no more free coffee

[Chris]

I know why, you were up real early posting here then you were at work dealing with an idiot husband.

[BigSky]

This is true.  But, 20 years ago they "served" us lunch on trays during dialysis.  The reason people choke now is because they are sneaking it.  They don't want to deal with the mess if someone pukes or spills their drink.  I think it is medical abuse.  I wish someone would take them to court over it.  There is NO medical reason you can't have a snack on dialysis.

Sorry gonna disagree with you on this one......

If someone eats while in dialysis and then pukes it up, I say pull their ass off the machine and make them clean it up themselves. Same goes if they spill a drink while on the machine.

[Chris]

I can agree with you on that, they should clean up their own mess for the most part.

[G-Ma]

When I went in center at RAI the beginning of Nov, people were eating muffins etc and the week before Christmas a letter was handed to each person saying NO eating or drinking or also unhook and home.  Today I didn't eat at all before I went to D and then started to passout after D due to hunger and the charge nurse said bring a snack next time....make up your minds what you want the prisoners to do.

[Chris]

Think the charge nurse is more in tune with patients than the bean counters who sent the rule out.

[jessup]

This is true.  But, 20 years ago they "served" us lunch on trays during dialysis.  The reason people choke now is because they are sneaking it.  They don't want to deal with the mess if someone pukes or spills their drink.  I think it is medical abuse.  I wish someone would take them to court over it.  There is NO medical reason you can't have a snack on dialysis.

Sorry gonna disagree with you on this one......

If someone eats while in dialysis and then pukes it up, I say pull their ass off the machine and make them clean it up themselves. Same goes if they spill a drink while on the machine.

OMG
Doesn't sound very caring.
6 hours without food or water - are you for real
I thought Dialysis was a medical procedure where you tried to make the patient as comfortable as possible.

Thank goodness here in the top end we don't have anything like this attitude or protocol
Dad's renal unit cooks food for the patients - three different menus for the patient to choose
The nurses have insisted on numerous occassions that Dad had to eat and drink whilst on dx machine

I would be furious if I had to clean up my vomit or mess whilst I am trying to live with no bloody kidneys
I would be  the roof if this happened to my father
WTF

[Chris]

Wow jessup, that would be a nice place to have dialysis. Probably to costly to do here due to all the regulations and health codes.

I hope they have coffee there though. That woul be the dialysis center I would want to go to if i went on a trip and needed dialysis (again).

[Ang]

Sorry gonna disagree with you on this one......

If someone eats while in dialysis and then pukes it up, I say pull their ass off the machine and make them clean it up themselves. Same goes if they spill a drink while on the machine.

just  curious,  when  your  elderly  and  doing  dialysis,  maybe  they  should  pull  your  ass  off  the  machine put  you  on  all  fours  and  clean  the  mess  up

  dialysis  staff  get  paid  for  the  good  and  the  bad  of  the  job,

 




EDITED: Quote Error corrected - Bajanne, Moderator

[Chris]

Rather clean up vomit than what come out the other end that happened at my center a few times and they weren't eating.
If you spil some coffee or some food, clean it up afterwards, but if it is a large spill, then let someone know to avoid a saftey hazard

[monrein]

Sorry gonna disagree with you on this one......

If someone eats while in dialysis and then pukes it up, I say pull their ass off the machine and make them clean it up themselves. Same goes if they spill a drink while on the machine.

I don't understand this view.  I'm also happy that no nurses I know subscribe to it.  There are many  causes for a person vomiting on D, including medications,  and the idea that a "patient" should clean up is absurd.  If it becomes clear that the cause of the vomiting is eating on the machine then it is a medical issue and must be dealt with but not by having the patient clean up after being sick.  I can't imagine many patients who would continue to routinely vomit on themselves if it could be avoided by not eating.  In the case of such a person I would suspect mental health issues and eating on the machine would be the least of the clinic's concerns. I don't expect to mop the floor either if I spill some blood on it.  Having said that, I also think that patients should reasonably be expected, under normal circumstances,  to tidy up their stations after a run, not leaving garbage or juice or crumbs on chairs or whatever because that is only polite, common courtesy and the consideration of others is always a good thing.   

Common sense seems so uncommon, it's frankly a bit frightening.





EDITED: Quote Error corrected - Bajanne, Moderator

[Chris]

I'm talking common courtesy about the messes one should clean up, just to be clear on that. Not like Big Sky's view.

[okarol]

Not all centers are created equal.
Poor Jenna, right after she returned to incenter from her bladder augmentation she had an incident. She had been given stool softeners and other stuff to unblock her after being on pain meds for 10 days, but nothing seemed to work. Suddenly, halfway during dialysis, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, let loose! She was mortified! The head nurse called and asked me to bring her some clothes. They threw a screen up around her, cleaned her up pretty well, wrapped her in a sheet and escorted her to the restroom, where I finished helping her clean up. By the time she came out they had her chair scrubbed and were ready to hook her back up. They handled the situation so efficiently and treated her with such compassion and respect, I will never forget that.
 

[coorsbob]

Perhaps we could put together a petition/letter and any of us here who'd like to could print it off, sign it and send it to the company also.  I'd be happy to add my voice to a protest about this ridiculous rule. 

Well said! Someone can post it and anyone who ereads it on here can copy it to print and sen it in. Just think how many that could be just from the IHD family.

[coorsbob]

as soon as you get friendly with someone in a chair by you and you start talking---- they separate you
I was told dialysis is not a place to socialize and meet friends

DAVITA SUCKS

This is what goes on at Davita ? Boy I'm sure glad I got out of there after about a month there and got onto PD. Besides being very depressing I just could not take it any longer.

[RichardMEL]

Good grief! This is insane... what a stupid policy of SOMEONE'S to enforce.

We don't get cooked meals like jessup's dad's unit, but we do get sandwiches and tea/coffee/ice/water/cordial(like kool-aid for the US readers) and they are great. Heck sometimes I might shout them a coffee from the cafe downstairs and they'll get any patients one who wants one (better than the instant muck). I also have a jar of sweets I keep on my table and half the staff like to eat some during the session (I have no problem with this.. that's what they are for.. oh and for raising my BP near the end of a session of I need it ).

Stupid anti-patient policies... that's ridiculous and I would be going to the company - at a more senior level than the local boobs who came up with this insulting policy and try to get something changed.

 

[twirl]

thanks all
I always pick up whatever I need to before I leave dialysis
the only time I puked on the floor was when I asked for something to throw up in and 20 minutes later the tech gave me a bucket--- a little too late
almost happened once when I had diarrhea   ----   I am not asking to get off to go smoke a joint in the bathroom or anything  ----- I had to go
I am worried about the last hour when I get so hungry and so sick at my tummy  --- I can see me running out of dialysis eating the first thing that comes along-------
I am not going to feel like driving home when I get so nauseated--
and sometimes I do not leave at 10:30  it came be 11 am depends on which tech takes me off
I run 6am to 10 am and have left as late as 11:30    you know, it depends and several patients get sick there and go off to the er and they should come before me but if I am starving I will not be happy
we are allowed to eat in the lobby
so I guess I will request to get off long enough to eat 1/2 a sandwhich and a few grapes
I thought about calling my nep doc and asking for a note stating I need a snack
but then he owns the place
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I get so vomitty when I get that hungry   
sorry    I wish I had some wine with this cheese    or whatever the expression is

[mikey07840]

Twirl, I am sorry you have to deal with this nonsense.

Just as an FYI, In the state of New Jersey, no food is allowed in the treatment area of any dialysis center. (This is a Department of Health Rule.) When I was in the hospital getting dialysis, this caused some scheduling fun as I had to eat before or after treatments. Both the hospital and outpatient dialysis center I used provided free coffee, milk, juice, ice water or soda on demand.

[RichardMEL]

as soon as you get friendly with someone in a chair by you and you start talking---- they separate you
I was told dialysis is not a place to socialize and meet friends

DAVITA SUCKS

This is what goes on at Davita ? Boy I'm sure glad I got out of there after about a month there and got onto PD. Besides being very depressing I just could not take it any longer.

Oh I just had to comment on this one too.

What on earth???

I bet if you talk to any social worker or neph they will comment how one thing that dialysis and ESRD does is it tends to isolate people either dealing with their illness or because they have to do dialysis etc and that one important positive factor of doing dialysis in center is the social aspect because you do get out and see others and COMMUNICATE. I remember at an infor session I went to they talked about this and said it was very important.

Heck in my unit the nurses often make a point of stopping by and chatting to us (those of us who are able/interested) and specially for those of us that are regular long term patients who the staff get to know (and we get to know them) it's just natural to discuss families or interests or whatever.

I wonder how Davita - or those with this particular dumb policy - would deal with the old Greek men in my unit who yell at eachother in greek for their entire sessions... and it doesn't matter where in the unit they are! 

No we don't go to make friends but often it turns out that some of the staff and other patients who we may see more than some of our own families can wind up being more friends. I know I had at least one lovely nurse say to me in the past that when I get a transplant and hopefully leave the unit that I'd visit with them still and stay in touch - at the pub at least!!!

I suppose for some it is a numbers game.. get 'em in, hook 'em up, shut them up, get them out... least fuss or annoyance. It is a pity medicine is treated that way by some. I mean I think sometimes they forget that dialysis keeps us alive while we deal with a terminal disease! We're not there for kicks!

[nursewratchet]

as soon as you get friendly with someone in a chair by you and you start talking---- they separate you
I was told dialysis is not a place to socialize and meet friends

DAVITA SUCKS

This is what goes on at Davita ? Boy I'm sure glad I got out of there after about a month there and got onto PD. Besides being very depressing I just could not take it any longer.

  My center is a Davita center.  It is NOTHING like this.  Please don't put Davita's name on a center who, it sounds like may have a control freak for an FA.

[willieandwinnie]

One of the hardest aspects of dialysis is the significant loss control over our own lives.  Loss of the spontaneity to travel, loss of the freedom to eat the foods we choose, loss (for many) of the ability to do work of our choice and so on.  To remove the control over when we eat our limited diet choices feels cruel and quite unnecessary to me.  There are cases in which eating during dialysis is contraindicated for medical reasons but that is not the case for all patients and to have a one-rule-fits-all approach, is to totally ignore the necessity for individualized care.  I find that completely unacceptable and as a person who insists on maintaining control over every aspect of my care that I possibly can, I would refuse to participate in this infantilizing, levelling approach.  I completely agree with Rerun that this idiotic "rule" has less to do with good medicine than it does with convenience for staff.  People in hospitals are fed even though they sometimes make an awful mess because they are ill.  We continue to feed babies even though the little creatures insist on spitting up and creating a ton of laundry. 
When I mention to the nurses at my clinic, some of the things that I hear about on this forum, they are appalled and find it cruel and inhumane.   It is rubbish and we ought not to get used to it.  We have enough things that we must adjust to with this illness without having to accept the unnecessary or the dogmatic.  If there are medical reasons that make it not a good idea for me to eat on D that is when I will get used to it and not a moment before.  I will also say that I think it is each patient's responsibility NOT to choose foods to eat on the machine that would be disturbing or offensive (strong odors for example) to fellow-patients but that is an entirely different matter.  I would also say that if I couldn't eat in my unit I'd be really upset if the staff was eating in there and I'd write letters about it until my fingers fell off.  Get used to it indeed!!!!

Great post Gail.  

[okarol]

as soon as you get friendly with someone in a chair by you and you start talking---- they separate you
I was told dialysis is not a place to socialize and meet friends

DAVITA SUCKS

This is what goes on at Davita ? Boy I'm sure glad I got out of there after about a month there and got onto PD. Besides being very depressing I just could not take it any longer.

  My center is a Davita center.  It is NOTHING like this.  Please don't put Davita's name on a center who, it sounds like may have a control freak for an FA.

Davita would have a better reputation if all the centers were run like yours NurseW, but sadly that is not the case. I would like to see more uniformity in the operations of Davita clinics, so the patient could expect quality of care rather being at the mercy of a franchise that does not give optimal care and comfort to dialysis patients.

[kitkatz]

Now remember not all Davita centers are the same.  I was worried when I went over to Davita to do nocturnal. However I have been treated with respect by the staff.  They tease me, but it is within limits.  I asled them before I started about eating food.  They said "it is dinner time for most folks. You can bring what you need to eat."  I usually bring a cut up apple, pretzels, string cheese, and a cup of ice.

[BigSky]

OMG
Doesn't sound very caring.
6 hours without food or water - are you for real
I thought Dialysis was a medical procedure where you tried to make the patient as comfortable as possible.

Thank goodness here in the top end we don't have anything like this attitude or protocol
Dad's renal unit cooks food for the patients - three different menus for the patient to choose
The nurses have insisted on numerous occassions that Dad had to eat and drink whilst on dx machine

I would be furious if I had to clean up my vomit or mess whilst I am trying to live with no bloody kidneys
I would be  the roof if this happened to my father
WTF

Please, 6 hours without food or water is nothing.  Some call that the time from breakfast to lunch, the time from lunch to dinner and only a fraction of the time from dinner until breakfast the next morning.

People are there for medical treatment, its not a freaking drive through or a restaurant.

The nurses are their to provide that treatment and people are their to receive that treatment.  People are not there  to have their treatment delayed because the nurses to save some twit because that person decided they needed to eat and now are choking or they have aspirated when throwing up or from passing out.

Not to mention is inconsiderate of those that are there for that professional medical treatment and not their to shovel food down their gullet or smell something rank the person next to them is eating nor smell them throwing up chinese food.

just  curious,  when  your  elderly  and  doing  dialysis,  maybe  they  should  pull  your  ass  off  the  machine put  you  on  all  fours  and  clean  the  mess  up

  dialysios  staff  get  paid  for  the  good  and  the  bad  of  the  job,

Better yet if I decided I needed to shovel food down my gullet during those short 6 hours since the last meal and I threw it back up I would personally take some responsibility and tell them to pull my ass off the machine so I could clean it up.

Getting sick is one thing, but doing something knowing you may get sick and deciding to shovel food down your gullet anyway and getting sick is quite another.

 

I don't understand this view.  I'm also happy that no nurses I know subscribe to it.  There are many  causes for a person vomiting on D, including medications,  and the idea that a "patient" should clean up is absurd. 
Common sense seems so uncommon, it's frankly a bit frightening.

A person getting sick is one thing, but in a situation where one may get sick they decide to compound it by feeling that need to eat first is quite another and I and shocked you are not able to differentiate between them.

If it becomes clear that the cause of the vomiting is eating on the machine then it is a medical issue and must be dealt with but not by having the patient clean up after being sick.  I can't imagine many patients who would continue to routinely vomit on themselves if it could be avoided by not eating.  In the case of such a person I would suspect mental health issues and eating on the machine would be the least of the clinic's concerns.

Yea right. 

So would those mental health issues also include that despite knowing all the risks and or benefits they still eat too much NA, K, PO₄, not get enough protein and  having lab values out of whack month in and month out because of it.  Or maybe those that do not follow the diet except for the days or week before lab draw in order to get good labs? 

People do what they want to do despite what is best for them in any given situation and they will any excuse they can to justify their actions.

[Chris]

And I take it you must be the perfect little patient everyone loves?

I could respect your opinion, but no matter what another member say's, you can't respect their opinion and go on the offensive and I loose some  respect. There are situations you have no clue to where people may need food. No one is normal on dialysis and everyone reacts differently. Diabetics for one don't all react the same as you so think at your unit and I doubt your there through all the shifts watching each and everyone of them taking notes to see how their blod sugars are, how they feel, ect. If a nurse or tech has to give glucose, then they are only putting a band aid on the situation. Glucose is for emergency situations and makes diabetes a little bit harder to control afterwards when you do get some food. Food on the other hand absorbs slowly and last longer in the body compared to glucose/D50 in saline.

Twirl, I would still talk to your doctor if he is the owner, he may not be aware of what is going on firsthand.A nephrologist should be familiar with what happens to patients with diabetes who don't eat and have low blood sugar.. Or at least have him explain why the decision was brought down in a non confrontational way. Don't be passive because he is your doc and the owner.

[kidney4traci]

Talk the other pts into EVERYONE eating at the same time.  They can't run a business if they have to send everyone home!!  And what business is it of theirs if you talk to another pt or not??  Sorry, maybe you could change clinics.  They seem to be everywhere now, andnot all Davitas are run this way.  In Houston, I have been to three of them, and never treated that way.  Raise Cain Girl!!