I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: BigDadii on January 08, 2017, 01:57:59 PM
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I know that I have been asking for info on fluid restriction methods.
Here's another question
Does our body in jest or handle juice and or milk differently than water based fluids?
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Hi Bigdadii if you mean with 'our body', our bodies needing dialysis than I think our bodies handle any fluids the same, we retain them. I think that some foods like ginger or pepper make us maybe sweat more, so we loose some of those retained fluids through that.
That's just my opinion though, I haven't researched it.
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According to this article, our bodies process milk differently than water. Read the part about digestion. I do know that my husband must count juice or milk towards his daily fluid intake. They say that anything that can be made or melted into liquid must be counted. One way he controls his fluid intake is by sucking on ice cubes instead of drinking a glass of water.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/529677-how-does-the-body-digest-milk/
Uh oh...this thread seems to be in the wrong place. Perhaps we ought to not post anymore to it until it is moved ??
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I know that I have been asking for info on fluid restriction methods.
Here's another question
Does our body in jest or handle juice and or milk differently than water based fluids?
This is a most interesting question as it also involves the water in which our daily food is being cooked ... and of which some of the water remains in the food ...
... I have often wondered whether or not there is really any precise answer to it ?
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Uh oh...this thread seems to be in the wrong place. Perhaps we ought to not post anymore to it until it is moved ??
Thanx PT, I'll move it to 'general D' for now ;D
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Ever use a 'juicer'? Fruits, vegetables, run through a juicer separating the heavier 'pulp', or fiber, from the liquid. An impressive example of the hidden fluids in our diet.
Much the same can be said for meats. Our body is something like 90% water. Pretty much the same for a cow, pig, chicken. Maybe slightly more for fish. The circulating blood volume is really a small part of over-all weight. But that has already been removed from those packaged meats brought home from the store. Depending on how you cook it another small percentage is lost, End result, at least 50% of the cook weight of most meats are water.
Between the meat, vegetables, and desert, we take in a lot of water. Thus many are 'fluid restricted' to one liter, or less.
Minus what very small amount we breath out and alittle bit of sweat, it all has to be pulled off by Dialysis.
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Minus what very small amount we breath out and alittle bit of sweat, it all has to be pulled off by Dialysis.
Or crying, or vomiting or diarrhea 😅
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Thus many are 'fluid restricted' to one liter, or less.
When I started with dialysis a nurse made absolutely sure that I really understood
that my best "survival-kit" would be to really adhere precisely to my fluid-restrictions
because otherwise life could become very hard for my body to deal with kidney-failure and dialysis ...
Best wishes from Kristina. :grouphug;
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theres one sure fire way of limiting the amount of flhid we consume.....its fairly drastic tho......stop drinking n eating altogether
I find it a lot easier to put up with dialysis , the nurses n the 4.5 hrs sessions than adhering to a 1 lt limit per day fluid restriction.
I've heard one patient scream out" I want to LIVE I sick of surviving" n really i agree with him
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@Kristina I've also wondered about eating soup like Ramen noodles or chillie (during the winter I like eating soup)
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I had a bowl of Ramen yesterday. I added an egg stirred in then cooked another couple of minutes to increase my protein.
Instead of having a mouthful of water for a drink later in the day I settled for an ice cube.
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I eat ramen some times. But I don't put seasoning because of very high sodium.
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Minus what very small amount we breath out and alittle bit of sweat, it all has to be pulled off by Dialysis.
You're forgetting that shit is wet. In fact, diarrhea can be a source of dehydration in normal people.
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I eat ramen some times. But I don't put seasoning because of very high sodium.
I saw this "content" on Facebook recently:
http://www.simpleorganiclife.org/this-is-what-happens-in-your-stomach-when-you-eat-packaged-ramen-noodl-1796296240.html
not only is it very high in sodium but it says you don't digest the ramen quickly so all the nasty chemicals leach into your body. Don't know how legitimate the content is, but the sodium content is factual. Also didn't watch the video.
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Th3e sodium is absorbed quickly. I rarely have Ramen, and that instance was immediately after Hemo, so I was as 'dry' as I could get. Most times when I come out at that low weight I get leg cramps that night in bed. Not after a bowl of Ramen.
The digestive slowness? I don't think so. As with most all pasta the hydration level is important. Noodles not 'fully' hydrated will cause a thirstyness as they will absorb even more moisture in the stomach and intestines before beginning to decompose. The matter cannot come apart until fully saturated. This may be a reason some claim it slow to digest. I haven't had that problem. I cook it until ALL the water is absorbed and the noodle is fully swollen. I rarely have a thirst afterwards.
I will find out again tomorrow when I step on the scale at Clinic just before I set my Happy A$$ into that chair just how badly I've gone over my fluid limit. I think I'm still good. (Fingers Crossed).
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I eat ramen noodles and have never had a problem with them.. my labs show that I don't have to completely adhere to the diet.. I can cheat here and there and it's not going to affect me... I also keep several packets of the flavoring in my dialysis bag, for the days that my bp drops.. put the flavoring in a cup of hot water and drink it.. brings the bp back up very well
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I suspect the added salts in the flavoring speed the water absorption into the circulating blood system, helping even out your low blood pressure. The circulating blood has to be very carefully balanced water/salt/sugar or the elements cannot pass across the intestinal barrier.
Isn't it wonderful how some of us have managed to figure out these simple and easy methods of helping or body to withstand the rigors of dialysis?
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No doubt the fluid counts in your daily limit (whether milk / juice) and cannot be an add-on to the water you already drink per day.
The only way our body would treat them differently is primarily based on what you consume at what time of the day.
Milk (full cream or otherwise) is heavier and takes a lot longer to digest and fruit juices may be something you might want to restrict and consult a dietician before adding it to your daily routine.
I am given to understand that juices are a more concentrated form of the fruit and have a higher potassium content and if it not fresh juice out of a fruit then you also have to worry about preservatives and other harmful additives.
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All of that sounds good but not only am I eat Ramen I also have a big pot of chicken noodle soup. I only ate the noodles and chicken and the soup was so thick I don't think I took in that much fluid.
Oh Yea TAKE YOUR BINDERS and you don't have to worry about potassium.
I've been trying to drink like half a can of soda (now you're all gonna tell how bad soda is for you) or tea but soda already comes in a 12 oz can you can always refill your glass. Should I eat pop sickles instead of ice?
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TAKE YOUR BINDERS and you don't have to worry about potassium.
Binders actually help with phosphorus, not potassium.. things like Renagel, tums, or calcium carbonate (I've taken all of these over the years) are phosphorus binders.. There may be potassium binders as well, but I've never heard of any
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Home made chicken noodle soup can have far L:ESS salt than store bought. You control the salt when making anything at home.
I also have searched for potassium binders. My Clinic has given me a prescription and the VA Pharmacy filled it. It is some liquid that IF the Clinic was closed for some reason and I were to miss too many treatment only then I would be directed how much and how often to take this in attempt to either remove or prevent the absorption of some potassium from my meals. I should look again and post the name of this stuff.
I often eonder why we shouldn't use something like this at every meal. At least for those of us that tend to run high.
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I often eonder why we shouldn't use something like this at every meal. At least for those of us that tend to run high.
Because Kayexalate is horrible, nasty stuff! :puke;
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:wine; :wine;[/b]
TAKE YOUR BINDERS and you don't have to worry about potassium.
Binders actually help with phosphorus, not potassium.. things like Renagel, tums, or calcium carbonate (I've taken all of these over the years) are phosphorus binders.. There may be potassium binders as well, but I've never heard of any
My bad you're right the binders are for phosphorus... I take Renagel ... Now
Lets talk about alcohol and apple sauce. I was told by a tech that I can eat as much apple sauce as I want. Where is the fluid in that and what fruits can we eat without counting the fluid intake also are wine spritzers a good way to drink alcohol and and lets talk about beer. I don't know if you have a Kroger's grocery store near by they have a bar/beer tasting... I would like to participate... talk to me :twocents;
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BigDadii, I feel your pain! This is the first time I have done in-center hemo (did NxStage home hemo prior to transplant), and I am struggling with fluids, potassium and phosphorus. I wish there was a magic fix for all of these things, but I haven't found one. I drink one soda per day (my only treat since I don't drink coffee) and the rest of the time eat ice chips. I also drink a few sips of water with my meds. Other than that, all of my fluid must come from the food I eat. I try to avoid soups, etc., but do eat the occasional Popsicle and fruits/veggies. I still gain 2+ kg between treatments, closer to 4 after my 2 days off. It is frustrating and depressing. Both phosphorus and potassium were high last time I had labs. I broke out my Davita cookbook this weekend, so I'm hoping the numbers get better. I would think the beer tasting would be out of the question for me. But it sure sounds good! I would also think applesauce would contribute to fluid intake, but maybe not as much as soup or Popsicles. It's really hard to figure out the liquids for me. Good luck, and I hope you can manage to try the beers! :beer1;
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I often eonder why we shouldn't use something like this at every meal. At least for those of us that tend to run high.
Because Kayexalate is horrible, nasty stuff! :puke;
TRUTH!! It's absolutely disgusting. When I was a kid, we were made to drink these drinks, we called it "formula." It was a mix of something like Ensure or Boost with Kayexalate and some kind of protein powder. It was horrible, and I hated it. I was lucky enough that I didn't need to drink it when I was home, because I ate well enough I didn't need it, but I refused to eat hospital food, so I had to drink it when I was in the hospital.
I don't know if you have a Kroger's grocery store near by they have a bar/beer tasting... I would like to participate... talk to me :twocents;
I was told that if you are going to drink alcohol, you should probably stick to hard liquors like rum or vodka. Beer, because of how it's made, is high in phosphorus, plus, it's got a lot of sugar in it, if you are diabetic.
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I eat ramen noodles and have never had a problem with them.. my labs show that I don't have to completely adhere to the diet.. I can cheat here and there and it's not going to affect me... I also keep several packets of the flavoring in my dialysis bag, for the days that my bp drops.. put the flavoring in a cup of hot water and drink it.. brings the bp back up very well
Hello Riki,
Please tell me what the word "flavoring" means and what sort of it you put into your dialysis-bag?
Many thanks for the info from Kristina. :grouphug;
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LOL, I am pretty sure Kristina meant the bag that she carries her supplies in to the Clinic. Definitely NOT to go into any dialysis fluid.
Any time blood pressure drops below an acceptable level it is possible for the circulating volume to be drawn down too los.. The addition of salt added to a cup of water is a way of increasing the circulating volume as the body more readily absorbs salt water quicker than plain water. The blood has to contain that small amount of salt or other things go wrong quickly. This the reason IV fluids in Hospitals contain that 5% salt. Very close to the bodies needs.
hope this helps.
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@angiepkd
i haven't even come close to your experience with your ERSD and I thank you for you response. :bow;I also go to Davita. it was when I was drinking the wine spritzers (homemade) that i only gained 3Kg's.
does alcohol dehydrate you and cause you to come in lighter? and Why can't we take diuretics to help with our fluid intake ?
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Post cardiac issues I am on lasix but have been sternly warned to not take them on dialysis days since they can screw up body chemistry on dialysis days. Plus I have RKF (Residual Kidney Function) I was not fluid restricted prior to my heart attack, if you don't pee the diuretics don't work.
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Because I still have some residual kidney function, p'ing less than a liter a day, I take three 40MG tabs twice a day, plus something that helps the lasix work. I'll remember the name in a little bit. Starts with M. Matalazone. Or very close to that.
No one has ever mentioned that lasix taken day of treatment could have an impact. Where do I learn more?
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I am not sure about alcohol and dehydration, and I haven't tried it to see if it helps me come in lighter. Something to think about. Right now, I am unable to have any alcohol because of my C diff treatment. I guess alcohol can do a number on the good bacteria in your gut. I am going to ask about it when I get home. I do take lasix, and barely urinate any more. No one has told me not to take it on dialysis days. If you find any good info on this, please post! Big dadii, I hope you figure out a way to make it all work. Dialysis takes a lot out of us and away from us, so it would be great to hear a fluid success story that doesn't involve being thirsty all the time or avoiding some of the simple things others take for granted (like an ice cold beer in a frosty mug)!
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Dialysis takes a lot out of us and away from us, so it would be great to hear a fluid success story that doesn't involve being thirsty all the time or avoiding some of the simple things others take for granted (like an ice cold beer in a frosty mug)!
Alongside a large Supreme Pizza! With ALL the toppings!
Those days are long past.
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Post heart attack, before my ejection fraction went up I was unable to sleep because my lungs were filling with fluid. I repeatedly asked for oxygen to use at night but was told it probably was sleep apnea. I explained that it wasn't sleep apnea because the breathing problems lasted for several hours sitting up. The only sleep I was getting was during dialysis because they put me on oxygen. Desperate I started taking lasix on non dialysis days and told the nurse practitioner that I was taking lasix every day. She literally freaked telling me that lasix and dialysis could screw up my body chemistry.
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She literally freaked telling me that lasix and dialysis could screw up my body chemistry.
It affects your K+, your not working kidney won't correct it.
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Cas you are exactly right that's what she was so heatedly explaining to me when I was in the chair during dialysis. All I know is I have been following her schedule ever since.
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My husband takes lasix 80mg a day, and no one has ever told us it would interact with his dialysis/potassium. The more I learn about this, the worse our center seems.
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Hello Riki,
Please tell me what the word "flavoring" means and what sort of it you put into your dialysis-bag?
Many thanks for the info from Kristina. :grouphug;
Most ramen noodles come with some kind of a flavor packet. The ones I usually get are either vegetable or chicken. I don't always use them, so I have a few of them in my dialysis bag (and yes, that's the kitbag that I keep my blanket, sweater, slippers, and gloves, not to mention emergency gauzes and bandaids, for dialysis). The packets are mostly salt and some kind of artificial flavoring. If you put it in a cup of hot water and drink it when your bp drops, it will help to bring the bp back up again. When my unit was in a nursing home, instead of the hospital like it is now, they would keep bouillon cubes on hand for the same reason. They'd dissolve the cube in a cup of hot water and have you drink it. The flavor packet is the same idea, it just tastes a little better, plus, the hospital doesn't let them keep things like that on hand. They can't, however, stop me from keeping things like that on hand
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@Kristina I've also wondered about eating soup like Ramen noodles or chillie (during the winter I like eating soup)
Sorry, BigDadii, I have only just now noticed your interesting thought...
... I have become extremely cautious about soups and have to consider them as an absolute luxury,
which I only allow myself to indulge in about once a month and only,
when I my monthly blood-readings could not have been any better.
... It's all about liquid-control...
... Such is life on dialysis ... :grouphug;
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Hello Riki,
Please tell me what the word "flavoring" means and what sort of it you put into your dialysis-bag?
Many thanks for the info from Kristina. :grouphug;
Most ramen noodles come with some kind of a flavor packet. The ones I usually get are either vegetable or chicken. I don't always use them, so I have a few of them in my dialysis bag (and yes, that's the kitbag that I keep my blanket, sweater, slippers, and gloves, not to mention emergency gauzes and bandaids, for dialysis). The packets are mostly salt and some kind of artificial flavoring. If you put it in a cup of hot water and drink it when your bp drops, it will help to bring the bp back up again. When my unit was in a nursing home, instead of the hospital like it is now, they would keep bouillon cubes on hand for the same reason. They'd dissolve the cube in a cup of hot water and have you drink it. The flavor packet is the same idea, it just tastes a little better, plus, the hospital doesn't let them keep things like that on hand. They can't, however, stop me from keeping things like that on hand
Many thanks Riki for your kind explanation, it is very much appreciated.
Fortunately I have not come across bp-problems yet, but it is good to know what to do, just in case...
and I have just put a vegetarian-bouillon-cube into my own dialysis bag, just in case ...
Many thanks again from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Ok folks i love and appreciate all your help and answers to my fluid questions. I've never been told I am a RKF but I too still urinate a little. My nephrologist is the one that took me off the lasix and didn't tell me why.
Right now I'm dealing with a cold and I'm a mouth breather so my mouth is dry alot and I'm eating a lot of ice. I've been doing ok with my fluid.
To the leaders of this loved forum are there any forums like this about diabetes ?
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Many of us are also Diabetic. I was finally diagnosed and handed the insulin pens 6 months after starting PD.
I have written down EVERY sugar test AND every injection. Within 3 months I brought my A1C down from 10+ to 6.2
I kept track of everything like that for my first couple of years, then after becoming so well controlled and being very careful about my Diet, I haven't needed but a very rare injection of 2 units of fast. I take my Lantus Religiously every evening.
It hasn't been easy. I have radically changed how much, and what I eat. NO JUNK.
How can we help you?
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I've been adding green/red/yellow bell peppers and onions every day to my husband's meals. He says he is less thirsty after those meals. I simple chop up about 1/2 cup of them and saute them with a little canola oil before adding to his eggs or whatever. I sprinkle a little black pepper, onion powder and parsley on them while sauteing and then mix them in with his food.
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I to am a mouth breather and during the period after my heart attack I started using a dental rinse sort of a mouth wash lite after the rinse I usually rinnse again with a little bit of water. Dry mouth is also beaten with a spray or candy.
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I don't know if I've mentioned this in this thread or not..
A few years ago, I went to walmart and bought a counter top ice maker, so I always have ice on hand. I have an old style sports bottle, kinda like the ones you see hockey players using. When I first got the ice maker, I filled the bottle with ice and let it melt, then measured the water. It was about 300mls of water, so that's pretty much how much water the ice will give me. I fill the bottle and drink the water as the ice melts. As long as I don't cheat and chew the ice, it will last me a few hours
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I had sinus and deviated septum surgery in October, and a saline sinus spray helps with my dry nose, sinus and throat. I wonder if it would help with the dryness from fluid restriction. Just a thought. I googled it and there isn't a whole lot of information saying it helps, but some people think it does. At the very least it is fluid you won't have worry about counting towards your limit!
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During my two and a half week stay in the hospital was the cardiac menu had a low or now salt chicken soup. I got a bowl of it twice a day and a side of either noodles or rice which I put in the soup. It was heavenly having chicken soup for the first time in four years.