Private messages

[MooseMom]

Hello!  An IHD member tells me that she has been trying to send me a PM but is unable to because apparently my inbox is full.  I know the obvious answer is for me to clear some space, but I've been on this site since 2007 and really hate to delete any messages either sent to me or messages I have sent in reply.  I have messages from people who have passed away or who have disappeared for whatever reason, and I'd ideally like to keep them all.

I did bite the bullet two days ago and deleted some.  It was painful.  My inbox shows that it is now "678%" full, which makes no sense, but at least that's reduced from the previous "787% full".  I see nothing that would indicate my box is so full that I can no longer receive PMs.

Could someone investigate this for me?  I'd appreciate it.  If you have any questions, let me know, maybe by PM?  Thank you!

[kitkatz]

There has to be a limit to member boxes, otherwise the bandwidth would be full of just messages and the site would be huge.  You will have to bite the bullet and erase some of them.  You could cut and paste PMs into Word that way you would have them, then erase them.  I am sorry this is the way it is.

kitkatz-Admin

[MooseMom]

There has to be a limit to member boxes, otherwise the bandwidth would be full of just messages and the site would be huge.  You will have to bite the bullet and erase some of them.  You could cut and paste PMs into Word that way you would have them, then erase them.  I am sorry this is the way it is.

kitkatz-Admin

What's the limit?

[kitkatz]

I think it is 200 messages per member.  However this is a guess.

[iolaire]

Honestly the whole argument that “we will run out of space” seems VERY antiquated. These messages should be extremely small unless users are sending photos back and forth. 

Could this limit be re-evaluated now that we have a new web host?

[MooseMom]

Honestly the whole argument that “we will run out of space” seems VERY antiquated. These messages should be extremely small unless users are sending photos back and forth. 

Could this limit be re-evaluated now that we have a new web host?

Good question!  I've had all of these PMs for all of these years, and all of a sudden, out of the blue, I find out I have "too many messages".  I don't know what is meant by being advised that my box is 685% full.  I mean, that doesn't even mean anything!  The last PM I received was from October of last year (I've since then deleted about 100 messages), so I don't know what happened in October of last year that now prevents me from sending or receiving PMs.

[Paul]

I don't know what happened in October of last year that now prevents me from sending or receiving PMs.

Could the post be in Iolaire's post?

..... now that we have a new web host?

[Simon Dog]

Could this limit be re-evaluated now that we have a new web host?

The forum software allows a message limit by member group, and is set as shown below.  Curiously, one gets to 250 messages when getting to 500 posts (Sr Member) then back to 100 once you hit 1000 posts (Elite Member).    This is just plain wrong.  This was not my doing, just something that probably happened when an admin thought (s)he was modifying more than one group.

We have the space to increase the limit substantially, however, I will wait for direction from KitKatz as she is the real admin.   Making policy decisions for the forum is outside my scope of practice.

Now, for the groups and post limits :

Code: [Select]

mysql> select id_group, group_name, min_posts, max_messages from smf_membergroups;
+----------+---------------------+-----------+--------------+
| id_group | group_name          | min_posts | max_messages |
+----------+---------------------+-----------+--------------+
|        1 | Administrator/Owner |        -1 |            0 |
|        2 | Global Moderator    |        -1 |          500 |
|        3 | Moderator           |        -1 |            0 |
|        4 | Newbie              |         0 |          100 |
|        5 | Jr. Member          |        50 |          100 |
|        6 | Full Member         |       100 |          100 |
|        7 | Sr. Member          |       500 |          250 |
|        8 | Elite Member        |      1000 |          100 |
|        9 | Member for Life     |      5000 |          100 |
|       11 | Administrator       |        -1 |            0 |
+----------+---------------------+-----------+--------------+
10 rows in set (0.00 sec)


otherwise the bandwidth would be full of just messages

Pardon me for going techie, but bandwidth refers to the volume of data transfer per unit time.    You are referring to storage.

The current database occupies 1.1GB of storage.   The personal message tables occupy a total of 3.16MB (including the second backup copy SMF maintains).    This means that personal messages take up less than one half of one percent of the storage.

For the Linux nerds:

Code: [Select]

[root@cloud ihatedia_smf1]

[root@cloud mysql]# du -skh  ihatedia_smf1
1.1G    ihatedia_smf1

# du -skh *personal*
12K     backup_smf_personal_messages_backup.frm
116K    backup_smf_personal_messages_backup.MYD
16K     backup_smf_personal_messages_backup.MYI
12K     backup_smf_personal_messages.frm
29M     backup_smf_personal_messages.MYD
1.5M    backup_smf_personal_messages.MYI
12K     smf_personal_messages_backup.frm
116K    smf_personal_messages_backup.MYD
16K     smf_personal_messages_backup.MYI
12K     smf_personal_messages.frm
29M     smf_personal_messages.MYD
1.4M    smf_personal_messages.MYI

[iolaire]

Thanks @Simon Dog

[MooseMom]

Thank you for that, Simon Dog.

Like I've said, I've been a member here for a long time, and I had never deleted ANY messages from ANY member, nor had I ever deleted any of my replies, until I did so the other week.  I actually bitterly regret doing that, and I don't want to do it again.  I have 658 messages (which include my replies), and I'd like to keep hold of them.  Many of the messages are from members who have passed or who no longer post here for whatever reason.  I don't know if they are still alive, and deleting their messages just seems sacrilgious to me. 

I sent a message to a fellow member late last year just to check up on her, and I've not received a reply.  I do not know if this person is still with us.  I got no notification that my box was too full or that I had reached any sort of limit.  I found out only because someone recently tried to send me a message but was unable to, and she pointed this out on another thread.  This is a member who had been away for awhile, and now I've seemingly lost her again.  She has not posted again.

Paul, I do recognize that having a new web host may have changed the limit, but that was a long time ago.  I still don't know what changed in October. 

Kitkatz, I would be very grateful if you could give the word to increase the limit for private messages.  As a long time member of IHD yourself, I'm would guess that you have the same sentimental feelings about such things!

[Simon Dog]

The system does not delete messages when the quota is decreased.  Somewhere along the line, someone or something (could be automated with an updated) decreased the quotas (see my previous messages).   There was no intentional alteration of the limit on my part.

I'd like to see a very high but not infinite limit, and readdress if anyone hits this new limit.

I have PMed kitkatz requesting she look at my post in this thread and comment.

[MooseMom]

The system does not delete messages when the quota is decreased.  Somewhere along the line, someone or something (could be automated with an updated) decreased the quotas (see my previous messages).   There was no intentional alteration of the limit on my part.

I'd like to see a very high but not infinite limit, and readdress if anyone hits this new limit.

I have PMed kitkatz requesting she look at my post in this thread and comment.

I didn't intend to suggest that you altered anything, Simon Dog, so I apologize if I gave you that impression.  The truth is that I have absolutely no idea what happened!

I have not seen any indication that the system deleted any messages.

I agree that it would be nice to have a very high limit, especially for those of us who have been around and active on this forum for a long time (yes, I'm pulling rank here!  LOL!), and I agree that it shouldn't necessarily be infinite.

If there is a new limit, it would be nice to know what it is.  It would also be nice to receive some notification if we are approaching that limit.  All of these functions would be nice to have as long as it does not cause undue burden.  I would imagine that many of us longtimers have many messages in their inbox they'd like to save if at all possible.

Thank you for your time, Simon Dog, and thank you for contacting Kitkatz.  I recognize that you do not have the authority to make these sorts of decisions, so I appreciate your efforts.   

[Simon Dog]

I didn't intend to suggest that you altered anything, Simon Dog, so I apologize if I gave you that impression.  The truth is that I have absolutely no idea what happened!

I have not seen any indication that the system deleted any messages.

I agree that it would be nice to have a very high limit, especially for those of us who have been around and active on this forum for a long time (yes, I'm pulling rank here!  LOL!), and I agree that it shouldn't necessarily be infinite.

1. You did not give that impression

2. The system allows the setting of limits based on member level, so kitkatz could order bigger limits for long term members.

3. Probably no easy way to do a warning, but we should have a response plan if someone notices they max out.   I may be able to put together a query to detect these to see if Max Headroom is on the horizon.

4..Kitkatz has PMed me indicating she is pondering this and will get back 2 me w/instructions.

[MooseMom]

Thank you, Simon Dog.

[kitkatz]

I am giving careful consideration to the request for more private message space.
I treat mine like my closet, if I have not looked at the messages in six months, out they go.  I just did a major clean out of messages.
You all have to remember a lot of the stuff behind the scenes was set up by Epoman and has not been changed in many years.
All I know is what he went by and he was paying for bandwidth for the site at the time so he was keeping things down to minimums; like pics
and messages. Also, if I find only one or two people are complaining, plus we have low posting to the site right now, I may leave it alone.  Now that I know increasing messages will not affect out site or the hosting site, I am thinking about it.   I have no idea why it would tell you your box it at 685%, that seems strange to me.  It might be something in simple machines background stuff that needs fixing. 
I am not a computer geek so I have no idea.

If you all who are concerned about this issue would answer a few questions:
Why do you need more space for messages? 
Why are you not erasing messages?
Why is there a need for you to keep 250 messages or more in your box?
Do you look at your saved messages regularly?

Please do not get angry with me asking questions and taking my time considering this issue.

kitkatz-Admin

[Simon Dog]

The most likely reason for 685% full etc was that a time must have existed when the limit did not exist or was higher, as old messages are not deleted when the limit is lowered.   This is not a bug that needs fixing, but an artifact of not purging mailboxes when their limit is lowered - in other words a NABWAD.  (Not A Bug, Working As Designed).

It is possible that some limits crept in as part of a version update of SMF, but no easy way to track that down and it doesn't really matter how we got here, just that we are here.

The one thing that needs fixing is the Sr Member 250 limit (see my earlier post).   We need to either lower the limit for Sr Member or increase the limit for higher level members.   It makes no sense for someone to have their limit lowered when they move from Sr Member to Elite Member

As to the question about 250 - most member classes are 100 messages; Sr Member is 250 and admins are unlimited except global admins who are limited to 500.  I think 100 is a rather low limit.

Deleting a message often doesn't.  The system deduplicates messages so if you send a message to 10 people, there is one copy.  It is only deleted from the database only when you and all of the recipients delete the message.  I peeked and we have many messages (probably a majority) that were deleted by the sender but still exist because not all recipients deleted them.  In other words, limiting mailbox size is not quite as effective as one might assume.

like pics and messages

When it comes to storage space one pic is worth more than 1000 words 

[MooseMom]

Thanks, Kitkatz, for your questions!  I'm happy to answer!

1.  I apparently need more room for messages because as it stands now, I cannot receive any more as my box is full.  I would like fellow IHDers to be able to message me if they so choose.

2.  I treat my closets like my closets; if I have not worn something for a while, out it goes.  But my IHD mailbox is not my closet; it contains conversations from people who trusted me with their feelings at difficult times in their lives.  It contains pleas for help, for consolation, for confidence or for outright secrecy.  I find it difficult to discard them like I could discard a pair of shoes I no longer need, particularly if those messages are from people who are no longer with us.  I don't know if some of these people are alive; some, I know, are dead.  I would like to keep a memory of them especially since in some cases, I don't know their real names.  Deleting them feels disrepectful

3.  I also keep my replies.  More than once someone will ask me a question or request some advice, and I will remember how in some time past someone has asked the same.  I can refer back to an earlier reply to an earlier question so that I can be consistent or to remind myself how clever I was.     Keeping my replies enables me to follow the entire discussion.  Keeping my replies also, in effect, doubles the amount of messages in my box (if I have understood that correctly).

4.  No, I do not look at my saved messages regularly.  However, I do like knowing they are there.  The reflect my own history on IHD that is parallel to my public posts.  Just as I don't particularly want to have to delete other people's histories from my inbox, I don't want to delete my own.

To Simon Dog's question, I've never sent a PM to anyone that contained a picture.  It is entirely possible that a few messages in my inbox DO contain a picture or two, but that would be a rarity.

I hope my answers help.  If you have others, just let me know.

And thanks, Simon Dog for the "likely reason" for what's going on.  I understand the concept of NABWAD! 

[kitkatz]

 I wonder why it goes back to 100 messages for elite, that seems crazy to me.  And why does a global admin have a limit on messages.


kitkatz, Admin

[Simon Dog]

No idea why, but those are the values that are currently set.  The fact that some people have well over 100% full suggests it was not always this way.

[Paul]

I have no need of a bigger message limit. However, it crosses my mind in a case like MooseMom's: If there is no adverse effect on the board and no extra cost to the people who run the board if MooseMom's storage is increased, then "Should we do it?" is the wrong question to ask. If MooseMom wants/needs her limit increased and it costs you nothing, then the question to ask is "Why shouldn't we do it?" If it makes no difference to you, then give her the extra storage!

[kitkatz]

Admin/Owner     Unlimited
Global Mod   1000
Mod             1000
Newbie      100
Jr. Member   200
Full member   300
Sr. Member    500
Elite Member   700
Member for Life   1000
Admin     Unlimited

Here is the brand new message limits.  Enjoy!

kitkatz-Admin

[iolaire]

thanks @kitkatz

[MooseMom]

Thanks so much, kitkatz! 

[kitkatz]

Thanks to Simon Dog for fixing it so quickly one I gave him numbers!

[cassandra]

And that's why I love y'all!