you have started to study again...

You certainly have put “everything in its place” to be ready and prepared

when the summer train arrives to take you on board for new adventures...

Don’t you think?

Good luck from Kristina.

It did seem like poetry.  I'm ready, yes, but I'm hoping the train doesn't leave the station for a long time!

[MooseMom]

I hope my train's driver isn't asleep at the wheel, otherwise I will hurtle out of control!

[kristina]

“Wait to catch the summer train”... what a beautiful poetical thought....

Now you have had your transplant... you have started to study again...

You certainly have put “everything in its place” to be ready and prepared

when the summer train arrives to take you on board for new adventures...

Don’t you think?

Good luck from Kristina.

It did seem like poetry.  I'm ready, yes, but I'm hoping the train doesn't leave the station for a long time!

Isn’t it fascinating how we understand & interpret things differently?

I interpret “wait to catch the summer train” as a very poetic description
of great adventures in this life, starting as soon as you get on the summer train...

In the dream-analysis “summer” means the best time of our life...
(Spring means childhood whereas winter means old age...)

Shakespeare speaks of seven ages, whereas dream-analysis mentions only four...

[Stoday]

Shakespeare speaks of seven ages, whereas dream-analysis mentions only four...

"Now is the Winter of our discontent
Made glorious Summer by this Son of York"

(Richard III)

[Henry P Snicklesnorter]

.

[Poppylicious]

I've had a morbid curiosity about death my entire life and I don't fear it.  I'm constantly planning my own funeral and regularly talk about it with my mumsy and Blokey.  Obviously I spend a lot of time thinking about Blokey's death, partly because I'm very aware that he's more likely to die before me.  Whenever he's ended up in hospital I tend to keep myself awake at night by wondering what to play at his funeral, and how much time I'll have to clean the house before people pop in offering condolences, and what life will be like without him here.  I don't know how odd that makes me but it helps me to put things into perspective ... it clears my mind I suppose.

My ideal death scenario would be to fall asleep on a bus watching the world go by, a very old lady wearing a tea cosy on my head and smelling of soap, and just not wake up.  I imagine I'll have a smile on my lips. 

But please, I really don't want All Things Bright and Beautiful played at my funeral! I've already told Blokey I'll haunt him for eternity if he plays it.

 

[jbeany]

I told my sis no funeral at all.  And cremate me - immediately!  After that, I don't care if she throw the ashes into the dust bin with the rest of the mess she scrapes out of the wood stove. 

We both can't stand open-coffin funerals where everyone keeps saying, "She looks so good!"  No, she looks dead, with make-up on, idiot.

kristina, I like the idea that I'm waiting to die until after the best time of my life!

[Deanne]

I think of death as the next great adventure. Sometimes, I want to hurry up and get this life over with so I can see what's waiting for me. Will all of the mysteries of the world be opened up to me? Will I know what happened to Atlantis or King Tut? Will I find out if aliens really did help build the pyramids? What about the dinasours? Can I watch life on earth as if it's a TV show? Can I see if there really is life on other planets / galaxies? I want to know!

The funeral comment made me think of something my mom said that still makes me laugh. Years ago, she told me I needed to join a church. We were raised Lutheran and I haven't been to church since I left my parents' home. Her argument about why I needed to join was, "If you don't join a church, who'll bury you when you die?" I pointed out that I'd be dead. I wouldn't care. She could have me dropped into the nearest dumpster and I wouldn't know the difference. Argument over.

[RichardMEL]

Here's my two cents on this difficult topic.

I've never thought about death directly per se, except perhaps in passing. What the whole CKD/dialysis journey HAS done is masively change my own view on life's priorities. As others have said we all die sometime. I could die anyday yes, but so could anyone else. I tend to take a Que Cera Cera view to that - if it's mean to be it will be, and it holds no fear (any pain associated with it however.....  )

What I mean by life's priorities. For me anyway, is that I have learned that what is important is the big things in life. Don't sweat the small things. If an opportunity comes along TAKE IT. Don't go wondering "what if?" - have those experiences you want. Even if they suck at least you gave it a shot. That sort of thing has become very important to me - indeed more so since my transplant as I want to continue to make the most of my gift.

I've also become very generous in nature too -I think perhaps that who knows what could happen tomorrow, so live today - share the spirit, and helping others is a special thing and has its own rewards.

I know this is a bit different to the gist of the conversation, but I wanted to put my two cents in.

[Poppylicious]

We both can't stand open-coffin funerals where everyone keeps saying, "She looks so good!"  No, she looks dead, with make-up on, idiot.

Are most funerals in the States open coffin?  In all the tellybox shows and films I see they always seem to be open coffins, but I've never known anybody to have such a funeral in the UK.  It makes me feel odd to think about it, but I suppose that's natural because it's not part of UKian culture so is an alien concept for my pretty little head.

[Deanne]

It's been several years since I've been to a funeral, but every one that I've been to has been open casket. Maybe we need to make sure we're really burying the right person?

[Bruno]

Now, in that place where birds cease to
                                                    sing
and paths grow faint and melt into the hills
You pause - tasting the wind; for it is spring
and down in Ellendale's wide water spills
A dust of petals.
For in this last September
opening your hands to receive the golden light
(your hands which friends and animals
                                                   remember
and trees and children) You will enter night.

I am no more the child who made you cry
so readily with your ballad-tales
Not skilled to soothe the life that prays to die.
Not skilled to pray. But must since all else
                                                       fails
Trust that the Lord who owes you some
                                                     amend
grant you a quiet night and a perfect end.

[jbeany]

It's been several years since I've been to a funeral, but every one that I've been to has been open casket. Maybe we need to make sure we're really burying the right person?

It does seem to be a very American thing, and when we refused to do open coffin at my Gram's, people were very annoyed with us.  "We don't have any closure if we can't say goodbye!"  Yada, yada, yada.  She was on hospice for months - why didn't you say it while she could hear it?  She was a skinny shell of herself at the end; she would have hated to have them all commenting on how she looked; even if it wasn't going to make my sis and I grind out teeth.

 My step-mom had my dad cremated, and scheduled the funeral so quickly his ashes weren't even back from the crematorium in time for the service.  It's a small town, and the locals were absolutely incensed at not having a body to see. ( Plus, it started an interesting rumor that she had poisoned him, but that's another joy of small towns - too much time to gossip!)

[rsudock]

Now, in that place where birds cease to
                                                    sing
and paths grow faint and melt into the hills
You pause - tasting the wind; for it is spring
and down in Ellendale's wide water spills
A dust of petals.
For in this last September
opening your hands to receive the golden light
(your hands which friends and animals
                                                   remember
and trees and children) You will enter night.

I am no more the child who made you cry
so readily with your ballad-tales
Not skilled to soothe the life that prays to die.
Not skilled to pray. But must since all else
                                                       fails
Trust that the Lord who owes you some
                                                     amend
grant you a quiet night and a perfect end.

i like this Bruno...

[Bruno]

It's not mine, of course, but I have it in my notebook by my bed because it resonates with me. It seems to me to combine the two approaches I notice on this thread...the non believers and the believers in a most understanding way. I believe it was written by an Australian poet (in those days when poets were poets) for a friend who was missing a dear relation rather badly.