psychotherapy - you in? if not, should you be?

[paris]

Momo, excellent post.   As I said earlier, I am a glass half full so, I always assume that anyone I am talking to may have a much harder life than I do.   For instance, my husband and I had to fill out health forms and it asked how you felt your health was.  My husband checked "poor" and I checked "good".  He has diabetes, very well controlled. Same level of meds for the past 5 years.    But I think my health is good even with a transplant, fibro, arthritis and degenerative bone disease and a few minor things!     

Going back to a therapist - I do believe in therapists, but I think your outlook on life greatly effects what your results will be with a therapist.   If you already think your lot in life is the worst, you may never see  the good in it.    I also think it is normal to go through periods of depression.   And I feel we can do some good for each other on this site, even if we aren't face to face.  We can't diagnose, but we can give support and lend an ear.   

Interesting responses.        WishIKnew ---- we need a "wish maker" for adults with our type of diseases!  Surely, Merry Maids, or one of the big cleaning company could randomly give cleaning service in their area pro bono.  Starting with you!   If we didn't have to do the heavy cleaning, it would help us so much.    Pick me!!!!     

[MooseMom]

Momo, the hygenist wasn't confiding in me.  At least, not at first.  She was just rambling and telling me incredibly personal things about her family before I had even sat down, and she had never met me before.  She was no good at self-editing.

I don't know what it is about that place, but the last hygenist I had did exactly the same thing.  I'd never met her, but she immediately launched into a verbal novel about her kids, complaining about them while at the same time telling me how great they are.  Funnily enough, the conversation turned to a point where I found myself telling her exactly what you've told me, that we never know what battles someone else is fighting (she had been complaining about someone who had been rude to her).  She stopped, sat back, and said, "That's a really good point.  I need to remember that.  Thank you."  I really hope I had given her something that might make her days a bit easier.

As for this hygenist, well, on this particular occasion, I was feeling really unwell, and I had told her so, but she just kept talking.  Maybe she was nervous or thought I was nervous and was trying to put me at ease.  To be honest, I am uncomfortable with hearing about other people's children because they inevitably ask me about mine, and I don't lie really well, so I answer them honestly, that he is autistic and is living abroad and that yes, it DOES hurt a lot.  So after hearing about all of the wonderful accomplishments of their kids, I am reminded that for my son, life is a struggle and he is struggling without me there, and my biggest nightmare is for me to be stuck on dialysis and something happens to him and I can't get to him in time because I'm stuck to a machine.

But do not be concerned.  I listened to her carefully and even tried to offer something, even though her fingers were stuck in my mouth.  I told her that while texting and emails are wonderful tools, the result is that sometimes the people in our lives forget to figure things out on their own.  Instead, they text mom with every little concern and worry.  I smiled and commiserated and just went off on the kidney thing because she had mentioned that her daughter had depression so bad that she had been talking about suicide since she was 9 years old.  I told her that it was just so unfair that kids that young found life so difficult, and that's when I shared the fact that I knew some young people who had had kidney disease all their lives and would have it forever, so I understood how these chronic conditions are particularly hard on the young.  Remember, I had never met this woman, yet she tells me this information about her daughter.  I confess to being rather taken aback.  That was very personal information.

I am EXTREMELY well aware that everyone has their battles to fight.  I am the one who tells my husband, when someone cuts him off in traffic, that maybe that person is racing to pick up his wife at dialysis...you never know.  I happen to have an ego the size of a baby gnat, and I practically NEVER take things "personally".  As for this hygenist, she knows exactly what is causing her stress and she knows exactly how to combat it, and I told her so, but I also told her that when you are a mom, the desire to fix everything for our kids can be a sorce of stress in and of itself, and for her own sanity, she might want to think about dialing it back.  She agreed.

So, I listened, I sympathized and I offered suggestions just so that she would know that I was listening.  But then she started complaining about insurance and other related topics, and that's when I told her about how dialysis is funded and how even if you have insurance, they kick you off onto Medicare after 30 months because you no longer are profitable. (She had finished the cleaning, and we were waiting for the doctor to come in.  He was busy with a patient, so we had all of this empty time in which to talk.)  I told her how uncomfortable this made me as I don't want the American taxpayer to have to pay for my treatments...I have insurance for that, but I won't be allowed to use it.  But do you think she was listening?  No.  She had told her story and was not interested in mine.  I gave her a listening ear and a metaphorical cup of tea, but she did not offer the same to me.  I knew that she was fighting her battle with stress, but she was not interested in my war.

[Trikkechickk]

No!  When i'm done with "D" - I am done for the day.  I don't even think about it when I have gotten off my "leash".

[purgatory]

WishIKnew, thank you so much for your reply on the Liberty cycler.  I will do manuals before I  use that contraption, ever.  I started at a new dialysis center yesterday (oh, the stress) but they seem much nicer and more interested in treating me as a person, so I have some hope they will help me sort our my cycler issue.

MooseMom - your posts are wonderful.  They express so much of my own feelings.  My husband is always my go-to person when I feel down.  Without his broad shoulders and endless patience, I would be lost.

I came across a really good saying the other day: "Only he who carries the load knows its true weight."  It helps me a lot to know that many of you on IHD express the same feelings about ESRD and D that I have (rage, grief, depression, hopelessness, etc.) and that these feelings are a normal response to our situation.

Thank you all

[MomoMcSleepy]

Ugh, sounds like she was a psychic vampire.  I read  about them in the weekly world news.   

You did your best, girlie, you did your best.  I'm glad you spoke up and told her trousers't feeling well, and it is too bad that her edit button and sensitivity chip were malfunctioning.  Maybe she had ADHD, like me!  We can seem super compassionate, then aloof goofs the next moment.  We also tensor babble.


I've noticed those people who vomit up tons of information often don't reciprocate when it's your turn to share  . I try not to do the same.  Sorry if I misread the situation, sounds rough.  Hopefully things are going better for her, and you!
 

[MooseMom]

Oh, I survived.  It was no big deal, but it amused me somewhat.  She must have been really stressed out for her to spill such personal information, and in thinking more about it, maybe she felt safe venting to me, someone she'll probably never see again.  That's just fine.

[Annig83]

As a mental health professional (well I used to be a case manager for the mentally ill), I found it sooo difficult to go to therapy... cause I know exactly what they are going to ask, and what they want to hear... I agree with all of the posts on here too... why go to someone who doesn't know what you're going through...in terms of medical issues? 
I saw a therapist about 6 months ago...she was VERY VERY NICE.. but when I told her about my ESRD, and D she looked at me as though she was the one who needed therapy!  I get bored with therapy too... It's the same no matter who you go to;
"Tell me...how does that impact your daily routines?"  "Tell me... how does your family help you?" "Tell me...blah blah blah" I don't need someone to tell me I'm depressed... I know it and that's why I'm so glad I found this site.  I think at times, some of us forget there are others out here that are going through the same problems... what helps me is knowing that.

[Rain]

I tried therapy once.  I remember walking out of there saying  i want that hour back, since it was  a waste of time.  I found the therapist fake. 

Right now when i get depressed i think of positive things in my life, things i'm proud that i have accomplished.  I also go and work out to get the happy hormones traveling in my body. 

 i find it works well and most days I'm okay with having ESRD and being at dialysis at a young age.   Ialso make plans to look forward too, seeing friends or going on a trip.

[WishIKnew]

I find that my hour a week with the therapist is very helpful.  But, I also see very clearly that my issues that lead to my great depression were far more than ESRD.  I've lost so much in the past several years:  my hearing, my career and identity, my confidence in social situations, my kidney function, my independence, my energy, my son's childhood, my financial security (filed bankruptcy), my home (foreclosure), my breasts (cancer), my self-esteem, my trust that I will have a future at all....  So, I believe that before I can take my wonderful new kidney and seek a future, I need to grieve the losses and build up the person who will emerge from the flames.  She is helping me to do that.  Mainly she listens, does not judge, and gives me a place to feel however I feel without dumping it all of my husband or friends.  It's not their job to catch all the shit I throw!  LOL  So, for me, it seems to be helping so far.

I'm also working out almost every day at the gym which is very empowering.  And I'm taking an advance Sign Language class, which I LOVE and I believe will be key in finding my future.  These things in tandem seem to be pulling me up, one day at a time.

Everyone finds their own ways of coping.   I support whatever works! 

 

[natnnnat]

You really are amazing WishIKnew.   

[MomoMcSleepy]

Oh, WishIKnew, that's a tough string of troubles, and I'm glad that you have found someone helpful. You're totally right to work at getting into a better headspace/emotional place ahead of getting a transplant.   

Rain, there have been times when I've thought that a psychologist or social worker was fake, and have wanted my hour back, but there have been other times when I really had a good person and needed that help, and looked forward to the sessions, to unpacking the problems I was having and learning how to cope well.  A lot of them seem fake, though.

I  think many of us have simply had poor experiences, or were somehow forced to go when we weren't ready, or guilted  into going, perhaps, and therefore couldn't see the benefit.  If you haven't found the right person, keep trying.  I think that except in extreme cases where there isn't a choice, it is best when the patient chooses to go, and feels able to choose their provider and psychotherapeutic method.  There are differnet methods, just like with anything else, we are not all one size fits all.  It is really hard to dump a physician, though, not saying it's easy to find a new one, especially in the same health system, ugh.  Like dating one of your ex's friends....but sometimes you just don't have a good fit with a doctor and have to switch.  It doesn't mean that the whole profession of psychology is useless, just that you weren't with the right person, or the proper method for your needs.

Just my

[unvaso]

It may be a bit too late to jump into this conversation but I could not resist belatedly sticking my nose in.  (must be the social worker in me!) I've often pondered the whole sw/patient dynamic during the years I've been in this job- how can I best serve the patients, and not just be (or be seen as) a paper pusher.  On the one hand, the majority of the patients, when they first begin, are too shellshocked (and often too uremic) to benefit from more than the most basic help- making sure they have nothing to worry about as far as getting here, social support, insurance.  After the initial adjustment period it often seems patients have a hard time viewing me as more than the person who takes care of pesky insurance bills, or who helps them apply for benefits, or who rolls out the Bingo cart once a month (honestly some patients only appreciate my bingo calling skills!).  Overall, everyone is different in what they need and expect from me.  I've come to decide that, for the majority of my patients, working to ensure that they can experience a bit of normalcy in their lives seems to be most therapeutic.  All the social workers in your centers, believe it or not, are qualified to provide some sort of therapy to you (whether "psychotherapy" specifically is up to whatever branch of therapy they choose to practice- we are all qualified to do something, but honestly the push these days (or at least when I was in grad school, which admittedly was a while ago) is for more results oriented therapy.  That's the kind that insurance pays for and honestly, although psychotherapy can be cathartic, clinical studies tend to side with quicker solution-focused/behavior-modifying modes of therapy.) Even if you don't have a close relationship with your social worker, please ask about counseling.  Even if you don't want counseling from your social worker, he or she will be able to make a referral somewhere for you.  I am glad to provide counseling for my patients, although I do not take it personally when my patients ask for counseling from someone other than me. I personally would find it a little unsettling to see my therapist three days a week! ("Hmmm..sure wish I hadn't have shared those homicidal thoughts!!" Just kidding...)  The dialysis clinic just is not conducive to a good therapy session.  I share an office with the dietician, our office is right off the lobby- so much for privacy.  In some ways I wish CMS mandated that every clinic had a social work ASSISTANT to deal with the paperwork and bingo, and an MSW that came several times a month for scheduled, private therapy sessions.  But then again, I kinda like being helpful with the little things, because I think most patients here appreciate that more than the credentials behind my name.
Anyway, long story short.  Take advantage of your social worker. Free therapy.   Also consider approaching your social worker about starting group therapy at your clinic.  My experience with groups has not been great, usually only a couple of people show up and only talk about diet-related stuff.  However, groups that are patient-run and patient-driven are proven to be very powerful. 

[Lillupie]

Ive seen a therapist because I have a really bad temper....
 And it is true that it is another appointment. I try to go once a week and would like to so that is reason why i do not work.

Therapy does not always work for me. I saw a therapist recently. And he was missing a hand, born without a hand. And basically told me if God wont give me a hand why would he give me a kidney? If God can move mountains why hasnt he given me a kidney?

That made me feel worse then I already do.

Lisa

[malaka]

Because I want a week's vacation, I found out that I have a social worker at my center.  I've seen her flitting about, but had never talked to her.  While she wears the white plastic coat, she also wears high heels, which seemed odd to me until I learned she's a social worker, not a health care provider.

Anyway, they are useful for things like vacation scheduling, answering questions about insurance, and the like.  Seeing her for counseling, however, makes little sense.  She's been around long enough to know that until and unless we patients get transplants, we're not going to get better.  What, really, can she say?  "You'll get used to it"?  "Most patients adapt over time"?  If she had any other viewpoint, I'd think she was nuttier than I am. 

Never been to a psychiatrist or psychologist, so I have no valuable opinion on whether they might help.  However, psychiatrists can prescribe drugs.  Just what I need, another pill to take!