no more free coffee

[aharris2]

With diabetes, gastroparesis, nausea caused by an empty stomach, and occasional hypotension, it's a juggling act for us. Happily the unit respects our decision.

[BigSky]

I do not need to EVER "explain" myself to you.  Especially medical history.

You wanted an essay and you got a medical study on this issue.

Even if you know a diabetic, or even work with them in the medical field, you will never be "aware" unless you are actually a diabetic. I absolutely hate it when people tell me they know how I feel, or how i have to plan every little thing I do, every second of my life. NO, they do NOT know! And they never will.

That same thing could be said about those not on dialysis.  Ohh wait isnt that you.

So are you saying you are not aware about complete kidney failure? 

I hate to interrupt, but I have noticed a pattern with a certain member who enjoys being argumentative.

Now that the political thread is closed, this member may find it pleasurable to pick a fight on another thread.

I don't think any response will be acceptable as this member's goal is simply to argue and show that you are wrong.

Not at all.  I stated my view and was attacked for it.

You might have rolled over because of it  but I do not.  I will defend my view just as I expect others to defend their view especially when attacked.

BTW I was not the one who started posting the political stuff and the one who still starts such posts in the Off topic area.

BigSky I have a question... if you were in a unit that provided some sort of snack (so you would presume it was OK by the unit dietician etc to provide) would you object to that? Or are you just objecting to outside food being brought in (where it's true if you let someone bring in an apple what's to stop the pizza and sundae desert?). I could understand a "no outside food" rule since that would stop people bringing in their pizzas etc but also food that would be potentially bad for you (ever seen a dialysis patient with a banana??? ) but allow for snacks and drinks provided by the staff. That seems a reasonable compromise IMHO.

What each unit does is their business.  IF they dont want to allow it that is their right, if they want to allow it that is also their right.

Some on this board act like its us against them.  They need to lose that anger.

That whatever a unit does they disagree with is being done by the unit to punish them in some sort of way.  Its not.

If a unit wants to go to no food or drink that is their right and their are several valid reasons for doing so as well as medical studies support it.

Just because one is a customer DOESNT mean they get to do whatever they want, despite some on this board thinking since they are the customer they can do whatever they wish.

[paddbear0000]

Here is a calming image. Please look at it for a moment before posting!      

[breezysummerday]

 

[Chris]

I do not need to EVER "explain" myself to you.  Especially medical history.

Hellooo,
In this case you stated something so follow it up with an explanation, not a vague answer. You brought that upon yourself. If you can't explain your view, then what good was it to post it. I don't wan't your whole medical history. Your lack of information lends me to believe and others you do not know what you are talking about.

[BigSky]

By all means if you truly think its in control when one needs to get up multiple times every night to eat that is your opinion.  You might want to inform the medical community of your facts.  Oh wait best make sure its only those that have dealt with it a long time like you same must happen before they can say anything on the matter.


I do not need to explain anything to  you especially when you logic in the matter is faulty.

BTW As by your own words you feel that only those who have dealt with it a long time can say anything on the matter.


Which in other words would mean by your own logic you have nothing to say about complete renal failure nor dialysis since you never dealt with it a long time.

[Chris]

By all means if you truly think its in control when one needs to get up multiple times every night to eat that is your opinion.  You might want to inform the medical community of your facts.  Oh wait best make sure its only those that have dealt with it a long time like you same must happen before they can say anything on the matter.


I do not need to explain anything to  you especially when you logic in the matter is faulty.

BTW As by your own words you feel that only those who have dealt with it a long time can say anything on the matter.


Which in other words would mean by your own logic you have nothing to say about complete renal failure nor dialysis since you never dealt with it a long time.

I agree I didn't choose the best words using long time.
However, when it comes to diabetes the complications become more revelant over time for some diabetics, few may have them sooner.. As for having to eat snacks at night with the need to get up occassionally, that's not opinion, that's is talking with medical faculty and other diabetics at symposiums on diabetes. Hospitals will also do this for patients. Not all diabetics have to do that as stated before that no two diabetics are a like.

As for your debate tatics, they need some improvement. You state something and then don't want to supply information to a means of your opinion, what good is posting something then. Then you just go on attacking other members.

Get off your high horse and give members a better understanding of your view rather than  just coming back with an attack because no one fits your view. A debate is to give your opinion and sway others to your side with information you provide. Which is lacking when it comes to diabetes, but go ahead, say "I don't have to explain myself" That I know is your given answer, the cure all of all answers.

And my logic is fine about diabetes and the need to have a snack of something to eat while on dialysis. Apparently from the lack of input you provide, you have given the impression you do not know what you are talking about.

[Rerun]

I do not want a buffet at dialysis but if that ever happens I will be the first in line saving places for Kitkatz and Rerun....
I would like 1/2 a sandwhich, a fruit cup, hot tea and 6 soft Cheeto's...... that is it

when my blood pressure is low at the end of dialysis they make me drink chicken broth
it has happened two times in 4 years

Thank you for saving me a place in line.  That would be a perfect snack.... 1/2 a sandwich, a fruit cup, hot tea and 10 soft Cheeto's. 

                   

[del]

Some on this board act like its us against them.  They need to lose that anger.

By what you say here bigsky you must work for one of the units that are banning food and drink.  We are ALL entitled to our opinion and should not be attacking each other ( and yes I did look at the peaceful picture before I posted)  This issue does not really concern me anymore because hubby does home hemo and he can eat or drink whatever he wants when he is hooked to the machine!!  I think that dialysis units should have a little bit of compassion towards there patients.  Those patients have a chronic disease that without the treatment they would not be around here.  How would you feel if you were the one siting there in a dialysis chair hungry and thirsty and not allowed to have anything. Not a good feeling.

Dialysis does clean the body of toxins and also removes stuff like protein. When the protein is removed, and this happens a lot with nocturnal the body responses by craving for food to get back the protein it is missing.  Because of this the patient is usually very hungry!!

If I(or my hubby) was one  of those people that were at a dialysis unit that banned food and drink I would be kicking up h$%^!!  My voice would be heard loud and strong by everybody who I thought could help me!!  I would want sound medical reasons that would apply to everybody not just a few people!!  Why ban everyone from eating and drinking if some people are abusing it. Just deal with those people.

Bigsky if you aren't on dialysis try to put yourself in the dialysis patient's place for a while. I am not on dialysis but I have been dealing with it for the last 12 years (20 if you count pre dialysis) and it is not easy.  There are restrictions everywhere you look and to further restrict to say that you have to go sometimes for 5 or 6 hours without food or drink ( longer if doing nocturnal ) is just silly without sound medical reasons.  I have done lots of research and no where have I read that dialysis patients should not eat or drink during treatment. 

I am not attacking anyone just stating my opinion and some facts!!!







EDITED:Removed quote tag error-kitkatz,Moderator

[kitkatz]

I do not want a buffet at dialysis but if that ever happens I will be the first in line saving places for Kitkatz and Rerun....
I would like 1/2 a sandwhich, a fruit cup, hot tea and 6 soft Cheeto's...... that is it

when my blood pressure is low at the end of dialysis they make me drink chicken broth
it has happened two times in 4 years

Thank you for saving me a place in line.  That would be a perfect snack.... 1/2 a sandwich, a fruit cup, hot tea and 10 soft Cheeto's. 

                   

Thanks for saving me a place in line. 

[BigSky]

I agree I didn't choose the best words using long time.
However, when it comes to diabetes the complications become more revelant over time for some diabetics, few may have them sooner.. As for having to eat snacks at night with the need to get up occassionally, that's not opinion,

My statement never said anything about getting up occasionally.  (#70)   You are trying to change the discussion of what I said to that.

As for your debate tatics, they need some improvement. You state something and then don't want to supply information to a means of your opinion, what good is posting something then. Then you just go on attacking other members.

Evidently you do not comprehend the fact I NEVER have explain myself to you.

You complain about attacking when in fact you attacked me first.  Boy thats a good one.

Get off your high horse and give members a better understanding of your view rather than  just coming back with an attack because no one fits your view. A debate is to give your opinion and sway others to your side with information you provide. Which is lacking when it comes to diabetes, but go ahead, say "I don't have to explain myself" That I know is your given answer, the cure all of all answers.

And my logic is fine about diabetes and the need to have a snack of something to eat while on dialysis. Apparently from the lack of input you provide, you have given the impression you do not know what you are talking about.

Sorry but by your own view you havent dealt with dialysis long enough to talk about what one needs on dialysis.  But if you really want to get into it about people not knowing what they are talking about.

The medical study more than gives the impression you do not know what you are talking about.



BTW this isnt a debate that changes minds despite you thinking so.

The us against them mentality is strong and I have seen it in a number of other threads and it doesnt change.  Some have that view because they are angry.  They are angry they have to restrict their diet, they are angry they have to take the medications, they are angry they have to devote several hours a week to dialysis an so forth.

People will think they are wronged if a unit tells them they cannot eat or drink and nothing is going to change their mind on that view and the funny thing is you actually think anything said might change that view?  Ya right.

By what you say here bigsky you must work for one of the units that are banning food and drink.  We are ALL entitled to our opinion and should not be attacking each other ( and yes I did look at the peaceful picture before I posted)  This issue does not really concern me anymore because hubby does home hemo and he can eat or drink whatever he wants when he is hooked to the machine!!  I think that dialysis units should have a little bit of compassion towards there patients.  Those patients have a chronic disease that without the treatment they would not be around here.  How would you feel if you were the one siting there in a dialysis chair hungry and thirsty and not allowed to have anything. Not a good feeling.

I am sitting there on the machine.

However it probably doesnt seem like that because I do not let it limit me and do not use it as an excuse.

Dialysis does clean the body of toxins and also removes stuff like protein. When the protein is removed, and this happens a lot with nocturnal the body responses by craving for food to get back the protein it is missing.  Because of this the patient is usually very hungry!!

Some protein is lost during dialysis.  So you are really saying that people could really just drink some boost to replace protein then while on dialysis?

However can you produce a study to back up the second part of your statement?  

I would want sound medical reasons that would apply to everybody not just a few people!!  Why ban everyone from eating and drinking if some people are abusing it. Just deal with those people.

Medical studies do support this position.  

It applies to all people, if people pass out while eating or if they throw up after passing out they can aspirate.  Will all people pass out?  No, but things are done for everyone.  Just as not everyone drops their bp but because of medical studies units lower temps on the machines and keep temps lower in the units to help combat low bp.  

Also of interest would be those that could eat and drink in that should they be eating and drinking in front of other dialysis patients?  Especially in light of the fact that on a prior discussion on this board people have said that people shouldnt be drinking in front of dialysis patients.

 There are restrictions everywhere you look and to further restrict to say that you have to go sometimes for 5 or 6 hours without food or drink ( longer if doing nocturnal ) is just silly without sound medical reasons.  I have done lots of research and no where have I read that dialysis patients should not eat or drink during treatment.  

I am not attacking anyone just stating my opinion and some facts!!!

There is a medical paper posted on this forum concerning not eating and drinking and there have been a number of studies done on the subject and are posted on the web.

[kitkatz]

Twirl, see what you started, girlfriend!     Who knew there were such prolific opinions of eating at dialysis! 

[twirl]

and I cheated and ate a cheese string
next time ----- I am out on my butt
I was sooo hungry..... and other patients were cheating but I told on no one
I ain't a squealer

[paddbear0000]

Anyone else bored with this conversation?   

[RichardMEL]

Hate to say this and potentially add to the flames (and I loved the calming picture padd! ) but from my reading of this thread BigSky it's you who have been angry, agressive and attacking IMHO. Yes, some have bitten back because they feel they need to defend their position. For me I would never write about a diabetic's life or requirements because knock on wood I am not one (and fingers crossed will stay that way!!) but I can certainly understand that ANYONE who makes an argument without backing an opinion up with either fact or at least an argument to support their opinion should be questioned as part of a meaningful debate.

I am interested in the different points of view. I can certainly see the pros and cons on both sides of eating or not eating. I thought about the situation here in oz as I understand it and it seems most units, both public and private, have food of one sort or another available. Indeed the chief nurse at my unit was trying to convince a patient it would be in his best interests to move to a private unit closer to his home and one of her arguments from working there was "the food's better! They have fresh muffins and fruit salad!"  

I always comply with the rules the unit makes, and I do understand and not apprieciate when those come along try to flaunt them (like the guy who KEEPS coming early and then getting upset when there's not a machine instantly ready for him.. WTF?).. so if a unit went no food I'd at least understand why from these threads and that's a good thing. I know I could go 5 hours without food, though it would be uncomfortable.. but some can't and one would hope that in situations that require something - and I am talking on medical grounds now - like a diabetic with low BSL or something - then they should be allowed in that case. I guess that would then bring up the argument that some people might get upset if they see one person with food and they can't have anything and they don't understand why and would then complain *sigh*

btw BigSky you commented about being on the machine and not letting it limit you. Well most people on IHD are like that! Look at Zach and everyone that goes to the events etc. I do my best to not let it limit me either and live as normal a life as possible.. I'm not sure how that is relevant to this issue.

peace!

[del]

This is my last comment because I am sooooo bored with this!! Whatever we say bigsky has his own answer for it.  The studies that have been done are very few and have been done on a small group of people where nobody knows the age of the patients or their other medical conditions.  Dialysis has not limited my husband in any way or has it limited many people on this site.!!!  He is much more able to enjoy life since dialysis especially hemo!!  Hubby does home hemo and if he ever has to go back to in center he will eat the same as he always did!!!  He was in center for 6 years and never ever saw anybody have any problems with eating or drinking anything!! 

[BigSky]

Hate to say this and potentially add to the flames (and I loved the calming picture padd! ) but from my reading of this thread BigSky it's you who have been angry, agressive and attacking IMHO. Yes, some have bitten back because they feel they need to defend their position. For me I would never write about a diabetic's life or requirements because knock on wood I am not one (and fingers crossed will stay that way!!) but I can certainly understand that ANYONE who makes an argument without backing an opinion up with either fact or at least an argument to support their opinion should be questioned as part of a meaningful debate.

 

[Chris]

 

I would agree that a full, hot meal or a delivered pizza is a little out of the question, but a snack or light meal is not.  You say that going 6 hours without food is not uncomfortable.  Might be fine for you, but diabetics that have made it this far, the 20 years or so that it takes to reach dialysis.  Have been taking smaller meals at shorter intervals to keep their blood sugar more level and 6 hours is a long time.  I am sure that any unit would not want the "legal liability" of a diabetic crashing on them.

Evidently you must not control it very well then since you must get up several times a night since you cannot go 6 hours without.

Hence you have  no idea what your talking about when it comes to diabetes. 

[Actually I am quite aware.

Which I then asked for an explanation and you go off on a tirade.  Along with attacking other members of the group.

And I never said I knew a lot about dialysis. I had it, but not as long as other people on here. If I don't know something in a post, I ask.

So go back to thinking your so perfect and have no flaws, because your not worth  any time to watch you attack other membersi.

I have respect for others on here, but none for you.

[kitkatz]

So go back to thinking your so perfect and have no flaws, because your not worth my or any other members you attack time with your input since you think your crap don't stink.

Chris, as a Moderator I am calling you on a personal attack here.  You were fine up to this statement.  I think you may want to modify your statement to not be offensive to the readers of IHD.com  Thank you.


kitkatz,Moderator

[BigSky]

Which I then asked for an explanation and you go off on a tirade.  Along with attacking other members of the group.

And I never said I knew a lot about dialysis. I had it, but not as long as other people on here. If I don't know something in a post, I ask.

So go back to thinking your so perfect and have no flaws, because your not worth my or any other members you attack time with your input since you think your crap don't stink.

I have respect for others on here, but none for you.

You attacked me first as well as a host of others before I did anything that was an attack, all because they didnt like my position supporting the policy or my opinion.

You even continue with your little personal attacks. 

Second

No one said anything about you claiming to know alot about dialysis or saying you didnt.

This is just another attempt on your part to change what was actually said and discussed.

YOU were the one that came up with the faulty logic and attacked me with it.  You are pissed your own logic was used against you.  Sorry but if you are going to use such logic I will use it back at you to show just how flawed it is and drive that point home.

I know I am not perfect.  But none the less its funny  that you try to claim I think that.  


Respect?  Oh please  I do not need your respect or would I want it.

[Rerun]

This is my last comment because I am sooooo bored with this!! Whatever we say bigsky has his own answer for it.  The studies that have been done are very few and have been done on a small group of people where nobody knows the age of the patients or their other medical conditions.  Dialysis has not limited my husband in any way or has it limited many people on this site.!!!  He is much more able to enjoy life since dialysis especially hemo!!  Hubby does home hemo and if he ever has to go back to in center he will eat the same as he always did!!!  He was in center for 6 years and never ever saw anybody have any problems with eating or drinking anything!! 

That is the whole point to this conversation.  IF your hubby has to go back in-center and they have banned food and drink how will you cope?
We need to stop this freight train now.  Next they will ban blankets and cell phones and ipods and DVD players.  They will give us all lobotomies and collect our Medicare payment.

[okarol]

Thread locked - okarol/admin