I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Epoman on January 10, 2007, 03:55:24 PM

Title: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Epoman on January 10, 2007, 03:55:24 PM: WARNING LONG ASS POST

To ALL members,

Something has come up, two times in the last week alone. So I figured I better set the record straight just in case anyone else thinks I am getting "RICH" off of sick people. I recently had a heated chat about this subject with a very active member in the IHD Chat Room, a couple of you were witnesses. Then I get a PM this morning from a different member. And I think it's time to discuss it.

HERE IS A PM (private message) I RECEIVED from a member, that I woke up to today, (I left all the spelling mistakes in.):

I wasn't sure which one of yall was in charge

http://www.dreamworld.org and http://www.dreamhost.com will host non profits for free and without ads, getting rid of hosting costs. That just leaves the cost of the domains, which couldn't be that much (godaddy) unless they were purchased from a broker/squatter.

If you're trying to make a few bucks for yourself, thats coo, but I don't understand why the site would cost so much to run that you'd need more than one or two "premium members," to cover it, especially with possible profits from the store.

A while back there was a site that offered to match living donors to reciepients. It offered a place for people to ask for organs on the net.. for $500 a month. The site claimed that the money was to run the site and had the nerve to even ask for donations on top of that.

Because I'm an html Jedi myself I've thought of writing a site where people could do this for free, but I'm not sure if it would even be worthwhile. I don't think many people get hooked up with kidneys that way. Seems it would be a waste of time. If I do ever get around to coding this site I will contact all the people on the paid site and offer that they come to mine for free.

So anyway the only other expense I can think of for this site is moderation, and if anything it seems this site is overmoderated. It doesn't really bother me but my posts are always getting moved around and recatagorized and such. Are the moderators paid or something?

Again if you're trying to make a few dollars for yourself, thats totally cool and understandable. Ain't no shame in trying to make a profit, but it does seem alittle shameful to me to say you are trying to get funds to keep the site up when that seems like it could be only the cost of domains.

If you're really concerned about the site not lasting if you go home I'd be happy to take it over, I'm young and (other than kidney failure) very healthy. I'm also in a very comfortable financial situation and could easily come up with domain reregistration and even hosting (though hosting would not be necessary.)

I hope you don't find this to be confrontational, I first typed my questions in repsonce to a thread about premium membership but then decided that it might be better to ask this way.

Finally if you can help me understand why this site is so expensive I'd like to subscribe. Thing is I NEVER give out my creidt card info on the net, even to paypal. If you have a po box where I can send a check I'd be happy to do that.

Thanks

NAME REMOVED

Here is MY REPLY:

Well it really seems you do not know the whole story and must not know about things like bandwidth and what a VPS is even though you claim to be a "html Jedi". Ok first off, the IHD family of sites which are 7, not counting domains that are bought to protect the integrity of the sites, and domains that are held for future development for the IHD family of sites.

Here are a list of the domain names which I own:

ihatedialysis.com
ihatedialysis.net
ihatedialysis.org
ihatedialysis.info
ihatedialysis.ca
ihatedialysis.co.uk
wehatedialysis.com
ihatekidneydisease.com
nxstageathome.com
ilovenxstage.com
ilovenxstage.org
ilovenxstage.net
dialysischat.com
mykidneygear.com
ilovehomedialysis.com
ilovehomedialysis.org
ilovehomedialysis.net
renalromance.com
epohosting.com

+2 more sites that I wish not to reveal as they are a secret but will be a part of the IHD family one day. One of those sites, the Premium Members already know about it.

That is 21 sites at $8.88 Each + $2.88 for WhoisGuard to protect my identity as if I didn't pay the $2.88 anyone could do a "DNS lookup" (basically a domain name owner lookup) and find out my home address. Those numbers comes to a total of $246.96

Then, sorry but those sites you mentioned do not offer 24/7 live phone tech support and VPS services and would not give me the bandwidth that is needed for the IHD family of sites. Plus the SPEED at which the VPS sits makes IHD load very quickly and I am looking at a near 100% up time, PLUS they provide many extra services that would be beyond your scope of knowledge such as cpanel, cron jobs, scripts, fantastico, etc, etc.

Here is a break down of my monthly cost from a company called http://www.liquidweb.com and http://www.namecheap.com The domain registra I use.

VPS with 20gb/200gb bandwidth $60 a month so lets do the math shall we? $60 X 12 months = $720

$720 hosting + $246.96 = $966.96 which is the MINIMUM amount due to host the IHD family of sites ANNUALLY, a far cry from what you think. Divide the cost of Premium Memberships that comes to 16 Premium Memberships required EVERY year. Now when I have new members become premium member, I pay in advance the hosting fees as to insure this site ALWAYS stays online even after my death and that will indeed be a reality thanks to the Premium Memberships. AND that is not even counting money I spend out of my own pocket to pay others to help me with projects that I need help with such as creating "Kidney Kickups" (the kidney game), RSS feeds, etc, etc.

I don't think you understand that ihatedialysis is the most popular dialysis message board on the INTERNET, IHD is the most active averaging 120+ NEW posts EVERYDAY. IHD is more active than any other site on the Internet 10X FOLD. The second TOP site for dialysis message boards receives at most 10-15 new posts a day. And IHD is growing FAST within the next year we will have over 1,500 members. And the more the site is used the more bandwidth that is needed, and the more it costs to run a popular site. Just for your information some of the top sites on the Internet can cost many hundreds to even THOUSANDS of dollars to run MONTHLY, yes I said MONTHLY, IHD is not close to that, but hopefully one day we will be that popular.

Now if you add the cost of hosting IHD, all the other sites, plus the cost of hosting the ARCADE games located at dialysischat.com you will realize how expensive this site is. Soon if the site, IHD and others continue to grow at the current rate of growth, I will need to upgrade my VPS hosting to another package which will be $100 a month which is a Premium VPS. And the even MORE Premium Members will be needed to help support IHD. AND eventually I may need to upgrade to a DEDICATED SERVER which through Liquidweb costs $149 a MONTH to START, and goes up from there. Here is a link so you can see for yourself: https://www.liquidweb.com/cart/content/dedicated/ which is a very good price for a "dedicated server" some places are much more expensive. There is a lot more to hosting then you think, many places offer cheap hosting for as low as $1.99 a month but IHD is now far above that level of service/storage/bandwidth, in fact when I first started IHD, I WAS INDEED using a FREE hosting service, however as the site grows you are forced to upgrade your plan and that is just the way it is. As a side note to hosting, when IHD was on a FREE hosting plan the site was much slower and we had several times where we were offline due to technically issues that webmasters who use FREE webhosts are prone to.

Also I have NEVER once claimed that IHD is a NON-PROFIT, I do have "Google ads" but the money received from it is very minimal, just enough to take my family out to a nice dinner once a month and feel like a man knowing that I PAID for that meal with all my hard work. I don't think you have any idea how much time and energy I have invested in IHD and the other sites and the amount of time I put into this site on a daily basis, even when I feel sick like a dog sometimes. I am always updating the sites and ALWAYS keeping my members surprised by adding new features, events, or even NEW websites. I keep the family of IHD sites fresh and that is one of the reasons IHD is so popular.

Also becoming a Premium Member has added benefits not available to regular members, did you even see that thread? Here is a link: http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=1482.0 One of the benefits is since I have a VPS I hosts Premium Members personal websites. That is just one of the benefits of becoming a premium member. So you'll see that not only do the premium members support the site, they get added features.

Now since you mentioned the "Store" mykidneygear.com, I have designed EACH and every one of those designs, I make a few bucks off of each shirt and I offer FREE custom work. How much does a Graphic Artist make now a days, mykidneygear is HARDLY profitable. I do make a little bit of money off the products I sell and design, but mostly I do it for fun and to make dialysis patients laugh and find humor in this terrible disease. The money received from MyKidneyGear is not used to run IHD, why should it be? It is for my time and design work. Did I mention I do FREE custom designs?

You are the second person to question my integrity and I take great insult to it, especially to you comparing me to the owner of that site that offered to match living donors to recipients for a profit. I literally work my ass of for this site and I do it for practically NOTHING, what is your time worth to you? What are these sites worth to you? If you were to pay me hourly for the work I do on these sites, for people like you.... I would make MAYBE .10 cents a hour, which to me is not worth it at all. There is a lot of work that goes on BEHIND the scenes that I guess you fail to realize, there are daily backups, weekly backups, optimizing the SQL Database, forum software upgrades, meetings between the admin team, etc, etc and that is JUST for IHD, I am not counting all the work for the other sites such as the ARCADE. It takes a LOT of work to run this site that many people have no idea what is involved. HOWEVER what does make it worth it is when I get APPRECIATION from members like this thread: http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=2083.0 or the number of NEW friends I have made since creating IHD some are as close or even closer than FAMILY. I do all my work for those kinds of rewards not money.

I am sorry if you take this as an attack or as a hostile reply, however since you told me "Finally if you can help me understand why this site is so expensive I'd like to subscribe. I just wanted you to get a true understanding and I wanted to post this on the site for others to see since this has come up before from another member recently and I wanted to set the record straight. Because I am tired of defending myself to people who have no clue.

Now do you still want to become a Premium Member? If so send me another PM asking me for my address since you do not use Paypal. Hopefully now you have a better understanding for WHY I ask for people like you to support this site and become premium members, since if you notice this site is JUST as BIG as the other corporate sponsored sites, however I have no corporate sponsorships. Again I mean no disrespect to you and I realize that you meant none to me. Again I just wanted to set the record straight. And I look forward to your PM.

- Epoman
Owner/Admin

P.S. You say "I'm also in a very comfortable financial situation and could easily come up with domain reregistration and even hosting (though hosting would not be necessary.)" So then will you be purchasing a Premium Membership or will you be making a donation or BOTH?

So that was the PM's we exchanged, I left the members name out to hide their identity out of respect since I posted their PM here on the site. I hope this clears up any doubts any of you had about me or my true intentions, if any. Here are some links to help you get a better understanding of the items that were discussed, if you are interested in learning more.

http://www.liquidweb.com
http://www.namecheap.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_web_hosting_service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_cap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_hosting_service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_server
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedicated_hosting_service

If you have any questions, feel free to discuss here.

- Epoman
Owner/Admin

P.S. I forgot to mention about her saying in her PM,

"So anyway the only other expense I can think of for this site is moderation, and if anything it seems this site is overmoderated. It doesn't really bother me but my posts are always getting moved around and recatagorized and such. Are the moderators paid or something?"

That was probably the most IGNORANT comment ever from a new member I have ever heard, she has no idea obviously what it takes to run OR keep a site organized, well maintained, and free from spammers and I consider her statement a "slap in the face" to the mods and admin team for all the hard work and long hours they put in. The admin works for no money they do it out of the kindness of their heart. This site is open 24/7, active every hour of the day and night, we get thousands of posts every month, delete spammers EVERYDAY, and we have 3 mods and 2 admins, again she is showing her lack of knowledge of what it takes to run a site. She has a very small amount of posts (at the time of this writing) and 5 have been moved, and one was a double post. She is so new and already starting trouble. In fact she is so new she doesn't even know who the owner of IHD is. Yet she feels compelled to say those things AND:

If you're really concerned about the site not lasting if you go home I'd be happy to take it over, I'm young and (other than kidney failure) very healthy. I'm also in a very comfortable financial situation and could easily come up with domain reregistration and even hosting (though hosting would not be necessary.)

WTF? You would happy to take it over? Oh sure no problem, consider IHD and all the sister sites YOURS when I die. SCREW the Admin team and my only son.

Sorry to my members, if you are thinking to yourself "oh shit, Epoman is freaking out again" sorry but I take comments like this very personal and I just wanted to clear up some issues, and you know me I speak my mind and let it off my chest as I encourage you all to do. The night I chatted to that member in the chat room about her questioning my integrity, I didn't sleep wondering what else everyone thinks of me. Just ask Goofynina as I told her how I didn't sleep that night because of the conversation I had with that well known very active member. It was very upsetting she even said to me:

if i tell someone about kidney.org, no one can say "oh they are just making money off sick folks"

And that really shocked the HELL out of me. And made me think am I such an asshole for making $50-$60 off the site monthly because of the "Google Ads" am I as a sick person myself taking advantage of sick people? SHE must feel that way or why else would she say that also she is VERY active and uses the site daily and well off financially but she herself is not a Premium Member, she used the excuse that she hasn't had time to become a premium member? Yet she had time to spend in the chat room insulting me, so she MUST feel that way and that is what upset me, but I let it roll of my back as ignorance of what it actually takes to run these sites. But then I get this PM from a different member this morning and BAM! I became upset. To give you an example of how much time this site and the others eat from my life... because of this members PM, I have been working on this post for the last 4 hours.

In closing I would like to add that I do not mind if she or that other member do NOT become premium members because I have always said that becoming a premium member is VOLUNTARY and OPTIONAL and is not a requirement of viewing IHD or ANY of it's sister sites. And in general IHD will always remain FREE to EVERYONE that has Internet access. I would like to thank the Premium members for realizing that sites such as this do INDEED cost money to run and are thankful enough to show their appreciation and want to help make IHD not a financial burden for me, a fellow patient. And if have read this entire post I thank you for allowing me to rant.

Discuss?
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight.
Post by: charee on January 10, 2007, 04:11:53 PM: I'm not sure what to Say to that BUT one thing I can say is that I've never thought you were making money out of this, I would love to become a "Premium Member" and I will one day when things improve with my finances I know you put heaps and heaps of time into this site and so do the "moderators " and i appreciate all you all do for us. Just my :twocents; worth. Hope you can have a nice day now you have got that out of you system :grouphug;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: jbeany on January 10, 2007, 05:00:15 PM: Don't let them get you down, epo. I know how much time my husband puts into his web hosting and internet service. He's online for hours almost every night. So far he hasn't made a dime - everything goes back into equipment and registration fees. It's a time consuming job without much immediate reward.

I want premium member status myself - hopefully, I will have the cash sometime this year.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: goofynina on January 10, 2007, 05:03:10 PM: Since becoming an Admin. i have been paying close attention to all Epoman does and let me tell you, unless you actually see what goes on behind the scenes, you dont know shit... The upkeep, the maintenance, the amount of time he/we spend online trying to find new ways to improve this or improve that, all for US, (the IHD family) and i CANNOT BELIEVE anyone would have the audacity to question this mans integrity. They should be ashamed of themselves. I took personal offence to the remark about the Moderators getting paid and such, what kind of bullshit is that? THIS IS A PRIVILEDGE!!! Being able to help build this site and keep it so well maintained and in order has probably been the best job i've had ever... I have been to other websites that have been (not so organized) and it is overwhelming and confusing, i dont even bother anymore, i am happy here, MY HOME AWAY FROM HOME... Epoman, i admire your professionalism in the post regarding this matter and i apologize for the ignorance of others. Please, by all means, keep on keepin' on my brother, so many people need this site and whether they want to admit it or not, we all need you too... YOU are this site boss :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Sluff on January 10, 2007, 05:11:25 PM: I'll keep it short. Being the newest Moderator here, I can attest to the fact, the amount of time I personally spend on the site IHD and Renal Romance. There are day's when I'm not working that I am litterally on for many hours a day. I enjoy my position and provide the service absolutely free of charge, I am proud to do this for all the IHD'ers out there that I feel needs my help. My job here requires me to move threads into the proper sections when needed, whether that hurts someones feelings or not. Trust me sometimes it is an undecisive nightmare, but I do my best, and I think that most of the 640 members understand this. I read every post that is written, repair the Icons and the quote tags that usually don't work due to poster error. I'm not complaining, there is a lot of personal satifaction in knowing I am helping.

Bottom line... I wish I could do more, I am very motivated to make a difference in others lives in the renal community, and I hope that I'm doing that by Moderating these sites, organizing the annual meet and helping to try and help the rest of the Admin team come up with new things to try and make this site even more interesting for you, the members.

If the money issue is a problem than don't become a premium member, Simple.

I Love the IHD Family of sites, it's members and the rest of the Administration Team. I am here for you.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: BigSky on January 10, 2007, 05:11:38 PM: Don't know what to really say?? Kinda speechless that anyone would suggest that about you and this site. ???
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: aharris2 on January 10, 2007, 05:56:46 PM: hey, do u guys mean that nobody gets paid for running this great site ??? ????????????

o shit!! n i was thinking on becoming a moderator myself... :rofl;

i guess u have to be :urcrazy; to do something like that....well crazy people r the best

:chillpill; everybody life wouldn't be interesting without its :thumbup; and :thumbdown;

life is too short to be taken so seriously just keep the ihd :grouphug; growing

:2thumbsup; to epoman and the moderators

sincerely,

Rolando (a newbie here)
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: glitter on January 10, 2007, 06:08:26 PM: well I hope this site grows to the point where you are making enough to leave a boatload of cash to your family-screw what anyone else thinks-you are providing a valuable service,and I for one appreciate it.In the future i hope to be a premium member too.....and I don't see anything wrong with you makeing one buck or a boatload of bucks for all the hardwork....and if some peeps think your awful for that,bear in mind they are a small percentage...and not worth worrying about...I mean really...they don't HAVE to come here.F*** em and feed em fishheads!!
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Rerun on January 10, 2007, 06:18:37 PM: You couldn't PAY me enough to moderate this site. In fact, I pay to be a Premium Member too. I was the first moderator because Life On Hold died (bless her soul) Finally the site grew too big for just me, so Epoman appointed others to help. Thank God! I do like being able to fix things that are wrong. Except spelling! Epoman won't let us fix spelling errors! My fingers get really itchy but I don't do it. Which reminds me! Can we all just hit "spell check"? Is it that hard to read your post before sending it? It doesn't have to be perfect but some of the crap that I "try" to read is an embarrassment.

I'm not mad at the person who questioned. Questions are good. Answers are good too.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Chicken Little on January 10, 2007, 06:20:56 PM: When I see things like that PM, I have to wonder does this person act like this in real life or do they just feel it's safe to do in the anonymity of cyberworld. >:D

Don't let them get to you Epoman. The best response to people like that is "You're entitled to your feelings, even if they aren't based in fact. Have a nice day." You don't owe them an explanation.

:beer1;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Sluff on January 10, 2007, 06:23:31 PM: Quote from: glitter on January 10, 2007, 06:08:26 PM
well I hope this site grows to the point where you are making enough to leave a boatload of cash to your family-screw what anyone else thinks-you are providing a valuable service,and I for one appreciate it.In the future i hope to be a premium member too.....and I don't see anything wrong with you makeing one buck or a boatload of bucks for all the hardwork....and if some peeps think your awful for that,bear in mind they are a small percentage...and not worth worrying about...I mean really...they don't HAVE to come here.F*** em and feed em fishheads!!

Epoman is not making money off this site.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: jbeany on January 10, 2007, 06:26:17 PM: Maybe not now, sluff. But if he starts too, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Why shouldn't he be reimbursed for his time and effort? I agree with glitter - this site is a valuable service!
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: glitter on January 10, 2007, 06:34:29 PM: Quote from: sluff on January 10, 2007, 06:23:31 PM
Quote from: glitter on January 10, 2007, 06:08:26 PM
well I hope this site grows to the point where you are making enough to leave a boatload of cash to your family-screw what anyone else thinks-you are providing a valuable service,and I for one appreciate it.In the future i hope to be a premium member too.....and I don't see anything wrong with you makeing one buck or a boatload of bucks for all the hardwork....and if some peeps think your awful for that,bear in mind they are a small percentage...and not worth worrying about...I mean really...they don't HAVE to come here.F*** em and feed em fishheads!!

Epoman is not making money off this site.

I understand that he isn't-but if he did I would be glad,and eventually he might,and that is not a bad thing.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Jill D. on January 10, 2007, 06:36:21 PM: Epoman - you just keep doing what you are doing. You provided a great outlet for dialysis patients when you decided to make this site. Frankly, I think it would be great if you could make some decent money doing what you do. After all, it's pretty much your job, and you have a wife and son who would benefit. Think of the $$$$ that people in the medical field make off of dialysis patients...I would rather see a dialysis brother make some cheese for providing such an awesome service for other dialysis patients! I certainly understand you being insulted by the PM that you received, but I think that 99% of the membership would be throwing money at you if we could!
Keep up the great work :2thumbsup; (that goes out to the mods too!)
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Sluff on January 10, 2007, 06:51:07 PM: Quote from: glitter on January 10, 2007, 06:34:29 PM
Quote from: sluff on January 10, 2007, 06:23:31 PM
Quote from: glitter on January 10, 2007, 06:08:26 PM
well I hope this site grows to the point where you are making enough to leave a boatload of cash to your family-screw what anyone else thinks-you are providing a valuable service,and I for one appreciate it.In the future i hope to be a premium member too.....and I don't see anything wrong with you makeing one buck or a boatload of bucks for all the hardwork....and if some peeps think your awful for that,bear in mind they are a small percentage...and not worth worrying about...I mean really...they don't HAVE to come here.F*** em and feed em fishheads!!

Epoman is not making money off this site.

I understand that he isn't-but if he did I would be glad,and eventually he might,and that is not a bad thing.

Sorry If I misunderstood your other post.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: angela515 on January 10, 2007, 07:31:34 PM: I don't think you need to defend yourself from such a ridiculous PM. I personally think you SHOULD make money off this site, you dedicate a LOT of time and hard work into it, I think you should get some kind of profits. I look forward to being able to become a Premium Member when I have enough money, this site rocks... and has been VERY helpful to me, and I onsider you al family.

:clap;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: strateup on January 10, 2007, 08:09:04 PM: Epoman The services you provide are priceless. Realize that for every one negative person there are at least a thousand of us that are extremely grateful for what you do. You have provided all of us a place to share, to rant, to help, to care, to come together to deal with the issues in our lives. Although my family loves me very much and cares about my health, they don't quite understand like the people I have met on this website. To you I give one thousand thanks, keep up the goodwork, you are appreciated.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Ohio Buckeye on January 10, 2007, 09:45:00 PM: I hope this is a profitable venture for you someday.
hope I can be a prem. member also someday.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: Bajanne on January 10, 2007, 10:21:23 PM: How could I put a money value on what this site has meant to me? I thank God that I met it when I did. It made at total difference to how I coped with dialysis, and I have gained some fantastic friends, to boot. Look at the time and effort that Epoman spends on this site. He should be making a mint for that, if life was fair!
Title: I am the one with the nerve to ask questions
Post by: raina on January 10, 2007, 10:24:03 PM: I never said you were getting rich off sick people, I questioned the need for donations to keep this site going when it can be done for less than $20 a year.

Yes, the free options are not as shiney as the 1000/a year ones, but they could keep the site up and running. You said yourself you couldn't afford it. Perhaps you don't need 25 domains? I'm sure one would do. I personally have dozens of websites and no domains, I just use free services on the net to keep my anonimity.

You made it sound like the site would go down completely withot memberships. This is obviously not the case.

I understand making a site like this is a lot of work and I respect that. Alot of sites I visit, like oddtodd.com, have tip jars and po boxes to send donations too and I have donated.

You were making it sound like you needed money that was absolutely necessary to keep the site running, and that doesn't seem to be the case. It could be run on one url with free hosting. Tons of services offer free forum hosting, like bravenet and craigslist.

EDITED: Merged this reply from a NEW thread to this thread. Why would you create a NEW thread and not just reply to this one? - Epoman, Owner/Admin
Title: Re: I am the one with the nerve to ask questions
Post by: Epoman on January 11, 2007, 12:00:42 AM: Quote from: raina on January 10, 2007, 10:24:03 PM
I never said you were getting rich off sick people, I questioned the need for donations to keep this site going when it can be done for less than $20 a year.

Yes, the free options are not as shiney as the 1000/a year ones, but they could keep the site up and running. You said yourself you couldn't afford it. Perhaps you don't need 25 domains? I'm sure one would do. I personally have dozens of websites and no domains, I just use free services on the net to keep my anonimity.

You made it sound like the site would go down completely withot memberships. This is obviously not the case.

I understand making a site like this is a lot of work and I respect that. Alot of sites I visit, like oddtodd.com, have tip jars and po boxes to send donations too and I have donated.

You were making it sound like you needed money that was absolutely necessary to keep the site running, and that doesn't seem to be the case. It could be run on one url with free hosting. Tons of services offer free forum hosting, like bravenet and craigslist.

EDITED: Merged this reply from a NEW thread to this thread. Why would you create a NEW thread and not just reply to this one? - Epoman, Owner/Admin

WOW, thank you, now I know that you really are clueless and don't know nothing about running websites. You can't even post in the correct thread, you made a new thread to reply to this one. I had to merge it here. You actually wonder why we have to moderate your posts? And you own dozens of sites? I don't know why I even bother with you but, explain to me where I can get a FREE host that will allow me so store a site as large as IHD, and offer the speed and reliability. You said "perhaps I don't need 25 sites", did you even read my thread, you can't even read where I said I own 21. So tell me how ONE site will do to handle: ilovenxstage, renalromance, dialysischat, kidneyoogle, mykidneygear, SUB-DOMAINS? No thanks. Oh that's right you have a blog and get 10 hits a month and you think you are a webmaster...Oh wait that's right you are a "HTML Jedi". Look if you think you can build a better site and offer the same great site as IHD then by all means go out and try and do it yourself. All the MAJOR dialysis sites PAY for hosting, NONE of them use free hosts, the difference is they have corporate sponsorships to pay for the hosting and extra bandwidth, which is why you do not see "Premium Members" on their sites.

Here is from some info from http://www.bravenet.com/ the one you mentioned that I could get free hosting from with one of their FREE accounts:

(http://www.ihatedialysis.com/images/bravenet.jpg)

Notice where it says 50MB of disk space? currently, IHD alone, not counting the other sites like the "Arcade" uses:

8556.80 MB's

And as for bandwidth they offer 1.5GB which is about 1,500 MB for their FREE account, IHD used:

15GB last month which is 15,000+ MB's 10 times MORE than what they allow.

Can you understand that? Do you have ANY comprehension of what I am talking about? And that is JUST for IHD not counting the other sister sites of IHD, do have any idea how much storage/bandwidth the ARCADE located on dialysischat.com uses? Do you have any idea how much the members enjoy the arcade? That site uses a lot of storage and bandwidth all on it's own. Did you even know how CPU speed and RAM come into play when it comes to hosting when your site is sitting on a FREE host and 1,000's of sites are hosted on that same server? The next thing you are going to tell me is I can host this site from my OWN home computer right? Well WRONG, what if my computer goes down, what if my Internet provider goes down.

You also said: I never said you were getting rich off sick people, I questioned the need for donations to keep this site going when it can be done for less than $20 a year. I never did say, you said I was getting rich off of sick people, did you even read my thread? And if you think you can run this site for less than $20 a year. You should tell that to the webmasters who spend hundreds and thousands of dollars a month on hosting to save them a lot of money, you could be a consultant, because it's obvious you have this great knowledge that no one else has. And you have these awesome sources, by the way "craigslist" is not a webhost, it is a virtual yardsale. Did you even know anyone can be a webhost? I mean LITERALLY anyone can be a webhost EVEN from their home computer. But the "guy in his home" vs. "a professional company" is what separates unreliable sites and reliable sites. Let me put it this way If you had a store, a real store would you want your stores electricity provided from some guy with a generator or would you want your store powered by the local power company?

So, you mentioned you own dozens of websites, do me a favor and show me some of your sites. List some here, lets see how popular YOUR sites are. Please show me what makes you a "HTML Jedi" as you call yourself, and please don't show me sites that you used a template or a CMS to create. Sorry but running a blog does not make you a webmaster.

- Epoman
Owner/Admin
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: angieskidney on January 11, 2007, 01:13:13 AM: Sorry if this is offtopic but no way I have time to read all this right now. It is 4am and I am going to bed but I just wanted to say this:

Quote
A while back there was a site that offered to match living donors to reciepients. It offered a place for people to ask for organs on the net.. for $500 a month. The site claimed that the money was to run the site and had the nerve to even ask for donations on top of that.

Because I'm an html Jedi myself I've thought of writing a site where people could do this for free, but I'm not sure if it would even be worthwhile. I don't think many people get hooked up with kidneys that way. Seems it would be a waste of time. If I do ever get around to coding this site I will contact all the people on the paid site and offer that they come to mine for free.

I know another site that both Epoman and I belong to has tried to address that but since it is not a popular site no one knows about it.

Donor Search on D&TC (http://groups.msn.com/DialysisTransplantCity/donorsearch.msnw)

Maybe Epoman can start ANOTHER site but just for that reason?? Sorry if this was already brought up! I will read both pages of this thread later (but it will probably be 4 pages by then lol :angel;)
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: nextnoel on January 11, 2007, 01:12:26 PM: I am amazed - just totally friggin' amazed!

Epoman, I can't tell you how invaluable this site is for me, and how much I appreciate your expertise and how much of your self you put into it, and how strongly I stand by you. Sometimes critics need to think through things better before they post, and they should certainly put more thought and consideration into how they express things. Questions are good, answers are good, comments are good, but Jeez, uninformed ad hominum attacks are just bull##it! YOU GO, GUY!
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: Bette on January 11, 2007, 01:46:42 PM: Epoman, I am sorry that you had to deal with this crap. I love this site and there is no amount of money that can pay you what it is worth to me.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Hawkeye on January 11, 2007, 01:54:11 PM: I know a really decent amount about computers, but next to nothing about running a website. Even with the knowledge I have I know it can't be easy or cheep to run a site this size. There is and old saying that goes you get what you ay for. If you go the cheep route you get cheep and unreliable service. Epoman does a fantastic job keeping this site fresh with new secret additions around every corner, and the others helping do a wonderful job keeping it all clean and tidy. If it weren't for the work that all of you do this site wouldn't be the cream of the crop that it is today. With as much work goes into IHD the few measly dollars you may make that doesn't go right back into the site is nothing compaired to what you deserve. To anyone that thinks this site can be done better and for less money I would like to see them try so I can watch them fall flat on their faces. Keep up the great work and don't let the ignorance of others bother you. :thx; :grouphug;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Nan on January 11, 2007, 02:24:16 PM: You know there is ALWAYS someone who is going to "rock the boat". My mother always told me that people who were hurtful with their words of criticism were pretty much **jealous** of our accomplishments.
This website has been a saving grace for me.....I come here when I am depressed, excited and/or need an education or a shoulder to lean on. I can come here WHENEVER I need it, it is here waiting for me....Thank you!
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: mallory on January 11, 2007, 03:59:50 PM: I don't know how to run a website, but I do know a lot about technology costs because of my job. I don't see any way in the world Epoman could be making money off this site. In fact, I'd be surprised if he was breaking even, I think he must still be paying for a lot of the cost out of his own pocket. I am proud to be the first Premium Member signed up, and, I would be proud to be a Premium Member every year from now on.

Don't let it worry you, Epoman. This site, truly, has saved my life. I talk about it all the time, just ask my sister. Without it, I don't know if I could face dialysis. In short, let me just say:

"I hate dialysis, but I love IHD.com!"
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Sluff on January 11, 2007, 04:05:33 PM: Quote from: mallory on January 11, 2007, 03:59:50 PM

"I hate dialysis, but I love IHD.com!"

Great T-Shirt Idea. :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: RichardMEL on January 11, 2007, 07:12:43 PM: I want to thank Epoman for being so upfront and transparent with his run down of various expenses involved with running this site. Not only does it counter the claims against him, but it says quite a bit for his character and openness and the way he wishes to run this site.

I'm no "HTML Jedi" however I am in the business of running webservers, application servers, database servers and the like. No, I don't have any vanity websites out there (though I do have a dull blog at livejournal) though I used to be out and about with a few websites in the past.

I think Rania is coming from a different experience base... and underestimating the amount of resources a large site like this would consume, and the bandwith costs Epo is willing to take on to make this site so fast to access for us all. If he kept the costs down no doubt some self same users would whinge at how slow things were, or that they couldn't upload images or whatever because of space restrictions.

The other thing that amazes me about this whole thing is that I am a relatively new member here, but Rania is even newer and already questioning the administration of the site? Frankly I think if you have issues with the site feel free to leave and set up your own "for free" and good luck with that venture to become half as good as what this site is.

Thanks again to Epo and the whole team for putting in so much hard work into IHD and related sites.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: kitkatz on January 11, 2007, 07:48:33 PM: Geez! and here I thought you were making the big bucks off of all of us poor sick people! (You need a sarcasm icon to put here)

I truly hope, Epoman, that one day these sites and the many more you will come up with make you a very rich man. You are leaving the world a better place than you found it and will leave something for your family and friends to be proud of. I have no problem with you making money off sites you spend so much time serving and developing. I know if you run into financial difficulties all you have to do is ask on this site and we will respond somehow, someway! As Goofynina says: You go Bossman!
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: glitter on January 11, 2007, 08:03:30 PM: http://www.geocities.com/narcism_central/

:popcorn; :wine;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: kitkatz on January 11, 2007, 08:04:46 PM: In addition, Mods you have MY permission to correct spelling errors for me. You all KNOW I need a scribe! :banghead;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Epoman on January 11, 2007, 08:27:19 PM: Quote from: glitter on January 11, 2007, 08:03:30 PM
http://www.geocities.com/narcism_central/

:popcorn; :wine;

LOL, Thanks "glitter" I think this proves me point EXACTLY. :thumbup;

- Epoman

(http://www.ihatedialysis.com/images/rainassiteoffline.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: vandie on January 11, 2007, 08:32:09 PM: Quote from: glitter on January 11, 2007, 08:03:30 PM
http://www.geocities.com/narcism_central/

:popcorn; :wine;
I caught it before it was "unavailable." Oh my is all I have to say.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Epoman on January 11, 2007, 08:53:14 PM: Quote from: vandie on January 11, 2007, 08:32:09 PM
Quote from: glitter on January 11, 2007, 08:03:30 PM
http://www.geocities.com/narcism_central/

:popcorn; :wine;
I caught it before it was "unavailable." Oh my is all I have to say.

Yes, I wasn't going to mention it but since you did ;) Her site reminded me of how websites looked back in the early 90's "A bunch of crap thrown together" I am not saying I am any better than her, but I don't go around callng myself a "HTML Jedi" ::) like she does.

- Epoman
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Jill D. on January 12, 2007, 10:31:09 AM: Quote from: glitter on January 11, 2007, 08:03:30 PM
http://www.geocities.com/narcism_central/

:popcorn; :wine;

I checked it out, and since I don't want to say anything mean or rude, I will just do this....
:urcrazy; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: meadowlandsnj on January 12, 2007, 02:10:40 PM: Quote from: Epoman on January 10, 2007, 03:55:24 PM

Sorry to my members, if you are thinking to yourself "oh shit, Epoman is freaking out again" sorry but I take comments like this very personal and I just wanted to clear up some issues, and you know me I speak my mind and let it off my chest as I encourage you all to do. The night I chatted to that member in the chat room about her questioning my integrity, I didn't sleep wondering what else everyone thinks of me.

Epoman
I felt so bad reading this because I know how you give your heart and soul to this website. The people who know you, your friends here have no questions about you or your integrity. Don't let ignorant people get under your skin. Geez, I really feel bad that this a-hole affected you like this. :-\
I'm giving you a big hug :cuddle;
Donna
Title: Re: I am the one with the nerve to ask questions
Post by: sandman on January 13, 2007, 01:54:28 PM: Quote from: Epoman on January 11, 2007, 12:00:42 AM
Did you even know anyone can be a webhost? I mean LITERALLY anyone can be a webhost EVEN from their home computer. But the "guy in his home" vs. "a professional company" is what separates unreliable sites and reliable sites. Let me put it this way If you had a store, a real store would you want your stores electricity provided from some guy with a generator or would you want your store powered by the local power company?

So, you mentioned your own dozens of websites, do me a favor and show me some of your sites. List some here, lets see how popular YOUR sites are. Please show me what makes you a "HTML Jedi" as you call yourself, and please don't show me sites that you used a template or a CMS to create. Sorry but running a blog does not make you a webmaster.

- Epoman
Owner/Admin

Yeah, just take my site for example. www.killerz.dns2go.com (http://www.killerz.dns2go.com/index.html) I host it from my spare home computer using a 8mb / 768kb home dsl service. I am not calling myself a "webmaster" but I know enough to create and maintain my own site with minimal effort. I may not have a garenteed 100% up time but I do pretty darn well considering that I host from home and it costs me nothing more then what I pay for in electricity and the broadband connection.

Epoman does have a good point. A good, successful site can not be hosted soley for free. Even I had to rent a high bandwidth host for content reasons. I may get more bandwidth and more hdd space then epoman does and for far less money but I don't rent a dedicated server like he does so I do face some aggravation that he does not.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: angieskidney on January 13, 2007, 02:11:06 PM: Ya or even anyone paying for the internet, a lot of providers give you a free space. I have one through my provider but when it comes to sites as huge as Epoman's IHD (and the rest) they would definately not be enough. I can understand the reasoning behind her post saying she feels Epoman is riding on the "give me money for the site" boat but in all honesty her site can't compare to IHD and Epoman does have every right to make a little money when he is spending nearly a grand! Epoman has invested so much time in his site to make it as it is. You can't get that from a free site.

Take Bravehost as mentioned earlier. That is a good offer but if you read the details there are a lot of limitations. For me I would hate the no-frames allowed limit as you can see my gaming site (http://kabo0m.2hell.com/) I have (not that popular) uses frames. Also php and sql! Also how bravenet said they give 5 domain names. That is misconceiving. They use a Bravehost subdomain (ex: yourname.bravehost.com) or you can register (pay) for a domain name. They only will HOST them for free..

Epoman paying for his site lets him have total control to bring forth all the ideas he has in his head to make it better!
A free site can't really compare! :thumbup;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: Joe Paul on January 13, 2007, 02:33:46 PM: F :thumbdown; CK em ALL...this is the bestest place I found for people to understand whats up.

Fixed Thumbdown art - Rerun - Moderator
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: tubes on January 13, 2007, 06:16:09 PM: i dont know a thing about running a site like this or even a blog.
if epoman was making any sorta profit from this then...freaking fantastic. he truly deserves too. this site is the best place to come to if you want to be informed or need to rant or just want to meet people in the same boat as you that understand what you are feeling.
i hope one day to become a premium member, but i just blew my money on 3 more shirts. hehehe

you know what epoman....just sweep the rubbish right out the door.
no need raising your bp and blowing your fistula. :lol; get it...blowing a gaskit....blowing a fistula....ok bad joke.... ::) :lol;
anyways epoman....im truly grateful for the work you and the admins put into maintaining IHD
i look forward to making new friends, reading new posts and contributing to this site for a long time.

Thank You. :clap; :grouphug;
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: jedimaster on January 14, 2007, 12:03:34 AM: Even if you were making money of this site, you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work!!! :thumbup; :thumbup; :thumbup;
Also, please remind HTMJedi, that I AM the REAL Jedi, not only Jedi...JediMASTER....I even might trade mark my name... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: boxman55 on January 14, 2007, 07:18:11 AM: I need to get a life.I just read all the posts on this subject. First I would like to thank Epo for all your hard work I hope Baxter calls with a $500,000 ad for you. But, in the mean time could you but a game in the arcade, you know those guys that punch each other and one has his head pop up when tagged really good. Raina vs Epo (fight to the finish)
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: RichardMEL on January 14, 2007, 06:31:53 PM: I have another comment here and this is not about Rania :) but about Epo.

Seems to me for someone who has gone through so much as Epo has, many would likely prefer to stay in their shell with all the stuff they have to deal with, but Epo wants to do something positive for the community instead... and that, I think, is to be commended.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Epoman on January 16, 2007, 11:57:19 PM: Well I would like to thank all of you for all of your support and all the kind words from many of you. To those that mentioned they hope one day I do make money off this site, well I hope I do to, but only so I could pour it back into the site and make it EVEN better for all of you. I was really touched by some of your comments and to me that is just as good as money.

- Epoman
Owner/Admin
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: AlasdairUK on January 17, 2007, 02:07:58 AM: Just read all the posts on this subject and I would like to give a very big thank you to Epoman and all the mods/ admin.

This is an excellent free site where you do feel part of the family. Even if Epoman made some money from this site. I'm sure he would use it to make it better for us and with all the hours he puts in he deserves to. I know that is not why you created this site, but to offset the amount of time you put in it would be great if you did earn some money off it.

I remember just the other day Epoman was proud of having his 500th member, this just shows how quickly the site is growing. Epoman needs our support and we want to give it to him.

Best Regards to IHD family,

Alasdair.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: Fighter on January 17, 2007, 10:16:00 AM: I'm an IT consultant and I have helped to develop and maintain large government websites in Belgium and I can testify to the complexity and sheer cost that it entails. A team of colleagues of mine work full time on the maintenance of one of these, get paid full time and the manager drives a BMW.

I know a lot about hosting and maintaining websites and I am in awe of what Epoman has achieved with IHD.com and its siblings. Knowing HTML is just the tip of the iceberg. If you want to create a real interactive website and expect thousands of hits daily, it requires a great deal of resources, Internet smarts and, above all, a heavy dose of dedication, day-in, day-out. Also, to ensure the popularity of the site, the webmaster needs to have a 'vision' of what he wants his site to be like and how it will be managed. The day I found this site I immediately witnessed Epoman's perfectionism: Site Rules with good common sense policies, clearly divided thematic forums, Moderator review, and a constant effort to bring new and exciting features to keep everyone interested, and to make the site fun to use for everyone. And that, again, is just what we see as regular users. A lot more work happens behind the scenes.

On a more personal note, this site has made kidney disease more bareable for me. The warm and welcoming atmosphere that Epoman has promoted has made a difference in my life and his personality has drawn many other kind and generous people by his side, to either help him run the site or just to post regularly. Anyone who comes here often enough will consider them as friends (sorry, I mean family!).

So I just wanted to say Epoman, don't lose sleep over this kind of attack. If you do anything that is popular and acquires a certain amount of visibility, you are bound to get criticism, but this does not mean that this criticism is justified in any way. I think you should definitely be paid for coming up with the idea(s) of this great site and for your hard work and commitment that bring real added value to an entire community. And by paid I don't mean a once monthly restaurant with your family, even if it's a three-star joint. I mean a real living. I'm sorry I'm not yet a Premium Member, I can't afford it yet but I plan on becoming one in the future.

Thanks for everything.
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: letaek on January 17, 2007, 10:05:09 PM: Just ignore them. I am happy I found this site and once I get a job (soon I hope) I will definately become a premium member. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT
Post by: Fox_nc on January 21, 2007, 06:05:45 PM: OMG

:urcrazy; :urcrazy; :urcrazy; :urcrazy; :urcrazy;

yeah - that's all I have to say . . . .
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: okarol on March 17, 2010, 03:37:17 PM: This is such a long thread from 3 years ago, and while some things have changed, much remains the same. It gives you a good idea of what Epoman was like and how much IHD meant to him, and others. I am so proud of our admin team and thank each and every one of them for keeping all of Epoman's hard work on this site running smoothly. And we have a great deal of gratitude to the Premium Members who continue to support the site year after year!
:bow; :bow; :bow;
okarol/admin
Title: Re: Interesting PM I received....Let me set the record straight. Time for a RANT!
Post by: Jean on March 17, 2010, 04:03:21 PM: Thanks for bumping up this thread Karol. It is really interesting. I read every single one. He was indeed an amazing man. Wish I could have known him.