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Author Topic: Kidney Care Quality Improvement Act  (Read 13055 times)
Sara
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2006, 10:01:56 AM »

Even if you are right.  The cost to keep people alive on Dialysis is too high for the return.  We need congress to bring back a Board that decides if the patient is worth the thousands of tax payer dollars to keep alive.  Sounds hard, but it needs to happen so that Medicare doesn't go broke.  It is like a drain on a power supply.  Unplug a few appliances and the lights get brighter and the other appliances run smoother.

I'd much rather see the Govt. cut down on wasteful spending on items (office supplies, hotels, etc.) rather than people's lives.  As a tax payer, I don't consider keeping you or anyone else on this board alive a "drain."  I wouldn't have thought that before Joe went on dialysis either.
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Sara, wife to Joe (he's the one on dialysis)

Hemodialysis in-center since Jan '06
Transplant list since Sept '06
Joe died July 18, 2007
Rerun
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2006, 06:09:43 PM »

Sara, it is not people like us who can think and type.  It is people who don't even know what they are there for.  I see plenty of them.  Even if it weren't expensive; even if it were free, I would still think some of this is inhuman treatment.
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slothluvchunk
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2006, 07:36:22 PM »

Zach, I didn't say you weren't in center - it wasn't a "fact" I got wrong ...  sorry you didn't catch the sarcasm.
(Your avatar makes it pretty obvious you're in center - that, and reading your posts for months)

Again, I'm sorry you think I'm a "pitchman" for DaVita.  I have said and will say again, show me where the numbers are wrong, and I will gladly jump on your bandwagon.  You are essentially calling me a liar as well as a shill - and that's an insult I don't take well.



I won't try to change any more minds, as it's obvious where you all (who have responded in this thread anyway) stand on this ...  I would just ask for posterity's sake that you at least correct whatever information is false which I have presented.
My understanding is that the reimbursement rate for dialysis providers has not changed in a long time.  The numbers I pasted earlier from the CMS Manual stand behind this fact.  I've only seen counterpoints based on other parts of the composite rate (injectable drugs, etc.) but nothing refuting the original premise.
For the sake of those that will read this in the future, let's have accurate information instead of name calling.

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Zach
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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2006, 09:59:27 PM »

I won't try to change any more minds, as it's obvious where you all (who have responded in this thread anyway) stand on this ...  I would just ask for posterity's sake that you at least correct whatever information is false which I have presented.

I value the IHD community too much, so for the sake of civility:

My second post had a link to the AAMI site which explains more about the ESRD payments.  I would suggest you go there first.

The way we do this, is by contacting our congressmen and women and letting them know how we as patients are affected, and that we expect them to do their job and support legislation like this that changes lives for the better.

This can be done here
It takes less than 2 minutes, and they will contact your representatives for you, letting them know your expectations on this issue.
Legislation may not be the answer.  Besides, you didn't inform us of the full length and breadth of the so-called Kidney Care Quality Improvement Act.  It seems as if you just expect us to just take your word for it, and go to the DaVita site (which you failed to mention) and take less than two minutes to fill out the form letter.  Once Congress gets a hold of revising the ESRD program, they may screw things up.  And who, by the way, do you think might have helped write the legislation in the first place?


You may all be familiar with this topic - the Medicare compensation to dialysis providers (and how it hasn't been adjusted in something like 30 years).

The Medicare compensation to dialysis providers has been adjusted over the years.  Be careful of what you hear or read by the dialysis industry.  There's a lot of false and incomplete information being propagated by various groups to patients.

Here's the information on the composite rate you weren't told:

The composite rate was increased by 1.2 percent in 2000 and 2.4 percent in 2001.  And ...

The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 increased the composite rate by 1.6 percent in 2006.  In addition, CMS set the add-on payment at 14.7 percent of the composite rate for both freestanding ($128) and hospital-based ($132) facilities in 2006.   Meaning an increase of more than $18.80 per treatment on average was added to the composite rate this year.

Medicare's policies for paying for outpatient dialysis services changed in 2005
Beginning in 2005, the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003 (MMA) and regulations that CMS issued to implement the new law substantially changed the outpatient dialysis payments system by:

 ... paying the acquisition cost for separately billable dialysis drugs,
 ... shifting some of the profits previously associated with payments for separately billable drugs through an add-on payment to the prospective payment rate (called the composite rate) for outpatient dialysis services,
 ... adjusting the composite rate for differences in case mix, and
 ... updating the wage index and the definitions used to define the labor market areas.

Report to the Congress: Medicare Payment Policy | March 2006, submitted by MedPac:
We include the payments and costs for dialysis drugs because their use has increased significantly throughout the 1990s, and their effect on the financial performance of facilities is significant. Including these payments and costs gives a more accurate picture of the financial performance of dialysis providers and the adequacy of Medicare's payments for dialysis services.

We believe that given the design of the payment system, the long-run profit margin will be 6 percent. The industry is transitioning to the new payment system in 2006, which might result in lower profits in the short term ... It is likely that the largest four dialysis chains, who furnish 60 percent of all dialysis treatments, will attain greater margins than non-chain facilities.

The Congress should update the composite rate in calendar year 2007 by the projected rate of increase in the end-stage renal disease market basket index less half the Commission's expectation for productivity growth.

Data from industry sources show that between 1999 and 2004, the publicly held chains' net revenues grew from 9 percent to 20 percent annually. Key operational ratios for the largest chains suggest average or above-average performance in 2004:
 ... Return on equity, a key measure of capital efficiency, ranged from 21 percent to 118 percent (pre-tax).
 ... Return on total capital, a measure of how effectively a company uses capital, ranged from 20 percent to 38 percent (pre-tax).

« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 08:03:57 AM by Zach » Logged

Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
Sara
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« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2006, 04:54:04 AM »

Sara, it is not people like us who can think and type.  It is people who don't even know what they are there for.  I see plenty of them.  Even if it weren't expensive; even if it were free, I would still think some of this is inhuman treatment.

A lot of people's morals/ethics say that a valuable human life doesn't end when they are having mental problems.  It doesn't make them any less human, any less valuable as a person.  It could be argued that to just let them die because they are not coherent enough to say otherwise, would be inhumane.  Now if they left some sort of medical directive where we KNOW for a fact what they wanted for their life, that's one thing.  But I'd wager that in the vast majority of cases, there is no such directive.
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Sara, wife to Joe (he's the one on dialysis)

Hemodialysis in-center since Jan '06
Transplant list since Sept '06
Joe died July 18, 2007
Hawkeye
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« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2006, 12:16:32 PM »

Just to settle to costs of Epogen here is the price that we pay at my clinic for 1 vial of  EPOGEN M20 20M UN/ML MDV.  $245.48 is our cost.  This is a multidose vial, but if you do the math and split it up for whatever your dosage is it gives you an basic idea of what your cost would be.
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Rerun
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« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2006, 01:46:56 PM »

So how much is a thousand units.  I don't know what M UN/ML MDV MOUSE means.
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BigSky
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« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2006, 04:39:04 PM »

From that price it should be $12.274 per 1000 units


Here is a site you can use to check drug prices if you want to compare against what they are charging.

http://www.drugstore.com/templates/browse/default.asp?catid=10663&trx=GFI-0-ROTABS&trxp1=10663&trxp4=60

« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 04:40:47 PM by BigSky » Logged
Hawkeye
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« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2006, 01:04:31 PM »

So how much is a thousand units. I don't know what M UN/ML MDV MOUSE means.
Sorry I didn't think about that when I posted.

From that price it should be $12.274 per 1000 units
Yeah that seems correct, each vial is 20000 units.
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