How long before this thread is locked, too?

[petey]

Okay, let me start by saying that I'm not trying to stir up anything.  I'm not trying to cause a problem.  I'm not trying to be a rebel.  I have a concern, and I think it's a legitimate concern.  This is bothering me greatly, and I feel I have to speak up.

Last night, I wanted to add a comment to the thread started by Kickstart in this section ("Time to say good-bye?").  When I went to find that thread, it was gone.  POOF! just disappeared.  I saw Sluff was online, so I pm'ed him.  No reply (and I know he's on the road, but he was online at the time).  A little later in chat, I asked Paris what had happened to the thread, and she said she didn't know.  Paris said no threads are deleted, though some are "locked" and moved to the "archives" section.  She said she had not heard anything about that thread even being locked and moved.  So, I started a new thread asking where that "Time to say good-bye" thread went to.  Okarol posted in my "where is it" thread and said that the issue had been resolved because Kickstart decided to stay; then, Okarol locked my "Where is the 'Time to Say Good-bye'" thread.

I feel like Kickstart's original thread evolved into another discussion (as a lot of threads on here do).  I realize Kickstart decided to stay (and that's good), but I don't feel like all of the issues raised in that thread were resolved.  I know I still had something to say in that thread; that's why I went looking for it.  And then, I feel like my "Where is the 'Time to Say Good-bye'" thread was locked prematurely.

Here are some questions I have:

Can we regular members not ask questions without a quick answer and an immediate "LOCKED"?

What criteria is used when locking a thread?

Is the discussion over when the moderators think it's over?  or when the members think it's over (which, to me, would mean that members stop posting in that thread because they have nothing else to say on that matter)?

Does this sound like censorship to you? (because that's what I'm feeling it is right now)




These are Epoman's words from way back when:
I want this to be the best site out there with a easy to use forum interface and no moderation of posts from administrators who delete or edit posts from people who just want to get a few things off their chest.



If one of the moderators/admins would like for me to shut up and stop asking questions, please let me know.  Or just "lock" this thread, too, and I'll get the message.

[LightLizard]

you bring up a valid but awkward point, petey. epoman had a vision for this site and as far as i can see, that vision has been obscured and neglected severely. i have read posts by him that were more abrasive than anything i've written on this site, yet no one gave him flak, ignored him or judged him as 'unfit' as i feel i am judged. that's why i don't come here much. i don't go to social functions where i can't be myself, either. people are so concerned with being politically correct and not offending anyone that it is impossible to rerally conmmunicate on a deep level here . anyone that is married knows that issues come up between you and your spouse, and unless you and your partner work on resolving that issue, it just festers and rots the relationship from the inside out. it's the same for anyone on dialysis. we are married to dialysis, and sometimes we feel like expressing ourselves honestly. i'm going to find a place to do that. i've seen and read enough enabling to fill a lifetime...

[petey]

Thank you, LL, for your response.  I noticed that this thread had been read 49 times before you and no one had anything to say.  So, thank you for saying what you feel.  Would that others would do the same.

If I'm the only one who questions this occurrence, then I'm obviously in the minority.  Which, to me, equates to "Petey, shut up!"  My guess is that now that I've brought this up, I'll join the "unfit" crowd on IHD.

You said, "...rots the relationship from the inside out."  I think that's the perfect analogy for this situation.  You don't cure cancer by ignoring it; it still will grow and spread until it takes the life right out -- in time.

Thanks again, LL.  I admire your willingness to stand up and let your voice be heard and your opinion counted.

[willowtreewren]

Petey and LL,
Even though I do not like conflict, I really have to agree with you both.

Electronic communication will always be fraught with the high possibility of misunderstanding. We have CERTAINLY established that here at IHD! But if we can't continue to hash it out, it seems that the chance of improving that communication or even resolving differences is squelched. And even though we may not be able to resolve all the differences, perhaps we can at least understand them better and come to accept them in a respectful manner.

We are ALL affected for good and bad by the disease that connects us to this site and to one another. Otherwise we would not be here. And we all go through periods that we are more sensitive to others and more self-centered. That is life.

One of the things that I would like to see is that we members are given the freedom and respect to move through those times without undue interference. As a teacher of children I avoid saying, "Because I said so." That is simply a way to stop thought, conversation and growth. I have to be willing to listen to the students in our community. That isn't going to happen if I won't even let them have their say. There are times that I have to guide them to use appropriate methods of communication. But stopping it does not resolve the issue. It merely allows it to fester.

I have witnessed a tremendous amount of give and take here at IHD. I have seen folks get upset and get over it. I have been upset and gotten past it. There have been times for my own sanity that I have avoided certain threads until I felt strong enough to handle them. But I have been glad that those threads were there for the folks who were involved at the time. I also felt comforted that when I DID feel that I could visit in them, they would be there for me, too. This is how I have come to know and appreciate the many different personalities we have here on IHD.

LL, you said it well in calling it having to be politically correct. Another way of defining the trend is that we must white wash what we say.

I am not advocating that we start hurling mean epithets at one another, but I would like more open, honest communication. If we are hurt by something said by another member, we need to be able to say so. If it was simply a misunderstanding or result of poor communication, that information can be shared. Otherwise others will have no way to improve their communication skills and we will be stuck at the same level of mis-communication (and frustration!).

I am not a peace-keeper in that I am not supporting that there always be peace in this large and diverse family. But I do want to be a peace-maker by encouraging better, deeper, more meaningful communication.

Aleta

PS. This took a long time to compose and I was interrupted by having to put Carl on the dialysis machine. I apologize to Petey for the delay.

[petey]

You never need to apologize to me, Aleta.  And, you are a very, very wise woman.

[rose1999]

You'll never be 'unfit' in my opinion Petey.  I believe that everyone should have their say on the topic in question but refrain from making personal and hurtful remarks to anyone who does not share their opinion.

[dwcrawford]

OMG, did I agree with Lizard on something?  Whew!  I'd better go take a valium.

[petey]

OMG, did I agree with Lizard on something?  Whew!  I'd better go take a valium.

Take one for me, too, Dan.

P.S.  Rose, you have to be the sweetest person in the whole world!

[The Wife]

A year and a half ago, a thread was started asking people what they didn't like.  Or something like that.  LL responded.  He stated he didn't like it when gay people acted sexual in front of others.  He didn't put anyone down but a well loved member here took LL's opinion personally and attacked him by calling him a bigot.  LL reacted and was banned but the person who called him a bigot wasn't.  I learned real quick that it's not so much what a person says on this board but whether or not you're accepted as part of this 'family.'

Since then, I've stopped posting as much as I used to.  And now, I've read more than a few times that people think LL is harsh.  What I see is that it's not ok for LL to speak honestly but it is for others when speaking about him.

And now I read that people need valum if they agree with him?  Ok, so maybe it's a joke, but maybe people should think about how it feels for his wife.  That'll be me.  I wanted to share last week that LL had to go in for an ultrasound to check if there was a tumor in his kidneys but I didn't share.  A few people were too busy putting LL down.

As a spouse, it helps to have a place where I can share my worries, such as 'what if he has a tumor"  but,how can I get support when people have clearly placed judgement against my husband for his way of speaking?  Who is going to support the wife of someone they don't like?

No matter who we are, what we think, or how we speak, someone is always going to disagreewith us, judge us, or make fun at our expense.  We can take our reactions and throw them back at others while blaming them for our unhappiness, or we can look within and see what our reaction is telling us about ourselves. 

Peace.

[dwcrawford]

Yes, it was a joke and I am sorry.  He would have understood.  LL came down on  me seriously over a depression isssue and the fact that I was taking prozac.  It's the only thing  we ever disagreed (or agreed on) as he wanted to Kick the depression out of people and I didn't want to get kicked.  Ok, his feeling against gays and people with depressions are valid.  No less valid was my feelings about getting put down because of admitting I have had clincial depression.

This is the only post I've seen f rom him since, so I apologize the the joke.

[KICKSTART]

Ok , ok , i think this topic is dragging on a little too much and seeing i was the one that started it , i think its best im the one to close it.

To much emphasis has been put on the ..he said, she said , this was never the intention.
Alot of people have pm'd me , not to say, oh he said or she said , but more the feel of the forum in general was changing and they were actually reluctant to post , so they just sat on the sidelines.

I just think these people want a chance to be heard and a chance to ask things , without an 'i told you so' reply or 'ive been at this game so long , so i know best.
Honesty ..yes? but not cutting personal attacks , not superior attitudes.
I guess its like in real life , some people like the sound of their own voice and will talk over you regardless. So lets give the 'mouses' (no disrespect) on here a chance to be heard, dont frighten people away or make them not want to post.

Everyone is equal here .. lets keep it that way !!   KS xxx

[The Wife]

I know you were upset Dan and I also know you brought up his past comments in the thread that was deleted.  This brings up a point I'd like to make.  Someone says something in the past that we take as hurtful, whether or not it was intended that way such as your joke, and when something else comes up, the past is brought up.  I did the same thing by bringing up when LL was banned because I hadn't totally let go of my hurtful feelings. 

Your apology is accepted.  I wasn't going to say anything but if I hadn't have spoken out and you didn't respond, festering feelings may have occured.  In my opinion, discussing things openly helps heal misunderstandings. 

It's Thanksgiving weekend here, LL's doc called and the test results are good.  No tumor!  And now, we can go to my daughters for a feast.

[KICKSTART]

Aww come on guys , lets PLEASE close this thread !

[kristina]

I do understand petey's concern.

I find it difficult to communicate "per computer", because,
I am not really used to it and I've only started this year.

It is a very new form of communication,
and opens up great opportunities.
We are all in the same boat and some of us
have a motor on the boat and others have no motor
and are exhausted and traumatized.
We do exchange knowledge,
help each other to understand our kidney failure,
learn from each other, how to deal with it.

We are also sensitive and because we communicate
"per" computer without seeing each other,
there is a difficulty to avoid misunderstandings.

I still hope, it was an unfortunate misunderstanding.

[dwcrawford]

All due respect and no disrespect, Kickstart, I was told the issue was resolved because you were not leaving.  Unfortunatly this becamse about my comment causing you to leave (which you thankfully dispelled) but I remained the scapgoat.  I am not a mouse (still  no disrespect) but rather a scapegoat here.

[willowtreewren]

Your apology is accepted.  I wasn't going to say anything but if I hadn't have spoken out and you didn't respond, festering feelings may have occured.  In my opinion, discussing things openly helps heal misunderstandings.

Admins: Please note that this is exactly why we should not have to be afraid of getting threads locked or hidden when we are trying to hash out our sometimes clumsy attempts at communicating.

KS, don't feel responsible for this thread. Even though it grew out of your thread's being deleted, this issue goes far beyond your original concern about thinking of leaving. It has to do with our need to have avenues for open communication without the fear of censoring. It will not always be comfortable for every one, but, to my way of thinking it is totally human and necessary.

Aleta

[dwcrawford]

this was written to be a final post from me on this subject.  I was holding it thinking did I or did I not want to send.  I guess maybe I do now.  This is meant, if you can't tell, for Mr. Paul.Karen.

This, I think, is appropriate for the current thread title as I would like to get back to the topic.

I will never leave IHD because of something you or anyone has done or said to me.  I can take it so come and give me your best shots.  I would, however, leave if I felt I had done something to cause enough pain to make another member leave.  Even Yourself!    Read that again please.    Also, if people insult my friends on here for standing up for me, I would consider leaving after discussion with them to avoid having them be uncomfortable.  If someone does repeatedly say things to offend me personally, however, I would do all I can to avoid them while online.  Please note the insertion of the word “personally” refers to my humanity and not to my religious, political, or even Politically Correct beliefs.

A couple of corrections:  No one changed vacation plans because of me.  I cancelled vacation plans because of them.  The person in question, later cancelled vacation plans due to the flu.  That person is the one who threatened leaving but I did instead.   It was for reaI until someone started a post showing great support that made me change my mind.   Indulge me while I made a point about that particular thread.  Two people out of the dozen wrote negative things.  One of the two I had never seen on line before so I asked if I could PM her.  It was a great experience.  I have learned from getting to know her about her country, her life and more.  She even removed my name (lol) from her footnote statement.  Thanks to her.  You know who you are.

 I did not insult the second person you mentioned who left based on a not so gentle request to stop “bagging” on me (I hope I used that term right as I’ve never heard it in this context but it’s a cool word).  Until that day, I did not even know who she was.  (Actually I could do a lot better with real names than with screen names, but that’s another issue for me to deal with.)

I do care about your opinion of me and I care about what most people think.  I will not change my life nor my IHD experience because of it, however.  I had already posted what I thought was a very positive response to your first “bagging” (lord, don’t let me start talking like a New Zealander).  The incidents we have referenced about both started with my Pming instead of posting when I had something none flattering to say.  I thought it was the best thing to do, but I suppose they wanted it out in the open.  However, my personal opinion and preference would be for a private message if you have more bad things to bring up.  I would really rather innocent people not be affected by it – especially my friends.  Will you please do that for me?

I got into a word battle with a moderator ages ago.  I apologize and then thought it was over, but it now seems that it is so easy to lay all the blame for any disturbance on me.  Most people are so ready to believe anything.  I won’t be defending myself anymore.  Only a very few people on the site have taken to time to know who I am (and of course that isn’t possible in full but they tried and are getting close.)

Now, I'm finished!

[Sluff]

OK Petey you are banned for starting shit on a otherwise informative website and message board. You want to push buttons well so can I. You don't like the rules or decisions we Administrators make then go elsewhere. We are tired of babysitting those who just want a place to bitch. Well personally I am tired of it. Anyone else want to be banned while I am handing them out? Just try your luck.

This is not censorship this is keeping a board organized. All decisions made by Admins are final. Most of you here already know Epomans vision and that we are trying to adhere to that vision the best way we know how. Some of you actually appreciate it. I'm done with this thread and any others like it.

Sluff/Admin

THREAD LOCKED