I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael Murphy on November 14, 2018, 05:10:48 AM
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Today I find my self in the hospital due to a banana and chocolate binge. On vacation I pushed my potassium above 7 and caused my ICD to mis read my heart rate and go off 3 times. Imagine a very large fellow jumping up and down on your chest. Probably the most terrorized I have ever been. Hammers home hoe important proper diet is. Will be here several days till my potassium is down where it belongs.
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Wishing you a safe recovery. Is there a treatment or are you under observation only?
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Get better soon Michael Murphy,
:cheer: :cuddle;
Love, luck and strength, Cas
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Bunch of potassium binders, glucose and insulin and a long Dialysys session today and tomorrow. Worst thing is it’s my fault. Strange thing is I feel great. I think that from now on when I see hi potassium food I will feel that damned ICD.
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Recover well.
Yes that potassium could creep up. binders binders binders..... Potassium of 7 is very serious....... When inmates get lethal execution it is a high dose of potassium and other drugs that does em in.
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Hello Michael,
I send you my get-well-soon-wishes for a quick recovery from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Speedy recovery, Michael. I was recently in tne hospital for atrial flutter and it turns out my potassium was at 7.7!! I could have died. But it wasn't from eating, it was from taking prednisone for a presumed asthma attack. The pred. spiked my potassium (I'm diabetic) and the blood sugar spiked causing my potassium to rise.
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I did that once - with a really good banana cake made by my SIL for my birthday. Still tease her that she tried to kill me! (Okay, it was my fault... I had cake on my birthday and then several days after ate it for breakfast!)
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Get well soon Michael! At least you lived to tell the tale.
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Daughter makes THE Best Banana Bread. I'm smart enough NOT to eat it.
Wife was in the hospital again for a couple of weeks. There is a Fudge Factory not to far and right on my way. I've made the mistake of stopping, threee times. One time I only bought a pound of their chocolate covered malted balss. Y'up, ate them all.
Other two times I bought 6 blocks of fudge. That first box I snacked just a little and took it into the Nurses and Techs at my Clinic. They Loved it.
That second box is still in my kitchen. Half gone.
I will make it last a while even though it is soo tempting to pig on.
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Binders, Binders, Binders are for Phosphorous! Potassium is regulated by diet and dialysis and in an emergency Kxolate (which is horrible stuff)
Get well.
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While you need to remember the episode, Michael, do not beat yourself up too badly. It is a hard thing to maintain a renal diet and occassional lapses are going to happen. Sorry yours was quite so severe.
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Binders, Binders, Binders are for Phosphorous! Potassium is regulated by diet and dialysis and in an emergency Kxolate (which is horrible stuff)
Get well.
Potassium is also regulated by the choice of bicarb bath used in dialysis (generally 2K or 3K, but 1K or 0K can be used to reduce high potassium).
I had one D treatment with no fluid removal after transplant to lower a high potassium. Probably better than Kayexelate.
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There is a binder for potassium kaexalate( have no idea how to spell){Kayexalate according to google. It’s perscribed for hypekalcima or too much potassium. First time I got a powder that was mixed in water this time it was a liquid that was absolutely vile. The binders were aided by a shot of glucose and a shot of insulin to help bind the potassium. This was not a minor problem for me it was creating malformed t waves that thr defibulator I have in my chest mistakenly counted the T waves as beats so it doubled the heart beat count so a heart rate of 90 looked like 180 which is the trigger point for my defibulator after the potassium binders my potassium dropped to 4.5 and my T waves returned to normal. Now I find being taken to the emergency room for banana ingestion hilarious I also think the info is important for other patients with ICD’S (Internal Cardiac Defibulator).
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Don't fret, you aren't the only one who's made that mistake. I was frustrated with my constant high phos levels, so decided all of a sudden to try to go vegetarian. Brilliant! One day I felt so bad I thought I was having a heart attack and checked myself into the ER. Turns out I had brought my phos down, but my potassium jumped. Not too too high, only in the 6's, but I felt so awful. The Dr ordered lots of kayexalate that day and I was discharged as soon as the potassium looked to be decreasing.
Take care, hope you recover quickly!
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Kayexulate is the most vile, disgusting concoction, but it does work well as a potassium binder. As a kid on dialysis, it was something regularly given. We had ensure or boost with it mixed in, something we called "formula" and I absolutely hated it. I was lucky enough that I only had to have it when I was in hospital, because my appetite at home was much better.
I did have a blunder like yours a few years ago. I had a craving for pink lemonade, and drank several litres of it. Besides the problems that the fluid could cause, I never thought that lemons are a citrus fruit and are chock full of potassium. I won a cup of Kayexualte for that mistake too.
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Actually the final punishment for my sins occurred when I was released, I told everyone I needed to be released by noon. I was afraid of the coming snowstorm. At 2:30 when I was released the snow was so bad my wife was afraid to drive the 30 miles to come and get me. No problem I’ll call a taxi. The roads were so bad no taxi, so I asked for a taxi to the train station it never showed up, that turned out to be a good thing the train line was closed due to someone trying to beat a train at a crossing, they lost. So I spent the night in the hospital lobby at least I got a comfortable chair.
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Leave it to a Liberal to overindulge in things he shouldn't..... :sarcasm; Geez, Michael, hope you are feeling better. You can always convert and become a conservative Republican if you want. You'll have to learn to skip the banana and chocolate tho. :rofl;
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I would require a complete removal of my brain to become a conservative, I face my mistakes and own them, Conservatives do things like try to pass legislation that raises the insurance premiums for those over 55 five times and end preexisting coverage. Then instead of owning it denied they tried. Intellectual honesty the mark of a liberal. Funny thing is I never felt bad just the feeling my chest exploded 3 times.
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Glad you are okay now, Michael. Complaining about Republicans is a sure sign that you are feeling better.
Take care and have a Happy Thanksgiving. Just please stay away from the bananas and chocolate. Go crazy on food that isn't so lethal.
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Just had dinner and as I sat down right in front of me was a bunch of perfect bananas. I felt like holding a cross up to protect me. But then I remembered the shock and they did not look so good.
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Just had dinner and as I sat down right in front of me was a bunch of perfect bananas. I felt like holding a cross up to protect me. But then I remembered the shock and they did not look so good.
:puke; :laugh: Yep Peanuts, bananas, potatoes, chocolate - these will do you in every time if not eaten in light moderation.......
Only dream of the food groups for now. :laugh:
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Now there are two basic food groups. Those you can have is one and the other is those that taste good.
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I love that my potassium level is normal. If I had to give up potatoes, I'd starve. *LOL*
I find it easy, as most of what we're not supposed to eat, I don't like anyway. The renal diet is confusing, and it's different for everybody. I'm lucky that I can have some of the more high potassium foods, most can't. Some need a high protein diet, some need a low protein diet. Some have low phosphorus and need to take nasty tasting supplements (I did as a teenager), and some need to live on binders. Then, if you need to tack on the diabetic diet as well.. it's all quite confusing at times. All I can say is, good luck.
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When in the hospital what gets confusing is being on a renal and cardiac diet. No white bread on cardiac, no dark breads on renal. No fat cardiac, high protein renal. Only iceberg lettuce cardiac, the lists are endless. What I comes down to for me is bananas bad.
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:laugh: You like your bananas too much. You need to run away from those things...... :laugh: :laugh: :bandance; Restricted hospital menus are easy. Just think of all the foods you like then say but I cannot have that. Raw carrots!!
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Then, if you need to tack on the diabetic diet as well..
Oh yes, this, for sure. In my HD days, I swore I consumed cardboard for subsistence. Thankfully (not sure if this is the right word...) my potassium was constantly low so I had a high potassium bath and allowed to eat higher potassium foods 2 to 3 times per week. Luckily, I didn't require binders as my phosphorus was low-ish too. In those days, I distinctly remember eating yogurt like it was going out of style. I was so stuck on what to eat.
And then, one of my nephrologists asked if I ate white or brown bread. So, I said white bread, because of the potassium, you know. He replied that brown was better for glucose. So, my head spun. I avoided any diabetic dieticians like the plague because anything they suggested conflicted with the kidney diet. So, gourmet cardboard it was!
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How many chocolate-covered bananas will land you in the hospital? I'm still pre-dialysis, but the diet is a killer. I indulge my cravings for meat loaf, pot roast, and linguini with clams about once every seven to ten days. And sometimes I'll wash it down with a glass of sangria.
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How many chocolate-covered bananas will land you in the hospital? I'm still pre-dialysis, but the diet is a killer. I indulge my cravings for meat loaf, pot roast, and linguini with clams about once every seven to ten days. And sometimes I'll wash it down with a glass of sangria.
Depends on what method of the "D" word you are going for. Hemo is more diet sensitive. PD is more forgiving..... You still have to watch no matter. You should be able to sneak by with the clams but take the binder to mind the phosphorous. Also depends on how much kidney function you still have after start the "D" word.... There are a lot of variables here. Each person is different....
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Don't know why meatloaf or pot roast would be bad for you, although it seems shellfish is definitely on the no-no list.
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I went vegetarian about two months ago. I'm hoping that a meatless diet, recommended by my nephrologist, will slow the decline of my GFR. Katrina, one of the regulars on this site, has attributed the remarkable longevity of her diseased kidneys to a strict vegetarian diet.
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I went vegetarian about two months ago. I'm hoping that a meatless diet, recommended by my nephrologist, will slow the decline of my GFR. Katrina, one of the regulars on this site, has attributed the remarkable longevity of her diseased kidneys to a strict vegetarian diet.
Make sure your dietician is aware. I think if I decided to go vegetarian, my dietician would lose it. She always told me that if it runs, swims, or flies, I should eat it because I need the protein. Personally, I don't think I could handle a vegetarian diet, though I have no problem with beyond meat products
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Yeah, Riki, you're on HD and I'm still pre-dialysis. Different protein requirements. My limit is about 40 g per day.
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Yeah, Riki, you're on HD and I'm still pre-dialysis. Different protein requirements. My limit is about 40 g per day.
No way in :bandance; am I going to start counting grams of food content ....... I just wing it and keep tabs on my blood results. When I have to start measuring grams of food intake that is when it is time to hang up the hoses for good. 8)
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I went vegetarian about two months ago. I'm hoping that a meatless diet, recommended by my nephrologist, will slow the decline of my GFR. Katrina, one of the regulars on this site, has attributed the remarkable longevity of her diseased kidneys to a strict vegetarian diet.
Make sure your dietician is aware. I think if I decided to go vegetarian, my dietician would lose it. She always told me that if it runs, swims, or flies, I should eat it because I need the protein. Personally, I don't think I could handle a vegetarian diet, though I have no problem with beyond meat products
I was a vegetarian for years and including the years on HD. I managed to prolong my pre-dialysis days for years. It spanned from dealing with paediatric nephrologists to adulthood. When I hit Stage 3, I had to begin watching my potassium, as that is key with vegetarian diets, but I never had any problems. While on HD, my protein and iron stores were always alright. A part of this is because I relied a lot on phosphorus rich products and not everyone has such a luxury.
Transplant has been another story. The tx nutritionist set some really high levels for protein and calcium. I mean, it was understandable since it was a double organ tx (higher healing requirements) and prednisone’s side-effects. So, in order to hit that level, I had to include lean meats. I settled on chicken and turkey although I still hate the taste of the stuff. Still struggling with hemoglobin levels post-tx although I mainly eat a vegetarian diet most of the time.
Beyond Meat products are awesome though higher choices in regards to sodium and potassium. I head down to the USA to pick up some of the product line to stock the freezer. And Thank God that our closest A&W is on the other side of town so the Beyond Meat burgers are a rare thing... otherwise I fear they’d need a crane to get me on the scales.
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And Thank God that our closest A&W is on the other side of town so the Beyond Meat burgers are a rare thing... otherwise I fear they’d need a crane to get me on the scales.
A&W are still around????? We use to have those stores wonder if it is the same old A&W...
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What about an occasional beer on pre-dialysis? Could I take a Tums or something as a phosphate binder?
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A&W are still around! However, it is my understanding that the Canadian version of the chain has been operating separately since the early 70s.
Enginist, as for beer on pre-dialysis, "generally" patients are allowed the occasional beer. It all depends on where your phosphorus levels stand before you have a cold one. But generally, it is o.k. I drank beer from time to time, with the blessing of my dietician, so you should be alright. You should ask your dietician in regard to whether you should take a binder or not as they'd have your numbers and know how much you take.
Just beware, you'll hear the broken record warning that beer is empty calories that could be applied to "more nutritious choices" and that any alcoholic drinks are to be included in your fluid restrictions. No duh, really, dietician overlords? ;D
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One beer is kind of like one potato chip. What's the point?
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One beer is kind of like one potato chip. What's the point?
Yes but you cannot just have one :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Yeah, Riki, you're on HD and I'm still pre-dialysis. Different protein requirements. My limit is about 40 g per day.
No way in :bandance; am I going to start counting grams of food content ....... I just wing it and keep tabs on my blood results. When I have to start measuring grams of food intake that is when it is time to hang up the hoses for good. 8)
That's pretty much what I do. If a level is too high or too low in the blood work, I try to think back to what I was doing to screw it up. Blood work after Christmas, Easter, and Halloween are always out of whack, and after a vacation, cuz I'm gonna have fun on vacation. As long as it's not gonna kill me, I'll do it. *G*
UkranianTracksuit, have you tried the beyond meat burgers at A&W? Mom and I have been wanting to try them, but we haven't had the chance yet. A&W is one of the few fast feed restaurants that we like to go in and sit down at, instead of just going through the drive through and going home. There's also a new vegan restaurant a few blcoks down from where I live that I've heard nothing but good things about
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UkranianTracksuit, have you tried the beyond meat burgers at A&W? Mom and I have been wanting to try them, but we haven't had the chance yet. A&W is one of the few fast feed restaurants that we like to go in and sit down at, instead of just going through the drive through and going home. There's also a new vegan restaurant a few blcoks down from where I live that I've heard nothing but good things about
Yes! I’ve had the Beyond Meat burgers at A&W and they are delicious! I mean, not exactly like a beef burger but the closest you’ll get. They became an addiction over the summer especially when they were on the cover of the A&W coupon book! My neighbors donated their Beyond Burger coupons to me! I don’t have mine “exactly vegan” as I get mayo and cheese.
I used to get a veggie burger from Harvey’s for dinner or lunch after a dialysis session but A&W is much better!
It’s my opinion that it’s best to eat the Beyond Burgers sitting down in the restaurant rather than drive-thru/take home. It hadn’t happened to me but people complained it was soggy when they got home. It’s understandable since it’s a grain/veggie pattie. So, I hope you and your mom get a chance to sit down in there for lunch or dinner soon!
I’m trying to talk my guy into taking me for one after some appointments at the hospital. But as he says, it’s too busy at lunch... so no stop!
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We go to A&W mostly for the root beer, and we go in and sit down to get the frosted glasses. They won't give you those through the drive through.. *LOL*
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Okay, I'll admit it: sometimes I'll have two beers. How much sodium and potassium are in a Beyond Meat burger?
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I love the frosted glasses in the summer! I rub them all over me :rofl; like a low grade (verrrrrrrrry low grade) Cindy Crawford Pepsi commercial.
Enginist, it has 1110mg of sodium (got that from the A&W website). As for potassium, it is not listed so when I bought them at the supermarket, I had to do some investigation. The ingredients list the bad stuff of potassium chloride and potassium bicarbonate. Then I noticed it says 341 mg per patty of potassium.
Not a very good renal choice but that is the case with a lot of "faux meat" products. But hey, enjoy those coupla beers! ;D
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Yeah, that's a lot of potassium. But it's not hard to count grams of protein. We're all inveterate label readers by now.
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I'm half confused. Are we talking about a burger from the A&W Root Beer chain or a market named A&W?
Knowing those amounts of potassium I would probably NOT eat it as I try to stay very far away from much potassium and phosphorus.
I eat mostly very lean meats on my off days. A zip lock bag of dry cereal during treatments. My one large cup of coffee with adulterants and a heaping spoon of protein powder and a blueberry muffin EVERY day. I am fortunate that my labs remain so well near the bottom of the scales.
I do take binders, a lot. And there are times when I will have a bute of most anything else, just a bite, not even a whole serving. I figure that all things in moderation applies. A monthly stop at Taco Bell for three hard shell deluxe, I sometimes remember to have them leave off the tomatoes, but then again, I sometimes forget. I also add about 4 packets of HOT sauce to each taco. Since this is a rare meal I don't worry about it.
Sp mod Cas
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I'm half confused. Are we talking about a burger from the A&W Root Beer chain or a market named A&W?
Knowing those amounts of potassium I would probably NOT eat it as I try to stay very far away from much potassium and phosphorus.
Sorry Charlie! It's a meatless burger from the A&W burger joint. But Beyond Meat products (the company that makes the burger patties) are available in regular grocery shops. And I agree: unless someone on D is given a little leeway in their diet, knows their numbers and what they could include, I would avoid the burger.
But after getting a good report from Infectious Disease, my husband took me for one of the burgers (as he discussed) and I scoffed it down in like a minute. Then he took me shopping. "Shopping is my cardio" is true as I burned off half the burger by the end! :cheer:
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Still say there are vegetable patties, but no such thing as a vegetable burger. Burger means meat. The one good thing about dialysis is it gives me ample reason to avoid things like veggie patties and whole grain bread.
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Did any of you experience swollen feet, ankles and legs and/or A-Fib with your heart troubles? Do water pills like Lasix or Furosomide help?
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I suffered from a fib after my heart attack 2 years ago, this has lead my nephrologist to lecture me about low blood pressure. His lecture was that with my damaged heart low blood pressure during dialysis could cause a-fib. Periodically my BP drops during Dialysys if that happens all fluid removal must stop. The one precaution I have taken is I bought a Apple Watch 4 which has a ecg function that will alarm if it detects a a-fib rhythm. Blood pressure drops and a start watching my watch to make sure I am not in a-fib. Hope this helps. The watch was 600 dollars but the peace of mind it gives me is well worth it.
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Hello Michael,
I am so sorry for your added medical problem you have to deal with and many thanks for this helpful idea, it is so good to know of the existence of this Apple Watch 4 and I am sure the money is worth every penny of it.
Thanks again for letting us know about the Apple Watch 4 from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Did any of you experience swollen feet, ankles and legs and/or A-Fib with your heart troubles? Do water pills like Lasix or Furosomide help?
I can't speak for myself but my father had swollen feet/ankles/legs and he has heart trouble. (He had major surgery almost 3 years ago.) He takes Lasix and so far, no issues with swelling again.
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Prior to Dialysis I had massive leg swelling and daily leakage often resulting in infections of my legs. Because my kidney were still producing Dr's had me taking 120 MG Lacix daily along with Metalazone to further stimulate urine production. PD quickly removed all that water in my legs and my residual function stayed well until I was forced to make the switch to Hemo because of a PD Infection.
I suspect my dry weight on Hemo to have been a bit too low, enough so that the repeated 'shock' to my kidneys have knocked out most all of that residual function. I hardly produce much at all even on Sundays prior to my Monday morning treatment.
We finally stopped all the water pills as they really were no longer doing anything.
I don't have any problems skipping the high phos and high potassium foods, with the exception of an occasional chocolate binge.
I occasionally have to stop by my Accountants office. She keeps a bowl of treats on the counter The temptation is too great. Her receptionist buys Reisens Chocolate covered Fudges. I stick 5 or six in my jacket. I went to Wal Greens looking for them. Didn't find them but found bags of Herseys in the same smallo black shapes. I shouldn't have but did, buy two bags. I should be glad that they are all gone. But I'm not. I did pass a number of them out to all the Nurses and Attendant Ladies at Wife's Nursing Home. So that I would eat them ALL. But I did have plenty.
I am going to have to find a Target store, see if that is where these Reisens are stocked and sold. Herseys melt too quickly so I tend to have more of them in a day. The Resiens are so heavy they last much much longer if I only suck on them and do not bite into them at all.
It take a certain amount of will-power. But when it comes to Chocolate, I admit, I don't have much.
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suspect my dry weight on Hemo to have been a bit too low, enough so that the repeated 'shock' to my kidneys have knocked out most all of that residual function. I hardly produce much at all even on Sundays prior to my Monday morning treatment.
My neph told me I could expect to lose all residual function about 6 months after starting HD. He was right.
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went to see my cardiologist last week and told her I sometimes feel heart racing. Her suggestion was to buy a new Apple Watch! they also have a fall alarm function so if you fall down and don't check in with the watch, it notifies someone-not sure who/what. I am thinking about it-hate to spend the $$
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In regards to swelling and water pills, thank you very much for the responses, everyone.
Another question: Anyone swell up after taking Prednisone? If so, do water pills (Furosemide or Lasix) help with that?
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Sorry to hear you are in the hospital. Get well soon Enjoy the kind people. Take it easy ty
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Another question: Anyone swell up after taking Prednisone? If so, do water pills (Furosemide or Lasix) help with that?
By swell up, you mean fluid retention, right? Just checking because prednisone causes weight gain and bloating too.
I took a whopping dose of Lasix for renal issues but needed a short run of prednisone for a bowel problem. (This is before prednisone for transplant.)
Technically, the two can be used together. The issue is that prednisone prevents Lasix from functioning at full strength in regard to getting rid of fluid. I think it depends if the prednisone is a continuous dose or a short one? In my case, it was a short one, so I took my regular Lasix as normal after, and that got rid of fluid retention.
On the other hand, a study showed that the addition of prednisone, along with other diuretics, caused increased urination, and consequently reduced fluid retention, in heart patients.
It’s up for a doctor to figure out the correct dosing for the best outcome! :) But, it can be done.
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Sorry to hear you are in the hospital. Get well soon Enjoy the kind people. Take it easy ty
I hope there's been no confusion. I'm not in the hospital. This thread was started back in November by Michael Murphy when HE was in the hospital. BTW, thank you Michael for answering my questions about swelling and water pills.
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Thanks for responding, UT. I'm talking about 20mg Prednisone for 30 days for asthma (bronchial inflammation brought on by pollens). I've used Prednisone many many times before and of course, have experienced the bloating and moon face but never any ankle/feet/leg swelling. It started upon completing this last round. Quite uncomfortable and actually a little painful. Gets any worse I know I have to see the doctor. I am thinking I am paying the price for laying around doing nothing for too long while under the weather. The body is not meant to be bed ridden. I should know better but I was sooo sleepy! But I did have to wonder if the Prednisone was being more evil than usual. 20mg makes you want to scream.
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Prednisone for asthma: totally know what you’re talking about. My mom has asthma and when it gets bad, like you, she gets prescribed a round of prednisone.
Like you, it is usually 20 to 25 mg. I avoid her then because she used to do laundry at 3 in the morning and everything set her off.
So, yes, the solution was Lasix, also, a short term dose. And yes, to walk around. If it gets unbearable, your doc or pulmonologist know what to do! If the swelling/bloat wasn’t too bad, the edema would gradually go away on its own, in most cases. But there are always the other times where it was more sluggish.
You have my sympathy over the pain from swelling. Prior to dialysis, my legs got so swollen, they felt like they would split and bedsheets bothered them.
Hope that you feel better, and breathe better, soon. :)
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My last round of prednisone and Asthma landed me in the ER with potassium toxicity and extreme Atial flutter. I was at the end of a 7-day taper course of pred and my heart went nuts. Turns out (because I'm diabetic) the prednisone spiked my blood sugar and that pulled potassium out of cells and rose the K level to 7.7!!! I've never had a high potassium otherwise. Prednisone is a POWERFUL drug!!!