I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: SweetyPie on January 15, 2019, 09:46:29 PM

Title: Heparin
Post by: SweetyPie on January 15, 2019, 09:46:29 PM
I will be stopping heparin for 2 week because of my wisdom tootb surgery. Anyone ever tried this? Will the dialysis machine beep every second?
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Simon Dog on January 16, 2019, 06:24:05 AM
I ran without heparin for years, no problems.  But then, I had low platelets.  Try flushing the filter every 30 minutes or so (just add the flush volume to your goal)
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Riki on January 16, 2019, 08:16:51 AM
Try flushing the filter every 30 minutes or so (just add the flush volume to your goal)

That's what the nurses do here when someone needs their heparin stopped (though, technically, we don't even use heparin anymore, we have something called frag that is used instead).  The new machines we have can be programmed to do the flushes, so they just have to add that to the goal.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: SweetyPie on January 17, 2019, 06:05:59 AM
I was supposed to stop heparin on Tuesday but techs forgot. Today I come in and the nurse says the doctor said to slow decrease the heparin don’t stop it because I will clot. I am stressful I do NOT want to bleed excessively after surgery. If I do not form a blood clot it’s more problems for my teeth and I will develop dry socket which I’m terrified of. How long does it take for heparin to leave your body? My surgery is Wednesday:(
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Michael Murphy on January 17, 2019, 06:40:49 AM
I have been told by my nephrologist and cardiologist that for all intents after 4 hours the effects of heparin are gone in 4 hours.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: rcjordan on January 17, 2019, 07:06:28 AM
>4 hours

I'm on 5 ml per session. I was told the same but they change their tune when the needle sites still bleed after 16 hours.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Simon Dog on January 17, 2019, 07:32:21 AM
Heparin dosage is expressed in units, not ML, as there are multiple concentrations available.    Any sane dialysis clinic will only have one concentration as the difference in concentration can be a factor of ten.

As to "you will clot" - ask the neph if (s)he is referring to clotting in the dialysis filter, your body, or both.

Heparin does have a short half life, which is why nocturnal dialysis patients are offered delivered heparin via an infusion pump rather than a single bolus at the start of treatment
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Cowdog on January 17, 2019, 07:57:04 AM
I'm on a 4 unit bolus and 2 units per hour maintenance. As mentioned the half life is about 4 hours. If I don't get Heparin my machine will clot up to the point of not running in a about 2 hours.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Simon Dog on January 17, 2019, 08:16:03 AM
I'm on a 4 unit bolus and 2 units per hour maintenance.
I doubt that  8)   A typical bolus would be 4000 units, not 4.  At a 1000 unit/cc concentration heparin, it would be a 4cc dose, not a 4 unit dose.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: rcjordan on January 17, 2019, 09:42:11 AM
I'm on the 1000 usp units per ml concentration. My HHD clinic set me up on a 5 ml dose administered through the permcath at the beginning of the 2.5 hr session. That seems to work ok for me.

HALF life makes much more sense than what we're initially told about "fast dissipating" or "gone in 4 hours."  Other factors may be involved, of course, but since ESRD I've gone from super-fast clotter to easy-bleeder.   Clinic says they'll likely cut my heparin dose by half once I'm able to use the fistula.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: GA_DAWG on January 17, 2019, 04:08:15 PM
I had oral surgery where they removed most of my teeth and only went without heparin for the session immediately following the surgery. They have always told me the machine takes out the heparin by the end of that session. If they do decide to take you off of it for a period, they should rinse you every 30 minutes, as noted, and then they will add the amount of rinse to your goal.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: SweetyPie on January 17, 2019, 04:39:22 PM
I feel a bit relieved that heparin doesnt stay in the body for long. Flushing every 30 min sounds a lot
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Michael Murphy on January 17, 2019, 09:46:33 PM
After twice suffering large hemorrhage in my eyes I have been  taking off heparin both bleeds occurred during dialysis, since then mostly they rely on the warfarin, placid, aspirin I take daily to avoid clotting.  I clotted two treatments ago and it was the first time in a year.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Cowdog on January 18, 2019, 06:34:15 AM
I'm on a 4 unit bolus and 2 units per hour maintenance. As mentioned the half life is about 4 hours. If I don't get Heparin my machine will clot up to the point of not running in a about 2 hours.
You are correct it's 4000  units bolus and 2000 units/hr maintenance!
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Alexysis on January 19, 2019, 11:49:03 AM
I went without Heparin for an entire month, but on the 4th week the dialyzer clotted twice, so I went back on a reduced heparin schedule.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Riki on January 19, 2019, 01:52:08 PM
After twice suffering large hemorrhage in my eyes I have been  taking off heparin both bleeds occurred during dialysis, since then mostly they rely on the warfarin, placid, aspirin I take daily to avoid clotting.  I clotted two treatments ago and it was the first time in a year.

A fellow in my unit had that happen.  He lost sight in one of his eyes afterwards.  He had to have some kind of surgery to save the sight in his other eye.  I don't remember all the details, though he did explain it to me. *G*  He is on warfarin and they check his level (INR?) twice a week and adjust accordingly.  Since we don't use heparin in our unit anymore, I'm not sure what he does.  He's moved to a different shift, so I haven't talked to him in a bit.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: GA_DAWG on January 20, 2019, 09:52:23 AM
The worst I had happen was when we were shifting from my catheter to my graft. They still changed the dressing, and I assume put heparin into it to prevent it from clotting, but I was also getting it through the graft. At any rate, I got way too much and it wiped out completely the clotting agent in my blood. After a couple of hours of it not clotting, I was taken to the ER, and blood tests showed the reason. Every place on my body that had even a small cut or scratch was bleeding. The vascular/ transplant surgeon at the hospital was not amused though he said it was not the first time. They gave me an IV that contained the required clotting agent, though the nurse had to sitt right by the bed and told me if anything felt strange let her know immediately, because any reaction would be deadly very quickly. Luckily nothing happened and a couple hours later, I got to go home.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: SweetyPie on January 20, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
I had just gotten and new cath after an infection. After I recived dialysis the site kept bleeding and wouldn't clot! It was tough to clean plus it was painful because it was brand new. They put a whole lot of gauze on it and a dew hours later you can still see blood seeping through. Thinking about this makes my legs weak! So im sure you can understand why I am freaking out about this whole situation.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Simon Dog on January 20, 2019, 03:49:55 PM
Quote
A fellow in my unit had that happen.  He lost sight in one of his eyes afterward.
I have some ultra small retinal bleeds.  The local, as well as the hotshot retina guy in Boston, says no medical intervention needed.   That motivated me to try D without heparin (it worked!).
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: GA_DAWG on January 20, 2019, 07:09:56 PM
It works, but is a lot more work for the techs, and the added water from rinsing has to be added to your total each time.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: cassandra on January 21, 2019, 03:19:35 AM
It works, but is a lot more work for the techs, and the added water from rinsing has to be added to your total each time.


But it's okay to add the extra liquid to the UF per hour rate. So time doesn't need to be increased  :secret;
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: Simon Dog on January 21, 2019, 06:43:22 AM
Added "each time" does not mean "added time".  8)
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: SweetyPie on January 22, 2019, 05:12:59 AM
One concern and I’m freaking out,
I just remember pain meds get washed out during dialysis. I am getting surgery tomorrow! What will I do during dialysis? Sit there on agony? This is awful
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: cassandra on January 22, 2019, 06:42:02 AM
One concern and I’m freaking out,
I just remember pain meds get washed out during dialysis. I am getting surgery tomorrow! What will I do during dialysis? Sit there on agony? This is awful


Take whichever pain meds the dentist gives you with you. Take it during D when you start to feel any pain.


Good luck tomorrow, Cas
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: GA_DAWG on January 22, 2019, 09:38:31 AM
I was lucky and did not need pain meds after surgery, so I can't answer that one. They don't add time, just fluid, that they then up the goal to remove. Hope everything goes well for you.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: SweetyPie on January 22, 2019, 10:14:50 AM
I asked my doctor about the pain meds he said they don’t really get washed out completely. I was thinking about skipping treatment.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: rcjordan on March 14, 2019, 12:50:37 PM
<update on the heparin>

>Clinic says they'll likely cut my heparin dose by half once I'm able to use the fistula

I've started using the fistula and went straight to sharps instead of buttonholes. But I was having problems with the sites bleeding slightly even after waiting 16-18 hours before removing the dressings.  So the neph dropped heparin completely and put me on 81mg of aspirin 3 times a week.  That almost worked, except I began having a couple of clots form in the tubing of the NxStage cartridge every session. They never dislodged or caused a problem but they could, so the rx now is to add back 1 unit of heparin and see if that eliminates them.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: iolaire on March 14, 2019, 01:01:08 PM
<update on the heparin>

>Clinic says they'll likely cut my heparin dose by half once I'm able to use the fistula

I've started using the fistula and went straight to sharps instead of buttonholes. But I was having problems with the sites bleeding slightly even after waiting 16-18 hours before removing the dressings.  So the neph dropped heparin completely and put me on 81mg of aspirin 3 times a week.  That almost worked, except I began having a couple of clots form in the tubing of the NxStage cartridge every session. They never dislodged or caused a problem but they could, so the rx now is to add back 1 unit of heparin and see if that eliminates them.


I found that if I left the bandages on overnight any scab would pull off the next morning leaving very light spotting afterwards (not strong bleeding but still worrisome).  Because of that I always exchanged the bandages for a tight Band-Aid before going to bed, about 3-4 hours after treatment.  I bought my own McKesson Bandage Adhesive Fabric Strip "Band-Aids" from amazon for this as they have nice flex and could be applied tight, don't come off with sweat, clotted nicely and overall seemed good.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: PrimeTimer on March 14, 2019, 08:28:59 PM
My husband use to do home-hemo with NXStage too and buttonholes. He now goes in-center but still using buttonholes. He holds the sites for about 5 minutes and then they tape him up and he's good to go. He removes the gauze about an hour later. No bleeding. He learned the hard way about scabs sticking to the gauze if left on too long. That was an ugly stain on the carpet...Always uses Heparin at the start of treatment. He also takes low-dose Aspirin every day (diabetic with high blood pressure).
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: GA_DAWG on March 16, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
Even with heparin, twice recently I have had lines clot. That's a pain because it adds about twenty minutes more time to get the line replaced and everything going again.
Title: Re: Heparin
Post by: rcjordan on March 16, 2019, 01:56:36 PM
We added back the 1 unit of heparin but still had some clotting in the pressure pod. Last night it caused trouble but a 100ml bolus got us through the remaining 45 minutes of the session.  Clinic said to try a bolus once every hour.