Nationalized Healthcare in the US. Your views appreciated.

[bioya]

President Obama has made it clear from the day he started his quest for the White House that he was in favor of nationalized Healthcare in the US (of some kind). I know politics and religion are two things you are not suppose to discuss but I think this is important. I for one voted for Mr. Obama and as a RN I think that everyone deserves the same service and the same treatment when it comes to healthcare. Having said that, I wonder what if anything will happen to dialysis patients in the US if we go to some form of national plan such as Canada and/or England and other areas have.

As a FA for Gambro/DaVita we were told time and time again that “we” did not want a national healthcare plan because (in simple terms) “we” would lose money as a company. You know, DVA and FMC and others want an increase in medicare reimbursement and they love.. LOVE…. LOVE… the private insurance patient (called HIPPERS).  DaVita even has an entire division devoted to HIPPER growth. Now that is not good or bad in my opinion, I really could care less (other than what I perceive as greed on the part of DaVita).

First I think that national healthcare would be good as everyone would be covered, but in the same breath, I worry that we will be told … “hey, you are over age (whatever) and therefore you do not qualify for dialysis (or other medical treatment) because you exceed age (whatever). Unless you have money for treatment, you will not qualify for national healthcare”.  Sorry that was long but I was trying to get my point across.

As a FA for over six years they beat it in our heads that national healthcare would disqualify people based on age and other conditions. Is there anyone here that has national healthcare and if so, what is your take on the direction that the US may be heading??  As I stated I really like the idea that everyone is covered but then  I worry that people will be excluded from various treatments due to other issues (age, etc).  My views have always been if we can spend billions on war, we can afford to take care of our citizens.

Ok, enough rambling… Do you have any thoughts or any experiences that could or would help me to better understand the issues that are about to come up in the debates for national healthcare?  Constructive thoughts would be appreciated.

If you have a reply that you would rather not post here, you can email me at the following addy;   usarmye7ret@gmail.com    Thanks and god bless!




Edited: Moved to proper section - Dialysis: General Discussion - okarol/admin

[Adam_W]

I personally think nationalized healthcare is bad. Yes, on the surface it does look ideal, and I would love to see everyone get health coverage. But, having come from a country that HAS socialized healthcare, I know we'd be sacrificing quality. My personal concern is that since I do daily dialysis, I would be knocked back to three times/week because the extra treatments may be too expensive. I'm still in the process of learning more about the subject. I left Canada long before I had any kind of health problem, so I can't really give any direct insight regarding dialysis, but I do know I would not like it if this country goes down the same path.

Adam

[paul.karen]

i think Obama is trying to turn America into an entitlement country.

Free everything.  A real robin hood he is eh.

As for our healthcare.

We do need an overhaul to say the least.
Socialized NOPE

Government cant run themselves.
And know they are running GM-Housing-banks and have ruined medicare Medicaid and SS>

Spending is not the way we need to cut back.

Yup we need an overhaul but we dont need anything else to be run by the government.
And Adam kudos to you for speaking out about Canada's healthcare system. Some here as well as Michael Moore would disagree with you

[dialysisbiller]

oiy!! it's a mess

as a parent of five kids, there were times we went without health coverage (4 years one time) and didn't qualify for medicaid because my husband's unemployment was too much ..... which is a sore subject for me because we treat illegals better than nationals who contribute taxes.

you cannot fix this issue in a single swoop..... the gap in insurance is wide.... i'd like to see some reform... it's a giant monster right now

people get up in arms about having a government program because they want to have choices in providers.... if you're on an HMO or any managed plan, you don't have much choice anyhow... at this point, I pay extra to have an open end policy because I want choices.

My family is from Canada and the UK, can't tell you how many times I have to hear 'you should have health benefits like we do'..... well, we don't.... and we don't have the extra tax the way Canada does for the healthcare.... people complain now about their taxes being taken from their paychecks, can you imagine taking more? tho when you think about it, if you pay a portion of your insurance from your paycheck anyhow, what is the difference?

When my husband finally got a Union job, the health benefits are a part of the package and he did not have to pay out of the paycheck for health coverage and it was a great policy.

I think providers are scared because when you hear government health coverage, you know you get paid the least from any government plan and they(providers) depend on private/commercial patients to gap the losses from government patients. If you work in the health industry on the billing/collecting/insurance end, you know what I mean.

I definitely agree with bioya  with spending so much on the 'war' why can't we spend some on the health of our people that are here and I do mean here legally. (another subject for another time)

[rookiegirl]

What is the difference between the following healthcare?

Socialized Healthcare
Nationalized Healthcare
Universal Healthcare

I remembered watching a documnetary by Michael Moore on HMO "Sicko" talking about Universal Healthcare.  From the documentary, this is what I want for America.

[paul.karen]

So many people think the goverment will SAVE US.

Read a few articles you can google thousands of them from veterans who get free medical.  Many die waiting to get in if there is even rom for them.
Now the Veterans hospital is only a very small percentage of what obama wants to do.  Maybe less then 5%.
Here is just one story read the stuff at the very bottom.  These are the words of people fighting for our freedoms and not getting treatments once they come home.  You think we will fear any better?? 

Dying veteran says busy VA hospital refused to admit him
William R. Levesque, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Thursday, October 16, 2008


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Carroll was visited by sister Nancy McEndree while at Zephyr Haven Health & Rehab Center in Zephyrhills in August. 
 [MIKE PEASE | Times]

ZEPHYRHILLS — Veteran James Carroll is supposed to get free and complete medical care from the Department of Veterans Affairs.

The trick is getting in the door.

Carroll, 64 and dying of chronic lymphocytic leukemia, said the James A. Haley VA Medical Center in Tampa has repeatedly refused to admit him for a reason that is no fault of his own:

Haley is too crowded.

So the Zephyrhills resident said he has been forced to get care outside the VA medical system, personally accumulating thousands of dollars in medical expenses that he thinks the VA should pay.

The VA refuses.

Some veteran advocates say Carroll is one of many veterans around the nation who have been denied access to VA health care and then forced to foot their own medical bills when they seek care elsewhere.

"I was a good soldier," said Carroll, an Air Force veteran who served four years ending in 1968. "I did what I was told. I don't want to break the VA's bank. I don't want anything that should not be mine. But the government needs to keep its word to me."

Carroll has been forced out of his rental home for lack of rent money. He is living in a trailer on family property near his sister.

The VA has told Carroll that because he has insurance — Medicare — the agency is not responsible for any costs he incurs outside the VA.

Carroll said he owes thousands of dollars — he has lost track of the exact figure — in co-pays and deductibles not covered by Medicare.

The VA said in a statement that federal law ties its hands and that it is not allowed to cover medical costs for veterans in Carroll's predicament.

"It's a disgrace," said Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, an advocacy group frequently critical of the VA. "And it's difficult for veterans who are very ill to fight a big bureaucracy alone."

Haley officials say they cannot discuss Carroll's case because of privacy concerns.

But Carolyn Clark, a spokeswoman for Haley, said the hospital, one of the busiest VA facilities in the nation, has made great strides in reducing the times it turns patients away.

Such incidents are called "bypasses" and occur at all hospitals, VA or not, when their beds are full or if emergency rooms become too crowded.

"Space on the main hospital campus is a definite issue," Clark said in an e-mail. "We're working hard to free up additional bed space by expanding on-site, by reallocating space within the hospital, and by moving outpatient functions off-site."

Clark, while refusing to confirm or deny that Carroll has been turned away, said: "It's not a question that the VA is too busy to treat him. If he is an eligible veteran, we will treat him."

Carroll moved from North Carolina less than a year ago to be with his sister in Zephyrhills. A former hospital chaplain, he had been ill with leukemia for almost a decade. Doctors are unsure how long he will live.

Carroll hadn't realized he was eligible for VA care until his sister, Nancy McEndree, began investigating after he arrived in Florida. Soon, the VA decided he was eligible for full care at Haley.

Carroll believes his leukemia was caused by exposure to Agent Orange, widely used in Korea, where Carroll served in 1968.

But the VA, though agreeing to provide Carroll with medical care, refused to give him a higher disability pension that he would be eligible to get if he could prove Agent Orange caused his cancer.

The VA has said it will pay him a $1,500-per-month pension, though Carroll has yet to see a dime. The amount might be nearly doubled if Agent Orange is ever found to be the cause of his illness.

Carroll has been able to get his drugs from Haley without cost. And he has visited doctors there. The problem comes when he is so sick that he needs to be admitted.

In May, McEndree first called paramedics when her brother was having difficulty breathing. Paramedics told her, she said, that they couldn't take Carroll to Haley because it was too packed.

Why wouldn't the VA send Carroll to the VA's Bay Pines hospital in St. Petersburg or some other VA facility?

Carroll, relatively new to the area, and his sister didn't realize the VA had a second hospital in Pinellas. So they said they never thought to ask about going there.

And in any case, a Haley spokeswoman said, the VA prefers that in emergencies, paramedics take veterans to the closest alternative hospital.

After that first hospitalization, McEndree said, her husband called Haley the next day to ask that Carroll be transferred.

"They said they couldn't take him for at least a month," McEndree said.

McEndree said she called the VA up to 10 times in the subsequent months. Each time, she said, she was told the hospital was too full to accept Carroll. The last time she said she was told that was about three weeks ago.

Carroll's health has been up and down since he started living in Florida, and he has been admitted to a non-VA hospital up to five times for varying lengths of time.

Last week, Carroll was admitted to Florida Hospital Zephyrhills for heart problems related to his leukemia. Carroll, who has long outlived doctors' expectations, was released Wednesday after six days.

To Carroll, VA rules are a maddening injustice.

"It's blatantly unfair," he said. "There's no justification for this. Bureaucrats are making the decisions, not doctors. And they're playing God."

William R. Levesque can be reached at (813) 226-3436 or levesque@sptimes.com



[Last modified: Oct 20, 2008 02:10 PM]




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carol from pascoOct 20th, 2008 2:10 AM

WHAT A DISGRACE!!! YES, AGENT ORANGE WAS USED IN VIETNAM AND KOREA.HOPE YOU CAN GET THE CARE YOU DESERVE AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN IF NOT FROM THE ARMED SEVICES. LETS TAKE CARE OF ALL AMERICANS.
ralph from Port RicheyOct 20th, 2008 2:10 AM

art, You obviously are not 65 yet and on Medicare. When that happens you are entitled to the free care with tri-care for life as an additional provider. The 22 years gives you retirement rights. Check out tricare for life.
Tony from OldsmarOct 17th, 2008 11:49 AM

Call Bill Young's Office, Beverly Young will get you treated (727) 893-3191. I wish I could vote for Bill Young, just because of his wife. She never stops helping service men & women. Gus Bilirakis can learn alot from the Youngs.
nam vet widow from nprOct 17th, 2008 11:48 AM

can anyone say ADVOCATE? Go to the local VFW, or other vets org and ask for one to help untangle this...
maria from st peteOct 17th, 2008 11:48 AM

If he has no money, he can apply for medicaid as a supplement to his Medicare and they will pay all the co-insurance and co-pays. It's worth applying for
art from tallyOct 17th, 2008 11:48 AM

I'm a retired vet with 22 years service. If I use V A I still have to pay a co-pay beause I don't have a service connected problem. I was promised free medical care when I joined the military over 40 years ago. NO I have to pay for it.some promis.
Paul from reporter 66@yahoo.comOct 17th, 2008 6:14 AM

I seriously doubt someone told the Dr. they could not get him admitted for a month.The facts of this story seem fabricated.Why didn't the reporter refer the family to a medical professional within the VA, rather than sit on the story for a month.
BN from OklahomaOct 17th, 2008 6:12 AM

I'm need help myself from being turned away from the VAMC in Oklahoma with acute kidney failure. I am 100% SC P&T and I haven't been treated in 6 years. My medical private costs came to over $100k all paid with loans. Female vets suffer the most!!!
Sandie from Spring Hill, Fl.Oct 17th, 2008 6:01 AM

I think that this country should do all they can for any person serving or has served in our military. If not for them, we would not be able to voice this opinion. They are the body guards of this country, TAKE CARE OF THEM!!!
JR from Spring HillOct 16th, 2008 11:29 AM

The VA. should take care of the poor guy.Someone also needs to explain to his sister the VA isn't going to give him any money. If he can prove this is service related, he will be given money from Social Security.
Claire from LargoOct 16th, 2008 11:29 AM

For some people socialized medicine is the ONLY way they will get ANY care at all...so what is there to lose? MOST people don't have 5 grand to throw around. Mccain thinks everyone has this kind of money? NOT. At least Oboma is a start for something
helen from palm harborOct 16th, 2008 11:29 AM

hmm, yesterday Cheney got free heart procedure and didn't have to wait--oh he didn't serve in the armed forces, did he?
Dawn from HudsonOct 16th, 2008 11:29 AM

I certainly can sympathize with this mans' situation. However to the best of my knowledge 4 years doesn't entitle him to free medical. Those who served 20 were, and we are having to pay for it too. Don't expect the government to do the right thing.
Bill from LevesqueOct 16th, 2008 11:29 AM

Many readers are under the impression that Agent Orange was only used in Vietnam. In fact, the military has acknowledged that the pesticide was used in Korea along the DMZ in the late 1960s.
Fred from St peteOct 16th, 2008 11:28 AM

je is right, this article is slanted to create "news" and marketing for the newspaper and slander VA. Jerry is right on the money. Anonymous needs to stick his head back into the sand so McCrazy has a place to park.
Fred from St PeteOct 16th, 2008 11:28 AM

Wrong braxton, Agent Orange was used in Korea and VA acknowledges it for service connected disability compensation purposes. Fee Basis is generally for using private medical facilities to treat SERVICE CONNECTED disabilities. Field stations are reminded that we do have significant information regarding Agent Orange use in Korea along the DMZ. DoD has confirmed that Agent Orange was used from April 1968 up through July 1969 along the DMZ. DoD defoliated the fields of fire between the front line defensive positions and the south barrier fence. The size of the treated area was a strip of lane 151 miles long and up to 350 yards wide from the fence to north of the "civilian control line." There is no indication that herbicide was sprayed in the DMZ itself. Herbicides were applied through hand spraying and by hand distribution of pelletized herbicides. Although restrictions were put in place to lilmit potential for spray drift, run-off, and damage to food crops, records ind
Ann from ClearwaterOct 16th, 2008 10:54 AM

Just show up at Bay Pines and wait in the ER until you can be evaluated. Don't leave. If you've got paperwork approving you for medical care, then take a seat and invite a news reporter to sit with you and wait.
Anonymous from HudsonOct 16th, 2008 10:11 AM

If the government can't even seem to get VA medical treatment correct, what in the world makes people think they will successfully socialize medicine for the entire country??!!! DO NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA! SOCIALIZED MEDICINE DOES NOT WORK!!!
aldo from apdoOct 16th, 2008 10:02 AM

so you moved to fl. to get medical attention,,,bad move,,,what what wrong with the hosp were you lived? tenn, has a lg hospital there,,there is a reason for the v.a. not to treat ya ,,like they say they cant talk about it,, weird but they have rules
Gosh from Port RicheyOct 16th, 2008 10:02 AM

The bBush adminstrations policy for veterans is " let them die then we don't have to pay anything any more " This administration has done evreything it could to cut back on veterans benifits. I don't see how Bush can get anyone to fight his wars.

[Rerun]

Look folks!  If you have been on dialysis for over 30 months you are on a National Health Care System and it is called Medicare!! 

I have a secondary Health Care and so I should be worth more to these places but I'm not.  NO priority for paying more.  That is Socialized Medicine.

Those of you who currently have private health care and go into ER..... will NOT get treated first.  It is "get in Line" baby.  No priority for paying more.... That is Socialized Medicine!

My dialysis center in the United States ran out of 15 and 16 gage needles and Paper Tape!  Why didn't they go get some TAPE at Wallgreens?!?  That would cut into the profit margin!  Pigs at the Medicare trough is what these Clinics are!!!!!

I will love nothing more than to see these clinics and doctors and drug companies brought down.    Even if I have to die watching!  They have taken advantage way too long! 

The doctors and nurses will STAY because it will still be the highest paying job around.  They may just have to sell their third vacation home!!

Canada has single needle dialysis for their nocturnal patients because it is better for their fistulas.  Can't get that in the United States.  Why?  Costs more!!!

Will people be left off dialysis because they are too sick or too old?  Yeah!  I am tired of old and dying people being drug into dialysis just so the docs and clinic get a Medicare check.  Poor people begging to be taken off and just want to go HOME! 

And about war?  You think when we are taken over by Iran we will be treated better?  Really?

Bring on Socialized Medicine!  I've been living on it already for a long time and so have you... you just don't know it.

                                                             

[paul.karen]

 

I love your gumption Rerun ...

Obamas plan is what it is.  Some will like ti some wont.
I CANT STRESS ENOUGH we need reform.  You are one of the ones who think the government will save us all i guess .
Your taxs wont go up maybe??
Mine will go skyhigh.  im sick and tired of paying for EVERYONE elses cars houses and problems.  I work i obey the law leave me the F alone and let me live MY LIFE without paying for everyone elses life.
All children should be coved till the age of (18) if in college till the graduate.
All handicapped people should have medical.
Gangsters/drug addicts/convicts/alcoholics/ and so many more people who choose not to be productive when they very well could be productive.  Ah schucks yeah ill pay for them all i guess.  I mean since i work hard for my money you may as well take it and give it to whoever you like.  If they choose not to be productive while they are healthy let me suffering with ESRD take care of those well bodied gangsters and drug addicts.  If i loose my internet connection and cable tv it will all be worth it in the end.  Just cause i work HARD for what i have doesnt mean i actually need the stuff i worked so hard to get.  My neighbors bought there home yeah there on welfare which i actually pay for.  They have a Cadillac and a Lexus and now the government is taking more of my money to help them pay for there house.
There kids dont go to school yet they hang out at the school??
They saw my pool when they moved in and came over to ask me how i take care of it.  They took me to there backyard and said there pool isnt above ground like mine is.  Can i show them how to maintain it.   Well i did but there kids who dont go to school are to lazy to skim the leaves off the pool.  So once a week they have a pool company come vacuum and put chemicals in there pool.  This only costs about $100 a week.  I wonder if they would pay me that money if i did the work.  Maybe then i would actually get some of MY money back and be able to get my cable turned back on??

They are talking about putting a heater in there pool.  Im gonna talk to them and let them know im not sure if i can afford that for them.

Since i am actually ESRD  CKD stage 5 i dont actually have to work huh?  Can i legally go on disability or something?  What do i need a doctors note.  There are plenty of suckers like me working.  Maybe it is time i get my free America money on.

[Rerun]

Paul I agree.  But, this country has gone too far left to discriminate against people who don't work.  I don't think it can be brought back to:  If you need help you go apply and get it.  And that means if your age 23 and 25 kids are at home laying around you don't get it. 

Heaven forbid we tell someone to get off their lazy ass and work.  They would scream discrimination and that is a hate crime. 

I am one of the many sucking off the system and I hate, hate, hate, it.  But, I've had so many problems with my access I would be embarrassed to work for someone.  Calling in sick is really hard for me.  I hate people like me!  Maybe I'm learning tolerance.  I think I have a long way to go.   

You are right Paul, and I hope we get what you are asking for.   

[paul.karen]

Im sorry i went on a rant

Rerun you are not one of the ones sucking the system.  You are the kind of person who deserves the services that you get.  You are really sick you are not working the system so to say.
Maybe i just know and see to many people using the system wrongly and im the one who is tainted with an inner hatred for people abusing the system.
I am all for helping 100% the people who need the help for real.

[Adam_W]

I don't know how many times I've felt guilty of "sucking off the system". I hate the fact that I can't work for my own living. I have to keep reminding myself that I don't rely on "the system" because I want to, but because I physically can't work right now. It just disgusts me when I see so many people who CAN work that are abusing welfare/social security/medicare etc. because they refuse to get off their arse and work for what they want and need. Some people just suck.

Adam

[monrein]

I very much appreciate the health care system in Canada although it is not without problems.  No system is perfect.  I have a lot of experience with dialysis in two Canadian provinces and obviously have been to many doctors, primary care well as specialists, over the years.  I choose my own doctors, I feel that I have so far received excellent and timely care, I requested D 5 days a week instead of 2 and was switched to 5 days in less than two weeks, I requested buttonholes and the self-care clinic (my choice again) got them in for me, we had a choice of three different types of tape and 4 different bandages, etc. 

We pay a lot of taxes.  When I was paying mine because I was working and had a good job I was happy that I was healthy enough to be productive and able to pay for those who were not able.  I believe in a society where the vulnerable are protected and I also believe that the vast majority of people want to participate in society by working to get the things they need.  There is a percentage of deadbeats, who expect a free ride but I think they are in a definite small minority.  I have worked with families who struggle with pretty severe poverty and most were not happy about their situation.  Far from it.

I do not have children but I happily pay school taxes to help educate other people's children because it is a value I believe in.  I feel the same way about health care.  I don't hold as a value the "I'm OK so too bad about you" view of society.  I feel that I get good value for my taxes and only wish that I could still be out there paying more into the system than I am receiving. 

There will always be those who abuse any system.  Corporate expense accounts and business tax write-offs are often abused, but by the wealthy so we tend to judge less harshly.  Even if there is an adult who is "undeserving" for any kind of reason, I believe that we, as a society, have a certain duty of care for innocent children who don't choose their parents and who ought not to have to pay the price of appalling health care access because irresponsible adults made unwise choices.

This is not a simple matter.  It is not black or white.  This will never be a perfect world and they are many issues within the Canadian system that we must address.  Health care is a resource, like many others, and must be managed.  It is different than other businesses  however by it's intrinsic nature.  Illness is most often not a choice, treatment of a serious illness is not a pleasure or a luxury.  I'd like to see us, as a society, promote greater individual responsibility for keeping ourselves healthy through exercise and good eating habits, not smoking or abusing alcohol or drugs and then I'd like us to collectively agree to help those who are ill and vulnerable.  This is one of the reasons I live where I do, by a choice made many years ago and which I've never regretted.   Almost all of my family live in the US, this simply works better for me.

[Rerun]

Monrein, I can see why you like living in Canada.  It doesn't scare me to go to Socialized Medicine.  It will take the greed motivator out of the equation (I'm hoping). 

                           

[cariad]

Rerun, I sympathize with how you dislike not being able to work, because I feel the same way. I also detest calling in sick, and could not imagine working right now because I would be calling in more often than not, which would make me feel like a burden to those workers around me.

Our healthcare system has never made any sense to me. Tying one's access to health to their ability to work is something I have found ludicrous ever since I can remember. My husband immigrated to America from Britain, dazzled by the higher salaries and lower tax rate. He did not consider the health care part of the equation, because as a young, single person whose company was furnishing excellent healthcare free of charge, he did not need to worry about such things.

Then the poor guy met me. And for added fun, his industry collapsed. We have six months left on COBRA. Private insurance is no longer an option, and I don't trust it anyway. We have to get insurance through his employer, and his employer is trying desperately to afford it. My husband has warned his employer that if he does not get a health plan in place in the very near future, we are moving back to Britain. My kids will not go one day in this country without adequate health coverage.

If my parents had not had insurance for me, I would be dead today, without question. Every time I step into a transplant hospital, it is made crystal clear to me what their real concern is. What other group of patients is asked point-blank "What's your annual income?" as part of the 'selection' process? It is ghastly, shameful, and disgusting to me that this country allows and encourages this practice. It is none of the social worker's flipping business what we make, what our assets are, or anything else.

(Oops, my computer decided to post this before I was done. I'll try to wrap this up now.)
I guess in short, I want universal health care. I don't know the particulars of how it will work, but having seen the British system in action and used it myself a time or two, I will take that over this degrading nonsense any day. I know I am an excellent candidate for transplant. I have great insurance (for now, anyway), we have reasonable financial resources, I have a live donor, and I am still considered on the young side for a transplant patient. The surgeons look positively alarmed when I tell them that if I cannot get the transplant I want in this country, my husband and I are moving to Britain and we will get it there. I have asked them why I should get it here if I could get the same thing in Britain for a fraction of the cost. They do no have an answer to that.

[Rerun]

Rerun, I sympathize with how you dislike not being able to work, because I feel the same way. I also detest calling in sick, and could not imagine working right now because I would be calling in more often than not, which would make me feel like a burden to those workers around me.

Our healthcare system has never made any sense to me. Tying one's access to health to their ability to work is something I have found ludicrous ever since I can remember. My husband immigrated to America from Britain, dazzled by the higher salaries and lower tax rate. He did not consider the health care part of the equation, because as a young, single person whose company was furnishing excellent healthcare free of charge, he did not need to worry about such things.

Then the poor guy met me. And for added fun, his industry collapsed. We have six months left on COBRA. Private insurance is no longer an option, and I don't trust it anyway. We have to get insurance through his employer, and his employer is trying desperately to afford it. My husband has warned his employer that if he does not get a health plan in place in the very near future, we are moving back to Britain. My kids will not go one day in this country without adequate health coverage.

If my parents had not had insurance for me, I would be dead today, without question. Every time I step into a transplant hospital, it is made crystal clear to me what their real concern is. What other group of patients is asked point-blank "What's your annual income?" as part of the 'selection' process? It is ghastly, shameful, and disgusting to me that this country allows and encourages this practice. It is none of the social worker's flipping business what we make, what our assets are, or anything else.

(Oops, my computer decided to post this before I was done. I'll try to wrap this up now.)
I guess in short, I want universal health care. I don't know the particulars of how it will work, but having seen the British system in action and used it myself a time or two, I will take that over this degrading nonsense any day. I know I am an excellent candidate for transplant. I have great insurance (for now, anyway), we have reasonable financial resources, I have a live donor, and I am still considered on the young side for a transplant patient. The surgeons look positively alarmed when I tell them that if I cannot get the transplant I want in this country, my husband and I are moving to Britain and we will get it there. I have asked them why I should get it here if I could get the same thing in Britain for a fraction of the cost. They do no have an answer to that.

Thank you for posting this.  Excellent!   

[Sunny]

I am all for some sort of national health care plan. I know of and have read of too many people without healthcare who lose everything they have when they become sick. We don't choose to be sick, it just happens. Part of living in a civilized society means being obligated to each other. I feel making sure everyone in our society has health coverage is a social obligation. No one should fall through the cracks when it comes to healthcare. We simply cannot have a society of "have and have nots" where the issue of whether one lives or dies, succeeds or fails, depends on whether one has enough money to buy health care. Since my husband is employed, we have health insurance and we still pay $500 per month for two adults and two children. I would be happy to continue paying my fair share of health care each month if I knew everyone else paid too and that everyone else was insured. I seriously think health costs would go down if we all paid into a plan and we were all insured. I pay for all of those uninsured's anyway through higher premiums. I also believe it would create greater competition and lower premiums if everyone was forced to have health insurance and got to choose among plans. Additionally, we need more oversight of the health insurance companies who pretty much do whatever they want.

[dialysisbiller]

but where do you draw the line?

currently there are millions without health AND are working.... US citizens paying taxes and still cannot get coverage because they aren't offered through their employer or they just can't afford to put out the money weekly from their check, small business owners that can't afford it..... the working poor who don't qualify for medicaid because you have to basically earn zip to qualify. Some states offer pretty good chip programs but even when I didn't have coverage for my family (4 kids and my husband and myself) the CHIP program wanted money because were weren't below poverty to qualify for 'free' assistance. The gap is HUGE! Millions not covered that fall into the gap.

Oh but if you're an illegal and you fall ill and show up at a hospital, they have 'indigent' programs that pay providers, like a dialysis company once a patient is released and may need dialysis and contract to pay the full amount or close to it, and I am talking about gross charged amount (you know, that $55,000 you see on that EOB but your insurance pays maybe 10% of it).... that's messed up. How can someone who isn't legally in this country get free medical care? I just will never get that. 

The whole system is messed up and Obama isn't going to be able to fix it overnight. This is a decades long fix but it'd be nice to see it start.

And yes, if a dialysis company isn't allowed to advertise on the TV why should drug companies be allowed? I can remember working for a Physicians office and patient's telling doctors they think they need drugs like Celebrex and Viioxx, turns out those drugs are killers now and have done some serious damage. Crazy stuff.

[aharris2]

"... in the same breath, I worry that we will be told … “hey, you are over age (whatever) and therefore you do not qualify for dialysis (or other medical treatment) because you exceed age (whatever)..."

I would like to see some comments on the statement above (excerpted from bioya's original post). I am a proponent of nationalized, socialized healthcare, but this is a concern. With eyes wide open, I am sure that "for profits" wouldn't hesitate to throw around statements like that to polarize the public against equal coverage for all. Also, are people excluded from treatment simply because of other "comorbidities"?

Canada, Britain (and anyone else with first hand experience) please comment!

[monrein]

Here in Canada there is no age limit on who gets dialysis.  It is not rationed in any way as far as I am aware.  I know several nursing home residents who dialyze routinely and who are transported at no cost to them for their sessions.  Of course there are always decisions being made about who gets a transplant since, like everywhere, kidneys are a scarce commodity.   
Here is a recent NYT article on this topic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/business/economy/17leonhardt.html?_r=1

I have often heard substantial misinformation about our system by others (mostly Americans) but my experiences do not correspond with these scare stories.

[Beth35]

I think there are absolutley kinks to work out but it's something that NEEDS to be worked out.  Everyone deserves health care.  As a person who has never made a LOT of money and who probably never will, it kills me so often to see how money really buys happiness and so much more.  People can get better medical treatment, better doctors, better schools, better/safer homes in safer environments, better/safer transportation, access to things that make you happy such as vacations and entertainment.  Heck money can determine whether you have a child or not.

You should NOT have to have money to have access to health insurance.  There are millions of people out there, due to no fault of their own, who do not have health insurance.  I am in a position I never thought I would be in as far as insurance goes.  If I go on disability, they will fire me after my FMLA leave.  Then I will lose my benefits.  My children will no longer have benefits.  I will have to find a medigap insurance which they tell me could deny me because of a preexisting condition.  It SUCKS to have to be sick and worry about this too!  We need health care for everyone.

I have a friend in Canada who was going to give her kidney to her very sick cousin.  They found a tumor on my friends kidney while testing to see if she was a good candidate.  She no sooner told us the news before they had her in to have the procedure and she is doing great!

[RichardMEL]

I can't speak for the situation in the US(other than it sounds difficult and unfair for a lot of people) or Canada but I can speak for the aussie system, which I think is close to Canada's of socialised medicare

Here everyone is covered by (our) Medicare - certainly for dialysis. There are absolutely no age limits. A lot of older patients get free medical transport to/from the clinic (now sometimes due to capacity funding this isn't exactly timely and can get frustrating for the patients that use it but at least the system does pay for it and offer it). While we do have private clinics that I think charge around $A600/session, a lot of private insurance will pay for that stuff so it is worth it to some, otherwise the public health pays for it all (around $85,000/pa for the average hemo patient like moi). This includes single use stuff like all the lines and needles and stuff, heparin, EPO shots given in center plus other stuff like hep V vacinations, IV iron doses and all that good stuff. Other meds like phosphate binders, sensipar etc are covered by the PBS system that they're heavily subsidised such that those on health consessions only pay $5 for a month's supply. $32 if you're not on a concession). I feel the service and caring I get from the public system here is pretty good. I know I am in good hands with the staff who are highly skilled as well as just really genuine nice people (and the odd stromtropper!). Now obviously some things are far from ideal (as poor Ang knows) and some non urgent procedures can take some time to get happening, but when stuff needs doing (like fistula grams or whatnot) they are right on it. I really cannot complain. Also they heavily support home hemo and will organise all the plumbing and other stuff needed for a machine(they provide/service etc) and of course supplies. I am sure they support nightly home hemo of 6/7 days if people want/need it (eg: Lucinda). About the only thing we don't have here is something like NxStage.

I am sitting here typing this at work - and I know I am one of the very lucky ones to be able to hold down a mostly full time job and Dialysis and I am more than happy to pay for the taxes to support such a system - specially since when the time/opportunity comes for transplant they will obviously pay for all that AND the post transplant meds and all that are again covered under the PBS scheme - and not for a time limit but for as long as you need it (unless some govt changes its mind which is always possible - specially in these tougher economic times).

There is one other point that comes to mind when comparing countries like Canada, Austraiia, even the UK and the USA.. I think there's a massive difference in population to consider and demands on the system. Australia has just over 20 million people. I am not sure how many are on Dialysis but it would have to be only in the 10's of thousands (about 1300 or so on the transplant list IIRC). I am not sure about Canada but we know they have what, close to 100,000 on the waiting list and hundreds of thousands of people on Dialysis? it's at least an order of magnitude(or several)more... and that is a massive burden. I am not saying the US shouldn't support dialysis/transplant folks more - absolutely they should.. I'm just saying that it probably needs to be considered when comparing different countries.

[plugger]

I've watched this debate over national health care for sometime now.  When I hear about the waiting times in Canada, I notice it isn't mentioned it has been mostly for elective procedures.  I also notice a country like Taiwan, with a similar system, isn't mentioned and their NO waiting times:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89651916

Also it isn't mentioned that Germany, with it's non-profit system of insurance, beats our waiting times:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Performance-Snapshots/International-Comparisons/International-Comparison--Access---Timeliness.aspx (click on middle small image below main image)

When "choice" is talked about, I notice it isn't mentioned your choices when you are actually sick and might need choices.  Might find out your insurance isn't all you thought it was, try switching, no insurance company in it's right mind wants somebody with actual problems!

Physicians for a National Health Program has some excellent FAQs and articles:
http://www.pnhp.org/

I've been a member of Health Care for all Colorado, might be something similar in your state:
http://www.healthcareforallcolorado.org/

[dwcrawford]

This scares the hell out of me and I say right now that my opinion about reform is so conflicted.  I feel for the uninsurced even though there is Medicad.  By the same token, I'm one of those people who has always been "oversured" and at a slight financial burden.  I had access to the very best doctors and very best treatment  and I'm scared to death of losing it.  I had it before Medicare and luckily the doctors I knew and trusted were all willing to take me.  Plus the RX plans, the supplement plans, etc.  How selfish do I want to be?  I want to see my doctor in a short or reasonable length of time.  I want to check into a hospital immediately if need be.  Again, that's all me and I'm sorry.  I know about Medicare going broke in a few years... What's to keep a national plan from going broke.  Fix what you have maybe?  I'm just one of those "senior citizens" who doesn't reallyl understand the ramifications of what's new.  For me, personally, its not broke.. so don't fix it.  But how selfish can I be???

[BigSky]

It all depends on the details whether nationalized healthcare would work or not.

Things that need done though are:

Limit profits by the insurance companies in some manner.

Limit Administrative costs from the current 31% by insurance companies down to that similar of Medicare at 3%.

Mandate they take everyone similar to the current Medicare Drug Plans.

[Stoday]

The principle of the UK’s National Health Service is to contribute to it according to means and to benefit from it according to needs. Contributions are in the form of a tax plus a charge for medicines. The medicine charge is equivalent to $10 per medicine for people of working age below 60, otherwise nil. In effect, you pay much more than an insurance scheme in your youth, but benefit from free treatment in old age.

A decade ago the NHS was badly underfunded, with about half the per person funds of (e.g.) France. To match costs with income, elective surgery was subjected to long waiting times (~ a year). The gap could be filled by health insurance and private hospitals. You then twice over because there’s no opt out of the National Insurance tax.
Over the last decade funding has doubled and waiting times are now reasonable. There is no discrimination by age. The only limitation is in the supply of some new drugs that are not cost-effective.

To give you a feel of how it works for a kidney patient, I was diagnosed with failing kidneys in 2003 when I was admitted to hospital on a different matter. I got an annual check, all free. In due course, the checkups became more frequent culminating in a fistula placement this year. Surgery, dressings hospital stay and (inedible) food all free. I shall shortly be on dialysis, when treatment including pain-reducing cream will be free. I can also choose which hospital I want to go to. Moreover there’s no messing about with invoices etc.

Although I have insurance for private hospital, it doesn’t cover chronic problems, so only available for a fistula and initial consultations, not for dialysis. I didn’t use it for my kidney problems.