I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: plugger on September 03, 2009, 07:37:57 PM
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DialysisEthics has been contacted by a non-violent, dismissed patient in Texas who has been blackballed by the clinics in the patient's area. The patient is receiving dialysis on only an emergency basis, but it looks like we are rectifying that situation. I'm posting this because many people don't know one of the things we do - get help quickly due to our contacts in CMS, the dialysis companies, media, and the legal arena. It pains me think how many dismissed patients haven't known DialysisEthics helps with their situation, and what the consequences have been. So I feel I ought to get the word out that we still do this sort of thing.
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Please tell us more. Why was the patient black-balled? How can they deny services to a patient?
Do you have a link?
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Physicians have the right to refuse to treat any patient. No clinic can accept a patient without a doctor.
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what is the rest of the story
why was the patient dismissed
health or personality
please tell us more
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I'll check and see how much more I can say - I hope you all understand why I've got to be careful. We hit these situations hard, and we hit them fast when somebody's life is at stake.
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We are pretty ticked off at this one, our understanding was this sort of thing wasn't going to happen again.
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what is the rest of the story
why was the patient dismissed
health or personality
please tell us more
That would be the big thing. The rest of the story. Of the few people I have heard being dismissed they all did something more than once that caused them to be dismissed.
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I myself have dismissed patients, after much documentation about many incidents. I have also been called about patients who have been kicked out of their clinic for various reasons. They have (in my opinion) been justified to have been kicked out. These patients are always reviewed with the Dr. and staff. it is the right of the Dr. and the clinic to refuse a patient for behavior problems. I'm not talking about someone who is just irritating or non compliant. Something happened. Repeatedly. You also have to consider the bulk of your patients. If I have an entire clinic full of patients complaining about the actions of 1 patient, then that 1 patient will have to go. That 1 patient has already been moved to different shifts and days to give a break to the patients that are complaining about the bad patient. These decisions are not made lightly, but do sometimes have to be made.
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That would be the big thing. The rest of the story. Of the few people I have heard being dismissed they all did something more than once that caused them to be dismissed.
I've watched this for nine years and when it gets to the point Arlene is posting it on the internet, it is serious and I can't recall one of those ever being the patient's fault. But whatever the story is, you can bet your bottom dollar DaVita and the network are getting the clinic's side of the story.
I'll post about it when I can, but the latest will probably show up on the following thread:
http://www.dialysisethics.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5603
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That would be the big thing. The rest of the story. Of the few people I have heard being dismissed they all did something more than once that caused them to be dismissed.
I've watched this for nine years and when it gets to the point Arlene is posting it on the internet, it is serious and I can't recall one of those ever being the patient's fault. But whatever the story is, you can bet your bottom dollar DaVita and the network are getting the clinic's side of the story.
I'll post about it when I can, but the latest will probably show up on the following thread:
http://www.dialysisethics.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5603
I don't know hwo Arlene is, but I can tell you the ESRD network investigates these patients as well, very thouroughly. My clinic has had the ESRD network ask for patient statements, from ALL patients. The network always gets both sides, from where I've been anyway...
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Nursewratchet, you are now officially my hero.
(Since there are no further details available at this point, I can only speculate, so forgive me if I overstep any boundaries)
Some patients do NOT deserve dialysis.
And as a dialysis nurse of nearly 9 years, I've seen it all. At my clinic, years ago, we discharged a full-blown AIDS patient after he pulled his needles out mid-treatment, and tried to STAB ME WITH IT! Meanwhile, while waiting for the police to show up, he also attempted to injure other patients. At what point do we, as a people, say NO!???!!!
Should I be given a death sentence because this patient? Should my other patients be endangered because this crack-head is angry? NO.....
I'll say no more until further details are posted, but please realize that there are two sides to every story.
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Inara, all I have to say to your post is YIKES!!!! :o
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That would be the big thing. The rest of the story. Of the few people I have heard being dismissed they all did something more than once that caused them to be dismissed.
I've watched this for nine years and when it gets to the point Arlene is posting it on the internet, it is serious and I can't recall one of those ever being the patient's fault. But whatever the story is, you can bet your bottom dollar DaVita and the network are getting the clinic's side of the story.
I'll post about it when I can, but the latest will probably show up on the following thread:
http://www.dialysisethics.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5603
Hmm a post that mentions nothing to the facts. Hardly meets the burden of something serious happening.
Non violent means nothing. No unit needs to wait until violence occurs before throwing a patient out. A patient makes continued threats against staff or others, throw their ass out period!
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I myself have dismissed patients, after much documentation about many incidents. I have also been called about patients who have been kicked out of their clinic for various reasons. They have (in my opinion) been justified to have been kicked out.
Do tell us what offenses are enough to issue a death warrant, if my daughter ever has to go back to dialysis (God forbid) I would like her to know what to avoid. I do know the patient in Texas isn't holding staff hostage, but I will tell the daughter to avoid that one.
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YIKES indeed re the HIV+ patient. That IS scary, and worrying and....
We've had a few patients I *know* the staff would have loved to dismiss, but I am not sure you can down here - or at least I do not know what the rules are (I might have to ask if there's ever an appropriate time). I have seen security called a few times, but I've never seen anything like the above. Clearly it has to be serious... and certainly if other patients (and staff) are at risk you have to think about everyone involved. I imagine here if they had a troublesome patient like that they would stick them in an isolation room. I am not sure.
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I don't think anyone should be denined dialysis, but at our unit we are all adults, and people need to behave in a way that respects others. I don't know the whole story, and I am reserving judgment. However, I can imagine situations where a non-violent patient could make dialysis misarable for everyone else at the unit. What should the staff do in that case? It's a difficult situation
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OK I asked one of the managers at my unit yesterday about this.
She told me that here in Australia the public health care system *nobody* can be dismissed because patient care is required for everyone - no matter what. She went on to tell me that apparently there's a patient in Alice Springs (middle of the country) who is so aggressive/violent that the hospital has to send a security guard to pick him up, *sit with him* through treatment, and take him home... yep, 3 times a week....
Private units though can dismiss patients. She works at one sometimes and she says they have kicked some out for various reasons (but didn't go into detail).
I thought that was interesting given this thread/conversation.
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I think it's the same here. They have prisoners who come in with security guards for the whole time too.
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Sometimes I feel like a prisoner locked to the chair. I just don't need any security guards. Think I'll get time off for good behavior?
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I myself have dismissed patients, after much documentation about many incidents. I have also been called about patients who have been kicked out of their clinic for various reasons. They have (in my opinion) been justified to have been kicked out.
Do tell us what offenses are enough to issue a death warrant, if my daughter ever has to go back to dialysis (God forbid) I would like her to know what to avoid. I do know the patient in Texas isn't holding staff hostage, but I will tell the daughter to avoid that one.
Since you are asking, here goes: Try not to expose yourself and masturbate in the open, while in the clinic. REPEATEDLY... Try not to make LOUD, and FIlTHY comments to both staff and patients. Probably not a good idea to cuss at the top of your lungs, or throw food at people, whether staff or patients. Don't repeatedly pull out your needles. Don't have a BM in your pants, every treatment, either because you don't want to get up to go, or won't ask to go, and then refuse to be cleaned up or get yourself cleaned up. The smell is overwhelming, and by the time you leave, the chair is almost impossible to clean. EVERY treatment, for a person who walks unassissted. REALLY??? Avoid any of these behaviors and you should be good to stay in the clinic of your choice. And remember, all of these behaviors have occurred in my clinics, resulting in being kicked out, and NONE of them were violent.
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Do tell us what offenses are enough to issue a death warrant, if my daughter ever has to go back to dialysis (God forbid) I would like her to know what to avoid. I do know the patient in Texas isn't holding staff hostage, but I will tell the daughter to avoid that one.
Since you are asking, here goes: Try not to expose yourself and masturbate in the open, while in the clinic. REPEATEDLY... Try not to make LOUD, and FIlTHY comments to both staff and patients. Probably not a good idea to cuss at the top of your lungs, or throw food at people, whether staff or patients. Don't repeatedly pull out your needles. Don't have a BM in your pants, every treatment, either because you don't want to get up to go, or won't ask to go, and then refuse to be cleaned up or get yourself cleaned up. The smell is overwhelming, and by the time you leave, the chair is almost impossible to clean. EVERY treatment, for a person who walks unassissted. REALLY??? Avoid any of these behaviors and you should be good to stay in the clinic of your choice. And remember, all of these behaviors have occurred in my clinics, resulting in being kicked out, and NONE of them were violent.
:clap; :yahoo; :2thumbsup; :clap; :2thumbsup; :thumbup;
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I could go on and on. The behaviors I listed were the ones not to graphic to discuss.
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I could go on and on. The behaviors I listed were the ones not to graphic to discuss.
i always wonder if people who behave like you described need mental help.
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Some do, and some probably just don't know how to behave in public, or may do it because they are so angry at whatever. Either way, they can't do it in public...
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I would have to wonder why you would be worried about your daughter. At a young age you shouldn't have a big problem unless she is an out of control brat.
I'm all for using duct tape on patients though to shut them up so others can rest :2thumbsup; (This was done in court that was on the news :rofl; Defendant deserved it :2thumbsup;)
I'm with Nurseratchet, I would have kicked/dismissed those patient's too! ooohhh Boy, that strench I can't stand! Bleach smell would be my friend on that day, just not on any other dialysis day.
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I know patients at my clinic get dismissed if they repeatedly refuse to show up for their treatments.
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Try not to expose yourself and masturbate in the open, while in the clinic.
AMEN!! I've dealt with many of these patients, both men and women. And, for the record, trying to do it on the sly doesn't usually work...it's pretty obvious what's going on.....I refer to it as "the spank-it blanket maneuver".
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What I read is appalling! I cannot even imagine, nor do I want to, what the things people have done that you cannot post here. I am sitting here shaking my head.
MANY of these patients??? Am I in the wrong center? What about HD is in the least bit arousing? :urcrazy;
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It sounds like we need to start an equivalent of the mile high club! Any takers. Hmmm, might be a bit difficult in a chair. What about in the snug Kickstart? That might be possible.
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I'm just glad it didn't happen in my presense if it did happen at my clinic. But if I go back, I'm bringing one of those rolls of tissue paper from the docs office to line my chair. Something you just wish you never read about on what happens.
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A reminder of some of the difficult things nursing/medical staff (of any sort, not just dialysis related) have to deal with - obviously the vast majority of patients are compliant, or at least not too annoying and work within the acceptable rules of society and the unit.. and others... don't, can't, or are not willing to. That is very sad for a number of reasons and I, too, hate to think about what might be going on in some units that can't be posted. yikes!
As for masturbating in the unit.. umm.. ewww. I haven't seen that (or indulged for the record!!!) and hope I never do. but the whole BM thing.. oh my... I've seen a few "accidents" but nothing like what was described.
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Thankfully I have not had to experience any of these things at my clinic! Maybe because I am the only one during my session who doesn't need to be wheeled in on a stretcher and lowered in to my chair. Almost every single patient is rather immobile for some reason.
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Since you are asking, here goes: Try not to expose yourself and masturbate in the open, while in the clinic. REPEATEDLY... Try not to make LOUD, and FIlTHY comments to both staff and patients. Probably not a good idea to cuss at the top of your lungs, or throw food at people, whether staff or patients. Don't repeatedly pull out your needles. Don't have a BM in your pants, every treatment, either because you don't want to get up to go, or won't ask to go, and then refuse to be cleaned up or get yourself cleaned up. The smell is overwhelming, and by the time you leave, the chair is almost impossible to clean. EVERY treatment, for a person who walks unassissted. REALLY??? Avoid any of these behaviors and you should be good to stay in the clinic of your choice. And remember, all of these behaviors have occurred in my clinics, resulting in being kicked out, and NONE of them were violent.
Well I will say you do have the icky factor going, however nothing you have described would bring a sentence of capital punishment to most US citizens - so why are dialysis patients different? If punishment or counseling is in order, shouldn't it be the same punishment or counseling they would receive if the offense was done elsewhere? We don't deny life-sustaining requirements to the worst of offenders - food or water - but it is ok to do it to someone on dialysis who got icky?
It does look like you did address the one extreme end of the spectrum of people who get dismissed. How about the other end? My recollection is people have been dismissed for wearing sunglasses in the clinic (overhead lights were bothersome), complaining about poor care from inexperienced inept staff, questioning care, etc...
Just in my short experience with my daughter there is no doubt if the roles were reversed I would have been booted. She was the very compliant patient and I was the one the charge nurse seemed to have problems with. I was insistent on getting her off reuse and questioning their way of figuring dry weight - heard about these critline devices. I got dragged in once during a workday because the nurse didn't like me "challenging" her after finding studies on reuse and asking how many times they were doing reuse on my kid. Then I got told by the nurse if I didn't like the way they did things I could take my daughter to a tweedle-dum clinic 30 miles away. Then I heard I was getting blamed for things I didn't even do! Yes, I was the Great Satan there for awhile. I was lucky I had DialysisEthics behind me and she got the transplant soon.
Anyway, back to business.
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Great news! The patient in Texas has been assigned to a clinic and will be receiving dialysis on a regular basis. When I talked to the patient on the phone, I was told the patient was accused of clamping a line and causing air to back up into the machine - patient talked to manufacturer and manufacturer said that couldn't happen. Also the doctor expressed dismay that the patient wasn't reaching dry weight - patient says this was due to weight gain. We can be happy a tragedy has been avoided.
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Anyone who masturbates incessantly or does number 2's in the chair is obviously mentally challenged and should be treated as such. I'm presuming in these cases there would be ongoing help for these poor souls? It reassures me that I could never be a nurse though!
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Movie quote fits on patients who become bothersome to others, especially the ick factor and abusive - "Needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few" , which fits into the business part of dialysis clinics. After all they are a business who provide a service for profit. Let one person disturb compliant patients who may go off and transfer to another clinic and loose lots of money, or deal with the problem causer and loose less money. The clinic should at least try to find the patient another clinic in the ethical stand point of view, but if no one wants to take that patient and the patient does not show any willingness to change, then it's up to them to find another center. Of course this is regarding patients with normal mental capacity
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Anyone who masturbates incessantly or does number 2's in the chair is obviously mentally challenged and should be treated as such. I'm presuming in these cases there would be ongoing help for these poor souls? It reassures me that I could never be a nurse though!
But there are people who do in in spite too, but a doc can determine that through proper examination by a psych visit.
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Great news! The patient in Texas has been assigned to a clinic and will be receiving dialysis on a regular basis. When I talked to the patient on the phone, I was told the patient was accused of clamping a line and causing air to back up into the machine - patient talked to manufacturer and manufacturer said that couldn't happen. Also the doctor expressed dismay that the patient wasn't reaching dry weight - patient says this was due to weight gain. We can be happy a tragedy has been avoided.
That's good to hear. Unfortunately it sounds like it's the clinic staff who are the problem makers though and they could use some training in professionalism.
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That's good to hear. Unfortunately it sounds like it's the clinic staff who are the problem makers though and they could use some training in professionalism.
Not sure how you get that since there is no proof whatsoever that is happening. In fact we only hear part of a story from one side on this whole event. And that part of what the patient claims sounds mighty fishy.
Seems there is far more to this.
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Since you are asking, here goes: Try not to expose yourself and masturbate in the open, while in the clinic. REPEATEDLY... Try not to make LOUD, and FIlTHY comments to both staff and patients. Probably not a good idea to cuss at the top of your lungs, or throw food at people, whether staff or patients. Don't repeatedly pull out your needles. Don't have a BM in your pants, every treatment, either because you don't want to get up to go, or won't ask to go, and then refuse to be cleaned up or get yourself cleaned up. The smell is overwhelming, and by the time you leave, the chair is almost impossible to clean. EVERY treatment, for a person who walks unassissted. REALLY??? Avoid any of these behaviors and you should be good to stay in the clinic of your choice. And remember, all of these behaviors have occurred in my clinics, resulting in being kicked out, and NONE of them were violent.
Well I will say you do have the icky factor going, however nothing you have described would bring a sentence of capital punishment to most US citizens - so why are dialysis patients different? If punishment or counseling is in order, shouldn't it be the same punishment or counseling they would receive if the offense was done elsewhere? We don't deny life-sustaining requirements to the worst of offenders - food or water - but it is ok to do it to someone on dialysis who got icky?
It does look like you did address the one extreme end of the spectrum of people who get dismissed. How about the other end? My recollection is people have been dismissed for wearing sunglasses in the clinic (overhead lights were bothersome), complaining about poor care from inexperienced inept staff, questioning care, etc...
Just in my short experience with my daughter there is no doubt if the roles were reversed I would have been booted. She was the very compliant patient and I was the one the charge nurse seemed to have problems with. I was insistent on getting her off reuse and questioning their way of figuring dry weight - heard about these critline devices. I got dragged in once during a workday because the nurse didn't like me "challenging" her after finding studies on reuse and asking how many times they were doing reuse on my kid. Then I got told by the nurse if I didn't like the way they did things I could take my daughter to a tweedle-dum clinic 30 miles away. Then I heard I was getting blamed for things I didn't even do! Yes, I was the Great Satan there for awhile. I was lucky I had DialysisEthics behind me and she got the transplant soon.
Anyway, back to business.
Nobody is denying access to life saving treatments. They can get it a hospital if they have to. If a child is repeatedly disruptive in school, they are not denied an education, merely sent to an alternative school. Life saving treatment is NEVER denied, but you don't have to subject an entire clinic of staff and patients to unacceptable behaviors. Like Big Sky said, two side to all of this.
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Well I will say you do have the icky factor going, however nothing you have described would bring a sentence of capital punishment to most US citizens - so why are dialysis patients different? If punishment or counseling is in order, shouldn't it be the same punishment or counseling they would receive if the offense was done elsewhere? We don't deny life-sustaining requirements to the worst of offenders - food or water - but it is ok to do it to someone on dialysis who got icky?
You make it sound as if no one on dialysis in an out-patient setting should be dismissed for any reason. There ARE reasons, and it is never taken lightly.
We dismissed a male patient today for repeatedly saying filthy, horrific things to the female staff and patients. This man is a convicted child molester and has been jailed for rape. He also got a kick out of throwing feces at people. We sent him to get psych help....refused to go. So, would you really want this man sitting next to your daughter 3 days a week telling her what he'd like to do to her? Really?
He has 30 days to find another clinic, but he's been blackballed by all local clinics....with good reason. We had to hire 2 security guards to sit with him until the 30 days pass. His treatment will be stopped immediately if he has anymore inappropriate behavior in that time. I'm sure he'll end up having to go to the hospital for his treatments. But, he will receive treatment.
I understand that there are two sides to every issue. No one should be denied treatment just because they wear sunglasses or are just plain annoying. I applaud your Dialysis Ethics group for protecting those who deserve it. But some people just don't belong in a group setting.
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Exactly! No one is denied treatment, just moved. The job of the staff of a clinic is to provide SAFE and TOLERABLE treatements to all patients in the clinic. If it is not safe and tolerable for ALL pateients because of ONE patient, then they will have to have their life saving treatment somewhere else. That is not "denying treatment", merely providing it somewhere else.
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I personally know NurseWratchet and I've visited her at her clinic and she runs a tight ship! :thumbup; God forbid, if I lose my new kidney and have to start dialysis I'm calling her FIRST! :clap;
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In the UK bad patients like the ones identified by Nursewratchet risk being assessed for the "Liverpool Care Pathway".
There's some current controversy because once patients are on this pathway, it's difficult for them to come off (other than the final exit). ;)
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In the UK bad patients like the ones identified by Nursewratchet risk being assessed for the "Liverpool Care Pathway".
There's some current controversy because once patients are on this pathway, it's difficult for them to come off (other than the final exit). ;)
Is this a mental health institution? Or commonly known as the looney bin.
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Exactly! No one is denied treatment, just moved.
When a patient is dismissed and blackballed, their only option is emergency dialysis at the hospital when their labs have reached a critical stage from what I understand - a slow death, they might last two months tops.
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When a patient is dismissed and blackballed, their only option is emergency dialysis at the hospital when their labs have reached a critical stage from what I understand - a slow death, they might last two months tops.
And?
Like I said, some patients don't belong in a group setting. I still await your response to my post....would you or would you not tolerate a convicted sex offender spewing vivid details of what he'd like to do to your child three days a week? I know I wouldn't stand for it EVER.
edited for a spelling error
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That would be a no brainer for me and I don't have a kid, but thinking of myself. I don't want to be hearing that either.
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Dialysis is performed either at a clinic level, hospital level, home setting, or hospital and prison. All options depending on the patient, both physically, emotionally, or behavior. These are all OPTIONS, not denials, ever. Like Chris said, pick how close you want your daughter sitting to the pervert, the smelly guy who throws feces, or better yet, the patient who grabs the crotch of ANYONE who is near. IF it is OK for you to have her sit next to this patient, she would have to find a clinic besides mine, because I don't tolerate that in my clinics.
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Like I said, some patients don't belong in a group setting. I still await your response to my post....would you or would you not tolerate a convicted sex offender spewing vivid details of what he'd like to do to your child three days a week? I know I wouldn't stand for it EVER.
edited for a spelling error
Guess I didn't answer the post because I think the answer is pretty obvious don't you think? I feel safe knowing there are people out there like nursewratchet who would put offenders in isolation and would keep offenders from parents who would want to put the hurt on such individuals.
So much for distracting with fear and panic.
I'm a fellow who likes to play the odds. The odds are telling me the daughter is more likely to run into something like an inexperienced tech who might be intimidated by a questioning, educated patient. I know how tempers can escalate and a patient will usually wind up losing. Since my daughter grows more like me by the day, I worry she might wind up a getting tossed because she pushed and somebody might take offense - believe me, I've seen it. I haven't run into one of your child molesters though.
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Well i have just been reading and not responding to this thread.
I am lucky to be doing home dialysis. Cause let me tell you i dont wanna go to jail for battery.
If many of the things i heard nurse ratchet :waving; and Inara say happens in there clinic were to happen in the seat next to me. Aids blood flying feces flying, jerkin the gherkin talking to a female patient about what a person would do to there child ECT ECT. i would for sure wait for these people and i ques they would get treated for dialysis at there local emergency rooms at least for a few days.
Cause i would throw them a beatdown to send them there.
Less they were mentally challenged and knew no better.
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;D Must be something they are putting in their units' dialysate.
As I said the patient in Texas is safe and secure - and now getting a lawyer. We have decided in the interests of public safety to release the name of the doctor responsible on DialysisEthics, and we have found something already about the doctor that gives us concern:
http://www.dialysisethics.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5603
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Excellent work, plugger. Well done. :clap;
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::)
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Great news! The patient in Texas has been assigned to a clinic and will be receiving dialysis on a regular basis. When I talked to the patient on the phone, I was told the patient was accused of clamping a line and causing air to back up into the machine - patient talked to manufacturer and manufacturer said that couldn't happen. Also the doctor expressed dismay that the patient wasn't reaching dry weight - patient says this was due to weight gain. We can be happy a tragedy has been avoided.
You can't cause air to back up into the machine by clamping the line. The manufacturer is right. You can however, back air up into the dialyzer by clamping the line. That can kill you if not watched very closely.
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Eek..............what a horrible situation Nursewratchet described. When I start dialysis, I'm going to do the PD at home. I would never do the things Nursewrachet described in my own home, let alone in a public center!!
I was wondering if there were specific centers where people who are causing problems go to? Maybe the staff is prepared to handle patients like that. And if the centers were far from their homes, maybe they would think twice about acting up. This way you're not denying a patient of treatment. Is their decision to behave or go elsewhere.
I understand some of the problems could be mental health issues so you would think all the more they would have somewhere for the patients to go that has staff that is trained to work with patients like that. I'm not saying if someone is mentally ill, that gives them the right to do as they please but they do need help.
Now the guy with HIV is a totally different story and you're probably saying to yourself, misbehavior is misbehavior and who is the one to make the judgments what is and is not accepted. But no one should be subjected to his recklessness. HIV is a life or death issue.
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When one patient is in danger, chances are there are more.
http://www.dialysisethics2.org/
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Can't see what happened. What did the doctor do? How does the doctor fit in? I'm confused...
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Your not alone nursewratchet, I didn't see anything. Just don't ask for my comments on web design. I'll just say there is a lot of repetitive coding that is not needed there.
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Can't see what happened. What did the doctor do? How does the doctor fit in? I'm confused...
You arent the only one.
On this whole thing all I am seeing is a bunch of half assed innuendos and accusations without any evidence behind them.
If something happened the whole thing needs laid out and not a bunch of innuendo bs.
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Right!
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Fair enough for the ones that cannot behave like decent human beings , putting them in a room full of normal people with good manners is a problem. But dont forget i was Warned to be careful , because i asked if i could use the Snug because of my eyes. Now if patients cant be treated like that , why cant problematic nurses be removed ? I overheard one the other day talking to a patient and saying she wasnt bothered if she had a job or not in the unit and boy doesnt it come across !!. I really think dialysis nurses should be a different breed , more like the Mc Millan nurses (they deal with cancer patients only) because unlike a nurse on a normal ward , they are not going to see us get up and go home , fit ,well and cured!
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True. I have seen some dialysis nurse who have been in the job for years, and are wonderful... On the other hand, I'v seen some that after 1 month on the floor, should be told to leave. Dialysis is BY FAR the most difficult job I have ever had in nursing. It is one that many can't do, and do well. I've told some just flat out "this isn't going to work and you need to go".
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If something happened the whole thing needs laid out and not a bunch of innuendo bs.
Sorry, not what we do.
Let me tell you how this has evolved. Years ago we noticed a very strong bias in favor of the clinic in these situations, we have countered it with a very strong patient bias (a bias that has been more often proven right in the end).
We don't get the clinic's or the doctor's side of things - we leave that up to the dialysis company and the networks. We communicate back and forth with the company, CMS, and the networks. Many times it is more cordial than you might think, especially anymore - they might have concerns about our friends: lawyers, journalists. We haven't lost a patient in nine or ten years.
If you want the doctor's side of things, you can call him for all I care. We did post his name, must we do everything.
We also don't release more than what the patient is comfortable with, however it looks like the patient just got a whole lot more comfortable.
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The dismissed patient in Texas has decided to go public with her story:
In the "Patient Advocacy" section of our forum
http://www.dialysisethics2.org/forum/
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We don't get the clinic's or the doctor's side of things - we leave that up to the dialysis company and the networks. We communicate back and forth with the company, CMS, and the networks. Many times it is more cordial than you might think, especially anymore - they might have concerns about our friends: lawyers, journalists. We haven't lost a patient in nine or ten years.
If you want the doctor's side of things, you can call him for all I care. We did post his name, must we do everything.
So in other words you only go with half the story and do no even try to find out the whole thing before throwing out innuendos.
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In other words, we play the odds. And we don't put it up on the board if we aren't sure of our ground.
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I envy patients in the USA who have a chance to complain
when they have been abused/mistreated by doctors and/or medical staff.
I envy them for the chance to be sorted out because
that gives them a chance to survive and get on with their life.
I envy "dismissed patients" in the USA
for an opportunity & chance to contact
an organization like"dialysisethics" to find support and help.
At least that gives them a chance to survive.
I wish we had an organization like that in England.
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I guess with any system if you put people in it, there are going to be problems.
Actually we do have a similar system to England's right here in the US: the VA. I was just there yesterday, as soon as I got into the lobby I was given a free flu shot. Then I went upstairs to see one of the VA's top cardiologist for a checkup, I'm in an experimental drug program (some would say that explains a lot!). I'm having a hard time seeing a downside to government care.