Help! cramps all over the body, what can be wrong? :( PD patient

[CatonTheRoof]

Hello People,

It's Cat once again from Colombia.     It's been a while since I was last here.  Still waiting for the transplant, still waiting to see that miracle happening..

Anyway,   for those of you that don't know, I'm 26 years old male from Colombia.  I have been on Peritoneal dialysis since 10/2011 ,  and previously on haemo for 5 months.      I still have residual function +1  daily lit of output.      On night cycler,  and having had issues keeping my phosphorus well for many months. 

About a month and a half ago, I started feeling once in a while a excruciating cramp in my right buttocks.  It would stuck there pressing and causing me pain for at least 5 minutes.     Triggers would usually be having seated for too long or lying in bed and then moving abruptly.      Until a week and a half ago I thought it could have been some injury I caused myself.    But then, along with a cold (flu-like I started having a week ago)   cramps in most muscles of my body started occuring throughout the day.    Under the rib cage, back,   buttocks, legs.   But usually not one as strong as the original one. 

I have no idea what could be causing this?  I will see my doctor later this week (blood tests will be done)  but until then I have been given by another doctor 2mg  daily of tizadin (zanaflex)   but still have got some cramps even while taking this.

Could it be my phosphorus?   my Hemoglobin values haven't been so good lately either  (around 10.5)     ?

Please,  has anyone had something similar?   

[Dualref]

 I have this kind of pain that eminates from my right hip. As you said it comes after you are laying there for awhile and then you move suddenly. I also have high phosphorous too. At first I thought I injured my hip somehow, but that's not the case. It doesn't act up very often, just now and then. I haven't found anything that will stop it. My nephrologist has suggested that this can come from long term Prednisone use too. Very early on in my treatment the docs had me on a high dose of prednisone. But it's been years since I've been off of that.

[CatonTheRoof]

I took prednisolone for only 2 weeks when my kidney failure was detected.  It wasn't that much of a dosis either. So I don't think this is causing the problem 

[kristina]

Hello Caton,
                 unfortunately I don't have an answer to your problem but I also suffer from occassional cramps
... (not in the region you describe above, but during dialysis I regularly suffer from terrible excruciating cramps in one of my legs etc....)
... I have never taken any corticosteroids (i.e. prednisolone etc.) and I would like to ask you kindly to please share it with us
if and when you are given an answer to your problem with these cramps,
... and it might inspire me to find an explanation about my own cramps and perhaps find an answer what to do about it ...
Many thanks and I wish you good luck to find an answer to your problem and feel better soon,
all the best from Kristina.

[kickingandscreaming]

I feel your pain, Cat.  I too get cramps, mostly in the night.  I'm also on PD so it's probably not a too dry issue in my case.  I posted a recent thread on the same topic and people have a lot of theories of what works.  I really don't think anyone has THE ANSWER.  I certainly haven't found one yet.  I would suggest using the search function on the forum with the word "cramp" and lots of threads will come up.  Perhaps one of them will be helpful to you.  Here's my thread for starters:
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=33203.0

I wish you luck.  I know how awful these can be.

[cassandra]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that it is actually possible to get too dry on PD.

Love, Cas

[kickingandscreaming]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that it is actually possible to get too dry on PD.

I suppose it's possible, Cass.  I have mentioned the cramping to my neph and PD nurse and all they ever say is maybe it's electrolytes, but no one ever does anything about it.  It would happen to me a couple of times at the end of a hemo session and saline would stop it.  My understanding is that PD is gentle and can't take off all that much fluid at a time.  Although I haven't kept records, I don't seem to think my cramping tracks with days with a high UF or low fluid intake.  But I'm guessing.

[cassandra]

My thinking is this: with yellow bags I would take off less fluid than with green or red bags. I also think that even if I would not have excess fluid on me, either bag would take fluid off. I also know that without any kidney function, without passing urine, or having diarea or something, if I don't drink I can get dehydrated even if I don't dialyse. I also think that your dry weight weight fluctuates.

So my conclusion is that it must be poss to take off too much fluid with any form of D. It is even poss to get dehydrated with completely perfect kidneys if you loose more liquid than your body needs to function properly.

I think it's poss to accumulate fluid, so it's poss to accumulate 'dryness.

So cramping doesn't necessarily have to coincide with a high UF.

How is your BP?

Love, Cas

[kickingandscreaming]

How is your BP?

Doesn't seem to have anything to do with cramping.  My BP has always been high.  I think that's why I have kidney failure. Since starting PD and getting the right program going my BP has been better than ever.  But it still fluctuates between high 120's and 150s (used to be mostly in the 170s)  Diastolic has always been in range.  I'm 74 so I'm allowed to run a bit higher than a younger person. But I never get the lows that people on hemo seem to get.

[Charlie B53]

A combination of slightly dehydrated AND low potassium will bring on cramps.  Most often in the large muscles of the upper buttocks and legs as these being the largest and most used muscles in moving the whole body.

Electrolyte imbalance also contributes.

Eating a banana, drinking one beer.  I don't care much for beer, never have.  But it does have good electrolytes.  Gatorade or pedeolyte are also good choices.

These values can change in a day very easily.  Especially if you have been active in the yard on a very warm day so waiting for your Dr to draw labs may not show the reason for cramps many days ago.  You pretty much have to draw the blood at the time of the cramps.


I' my case, poor circulation due to arterial clotting also contributes.  For this reason when I do have cramping I also take one aspirin, to help thin the blood and allow it to flow just a wee bit better.

[CatonTheRoof]

Thanks all for your recommendations    


I haven't had such cramps in 3 weeks.  Last I had was very mild (3 days ago)   and it was caused for sitting for around 4 hours in a row playing a game online.         Today my nephrologist told me that the cramps were possibly caused by being slightly dehydrated.

[Rerun]

Yes, I think Cas is right.  Just like on hemo you can gain weight and need your bag strengths corrected.