I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: boxman55 on September 28, 2007, 05:01:11 PM

Title: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on September 28, 2007, 05:01:11 PM
I changed my run times to the afternoon starting at 1:30 till 5:00 I have been doing this know 5x There is a guy will call him Stuart who shows up at the same time I do and sits right on the other side of my curtain. After about an hour and no more then two hours (all 5x), Stuart starts calling for the nurse to take him off. He is very demanding and doesn't listen to the nurses trying to explain to him, well that if he keeps doing this he is going to die a slow death. He doesn't seem to care and if they don't immediately start taking him off he will try and stand up and cause all kinds of problems for them. So I am thinking maybe I should start talking to him to try and keep him from being bored and maybe stop him from leaving early or should I just let him kill himself....Any suggestions?   Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on September 28, 2007, 06:03:40 PM
Just let him kill himself.   no (JK) I would talk to him once and try to explain to him he is upsetting others. If he gets crappy with you than ask him why he comes at all. If he still gets crappy then just let him kill himself. But then again thats just lil ole me Mr Insensitive.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Romona on September 28, 2007, 07:22:52 PM
You never know if you could could impact his life. Or you might drive him over the edge! I think it is worth a try.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paris on September 28, 2007, 07:46:28 PM
He may be very scared or alone--everyone has a story and you may make a difference in his storyline.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: jbeany on September 28, 2007, 08:22:32 PM
I had a woman doing the same thing next to me - it was an anxiety disorder.  She'd start to panic after being in the chair for too long.  Her doc gave her some nice happy pills, and she stopped the screaming and hollering.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: goofynina on September 28, 2007, 08:31:48 PM
That is a hard situation to be in Boxman but i agree with the others (not Sluff though)  :urcrazy;  lol,  I say to at least try and talk to him, see if maybe he has a way of getting to a pc and invite him to this awesome website we have here ;) ;)  Remind him he is not alone, i know i felt like i was alone for a long time (before i found this awesome site)  No one could or would understand what i was going through, what i was feeling and it was pointless to try and explain to them cuz 9 times out of 10, they didnt care anyways, or if they did care, it all just confused the hell out of them (i am so good at confusing people) :P   Good luck to you and Please keep us posted as to how or what you plan on doing.    :clap;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on September 28, 2007, 08:39:14 PM
If it were me... I would give it a try... worst that can happen is he don't listen, and dies his slow death... but you know in your heart you tried.  :grouphug;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: jblamb on September 29, 2007, 03:52:54 AM
I would try to talk to him at the early stage of his run so he might be more receptive. I wouldn't tell him he is annoying anyone but I would tell him about this site. I would also share whatever positives you have with him about treatment. Find out if he has a portable dvd player to pass the time better. Good luck.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: glitter on September 29, 2007, 07:55:09 AM
there is a fellow who sits near my husband who comes in-goes to sleep for an hour or so- and when he wakes up, he demands they let him go every time- he doesn't care what they say to him, he does not want to hear it. He is about four chairs away from my husband so he isn't close enough to talk to- but its sad nonetheless.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on September 29, 2007, 09:39:55 AM
there is a fellow who sits near my husband who comes in-goes to sleep for an hour or so- and when he wakes up, he demands they let him go every time- he doesn't care what they say to him, he does not want to hear it. He is about four chairs away from my husband so he isn't close enough to talk to- but its sad nonetheless.
Sounds like "Stuart" no matter how nice or stern the techs are he won't stand for no when he decides it is time to stop the run. I guess when I see him next I am going to ask why he even bothers coming in...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Romona on September 29, 2007, 06:05:57 PM
Sometimes it is easier to talk about your troubles with a stranger than with close family or friends. Maybe he will open up to you. Maybe he will see you as someone to look up to. I know all of you here have inspired me. No matter how alone I feel, you guys know how I feel. Deep down you worry about this guy and want to help or you wouldn't have started this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: RichardMEL on September 30, 2007, 09:06:14 AM
It may help for him to hear from a paitent.. he can't claim you don't know what it's like or anything. It's worth a try - as much for your own conscence as anything else. If he decides to keep going his own way well at some point you just have to let them do whatever they decide to do with their life even if you know it's going to lead to a bad outcome.

good luck.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on October 01, 2007, 04:27:12 PM
Well Stuart was there today I stopped at his chair and introduced myself. Turns out he has a speech problem and barely wanted to say hi. I asked him how he was and all I got was a stare. I felt uncomfortable standing there so I went back to my chair. He did leave early again. Maybe I should write a note...I don't no....Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: goofynina on October 01, 2007, 05:00:04 PM
Good for you Boxman,  :clap; I am sure he went home thinking about  you,  just like you say in your sig line "DAY BY DAY"  keep stopping by and telling him HI and hopefully he will come around.  Hang in there my friend,  :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on October 01, 2007, 06:25:29 PM
It's possible no one has the fortitude to attempt to make contact and he was just took by surprise that you did.  He may come around.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Romona on October 01, 2007, 06:38:34 PM
Someone once told me, "Look at people through a blind man's eyes". You did a very nice thing by approaching him. I think a note is a great idea. If he doesn't respond, then you tried to help.

I am so guilty of misjudging people as being rude or arrogant, only to find out they have hearing problems. Taking the time to communicate with them by making sure they could see me as I was speaking to them, really paid off.

You are a wonderful person by taking the first step. I hope he takes advantage of your offer of friendship.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on October 02, 2007, 07:45:49 AM
Thanks for the support and kind words. I will continue to make my presence known to him...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paddbear0000 on October 03, 2007, 11:42:06 AM
Maybe get him a card--one of those "just saying hi" kind. Write something about how you just wanted to say hi and get to know him better and have someone to vent with. I bet a card would brighten his day.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: glitter on October 03, 2007, 01:55:57 PM
dont forget to give him the website if your already writing hi!
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paddbear0000 on October 03, 2007, 02:01:25 PM
dont forget to give him the website if your already writing hi!

 :oops; my bad...
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: okarol on October 03, 2007, 02:11:17 PM
dont forget to give him the website if your already writing hi!

The "OFFICIAL" IHateDialysis.com flyer. Print out and place at your center! http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=438.0 -- good conversation starter!
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on October 03, 2007, 04:38:23 PM
Well I saw him today in the lobby for a couple minutes said hi he returned the greeting then got up and headed in to his chair. He left again after about 2 hours. All the techs say there is no stopping him from leaving and because of his speech problem no talking to him. Maybe a card will see...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: goofynina on October 03, 2007, 07:16:54 PM
Hey, well at least you got a greeting back, that is cool right?  :2thumbsup;  I admire what you are doing and why you are doing it Boxman, i think it is awesome that you care enough to be concerned for this man, your awesome my friend  :clap;   About his speech problem,  is it that he doesn not speak or is it that he cant?  I dont understand that part, but either way, i am sure your kindness is impacting him in some good way, dont give up  :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Bajanne on October 03, 2007, 08:04:08 PM
I am sorry, but I only just saw this thread.  You are doing a good job.  Just letting him know that there is someone who is caring enough to say Hi is going to work on him.  We are with you in this.  Looking forward to hearing how it is going.
Aren't there any family members there?  Do you know how he leaves (transport)?
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: keefer51 on October 04, 2007, 01:48:46 AM
Boxman55, I know how you feel. At my center there is a man who was on his way out. You see i try and go to the center with a positive attitude and a smile on my face. If you are in my center on dialysis you either say; "Hey there's Keefer!" or you may say; Great, There is #*@! This one guy would say the latter. One day i got the courage and went to his chair after i was done. He looked at me and i could see the emptiness in his life. He told me about his wife leaving him etc... He told me he didn't care anymore and was going to put on as much fluid as he wanted to. He then told me that just the other night he was in his bathtub with a gun to his head. I sat down beside him and just let him talk man to man. I saw him fight the tears he cried many times. After awhile i did make him laugh. He is still with us. He is trying hard to control his fluid intake. So i think you should approach this man and talk about something he is interested in. Then maybe tell him of the importance of staying for the whole treatment.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Deanne on October 04, 2007, 08:47:05 AM
I don't post much, but I have to say.... I really hope I sit next to one of you when I have to start dialysis!!!! You're all awesome!
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paris on October 04, 2007, 10:03:01 AM
Keefer, what a hero you are to that man!  It is so easy to keep to ourselves and not reach out.  Thankfully for him, you reached out and helped.  :bow;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Romona on October 04, 2007, 03:14:42 PM
A story like Keefers shows you can make a difference.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on October 15, 2007, 04:49:32 PM
Well Stuart I think is heading south. Last Friday he showed up but then decided to leave right away. He was here today I said hi but he was waiting to leave again. I asked the nurse and she said we are trying everything to get him to stay but he left again with out going on. Man that is 5 days straight without dialysis on top of all the short days before that...
Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on October 15, 2007, 05:25:02 PM
Least you tried.

Sounds like he didn't want to do dialysis to begin with, but also didn't want to just quit..  I pray he has a painless end.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Black on October 15, 2007, 05:49:12 PM
Well Stuart I think is heading south. Last Friday he showed up but then decided to leave right away. He was here today I said hi but he was waiting to leave again. I asked the nurse and she said we are trying everything to get him to stay but he left again with out going on. Man that is 5 days straight without dialysis on top of all the short days before that...
Boxman

At least you tried; you have a kind heart.   :cuddle;

Has the SW not tried to talk to him or anyone in his family?  It's not fair to you that you are trying to do their job.

Let's pray that he still has some residual function which will hold him until he comes to terms with dialysis.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: lola on October 15, 2007, 05:53:38 PM
Boxman at least you tried but he's made up his mind. K-man you are so awsome and I love you and miss you in chat!!!!! :cuddle;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 13, 2007, 05:47:04 PM
Well Stuart is still up to his leaving early. He now says hi to me by name though. I learned that his speech problem was caused by a stroke he had awhile back. When he was trying to leave early again Monday, the nurse asked him if he wanted to die, Stuart didn't answer right at first, she then said "yes-no- maybe" Stuarts answer finally was "maybe" Sitting next to him and watching and listening to him create a scene until they take him off early every time is driving me nuts. Honestly I don't know how he lasts with hardly a hour or so of dialysis each time...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: MyssAnne on November 13, 2007, 06:00:21 PM
It makes you wonder if the stroke caused damage to his facility to reason and to think as wel. SURELY he has a caregiver? There is NO way he could be living on hs own!!  Boxman, and Keefer, I give you guys kudos for reaching out. Good for you guys.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on November 14, 2007, 06:47:19 AM
It makes you wonder if the stroke caused damage to his facility to reason and to think as wel.

Doesn't make me wonder one bit.... I can totally understand someone not wanting to do dialysis at all, or anymore... I just dont get why bother coming in for an hour to just leave... makes me think he's truly unsure, and hence why he said "maybe", as he don't know for sure yet, which is why he comes and does at least some of the session.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: kellyt on November 14, 2007, 01:02:24 PM
I totally agree with Angela.   Why does he go through all the trouble to go and then just leave? Maybe he's being sent there by a higher power  and you're supposed to intervein.   ???    Give him the flier - lay your hand on his shoulder - hopefully he'll respond.  Good Luck!   :thumbup;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 14, 2007, 04:33:53 PM
Today they hooked him up at 1:10pm (I overheard the nurse say they needed to remove 4.2 kilos) and he was trying to stand up and leave by 2:00pm Both me and another patient, Kristine who sits on the other side of Stuart tried to convince him to stay longer but, he does not listen to anybody. He even tries to stand while his cath is still hooked to the machine. He is very determined when he wants to leave....Boxman

PS There is a social worker that sits with him while he has dialysis but, she can't get him to stay either, she just makes sure he gets on the right transport bus.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: goofynina on November 14, 2007, 04:41:07 PM
I dont get it, why do they allow him to continue to come in?  I am sure there is someone who wants or needs that chair and is serious enough about their lives that they would take advantage of the 3 or 4 hours they can dialyze.  It is obvious that he does not and i think they should give him a wake up call and tell him that with no treatment he will be dead in so long and if that they are considering dropping him for being so non compliant,  (to me THAT is what noncompliant is) sheeesh  :twocents; 
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on November 14, 2007, 06:41:26 PM
Just let him kill himself.   no (JK) I would talk to him once and try to explain to him he is upsetting others. If he gets crappy with you than ask him why he comes at all. If he still gets crappy then just let him kill himself. But then again thats just lil ole me Mr Insensitive.


:bump;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 16, 2007, 04:26:31 PM
Stuart was gone by 2pm again today.  (one hour on the machine) I found out from a tech today that for some reason he didn't know why, the Doctor reduced some meds Stuart was taking to keep him more or less sedated so he wouldn't get so nervous and want to leave early. I also found out that they crank the machine up to get as much fluid off of him in a hours time knowing that he will want to leave early. That doesn't seem like the right approach but who am I to diagnose...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paris on November 16, 2007, 04:33:16 PM
I feel sad for Stuart.  One day he just won't be there anymore and you, Boxman, may be the only one who cares.  What a kind person you are.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on November 16, 2007, 04:34:48 PM
Stuart was gone by 2pm again today.  (one hour on the machine) I found out from a tech today that for some reason he didn't know why, the Doctor reduced some meds Stuart was taking to keep him more or less sedated so he wouldn't get so nervous and want to leave early. I also found out that they crank the machine up to get as much fluid off of him in a hours time knowing that he will want to leave early. That doesn't seem like the right approach but who am I to diagnose...Boxman


I'm surprised they gave you that information but a little relieved that they are taking somewhat corrective action to deal with this individual.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 19, 2007, 10:45:14 PM
I wanted to update on Stuart today (Monday) but, I was told by a tech that he came in, they started soaking his cath and before they could hook him up, he wanted to go and did. Never saw  him today. Retaining fluid all weekend and then no treatment on Monday man I don't know how he can do it...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paddbear0000 on November 20, 2007, 08:49:10 AM
I would think that with all those toxins building up, his mind isn't quite right (more so than before). I'd be prepared not to see him much, if at all, anymore!   :(
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: okarol on November 27, 2007, 10:05:00 AM
Any update on Stuart?
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 27, 2007, 01:39:26 PM
Yes as a matter of fact, I found out that Stuart's caregiver is his brother and I was told that he is forcing Stuart to go to dialysis. Stuart has said a few times that he doesn't want to be there. Both Friday the 23rd and Monday (yesterday) he was in his chair for just over a hour and then started acting up, I have been told that he has come close to pulling his cath out (once or twice) while he is trying to get out of his chair. Now me only sitting 5' from him with just a half wall between us, that could get a little messy. He looks the same but he was coughing a lot yesterday. Like I said before because they run him as fast as they can while he is on they still can not get all his blood clean or all his fluid removed. It will catch up to him soon I've been told. All the techs (at least the ones I have talked too) have opinions and concerns...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Wattle on November 27, 2007, 02:01:11 PM


:cuddle;  Boxman I am sorry you are on the same shift as Stuart. It seems as if everyone has tried to help but he just doesn't want to help himself. We all know dialysis is not for sissies (thanks to KT0930 hubby) and we all have to take responsibility for our treatment. It will catch up with him and I really hope he is not sitting next to you when it does. I realize he has problems but I think he is incredibly selfish to put the rest of the clinic through his drama. Maybe he needs to be admitted to hospital to be properly assessed mentally and have some descent dialysis. He may then feel a little better and be more able to think clearly.

You have done what you can and what ever the outcome, you will always know you tried to help him.   :grouphug;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Lori1851 on November 27, 2007, 02:03:51 PM
Boxman,
Maybe a nice magazine handed to this guy may give him something to due. LOL Not a dirty one either lol lol just kidding.
Anyways, you are at doing your part by acknowledging him.

Lori/Indiana mom to Dustin 22 fsgs/dialysis
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 27, 2007, 03:23:27 PM
Thanks for your thoughts Wattle and Lori, I'd like to knock him out then at least he would sleep through his treatment...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Lori1851 on November 27, 2007, 03:38:13 PM
Boxman,
Sounds like Sturat needs an antidepressant did wonders for my son. Poor guy. I will pray for him. I pray for all of you's anyways ;) Hey whats one more! God knows I need it!
Lori/Indiana
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on November 27, 2007, 03:40:30 PM
Boxman you have concern for Stuart enough that it must really Bother you.

I don't know if I would have pursued this as much as you have, you are a special person for doing so. I think one last gesture you could try is ask the nurses if you would write a letter to Stuart could they forward it if you pre stamp it to him by snail mail. Write a lengthy letter explaining to him that you care and would appreciate correspondence if he felt open to doing so. I dunno but one last ditch effort I guess.. maybe a christmas card from a concerned friend at the clinic?
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Wattle on November 27, 2007, 04:00:43 PM

you are a special person

I second that!   :)
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paris on November 27, 2007, 05:36:43 PM
Boxman, you are such a good person.  Poor Stuart. His life must not be very good. You have certainly reached out and tried to help him.   I think we all agree that you have been a very good samaritan; a great role model for all of us.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on November 28, 2007, 11:52:30 AM
I guess I am the only one with a different view on this. I don't know how old this guy is, but whatever his age, he is an adult and can make up his own mind and his brother has no right to force him to go to dialysis if he doesn't wish to. I'm sorry but when it's my time to go back on dialysis and if i'm ready to go... let me go.. I won't stand for anyone forcing me to go on when I do not wish too... and that's his right. Just as people can sign a DNR, he should be able to choose not to be on dialysis and let nature take him. *shrug* I just find it cruel when we try to keep people around that do NOT want to be around anymore.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 28, 2007, 05:04:57 PM
Well I will tell ya Angela, he just might get his wish one of these day, today to get the techs to take him off after only an hour and a half he started pulling on the tubes and his catheter, he does this to get them to move faster, one of these days it will come out. Don't want to see that...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: George Jung on November 28, 2007, 07:47:07 PM
No Angela, you are not the only one.  If anyone tried forcing me to continue treatment I would pack a bag and be on my way.  I don't like how society just expects people to do dialysis like there is not a choice about it.  Before man made the the machine it was totally acceptable for nature to take it's course and now many look at it like it is suicide or something when someone choses not to.  I just don't get it sometimes.

It defiantly is a good thing that boxman has done (in my opinion), to show that someone cares and to give Stuart something to consider.  I think all we can do is to be kind and compassionate to inspire others to do the same.  Thanks boxman.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: karen547 on November 29, 2007, 07:37:56 AM
I know how Boxman feels- there is a man in my unit who acts somewhat similar- he quite often is saying he wants off his machine, how he wants a beer, etc. I sometimes feel like saying something but he is how he is I guess. This is also the same man who stares at me quite a lot so ya...... it's a bit awkward, and some days I actually hope he isn't on the same team as me so I am a bit conflicted...
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: stauffenberg on November 29, 2007, 09:26:27 AM
Although it seems that no one in hospital and clinic settings understands this, from the doctors to the nurses to the patients, it is illegal, a commission of the criminal act of battery, to administer any treatment to anyone who refuses it.  I have seen a patient on dialysis in such severe pain from needling that he said: "No, it isn't worth it, let me go!" and then the nurses held him down in his chair and forced him to be hooked up to the machine.  At that point I could have called the police and they would have had a duty to arrest those nurses for assault causing bodily harm, which in Canada is a crime punishable by up to ten years' imprisonment.

I have often found that patients admitted to the hospital think that they are not free to leave the hospital at any time, and instead have to receive permission from the staff before going out the door.  This is also a false assumption, for being hospitalized is not the same as being lawfully detained, and anyone who tells you or tries to keep you by force in a hospital when you want to leave it is committing the crime of false imprisonment.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on November 29, 2007, 09:47:46 AM
Somehow this thread got off of topic..or I missed something. I think the whole thing is Boxman was trying to help this individual because he felt that the guy may not be informed enough or ignorant of the fact to how dialysis is needed if you want to sustain life and is merely trying to put this mans mind at ease and make him feel like he has a friend. That's it. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to force him to receive medical attention against his will.

I beleive it is choice also..just for the record.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Adam_W on November 29, 2007, 09:54:51 AM
Somehow this thread got off of topic..or I missed something. I think the whole thing is Boxman was trying to help this individual because he felt that the guy may not be informed enough or ignorant of the fact to how dialysis is needed if you want to sustain life and is merely trying to put this mans mind at ease and make him feel like he has a friend. That's it. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to force him to receive medical attention against his will.

I beleive it is choice also..just for the record.
Actually, Stuart's brother is apparently forcing him to go to dialysis but he doesn't want to. I'm really glad that Boxman is trying to help, but I also agree that it should be Stuart's (and any one else's) choice whether or not to do dialysis.

Adam
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on November 29, 2007, 09:56:03 AM
Somehow this thread got off of topic..or I missed something.
That's it. I don't think anyone is intentionally trying to force him to receive medical attention against his will.

The topic was "Should I get involved", and when asked a question about 'Stuart', one of his responses was that Stuart's brother forces him to come to dialysis, and that's probably why Stuart does what he does to get off the machine, because he does not wish to be there to begin with and is going against his will... so that's kind of how my response came about relating to the topic.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on November 29, 2007, 10:39:03 AM
Ok got it. I missed that I guess.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: KT0930 on November 29, 2007, 01:33:47 PM
I agree that dialysis is a personal choice that each (potential) patient must make for him or herself, and it is wrong that Stuart's brother seems to be forcing him to go against his will - has the brother ever come to the unit and sat through a treatment with him to see what it's like?

That being said, I think Boxman is doing exactly the right thing. He's not forcing his opinion on Stuart, simply trying to let him know what will happen if he continues to refuse treatment. He's helping this man make an informed decision. If Stuart doesn't want to hear it, I'm very sorry. Boxman, thank you for what you're doing. I don't think I'd have the courage to do it.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on November 29, 2007, 01:41:30 PM
If someone can explain to me how the brain functions after a stroke we might get where Stuart is coming from. His speech is impaired so he is a little hard to understand and he has to walk with a walker. His brother is his guardian since the stroke. What I don't get is he shows up every time for treatment but just can't make it through it. I think he starts getting really anxious or nervous after a period of time for what ever reason. Sometimes it is 5 min or sometimes 1-1/2 hours. I was told for a time he was medicated but I was also told the Doctor pulled the medication, but don't know why. I never saw him when he was on medication because for a long time I was on a differant shift. Just to clarify once he is hooked up and then wants to leave, the nurses will honor his request but mostly have to work pretty fast because like I said he will try and stand up and also he will pull on his catheter...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Romona on November 29, 2007, 02:09:16 PM
I don't know much about people suffering from strokes. My brother's friend had several when she was young. She definitely sees the world differently. There are so many questions when it comes to someone's rights. Even though his brother is guardian it maybe of his financial affairs only. If his brother is not guardian of the "person", Stuart can still make his medical decisions on his own and his wishes should be honored. My husband's family went through some this legal stuff with his brother and I wished I remembered more. I imagine it would vary from state to state.

Boxman, I think you are so awesome reaching out to him and trying to understand! :angel;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on November 29, 2007, 02:50:16 PM
Every stroke victim reacts different depending on what portion of the brain is effected.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: okarol on December 08, 2007, 07:50:53 PM
Stuart might have dementia or Alzheimer's. His short term memory could be impaired, so he thinks he is done when he really needs to stay. Just guessing. Any news on how he's doing?
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on December 09, 2007, 07:24:40 AM
Stuart is coming to treatment and still wanting to leave early. Lately though I have found him sleeping when I get there which helps in keeping him a little longer. I have noticed lately also that he will grab a tech's hand (female) and won't let go. When the tech asked for him to let go he just starts laughing. This will last a minute or so then he lets go. He has a pretty nasty cough these days and still only stays on the machine for about an hour and a half at the most, sometimes less...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: goofynina on December 09, 2007, 04:18:26 PM
That is scary, him grabbing a techs hand and laughing, it really sounds like he isnt all there, poor guy.  But it is good that he is getting a little more dialysis (while he is asleep)  Thanks for keeping us updated on Stuart, if he only knew that he had so many friends caring for him here at IHD.  :grouphug;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: thegrammalady on December 09, 2007, 05:11:53 PM
since everything doesn't seem to be connected right, he, at least, has an excuse . we have a guy at my center who definitely knows what he's doing. he just wants it all his way or he's not going to participate. we have scheduled on times and his is 6am. yet he shows up at 5:15 when all the 5:30 on times do and expects to be put on then because he's there. if he doesn't get the tech he wants he walks out. it doesn't matter that the tech has 4 patients of her own she must take care of. he's there, he wants what he wants and everything is supposed to be rescheduled to meet his needs. the staff is refusing to cater to him, so more often than not he just walks out, after making his displeasure well known. he's younger than i am (maybe in his 30's) and should know better, stuart apparently doesn't
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on December 09, 2007, 06:05:21 PM
what a pain in the ass that guy sounds like. Stuart doesn't bother other patients there is more of a concern for him from the patients along with the techs. Your guy at 5:30 in the morning needs a good chewing out...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on December 09, 2007, 06:07:16 PM
To each his own. Maye the 530 guy don't want to look like he's giving up, so he's being an ass instead. Either, his choice. It would be nice if he wasn't an ass to everyone and just ot bother coming in, but eh... his time will soon end as he must want since he knows the consequences.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: kimcanada on December 10, 2007, 03:30:07 PM
I had a guy in the bed beside me that sounds JUST like your neighbor,  he has been transfered to a site closer to his home now. 

Anyhow...  He was the meanest , rudest person I have ever seen, I ignored him from the first time he told off a nurse, then one day we started talking, and a few days later we were even having talks.

Believe it or not he did mellow, some people are their own worst enemy's.

Good Luck with your neighbor Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on January 10, 2008, 07:52:16 AM
It's been a month since I spoke of Stuart, he is coming in regularly but still wanting to leave early which he is. Because he sits across the way from me I overheard his lab reports for the month when the social worker came by to discuss. The main concern she said was getting more time on the machine but, she did tell him that most everything looks good. Stuart waves to me and says "hi Mark", when I get there and then usually goes to sleep shortly after that. All in all I think he is doing OK...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: stauffenberg on January 10, 2008, 11:46:27 AM
For a while I was in the two-station quarantine room of my dialysis center because of an infection with one of the infamous hospital 'super bugs,' VRE.  My set time for starting dialysis was 6 PM, and I was dialyzed there with an older woman whose appointed time was 6:30 PM.  She kept coming earlier and earlier, as though we were in some sort of open competition to see who could get on first, and because she was eventually there either simultaneously with me or shortly before, the nurse would often be confused and put her on first, thus forcing me to wait around, while the woman on dialysis would cast a look of scornful triumph in my direction at having beaten me in what she took to be our 'race.'  Eventually the staff spotted her trick and sternly reminded her to wait her turn, which she treated as some kind of insult.  What was curious about the whole incident was that she had deliberately chosen 6:30 as her dialysis time even before I was in that room with her, yet once I was there too, she had to have my time because it was earlier.

At another dialysis unit there was a young male who was temporarily on dialysis because he was having problems with his PD treatment.  He seemed to think the nurses were like waitresses and would snap his fingers at them to get their attention, often calling out to them in a commanding tone when his treatment was finished, saying "Heh, come on, I'm done!!"  No one told him he directly that he was behaving rudely, but the nurses started systematically ignoring his calls and finger snapping, always finding something else to do first, so that put him in his place.  I always wondered why he did not notice how different his behavior was from that of all the other patients at the center.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: kellyt on January 10, 2008, 02:59:30 PM
Stuart waves to me and says "hi Mark", when I get there and then usually goes to sleep shortly after that. All in all I think he is doing OK...Boxman


I think that's wonderful!  Good job!  You obviously made a difference.  Maybe a small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on February 02, 2008, 05:43:24 AM
Well it has been 3 weeks since I updated my friend Stuart's condition. He must be doing something right even though he continues to leave early. It doesn't seem to have much of an effect (in a bad way) on him. He is alert when I get there and makes an effort to say hi then he doses off and no less then an hour or so later he wants to go, and off he goes. Never says goodbye though. He's a trooper...Box
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on February 02, 2008, 05:46:56 AM
Maybe Stuart is smarter than we think.  :)
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: KT0930 on February 02, 2008, 10:37:22 AM
Even though he seems to be refusing treatment (to an extent), he must be following the diet and fluid restrictions if his labs are still ok. Perhaps he's still early in his ESRD and doesn't need as much time as is prescribed for him? Whatever it is, thanks for keeping us updated, Boxman.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: NVRWKN on February 02, 2008, 02:16:39 PM
Sounds like he has some other issues. You gave it a shot. I would just leave it alone. I know it's hard sometimes. But some people are beyond our help.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: paris on February 02, 2008, 03:38:21 PM
Boxman, you have made a difference in Stuart's life. I think of him often and am glad you keep us updated. :cuddle;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on February 02, 2008, 06:55:34 PM
Thanks Paris, that is very kind of you to say...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: kellyt on February 02, 2008, 09:59:06 PM
I believe Stuart has been touched by an angle.  :angel;  You should be very proud, Boxman.   :thumbup;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: CW on February 03, 2008, 12:11:50 AM
Yes Boxman Kudos :thumbup; It was a small gesture but I think it really made a big difference.

You were caring and concerned in worrying about Stuart's well being and courageous in taking the steps to connect with him.

I feel so strongly about this subject because I know I would like to do things like this but I am afraid I will say something stupid or depress the person more or get cursed out :o. So I just sit quietly at my station staring at my tiny TV. But from now on I will try to bring myself to help if someone needs it from the example you have shown :).
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: rose1999 on February 04, 2008, 12:06:55 AM
Paris is right, you have made a big difference Boxman.

CW I know how you feel but maybe just hello is enough to start things off and make someone feel as if they exist - at least someone has noticed them and spoken. It's the little things inthis life, a smile, a hello that make the difference to someone who is feeling isolated.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: twirl on April 19, 2008, 04:19:52 PM
you get to have a curtain?

how is that man doing or is he gone
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: monrein on April 19, 2008, 04:42:12 PM
I just stumbled on this thread and I wonder about Stuart too?  I was also wondering about some kind of brain damage from the stroke and how bright a person was he before the stroke even?  I've worked with developmentally delayed (politically correct term for mildly retarded) teenagers and their reactions can be very challenging.  Main thing is how kind you've been to him and that is wonderful, even if he never responds quite as we'd like.  Big hug from me to you for that.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on April 20, 2008, 09:43:19 AM
My friend Stuart is doing good. I think they have prescribed some relax pills because now when I arrive he is fast a sleep. He still wants to leave early but they got him sleeping up to 2-1/2 to 3 hours then when he wakes it is time to go. I know this because he wakes me also. He looks better and has lost his terrible cough...Boxman
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: KT0930 on April 20, 2008, 11:25:00 AM
Glad to hear he's doing better. Thanks for keeping us posted, Box!
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: willieandwinnie on April 20, 2008, 11:27:20 AM
Your a wonderful guy boxman.  :clap;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: devon on April 21, 2008, 06:18:14 AM
What's particularly interesting to me about this entire thread is that "Stuart" will never know how many people were involved in his dialysis and how many were concerned for his welfare and the struggle he's had with it!  Very interesting!

It reminds me of how important each of us are, even when we don't feel very important at all! Even when we think we are alone, there may be lots of people thinking of us and worrying about us.

-Devon
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Bajanne on April 21, 2008, 06:35:44 AM
What's particularly interesting to me about this entire thread is that "Stuart" will never know how many people were involved in his dialysis and how many were concerned for his welfare and the struggle he's had with it!  Very interesting!

It reminds me of how important each of us are, even when we don't feel very important at all! Even when we think we are alone, there may be lots of people thinking of us and worrying about us.

-Devon

I agree.  Boxman, I really admire you for your concern for Stuart and your being there for him even through his difficult adjustment.  the news has gotten better and better.  wonderful!
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Claudia30 on April 22, 2008, 12:41:38 PM
Boxman - you are a GOOD man!!!! Good job for trying to help Stuart. When i was on hemo, there were two people who drove me absolutely nuts. One was a young woman - maybe in her early 40's and she would leave all the time early. Her excuse was that she wanted to spend more time with her children, however, she was always in the hospital because she missed treatments. One day our doctor actually yelled at her after her missing a lot of time on the machine. But this woman just didn't care. However the other woman was a mostly blind, totally dependent on everyone. But she YELLED at everyone - from the EMTs who picked her up to the nurses to the doctors helping her. She would scream every five minutes for something and was rude and nasty. I finally got so distraught that i had a very bad anxiety/panic attack. I went to the social worker and told her that something needed to be done as this woman was bothering everyone in the clinic. I was not the only one who complained about her. I felt sorry for her but at the same time i wanted her to stop yelling. I firmly believe you don't yell at the person with the needle in their hand. lol. I believe that the stroke that Stuart had affected him greatly and you said that people don't talk to him because of his impairment. You are doing a good job but maybe if he feels like he can listen and not talk he might feel more comfortable. I'll be honest and say that i read a ton of the posts but didn't get a chance to finish them all. Maybe suggest that he listen to a CD player. Also his brother has no right pushing him into dialysis - it sounds like Stuart is being abused on some level. Even if his brother is his guardian, he can't make Stuart go. The social worker must understand this and take action - Even if that means calling the cops on the brother. Something doesn't sound right and doesn't feel right about that relationship and what is going on. I feel bad for Stuart and will pray for him. I will also pray that you have the strength and patience to deal with this. This is a lot to deal with on top of your own issues. Good luck.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: angela515 on April 22, 2008, 03:02:41 PM
Poor guy... don't want to be there and is now being forced to sleep to go through it.... some people need to respect the fact that not everyone wants to do dialysis, and even the ones who do have a limit and a time when they may not want to anymore.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: JasonEb on April 23, 2008, 02:11:55 AM
I guess I am the only one with a different view on this. I don't know how old this guy is, but whatever his age, he is an adult and can make up his own mind and his brother has no right to force him to go to dialysis if he doesn't wish to. I'm sorry but when it's my time to go back on dialysis and if i'm ready to go... let me go.. I won't stand for anyone forcing me to go on when I do not wish too... and that's his right. Just as people can sign a DNR, he should be able to choose not to be on dialysis and let nature take him. *shrug* I just find it cruel when we try to keep people around that do NOT want to be around anymore.

Whew, reading through this thread I was afraid I was some kind of monster for thinking like this until I saw this response.

If Stuart is in his right mind, I'm sure he understands the consequences of his actions.  He might be ready to go, but may not have the words to tell those around him.  Or feel pressured by his family to stay alive because they are not ready to let him go.  I've seen it dozens of times over the years.

~Jason E.
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: Sluff on April 23, 2008, 03:53:23 AM
 Boxman :bow; Now I know you have made a difference. Kudos to you for hanging in there for the benefit of someone else when others may have given up.  (like me :( )  (According to my previous posts)  Whatever the reason for Stuarts behavior, you made a difference and you never gave up.  :thumbup;
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: okarol on September 18, 2008, 05:00:43 PM


Hey Box, is Stuart still okay?
Title: Re: Should I get involved
Post by: boxman55 on September 18, 2008, 07:06:38 PM
Since I changed my dialysis time to 10 am I don't see much of Stuart. But he is still coming and leaving early. I know this because I got to see him leave when I was done which means his run time was about an hour. I said hi and he was just on a mission to get in his van. He did mumble something but I did not understand it. He looks about the same which means disheveled. I do know also that he has been sleeping when he runs and like when I sat next to him when he wakes he wants to be taken off. So... he is hanging in there...Boxman