Uremic frost, a gift from God!!!!!!

[KICKSTART]

Im sorry but you either have shares in a sauna company or are in for a complete shock ! We are not a hostile site as we all have something in common and gladly share and help each other in any way we can . It will be interesting to see if in maybe months or possibly a year , you are still not doing dialysis . I would also like to say there is a lot more to it than 'sweating toxins' out of your body! How come there is only you that has found this miracle? Surely out of all the hundreds of members we have, a small % would also be using this miracle (i wont say cure) treatment? We are we all dragging ourselves off to dialysis?
Actually your claim to saunas proves nothing , i have just looked at your profile and you were only diagnosed a year ago. I and many others have lasted years from diagnosis to actually starting dialysis , so mebbe if we had taken saunas in that time ,we could also make your claims , but to be honest you have nothing to claim

[dwcrawford]

I'm sorry but you should not stop creative thinking.  There would be no dialysis with out some creative and often incorrect procedure and thoughts in the past.  The ideas of saunas might leaded to other ideas, etc.  In other posts they  claim that dialysis is no way to live and transplant is the only thing that works.  I mean, don't give up dialysis for the sauna but don't come down on people for thinking outside the box. 

[BigSky]

"And one certain fact is that saunas cannot ever be a substitute for dialysis". How do you know "that saunas cannot ever be a substitute for dialysis."?
Give me real facts please. Not just a lecture about desperation.
The facts show me very clearly that saunaing dialysis done correctly does the very same thing as regular dialysis. Plus you can start sauna dialysis when you're in a pre dialysis stage. Are you saying I should not sauna for any hour every day and sweat out all my excess fluid and a lot of the waste in my blood? Are you saying it does not get rid of excess fluid? Are you saying it's not purifying my blood?

My first guess would be this guy is a troll.



Despite your claim, an hour a day does not give you a full days worth of kidney function.  Hell even 24 hours a day would not do that.

Also a large amounts of toxins are not removed by sweating.  Toxins are sweated out more in dialysis patients but it is a far cry from that which is removed by dialysis.

Sweating doesnt replace dialysis as you try to claim and sweating out 2 liters does not equal dialysis or proper functioning kidneys

A sauna will let you sweat out excess fluids, however it does not cause you to sweat out a significant amount of toxins.  Just as exercise will let you sweat out 2-3 liters of excess fluid, toxin removal via sweat is not enough to be a replacement for dialysis.


BTW I do own a sauna and yet still I am on dialysis. 

[paris]

Did I read that Billybill was at 40% function? Most of us didn't even know we had kidney disease at 40%.   We are not a negative site, but with thousands of members around the world, we have pretty much tried it all.  There is a lot we can do to help our bodies, but there are also a lot of "snake oil" salesmen out there and we need to be cautious.

[Deanne]

I've long wondered about sauna therapy, not as a replacement for dialysis but as a co-treatment between dialysis sessions to help maintain the correct fluid balance in the body / ease the fluid restrictions. I've been keeping my eyes open for studies on it & would love to read about and possibly participate in any legitimate studies.

[fluffy]

i love the idea of using a sauna to cut some excess fluid, but a full hour in one sounds dangerous and foolish. Especially considering how dialysis is already hard on your heart

[okarol]

I would check with my doctor before engaging in intensive sauna treatments.
As with everything else, moderation is key.
And as my husband always says, "If it seems too good to be true, it is."

[Sluff]

BillBill I hardly think saunas are going to do the job of your kidneys. if your theory was correct then would people with perfect kidneys have a problem in a sauna?   I'm sorry, someone sold you a bridge and you fell for it hook line and sinker. We all hold on to false hopes sometime in our lives and I think this one is yours.  Good luck with your theory but I don't think anyone else is buying it.

[okarol]

I can remember doing so much research when Jenna was diagnosed - they said she had 25% function and would need a transplant or dialysis within 1 to 5 years. I looked into herbs, vitamins, touch therapy, acupuncture, kidney toxin removal remedies -- anything to prolong that time until her kidneys failed. Sadly I do not believe there's a magic bullet out there - not yet anyway. But I do like to hear new ideas. However successful you've been Billy with your sauna treatment, it's just one case, and there's no other evidence from other patients that I have read that backs up your individual experience. But I wish you well.

Just a note, I have read that PD patients should avoid saunas due to the risk of infection.

[Hanify]

Good luck to you.  As YL said, most people here are honestly just concerned that readers won't try something they shouldn't.  I guess some of us are just old cynics and the number of posts/emails etc you have sent somehow make us think of sales people.  But hey, good luck with it if it works for you - but I'll be mighty irritated if I find out you do sell saunas!

[del]

I would be interested to see an article on how long somebody lived using sauna therapy if their kidney's were not working at all.   Personally I can not see any doctor recommending this type of treatment to any patient with severe kidney failure.  I can see saunas or any sweating removing fluid but not toxins.  I would want to see studies done and blood work results of people who used just sauna treatments and those who did dialysis treatments.  If this was true and really worked why would so much money be spent on dialysis treatments and transplants??? 

[cariad]

I doubt there is any scientific information on how long someone lived using sauna therapy instead of dialysis. The two case studies I saw on uremic frost stated that the individuals lived 2 days in one case and one week in the other. It seems from this limited data (in peer-reviewed medical journals) that once uremic frost appears, it is probably too late for any medical intervention to save the individual. I wouldn't consider this a gift in any respect.

I have no doubt that the skin can take over a small amount of function for the kidneys, but nothing close to dialysis. And 40% function? Please, I had that 20 years ago with my transplanted kidney. Saunas or no saunas, you could live a very long time with that sort of function if you are lucky.

[Hanify]

Just as a matter of interest - have other people received a PM from Billybill about this?

[monrein]

Yes, I got one, replied to it, got another but I don't have anything more to say about the topic.

[Hanify]

Definitely starting to sound like a sauna salesman to me!  The funny thing was, the pm was addressed to Paul so he didn't even look to see if I was female,  and also didn't know me at all - i.e assumed I did haemo.  It had the feel of a bulk message....I have a bad feeling about Billybill!

[YLGuy]

Yes, I got a PM from Billybill

[okarol]

If you are already on dialysis I do not recommend you stop dialysis when you start saunaing. I'm simple sharing my personal journey with others.
   

[Rerun]

I'm surprised you all aren't trying to get "Medicare" to pay for a Sauna in all your homes. 

Do not Kill Bill!   What is our largest organ?  No, not that!  It is our Skin!
Even if it does not take the place of dialysis it could really help with our dialysis struggles.  Too much fluid.... thus cramping...aka SALT.

I've seriously thought that sweating has helped my regular dialysis results.  Zach sweats through exercise.  I'm lazy so a sauna sounds great to me. 

In the summer I go sit in my HOT car for 5 minutes until the sweat is rolling off my face.  Then I go have a nice 6oz glass of cold water for FREE!  No dialysis restricted precious fluid.  I call it cheating!

It is something to think about.  I've already asked my Nephrologist about it 4 years ago.  He WENT off on me and was blithering about "that is as stupid as dialysis through bowel movements".  Well, hey, that gets rid of Phosphorus.

 I think a Sauna is an aid to dialysis.  I know my labs are great in the summer.

Keep us posted Bill.           

[glitter]

My husband also used sweating as an aid to drink more in summer- he used sauna suits- but you have to be careful, because of impaired kidney function you can upset the delicate balance of necessary salt in your body. You cant upset the electrolyte balance without impeding heart function. If you used it in moderation, with the clear understanding that it in NO WAY removes enough toxins to substitute dialysis, I do think it could benefit you. IF your DR says its okay for YOU. Like many others here pointed out-saunas can be damn dangerous for people with impaired health. This stuff just worries me so much- I would hate to see someone take advice that could hurt them, and I think before you post about something that could be potentially deadly, you should have irrefutable proof that its safe. There is always someone who will only read part of something and then try it 'to see if it works' 

[KICKSTART]

Rerun ..i am a bit concerned that you say , you sit in your hot car for 5 mins till sweat runs down your face , then drink a 6 oz glass of water for free.  How can it be for free? Ok so sweating isnt bad , but the fact is you cant measure it can you? What might seem a lot of sweat running down you might not even be an ounce to be honest.

[del]

My hubby can drink a lot more when he sweats if he didn't he would dehydrate!!! In the summer he often has to have a drink before he hooks up to dialysis to have enough fluid on to be over his dry weight!!!  We have found that if he is dehydrated his BUN and creatinine is higher!!!

[kitkatz]

I have to laugh at the snake oil they try to get us to believe here.  A suana!    Maybe the Swiss had an idea with the saunas and cold pools plunges!

[Zach]

More on saunas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna

Come join us in the IHD Sauna!   

[Jean]

Oh, what a relief. I also got a couple of PM's from billybill. I thought I was the only one and I was wondering why, when I am so new to this. Glad to hear some of you got them also.

[okarol]

From wikipedia: (Thanks Zach)

Saunas can also be dangerous due to the risk of heat prostration or the even more serious hyperthermia. Children and older persons who have heart disease or seizure disorders or those who use alcohol or cocaine are especially vulnerable. Prolonged stay in a sauna may lead to loss of electrolyte from the body, the same as after rigorous exercise. Risks of dehydration leading to heat stroke in more sensitive individuals can occur and may be reduced by regular sipping of water or isotonic drinks, but not alcohol, during the sauna. Sauna bathing and heavy drinking of alcoholic beverages, and also sauna bathing during hangover phase can undoubtedly create real health risks.

Many of the sauna therapeutic trials used a regular schedule of at least 5 days a week and often daily for one to three months, then several times a week for extended periods. In some countries the local gymnasium is usually the closest and most convenient and some pool, major sport, or even resort complexes also contain a sauna. Therapeutic Sauna is often carried out in conjunction with physiotherapy or hydrotherapy, gentle exercises within the capability of the person without exacerbating symptoms.